Bill Plaschke, Adrian Beltre and Paul DePodesta
In Bill Plaschke’s LA Times column this morning, he offers one portrayal of what caused Adrian Beltre to leave the Dodgers and sign with the Mariners.
The portrait Plaschke paints is of an incompetent and dysfunctional organization, one that told Beltre he was their top priority, then disappeared from negotiations almost entirely. According to the veteran columnist, Beltre never wanted to leave L.A., would have taken less money to stay, and even nearly cried when talking about leaving.
Here’s the thing about this portrait: Plaschke has demonstrated multiple times that he has an axe to grind regarding Paul DePodesta. An old school guy, he previously described DePodesta in terms usually reserved for Lewis and Gilbert from Revenge of the Nerds. Even in this piece, he sneaks in this shot: “In the new Dodger lingo, Beltre apparently did not compute.” Get it?
Reading with this in mind, it’s easy to see that Plaschke’s distate for DePo shaped his viewpoint here. But there seem to be too many other details — many of them direct quotations from Beltre — to dismiss the larger point about organizational communication entirely. Sadly for Dodger fans, DePo has also had an offseason that gives his critics ammunition.
If I had to slap a percentage on it, I’d say this reads like 70 percent anti-DePo propaganda, 30 percent legitimate criticism. What’s your take?
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69 Responses to “Bill Plaschke, Adrian Beltre and Paul DePodesta”
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I disagree. Although he gets in a couple of digs at DePodesta, the majority of the column is direct quotes from Beltre and descriptions of the what the Dodgers did/did not do to resign him. If it makes DePodesta look bad, it’s because they apparently could have resigned Beltre if they had shown any serious interest at all.
Their loss, our gain.
I don’t know, would anyone put it past Scott Boras to screen information from his client so as to steer him towards a more lucrative deal?
I don’t like Boras, but I don’t think he would deceive his client. Anyway, didn’t the Tigers offer more money?
Plaschke doesn’t like that new DePodesta kid, for a lot of stupid reasons, but that didn’t so much come through in the Beltre column. The other article you linked to was almost junior-high in its peevishness, and most of it was just stupid; today’s Plaschke was more the typical “what could/should have been” type article, written by a guy who knows what got away.
The article claims the Tigers offered $90 million so I don’t think this was about Boras steering his client towards the team with the most money. Clearly the Dodgers were a day late and a dollar short in their negotiations. And while I think Plaschke has made his feelings about DePo abundantly clear in the past, in this article he lets Beltre do most of the talking. Reading this, I can’t help but feel bad for the guy. Well, at least as bad as you can feel for a guy who makes millions playing a game for a living.
Well, here’s the thing: I thought people who were sabermetrics-inclined were supposed to base their judgments on hard evidence rather than gut feelings. But what I see in this type of comment is a willingness to give DePo a ton of leeway, simply because he’s ‘one of us’ (whoever ‘us’ is). The Dodgers have had an awful off-season. Awful, relative to what they had to work with and who they had at the top. There’s just no way around it. Why is it so hard to admit this – especially for those of us who would have traded our mortal souls to have DePo guiding the good ship Mariner rather than Bavasi a year ago? I think the M’s have a chance to have a better record than the Dodgers this year, and if you’d told me that six months ago, I would’ve laughed.
Am I crazy?
20% Anti-DePo, but caused by 80% legitimate criticism. Of course, it all starts with the top, and the GM is NOT at the top. The owners/presidents/CEOs have to approve everything, every deal, and are ultimately responsible for every action made by the team. That’s why my beef has been much moreso with Lincoln than with Gillvasi.
While Plaschke rightfully deserved criticism for his thoughts on the hiring of DePo:
I’d say this article on Beltre is a lot more balanced and fair. I’m sure there’s a fair amount of rage that went into the pixelized perspective, but that’s not necessarily all directed to DePo. Nor should it be.
I actually am very empathetic towards Dodgers fans. In some ways, I feel like they’ve just gone through what M’s fans went through after losing A-Rod, combined with the off-season debacle that happened this time last year. I’m not so sure DePo is entirely innocent, but I don’t think it’s his fault entirely either. The organization appears to be flailing blindly like Luke Skywalker in his non-Force-using lightsaber training with Ben Kanobi on the Millenium Falcon. Only after Luke trusted Obi-wan and used the Force was he able to avoid being blasted in the butt by lasers.
The bottom line, it seems to me, is that DePodesta was very, very good at what he did within Billy Beane’s organization, but is not competent at this point to run an organization himself; he just doesn’t appear to have the administrative/management/communication skills to keep all the players working together and on the same page. He might develop those skills, or he might not–he might not get the chance–but it doesn’t look like working for Beane gave him the opportunity to develop them before jumping into his own GM job.
Except isn’t his assistant GM Kim Ng, also one of the people the USSM plugged for the M’s GM?
Meanwhile, I think this sentence says about all that needs to be said about Bill Plascke, from an article quoted in Gleeman’s blog linked above:
“Last season, one study showed that Bonds reached base 1.1 times per plate appearance.”
Hee hee hee.
Even if Plashke isn’t a big DePo fan, it sure seems the Dodgers blew it. They sent mixed messages and then no message at all. When a guy doesn’t clean out his locker, that sends a pretty clear signal concerning where he wants to play next year. Not only did DePo lose Beltre, he overpaid for Drew. I used to want the M’s to replace Gillick with DePodesta, I’m glad they didn’t.
I don’t understand the criticism of DePodesta’s offseason. Granted that failing to sign Beltre looks like a mistake. What else is so bad?
I am not an ardent follower of the Dodgers, but, it looks like he essentially replaced Shawn Green, Steve Finley, Adrian Beltre, Jose Lima & Hideo Nomo with J.D. Drew, Jeff Kent, Jose Valentin & Derek Lowe.
Even if Drew has a tendency to miss games, he is still the best hitter on that list, and seems likely to be a better deal than either Sexson or Green over the life of his contract.
Finley is getting along, the Dodgers have a pretty good CF in Bradley, and, as I recall, there were some concerns on these pages expressed over depending on aging stars.
Beltre still looks like a mistake, but Valentin isn’t a bad choice for a standin. Kent also adds something to the offense, and I think Lowe is a good bet to pitch quite a bit better than last year…at least, better than Lima or Nomo.
Are DePodesta’s failures real, or more of a reflection of some reporting biases? Anyone?
The Tigers didn’t offer $90 million. The M’s, when all was said and done, had the best offer on the table, and that’s what Beltre took. He didn’t sign here because we signed Richie Sexson or because Edgar Martinez was a Mariner; we offered the most money.
Plaschke is a hack, however, this time, Plaschke’s general point is correct, I think; had the Dodgers offered a similar contract to what the M’s came up with, Beltre would still be in LA. They decided they’d rather spend similar money on J.D. Drew, and to me, that’s just a bad decision on their part, and bad organizaitonal decisions get blamed on the GM. We’ve talked about Depo and the Dodgers offseason quite a bit on the blog during the offseason, and my opinion is still that DePo had a bad, bad offseason, probably the worst of any team trying to contend. Losing Beltre was a big part of that.
I certainly wouldn’t think he would do that. I don’t understand why people think Boras has some kind of control over his clients. He’s very good at what he does, which is get top dollar for his client. Players hire him so he can do his job, and he does it well. If you have a problem with Boras representing your favorite player, your beef should be with the player, not Boras. He works for the player, not the other way around.
“Last season, one study showed that Bonds reached base 1.1 times per plate appearance.”
Never have I read a more damning sentence.
Having lived in LA and suffered through 10 years of Plaschke columns, I can tell you the guy doesn’t know his ass from his elbow (and neither does the Pulitzer committee when it comes to sportswriting). He beat the drum for weeks on Paul LoDuca, then said nothing when the Duke hit underhit Dave Ross in September.
If I had to bet, I think the Dodgers figured that Boras was just using the M’s as leverage, and they probably overvalued his commitment to the team, and to the advantages of playing in LA. The flipside to this, which nobody at the Times has pointed out yet, is that the Dodger showed incredible loyalty to Beltre for several years, hanging onto him when most people (including the Times) were crying for the “underachiever” to be traded. The Dodgers also paid for the two lousy years Beltre had after he chose to have a DR doctor do his appendectomy and got major infection. And their banking that Joel Guzman will make people forget Beltre in 1-2 years.
From Beltre’s previous comments, it also looks like he was wigged out by the Dodgers not offering Finley arbitration and the Kent signing (when people suddenly starting mentioning that Kent ccould conceivably play 3rd).
95% Propoganda, 5% legit stuff.
What propaganda? The quotes from Beltre?
He didn’t want to leave and all you sabr fanboys want to make excuses for your hero. Depo had a superstar, on the verge of greatness, and he messed it up. He should have pampered him, explained the plan, and signed him.
Oh well. Depo’s spreadsheet said it wasn’t in the plan to communicate with Beltre.
Our gain.
I think the appendectomy happened in the Dominican Republic because it was emergency surgery, not because Beltre consciously chose to have it done there.
Professional ethics, if not Boras’ own ethics, would dicate that he NOT withold information from a client.
Nevertheless, the Dodgers will be very good next season.
What does Plaschke’s writing proficiency have to do with anything? He got an interview with Beltre and he found out why he left. That to his CREDIT.
Is he a sabr-friendly writer? No. Does that mean he knows nothing about the game? No. Keep letting your spreadsheets do your thinking for you and we wouldn’t have signed Sexson.
Now the problem for the M’s is how to treat a superstar. The evidence is right there in the article that Beltre will cry and whine and need pampering. Recall Griffey? Beltre might be worse. Let’s hope Bavasi and Hargrove send luxury limos to bring him to the games or whatever it is that malcontented superstars need.
The first lesson in the business school I attended said pay your superstars what they are worth. Second, treat them like superstars; pamper them if necessary but pay them beyond what they are worth because THEY MAKE MONEY FOR YOU.
Cashman has learned this lesson as evidenced by the seeming good relations between Jeter and Arod.
Depo is still learning it (or maybe he forgot it because I think he has an MBA). He couldn’t communicate with his superstar – a little thing but big to Beltre.
Now what will happen with Kent and Bradley? Hmmm. Multiply Bonds-Kent times 10.
What does Plaschke’s writing proficiency have to do with anything? He got an interview with Beltre and he found out why he left. That to his CREDIT.
When a writer has established a clear negative opinion on a person, and than writes a negative column about that person, you have to take the column with a grain of salt.
Is he a sabr-friendly writer? No. Does that mean he knows nothing about the game? No. Keep letting your spreadsheets do your thinking for you and we wouldn’t have signed Sexson.
First off, lose the attitude, okay? Secondly, I think most of us would have been thrilled if we hadn’t signed Sexson.
The evidence is right there in the article that Beltre will cry and whine and need pampering.
No, its not. You’re reading way too much into this article. You know far too little about Adrian Beltre as a person to make these claims.
Dave,
I only know what I read. Beltre said something and I read it. If you know more please lay it out.
His comments are evidence of his relationship with management. He was upset, right? He wanted communication and he left. I put 2 and 2 together.
Your spreadsheet won’t tell you how to manage people. Speaking of which Bavasi, by having watched and learned from his Dad, may have this skill. He might not understand a spreadsheet like you do Dave but I would bet on him over a spreadsheet boy to have the skills to manage egos. Something Depo apparently does not have yet.
Paul,
Seriously, stop referring to people as spreadsheet boys, okay? There’s just no need for it.
And not everything I know is for public consumption. Sorry.
The grain of salt comment is a good point. I overlooked Plaschke’s animus with Depo because he isn’t fair. However, the larger point is what Beltre said. We have to assume what Beltre said is true.
Then, as we all like to play fantasy GM, what Beltre said is evidence that we can use to manage our fantasy team – that being the Mariners. Will Beltre fit in the clubhouse? Will he get along with Hargrove? Will he make life difficult in the last year of his contract? Will he moan in the papers should the M’s suffer 2 straight losing seasons? Is public moaning a bad thing?
These aren’t questions you can answer with Excel’s formula wizard.
Ok, I will refrain.
Then do I take your knowledge with a grain of salt? Since you aren’t forthcoming can you answer these yes or no questions?
Is Beltre a nice person?
Do you have evidence that Beltre will be a positive in the clubhouse?
Do you have any evidence about his maturity?
Is he more mature than a typical 25-year old superstar?
Are your sources reliable?
Have you talked with him?
Or, if you prefer, you lay out the case that we should discount his comments made to Plaschke so that we can be assured that he won’t be a threat to harmony on the team.
#21-I don’t think the M’s will have to give Beltre any special treatment aside from the kind of respect that a franchise type player deserves. Where in the article gives you the impression, that he is a high maintanance guy that needs a stretch limo? He wanted to feel wanted by the team that he’s been with his entire career, is there anything wrong with wanting to feel wanted? If I felt wanted at my job, I probably wouldn’t spend half the day on UssMariner
In the words of Bill James:
“In the wake of Moneyball, some people have tried to set up a tension in the working baseball community between people who see the game through statistics and scouts. There is no natural tension there. There’s only tension there if you think that you understand everything. If you understand that you’re not really seeing the whole game through the numbers or you’re not seeing the whole thing described through your eyes, there is no real basis for tension and there’s no reason for scouts not to be able to talk and agree on things.”
Also, my spreadsheet’s breath smells like spreadsheet food.
He left a winning team for mediocrity in the most competitive division in MLB, Spiegs. He made his life more difficult. For $3Million or whatever he wasn’t being rational. I call that evidence of immaturity.
Is Beltre a nice person?
That’s a matter of opinion, really. I think I’m a fairly nice person; there are a ton of people who think I’m an arrogant prick. Eye of the beholder.
Do you have evidence that Beltre will be a positive in the clubhouse?
This is nearly an impossible thing to prove. There are outliers like Milton Bradley or AJ Pierzynski who are almost universally hated, but most of the guys in major league baseball aren’t extreme personalities of that sort. It’s nearly impossible to predict ahead of time who will have good chemistry with who. Analysis of chemistry is almost always retrospective.
Do you have any evidence about his maturity?
By all accounts, he’s a terrific father. He values his family above the game. That, to me, is a huge sign of maturity.
Is he more mature than a typical 25-year old superstar?
Who knows.
Are your sources reliable?
I certainly think so.
Have you talked with him?
No, I’ve never spoken to Adrian Beltre.
But I’m not the one making assertions about Beltre’s character. When you call someone a whiner, the burden of proof is not on others to prove that he’s not.
I meant to say that he whined. I use evidence. He’s a good father. That’s evidence that Bavasi should have too.
I don’t have sources. You have sources.
I haven’t talked with him. Neither have you.
That’s okay as long as we use all the evidence. I hope Bavasi uses all the evidence too.
Can I prove anything? Of course not. But as a fan of the M’s, I don’t have to turn a blind eye to evidence I don’t like.
I happen to think chemistry comes from winning and I think the M’s will win, likely ought 6, but still I’m not going to say everything is hunky dory and that Plaschke’s is serving up propaganda when Beltre is quoted.
Beltre should be the focus of the article not Plaschke.
I don’t know if you can sign a contract worth $65 million and make your life whole lot more difficult Paul Mocker. While the M’s were a disaster last year, I don’t think that’s true any more, call me crazy but I think they will not only be better than mediocre but I think they will win more games than the Dodgers.
i don’t think we`will win more games than the Dodgers but I’m not in the prediction business.
Beltre was a great signing. If he has a desire to win then we will be okay in spite of the great teams down south.
I could see him going Eddie Murray standing there with his arms crossed and walking to first on ground balls if we aren’t winning in Year 3 of his contract.
These aren’t questions you can answer with Excel’s formula wizard.
These aren’t questions that sabremetrics is MEANT to answer- since a lot of what you are posing are entirely subjective, post-hoc questions (for instance, winning teams with good players are far more likely to have “good clubhouse” attached to them as a descriptive adjective explaining why they won than lousy teams- so there’s a chicken/egg question of whether the clubhouse environment is produced by the winning, or vice versa) that an analytical approach isn’t going to be useful for.
And for all the people bashing the Dodgers offseason moves- well, here’s an object lesson:
http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/proj2001.htm
http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/proj2002.htm
http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/proj2003.htm
(I used Diamond Mind because it illustrates a point quite nicely)
NONE of the World Champions in these years were projected as the most probable division champion or wild card teams. (Diamond Mind does a better job in 2004, admittedly, by projecting the Red Sox as the most likely wild card). These projections also keep predicting a collpase for Atlanta that never happens, and misses the M’s 2001 116 win season by a lot.
The object lesson is that at best, we’re seeing through a glass darkly here when we’re grading offseasons via sabremetric projections. Nobody I can recall of in the sabremetric community was very impressed with the 2002 Angels or 2003 Marlins in March or April.
Conversely, the 2003 and 2004 Phillies.
Those sim leagues are so unlike the real world it’s ludicrous.
That should say “CAN’T”. One could have recognized the typo by the tone of my posts.
Those sim leagues are so unlike the real world it’s ludicrous.
Variance due to luck can be up to 10 games per team per season, I once read (sound of writer rummaging in cabinet for source of quote).
That’s your “real world” variance right there.
According to The World Famous Grandpa Mariner Spring Training Reports™, Beltre is getting along with everyone, and has really shown some great leadership qualities, etc.
It doesn’t matter if Dave, you or I would get along with Beltre or find him agreeable however. It is a different world they are in. Ricky Henderson talks in the third person. I’d want to seriously harm him if I had to talk to him for more than three minutes, but I think it is awesome / hilarious as a baseball player.
Who cares if it doesn’t effect his relationship with the other players?
Paul – it is funny that you are mocking a group of people (Spreadsheet comments, etc.) for not having good social graces.
Well St. Ignatius, forgive and forget?
I apologize.
I will try to be more affectionate when I see groupthink and attacks on credibility of one subject without corresponding questions of motive of the other subject.
Or, hey, you could actually search the site. I mean, its not like criticisms of DePo are hard to find.
We’ve criticized a lot of what the Dodgers have done this offseason. I’ve repeatedly said that I think DePo had a terrible offseason. In this very thread, I defended Plaschke’s point and again said that DePo made a mistake in the Beltre negotiations. I’m not sure what you would consider non-group think. Do we have to burn Depodesta in effigy before you’ll be happy?
Then there’s the luck of not being allowed in the playoffs in spite of having the best regular season record of any team.
Or the luck of missing your best player for 3 seasons due to war service?
Or the luck of whiny tyrants managing your talented team below expectactions in 2003 and 2004?
Or the luck of competing against 3 Hall of Fame managers for the last 13 years?
Or the luck of selling the best player ever to your rival?
Or the luck of your 1st baseman colliding with your best pitcher?
None of these things can be programmed into a spreadsheet.
All that being said…
I hope the city falls in love with this guy. Give him the Mike Cameron treatment. One thing that even a gruff guy like Randy Johnson will admit is that the fans here can be great for a superstar. And hopefully, whatever lack of love Beltre felt in the Dodger org can be made up here.
Well, if luck falls my way, and I’m able to score tix for opening day this Saturday morning, then here’s one fan that will be yelling “M-V-P” every time Beltre is up to bat. I know a few other folks that already have tix. I’ll try and add them to the fold.
Beltre + Seattle = Perfect Fit!!!
Burning isn’t necessary. I am patient so I make conclusions only after 3 seasons of data (minimum).
To be clear, I’m only criticizing him of his handling of Beltre. If there are 3b prospects he was stopping and they make the team then Depo has a plan.
I’m not criticizing his entire management. He made the playoffs in 2001 and results do count.
Don’t lump me with those old schoolers who have already formed conclusions about Depo.
And how is saying 70% propaganda a defense of Plaschke.
You are a good writer. i can’ wait to buy your book. but we need to see through the “dark glass” (credit to Eponymous) when we judge our favorite team.
I’m the one who said 70 percent propaganda, not Dave.
I said it because I think Plaschke probably had his mind made up about what he was going to write before he even interviewed Beltre. It’s fairly easy to get quotes that fit a narrative you already have mapped out. I still think it’s a fair statement, but maybe I’m wrong.
In the post itself, I also said that DePodesta has had a bum offseason, giving ammunition to his critics. It’s fine to criticize DePo — or me, or anyone — on the basis of their actions. No one has made the case that Plaschke is wrong about the Dodgers’ failure to sign Beltre being a bad decision.
Groupthink? You’ll rarely find all five of us in concordance on a given issue. For instance, I was just arguing with Peter this morning about who the best New Kid on the Block was. He says Jordan, which is crazy talk.
The problem with perceiving groups of people (”sabermetric” analysts, USSM writers) as a stereotype, as I believe Plaschke does, is it prevents actual engagement with the ideas. It’s rare that one school of thought is 100 percent right or wrong. That’s why preconceived notions should be challenged and new tools explored.
My spreadsheet said to mention that.
i can’ wait to buy your book.
I’m writing a book? That’s news to me.
Paul,
You’re thinking of Maddox.
Even millionaire ballplayers want to feel wanted. Depo may be a great sabr guy but undersetimated that side of the equation. I’m not familar with the writers history to judge % propaganda. It seems mostly legit on the surface.
Yes, Dave. You’re writing a book, and it’s going to be spectacular. I’m your agent. We’re starting a book tour in November.
And Danny was the best New Kid.
“However, Dodger officials had not been around the team long enough to realize, this wasn’t a freak show, it was a maturity show.
This was the sort of player Beltre was supposed to be when they signed him when he was virtually a child. His was not just an individual triumph, but one for the entire organization.
He is no fluke, something at least three other teams with big money understood.”
Guys, if that’s not a steaming pile of propoganda I am a kettle of fish.
Basically, we don’t know if he is a fluke or not. Not until the season starts. So anything saying He wasn’t a fluke is BS at this point. DePo may look like a genius a month from now.
Mr. Mocker,
I have been trying to understand what your point is. It has been difficult. It seems that you want to complain or pick a fight because you are moving from point to point without really defending any point. Here is the list of items you have brought up in this thread:
You don’t like stats guys
Loosing Beltre was bad for the Dodgers and that make DePo a bad GM
Beltre is a pampered superstar
M’s should pamper Beltre
Beltre is immature for taking more money from a worse(?) team
You don’t like Beltre as a person
This site suffers from group think
Luck negates statistics
I’m not sure how you can form such a sweeping opinion of a man from one article. Any one of us would leave our current jobs if we felt unappreciated by our bosses and we had an offer for more money from another company. I don’t consider that a sign a immaturity. Also, this is the first time I have seen the situation from Beltre’s POV in the papers so I don’t see how you can consider him someone who would whine to the papers if things weren’t going his way.
As far as your dislike of the statistical community, I think you have a misunderstanding of what statistics are for. Statistics NEVER predict exactly what will happen. Statistics only give indications of what will happen in the future based on what happened in the past.
I agree that some folks who study statistics lack interpersonal skills but for you to assume that because someone is good at studying statistics they are terrible communicators is ignorant and arrogant.
It is not my wish to start a flame war with this post. I wrote this because your posts have had an angry tone, contain heavy doses of sarcasm, insults and personal attacks, and seem to move from point to point. It seems that you are angry at this blog, the authors, the commentors, stats guys, and/or the world and I was curious as to why.
shouldn’t we be talking about RF today? My suggestion is we put Ichiro! there and let him bat lead-off…
Bilbo-I like how you think, Ichiro playing right field and batting leadoff is an excellent idea.
Obviously, I’m in the minority here, but I like Bill Plaschke.
This Beltre column was just one of the many solid columns Plaschke has written over the years. I’ve read some of the criticism towards Plaschke throughout the blogosphere and I can understand why some folks have criticized him. Plaschke is one of those writers that you either love or you don’t care for.
April 4 can’t come soon enough.
I’ll tell you in late August about DePodestra’s decisions over the winter, but since his antagonist is a sportswriter who hasn’t proven himself not to be a useless, poison-infusing lamprey on the game…
I live in LA, read the Times every day (for better or for worse) and generally like Plaschke’s writing. One thing to note in all of this is the bi-polar sort of conciousness that seems to pervade LA sports. I thought the article was rather melodramatic–one of the common responses to issues down here. The other is an knee-jerk defensiveness and/or delusionial mania regarding their teams prowess. There’s not too often a level headed, thoughtful voice in commentary. This mindset seems to affect all fans here and at times, some sportswriters.
We can’t judge decisions retroactively, DJC. If DePo had a good reason for what he did, that won’t change based on Beltre’s subsequent performance.
Just as signing Sexson doesn’t become a good idea if he’s the MVP for 4 straight years, letting Beltre go doesn’t become a good idea just because Milton Bradley ran him down in the crosswalk.
It could be that DePo genuinely doesn’t think Beltre is worth what we’re paying him. If so, then letting him go was what he wanted. If not, then he really bungled the whole thing.
Re 57:
If you read the article, it says DePo thought he was a fluke. If he did and he’s right, this is propaganda.
My point is that Plaschke can’t say Beltre wasn’t a fluke without proving it. It’s too soon to tell, and him saying that Beltre wasn’t a fluke is like me trying to tell you exactly where I’ll be a month from now. He can’t do that.
Don’t lump me with those old schoolers who have already formed conclusions about Depo.
Funny thing, Mr Mocker: you sound more and more like one with every stupidly gratuitous reference to spreadsheets.
I don’t know what to make of these kinds of articles. On the one hand, you wonder why it’s necessary or important. The fact is that the Dodgers did not re-sign Beltre. Is it really important to find out whether it’s because the team didn’t think he could repeat his performance or whether it’s because the team didn’t communicate effectively? To the extent that it doesn’t change the outcome, you can see these kinds of articles as clear propoganda. The purpose it to show that a team’s management is doing a bad job, to show that they are incompetent.
On the other hand, I suppose this is what people have an interest in these days. No longer content to learn what happened, readers want to know *why* something happened so they know who to blame if things go wrong. To that extent, the purpose of the article is to inform, I guess.
I guess I just don’t see the smoking gun here. The Dodgers made an offer for less than the M’s did, Beltre took the best offer. Isn’t that the whole story? That’s a yawner. Or is the implication that if DePo had just picked up the phone and called Beltre, he would accepted $3MM/year less? How do we know this? Maybe the Dodgers just didn’t feel like he was worth what he was likely to get, so they didn’t spend a lot of time on him. The proof will be in the pudding, I suppose. If Beltre repeats 2004 year after year, you can say the Dodgers messed up and should have offered more money. If he doesn’t, you can say that DePo was right not to spend too much organizational capital on him.
Plaschke has been writing anti-Dodgers human interest stories for years. It’s what he’s always done, and it’s what he’ll always do. The Dodgers could win the next 9 World Series, and he’d still complain. He seems to have found his niche at the times; I guess that’s it.
Regardless, it’s difficult to discern whether this is even true. Let’s not forget who his agent is. Boras wouldn’t even let the Astros talk to Beltran, even though they desperately wanted to. It may have been the same thing in this instance. Of course, we can argue any side you want, but we’re merely speculating. I do have a hard time seeing DePo being willing to part with 55 million for Drew, but not 64 million for Beltre. If he had started his negotations with a $200 million dollar offer, that probably wouldn’t have been great business. Beltre ended up signing ridiculously early compared to the the other marquee free agents. I really don’t know what happened. I don’t think anybody does.
But one thing is for certain: Most Dodger fans hate Plaschke because of his negative Dodger attitude. It was around long before DePodesta went to the Ravine, and it will be around until he retires. Plaschke is about as credible as Jose Canseco.
And, of course, Plaschke is a moron. Ever watch him on Around the Horn? I think my IQ dropped about 40 points after I watched him debate something with Woody Paige.
Keep letting your spreadsheets do your thinking for you and we wouldn’t have signed Sexson.
Are we supposed to understand from this that this would have been a bad thing? If the Mariners had let Baltimore have Sexson, I would have been thrilled. I can almost read the comment threads to the post on USSM, ‘Sexson signs with Baltimore, 4 years, $44 mill, Mariners dodge a bullet’ in my head.
Plaschke has been writing anti-Dodgers human interest stories for years. It’s what he’s always done, and it’s what he’ll always do.
So in other words, he’s LA’s answer to Steve Kelley?
And, of course, Plaschke is a moron. Ever watch him on Around the Horn? I think my IQ dropped about 40 points after I watched him debate something with Woody Paige.
Speaking as a resident of Colorado and regular reader of the Denver papers, that has as much to do with Woody as it does with Plaschke.
A tad off topic, here, but it warms the cockles of my heart that so many regular communicants here on the good ship USS Mariner don’t even _live_ in the area. Denver, Bay Area, La-La Land, New England: the ol’ net does shorten up the horizon on things indeed.
As a Dodger fan I regret losing Beltre and enjoyed all his years in LA not just his MVP season(in a world without Bonds). You’ll enjoy him, just don’t get down on him when he starts slow. He’ll add some pizzaz to your team and will blend in nicely. I hope he ends up being a HOF for you but I wouldn’t count on it.
That said I’m not unhappy were not paying him 17 million this year.
I don’t understand the posters who claim that Depo had a terrible offseason. Let us see how the new team plays before making that judgement. Sure he overpaid for Lowe but for Mariner fans to say he had a terrible offseason based on overpaying for pitching when they signed a 1st baseman who just missed a complete season to an injury that could occur again at any time is a bit strange. Last season Depo built a complete OF without trading one regular. Werth for Frasor, Bradley for 2 prospects, Finley for 2 more prospects. Brad Penny decided to get a new pitching injury or that trade might have brought the Dodgers the NL Pennant. Sure Choi sucked but so did Mota and LaDuca in September. So when Depo is given some latitude it might be because he already has a nice track record. I’m sure Ryan Ketchner will have a better career then Jolbert Cabrerra. Or Antonio Perez will have a better career then Jason Romano. I totally expect the Dodgers to win the division this year and many more in the future because this team now has flexibility and a GM who will not be afraid to make a move when he see’s a weakness during the season and he has plenty of ammunition to trade. And as far as the Yankee debacle, at least he had the nuts to pull out of the deal when he knew it no longer was in the best interest of the team. He’s young and he’s going to make mistakes but I still like him. I do wish he’d improve his communication skills as they do seem to be lacking. I hope he’s not a Duquette who was very bright but not exactly seasoned with people skills.
Plaschke is the worse sports writer at the LA Times. Simers is just an Ass but Plaschke is just clueless about all sports.
I am reading there are alot of mariner fans in Los angeles area, i am in the l.a. area and looking fro fello M’s fans. I don’t know nay other M’s fan here and it would be nice to know some to share the M’s experience with here in so cal.
Let’s go watch them play the angels together and represent!
e-mail me if ur in L.A. or Orange county and a m’s fan
jmkenoyer@yahoo.com
p.s. i will be in seattle for the opening day game! oh yeah!
Beltre was a good signing, and i def. think he’d rather be a dodger, but what he doesn’t realize is he will fall in love with seattle and it’s fans really quickly.
Too late to post? I stumbled on this site searching on “Plaschke” and “Moneyball” trying to find out what Plaschke’s problem is.
I’m a Dodgers fan that doesn’t live in L.A. and read the times everyday. But I have a thought on the offseason.
It was disheartening, and I don’t think the offense is better. But Beltre, specifically, was a sad loss. Still, who knows what Boras said the minimum expectations were? And if Dodgers’ brass thought the Mariners were offering far more than they did, it might not be a surprise they didn’t get back to Boras ASAP.
But who knows? As sad as this situation seems, it’s tough to sign a guy to a six-year contract after an outlier season, even if it comes at age 25 and there are a lot of good years to come. But Plaschke is wrong when he said last year was the year the Dodgers were expecting from Beltre. No one ever expected 48 home runs from Beltre.
Even though J.D. Drew is often injured, I think there’s less risk he’ll deliver five $11 million years than Beltre will deliver five $13 million years.
I’d rather have the Dodgers’ offseason than the Tigers’, signing Ordonez for $75 million.
Hey, Beltre is doing pretty awesome. The Dodgers are in shambles! What a great blog.
Way to be there.