Steinbrenner blows
Oooooh, how I revel in their troubles (CNNSI, many other places).
It is unbelievable to me that the highest-paid team in baseball would start the season in such a deep funk. They are not playing like true Yankees. They have the talent to win and they are not winning. I expect Joe Torre, his complete coaching staff and the team to turn this around.
I love that Steinbrenner thinks that in situations like this he should issue statements.
As Mariner fans, we can only hope that Steinbrenner goes insane and decides to blow up his team, eating salary as he punts players to other teams. That slacker Posada? I’ll take him. That too-educated Mussina guy? Sure would look good in this unstable rotation (though I’m concerned… ah, that’s is another thing).
Comments
58 Responses to “Steinbrenner blows”
USSM uses and recommends
Concerned about what?
Is there anything in the farm system worth getting for Boone?
Complete aside: I’m sick of hearing them talk about it, but the fly cam is pretty impressive – at least in HD.
So, if the Yankee Funk continues, what happens first? Steinbrenner dismantles the team or fires Joe Torre? Honestly, I don’t care how Steinbrenner reacts, so long as the Yanks keep losing!
Bret Boone for A-Rod and cash!
For all of the A-Rod bashing around here, and the incredibly unlikely scenario that the Yankees would do that, I would make a deal like that in a heartbeat.
And with the Devil Rays next on the NYY schedule, NY will sweep and The Boss will get all the credit due to his inspirational statement.
Last year after NY lost 22-0 to Cleveland, he put up some nonsense inspirational statement on the scoreboards (”going gets tough, etc.”) while the Yanks took BP the next day and this was was no doubt the reason Clevelend lost that night.
Unfortunately, Bill Bavasi would probably be only in contention for third- or fourth-tier Yankee talents like Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams … who aren’t worth acquiring.
I’d make it too, even if it meant the M’s were still on the hook for as much as half ARod’s salary.
Guess you can’t get through April anymore without Steinbrenner histronics. They’ll be a week clear of the Red Sox by the end of May.
I think the title of this thread says it all….
third- or fourth-tier Yankee talents like Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams … who aren’t worth acquiring
Jeter is a 3rd/4th level talent – thats hilarious !!! *ROTFL* – he is one of the best out there in terms of getting clutch hits, playing his heart out and leadership – all that is not definitely worth 18 million $ and he is definely overpaid – but you are not talking about salary here but talent – Jeter has got a plenty of talent, not 3rd tier stuff but 1st tier stuff.
Also I know USSM and many other SABR experts do not consider ‘clutch hitting’ to exist at all, but thats a different argument altogether..
You don’t need to argue that Jeter’s a clutch hitter (he’s not) to point out how stupid it is to say he is a third or fourth tier talent. He still is one of the three best shortstops in the game.
Clutch hitting exists. Clutch hitters do not.
As for Jeter… as an upgrade over Valdez/Reese? Holy mackeral, yes.
11: Jeter isn’t even the best shortstop on his own team.
Friday night while walking home from my sox game the street vendors hawking t-shirts had a great one…
“Jeter Drinks Whine Coolers”
I couldn’t stop laughing the rest of the way home. Personally I would rather have a healthy pokey(I know it is asking a lot) then Jeter for 18million. I just can’t stand the verbal blow jobs everybody gives him during games. I just loved an article on espn comparing Jeter to Jackie Robinson.
Re #13: True, but who else is better?
I recall how Jeter and Arod started last year off so miserably…. And somehow, they didn’t end the year as chumps. It’s just funny how “small sample size” means nothing to George.
“Jeter isn’t even the best shortstop on his own team.”
The fact that the Yankees have the best shortstop in baseball doesn’t in any way diminish what Jeter can do.
Once the Yankees have had their regular diet of Devil Rays and Tigers and Royals, oh my, they’ll be happy with their performance. They have the Pirates and the Brewers on their schedule this year too. And then there’s the teams at the bottom of the AL West, whoever they might be by the time the Yankees get out to this coast. The Red Sox may end up winning the AL East and the Yankees might end up with the wild card, but I have no doubt they’ll be in the top 3 or 4 teams by the end of the season, and probably content with themselves long before the trading deadline. We’ve been through all of this before. And yes, Frankensteinbrenner will take full credit for turning them around.
That doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy their troubles for however long they last. Just don’t get your hopes up for a firesale.
Can one of the “Jeter’s clutch!” defenders please explain to me how it’s possible for someone who batted .200/.333/.233 in the ALCS during a historic team-wide postseason meltdown can retain his reputation as either a “clutch” hitter or a “team leader?”
Weeeeeellll…Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson ARE of an age where great pitchers suddenly can become mortal, and the league lets you know it’s time to work on your golf game.
As a matter of fact, the whole STAFF is on the wrong side of 30 except for Wright and Pavano. This is true for the regular lineup as well- every regular outside of A-Rod is over 30. The entire team is averaging 34.2 years old, and is older than the next oldest roster (Boston) by almost two entire years. And while it’s early yet, we should all remember from last year old teams sometimes have a tendency to make spectacular collapses. In fact, the Yankees are very reminiscent of their mid 60’s teams- an aging talent core without any farm system productivity behind them that went from winning world championships (1961/1962) to falling short (1963/1964) to completely imploding (1965-1969, with no playoffs but some decent teams until the 70’s Yankees dynasty started winning in 1976).
I doubt with the resources Steinbrenner has at his disposal they’d be down for longer than a year or two, and the analogy is not perfect (no free agency in the 1960’s, for one thing)…but I’m dubious that you can win forever without a farm system, simply by writing $200 million checks every year for payroll. At some point, you’re going to come up snake eyes on the older players you import.
While I think that NYY will still win 95 games and make the post-season, a collapse due to old-age (Brown, Johnson, Sheffield, Posada, Williams, Martinez) and some poor player-personel decisions (Womack, Wright, Pavano, Martinez again) would not surprise me. By collapse, I mean 82-88 wins and not making the post-season.
I am glad the M’s did not pay for either Wright or Pavano at the price they received fromt he Yanks.
Just asking, once George or Cashman figure out that Womack is bad, what do the Yanks have to offer for Boone? Or Moyer, if they want to add another 40+ year old starter?
Jon, Cap’n Clutch is absolutey not anything remarkable “when it counts”, but I think this is the wrong place to be making a big deal about it. I doubt there are very many Jeter apologists on a stathead Mariner blog.
It’s way early, but Robinson Cano is absolutely killing International League pitching so far this year (.405/.432/.881, 10XBHs in 42 ABs). He’s a prime candidate for a mid-season trade given the Yankees’ recent MO with prospects, but if he keeps mashing it’s probably going to take more than Boone to get him.
#19, Jon Helfgott — Jeter pumps his fists and falls into the stands. Come on, what else do you need to see from Derek “just past a diving” Jeter?
I can’t see the Yankees sucking all year, but when I woke up this morning (I’m in Thailand) and saw that they had lost again – AND ARE TIED FOR LAST PLACE WITH THE DEVIL RAYS! – I had to laugh out loud and smile smile smile. Two more things to make me smile: The Lakers aren’t going to the playoffs, and I’m still in Thailand!
Missing Seattle, but not too much,
J
Cano was mentioned last year as bait for Freddy. Dave wrote about him and, if memory serves me right, was lukewarm on him at best. The other piece of Freddy bait, Navarro, was part of the Johnson deal.
“Just asking, once George or Cashman figure out that Womack is bad, what do the Yanks have to offer for Boone? Or Moyer, if they want to add another 40+ year old starter?”
They have Eric Duncan, a slugging third baseman who has a lot of upside. He is a risk, and is a third baseman in the same way Jim Thome and Jason Giambi are third baseman, but he is exactly the type of player the M’s could use in thier power deprived farm system. Then again, since he is the Yanks only really good prospect, I highly doubt they’d give him up for a couple months of Bret Boone.
23-
Well, if Moyer’s pitching well but we do a ‘97 ChiSox “surrender trade”, you’d think the Yankees would want a lefty starter and might cough up a decent prospect- especially one who’s had success in the playoffs before.
I think if Moyer wanted to retire this year, a 3 month stint in NY might not be too hard to sell to the wife and kids- for one last shot at a ring.
That being said.. it’s a long way off… and I’d rather they suck all year long.
#19 – The argument is not if Jeter is a clutch hitter or not – someone said he is a 3rd/4th level yankee talent which is just ridiculous.. thats all.
Also as #17 said, Jeter not being the “best” shortstop on his team really doesn’t mean he is not one of the best – it very certainly does not mean he is a 3rd level talent..
I am not a Jeter fan, but that comment was too ridiculous to me.
#25
You forget to mention that the lakers are trailing the Clippers! HAH!
17: I never said that Jeter isn’t a good shortstop, because he is.
He’s just not as good as a certain third baseman on his own team who used to play shortstop, that’s all I’m saying.
If you want ridiculous comments #29, you can find them from a certain poster from Idaho, heh.
Please no more talk of Moyer going to the Yankees. I have the utmost respect for the guy and it would kill me to see him playing for the Yankees. Can you guys imagine Edgar being traded to the Yankees last year??? There are some things in life that aren’t worth the cost no matter what the reward.
I know I’ve said it before and what the hell, I will say it again:
The Mariners will not trade Jamie Moyer.
End of discussion.
So for Jeter not being clutch. If anybody is clutch, it is Jeter. Including last years melt down, his batting average is 46 points higher, 13 fewer at bats per home run, and a slugging percentage that is 72 points higher during the post season then during the regular season. I feel that is way beyond appearance of clutch, or small sample size due to how many post season games he has played in.
A Moyer trade? What? Wait. Haven’t we already… um, I’ll see you guys next thread.
edwin, your only looking at his stats in Division series. Jeter is a career .315/.386/.463 in the regular season and has hit .306/.380/.456 in all postseason games. That’s not clutch, at least not more so than you should expect.
#32: Johnny “no-trade” Olerud got a nice welcome last year when he returned to Safeco in pinstripes, and the M’s even covered most of his paycheck to do it, too.
The Mariners will not trade Jamie Moyer.
You mean like they didn’t trade Ken Griffey or Randy Johnson?
Look, it’s obvious he has 5/10 rights and he might not want to go. That being said, he’s worn other uniforms before, and a 3 months stint somewhere else before he retires for a shot at a WS ring is a BIT different than signing as a FA in NY on a 3 year deal. Basically, it’s a really long road trip.
Am I going to go out of the way to trade him if I’m a GM? No. If my team is (at best) marginally in the race or just plain out of it, would I talk to Jamie and ask him if he was interested in a trade to a playoff contender, especially if I was inclined to spend his salary on someone else in the FA market next year? Damned right I would.
It will be very interesting to see what happens to the Yankees this year. I’ve said for the past 3 years that they are bound for a collapse sooner than later, considering their tendency to trade away all of their minor league depth for overpriced, high-paid veterans. Considering that the only “homegrown” regulars left on this team are Jeter, Bernie, Posada and Rivera, they’re due for a fall.
And unike last year, in the (likely) event that one of their rotation goes down for any length of time, they don’t have an El Duque waiting in the wings. On a team with a 200+ million payroll, Tanyon Sturze should not get the ball every 5th day. And with no minor leaguers to trade, they will only be able to get overpriced veteran pitchers that teams want to unload. Chan Ho Park in pinstripes, anyone?
Their huge payroll and media hype have ensured that anything less than a World Series title is an utter and abject failure for this team. But for all that money, are they head and shoulders better than the Twins, Angels, White Sox, or even the Orioles and Blue Jays? I don’t think so.
And for the record, I don’t think the BoSox are all that better than the above teams, either.
It’s so early in the season that the only stats that seem to make any sense at all to me are team stats and, with their -24 run differential, the Yankees are truly not playing well together. Only Colorado, Pittsburgh and KC are currently more disastrous. Age is certainly taking its toll, but even the magician that is Torre is failing to find solutions.
Yankees are going to have issues. First of all, Bernie Williams patrolling CF creates a huge hole in the outfield for all kinds of balls to fall through. They need to avoid fly ball pitchers(Moyer) like the plague for that reason anyway. It wouldn’t be in their best interest to acquire Moyer at any time.
Re 31: That was unnecessary. I think most posters would agree that “ridiculous” isn’t the right adjective. Maybe my sarcasm doesn’t come across.
Can we kill the word “clutch,” except as in “grab” or in reference to a car’s transmission system?
Jeter’s Regular Season Averages: .315/.385/.463
Jeter’s Postseason Averages: .305/.377/.453
Jeter’s career situational hitting:
Bases Empty: .313/.379/.479
Runners On: .316/.394/.440
RISP: .304/.398/.423
RISP w/2 Outs: .308/.406/.433
Bases Loaded: .341/.376/.409
So nothing too amazing there. Compare that to Ichiro’s situational hitting and playoff stats:
Ichiro’s Regular Season Averages: .339/.384/.443
Ichiro’s Postseason Averages: .421/.488/.474
Bases Empty: .337/.366/.445
Runners On: .350/.424/.447
RISP: .384/.485/.480
RISP w/2 Outs: .396/.536/.493
Bases Loaded: .535/.522/.791
But I don’t have situational hitting IN the postseason. But with these stats… Ichiro is the best clutch performer EVER!
Then again, he hasn’t played quite as long, especially in the postseason.
On Ichiro, it might be useful to see his stats against pitchers based on their K/BB ratios or WHIPs or whatnot. His approach at the plate may well make him a better hitter against better pitchers – he’s such an anomaly, I’m not willing to reach any conclusions without looking at every angle.
Most hitters are better with RISP – they’re facing a pitching staff that put RISP.
For a comment on Steinbrenner’s behavior, check out the first two pitchers for Toronto in today’s Tor-Bos game
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=250418102
If there is a indeed a difference and better RISP figures are a function of weaker pitching, Ichiro is taking advantage of the situation while Jeter clearly is not.
I think Ichiro also is uniquely talented to take advantage of the infielders playing closer to the bags to hold men on. I can’t imagine anything, other than putting a ball on a tee, that would make it easier for him than widening up the infield gaps.
Re: Comment 45…..that is funny!
PLEASE don’t let Georgie Porgie figure out that Womack is code for “Suck”. He’s on my Hacking MASS team, I need every one of those hopeless PAs.
#43.
“Bases Loaded .535/.522/.791″
Did you mean a .622 OBP?
#45.
That’s awesome.
Re: Toronto’s pitchers — that’s got to be the funniest box scores I’ve ever seen.
So, forget Womack, Brown, etc: if NY continues on this path, what’s the over/under for Torre’s job? Not that he’d be unemployed for long….
# 50:
I noticed that, too. Either the .535 and .522 are mixed up, or its what you said. The numbers are copied and pasted directly from Yahoo though.
#52
OBP can be lower than BA due to the inclusion of Sacrifice Flies in the divided-by line for OBP. Given the small sample size, Ichiro obviously has a few more Sac Flies than he does walks (1) in bases-loaded situations, which is why his BA is higher than his OBP.
Ah, didn’t know that, it makes sense with only 43 AB. Thanks.
So, how big of a woody does Steinbrenner get when his “highest paid team in baseball” beats up the lowest paid team in baseball by scoring 13 runs in an inning?
Top 3rd at Yankee Stadium
Yankees 13, Devil Rays 0
Nothing like Lou’s Crew to help cure the ills a little bit.
I guess that pep talk did the trick.
Still, 8 earned by Jaret Wright can’t be good.