Doyle update
DMZ · April 22, 2005 at 4:57 am · Filed Under Mariners
Played the field yesterday for the first time this year (I believe). Hitting .476/.556/.571 in six games.
(If you don’t know who I’m talking about, please read this rather than ask in the comments. Be cool now.)
I know this is still small sample-size theater, but I’m glad to see him hitting well in the early going, all things considered. I should also have mentioned that Curto did a really cool interview with Doyle before the Tuesday game where he displayed his humor and even-keeled outlook on life and baseball, but also there was this ache in his voice when he talked about playing again that was affecting. Also, no accent.
Comments
34 Responses to “Doyle update”
Speaking of ache… That raspy reedy croak that Curto takes on when calling an exciting play — has he been under the weather recently or is that just how he sounds? I’ve listened in on a few rainiers games since you started lavishing all the praise, and he’s great and all but there are times where he’s a little tough to listen to.
At some point, would they just start looking at Doyle as a DH in the league? Or does the value of having him playing OF outweigh the risks of getting re-injured every year?
No. Doyle actually got his first start in LF on Wed, when Choo was called up. Went 2-4, if memory serves. Doyle rules.
Doyle played LF on Wednesday too, so this is the second time.
Doyle would be a great 4th OF/DH along side Ichiro, Reed, and Choo.
No accent? Really? Maybe he’s been given media training or something – the accent used to be pretty harsh.
I say bring the him up! Not to jinx the mate, but if he were to get hurt at AAA it would be far worse than getting hurt at the major league level. He has worked hard, can hit better than any of the stiffs on the bench, and the M’s need to get a return on their investment. Besides, I like watching the bloke play!
I would like to see Winn packaged for some pitching. Then let Doyle, Choo and Ibanez share LF/DH roles.
I bet Piniella is already calling Bavasi to try to get Doyle.
I think a Doyle watch on this site (something in the corner showing stats plus his last game numbers would be in order.
By the way, my wife is 5’7″ and she when she stood next to him two years ago I did not see any height difference.
Admit it, Derek: the real reason for “Doyle” is so that when he’s starring for the big club you can get a bunch of people to start yelling “Doyle!” until it becomes a real nickname. Except Dave Valle will call him “Doylie” which will kill the buzz.
I wish I had faith. I don’t. I’m afraid of his health. But if he can hold the body together he’ll be a terrific asset, just the hitter we need. Gosh, power AND walks? Hmm, those are the only two things this team (the M’s, not the R’s) doesn’t have.
I’m rooting for him.
You know Doyle isn’t actually an Aussie, right? He just lived down there for a long time. I’m surprised it wore off while he’s still using Australian phrases (“No worries” allll the time). You’d think.. I’m not sure.
As for bringing him up: no way. It’s not even ten games into this, and he hasn’t gotten regular playing time in ages. You want him to get his hacks in, let him get back into the game and see what you’ve got. You certainly don’t want him as the 4th OF/PH because even getting him an at-bat a day plus a start every couple won’t be as good for him by a long shot.
I love Doyle, too, but I’d like to see that ISO break .100 before getting too antsy.
I agree the sample size is small, but he has nothing to prove at AAA. I’m with #7. Winn for pitching, then bring Doyle up … in that order.
The “he has nothing to prove at AAA” crowd is nuts. He hasn’t played regularly in two years. He was rushed the first time the M’s called him up, and before the knee injury, was clearly overmatched. He just needs to play regularly, and the odds certainly don’t favor him being able to produce anything like Winn this year.
Patience, folks. Patience.
You are probably right, but patience has never been my strong point. I just visualize the bat and attitude he could bring to this team. At some point he may get bored destroying AAA pitching. I also think he is less likely to get hurt DHing in the majors than playing LF on some dicy AAA fields.
Are we purposefully collecting RH power hitting infielders (Boone, Beltre, Sexson, Bucky, Leone, Lopez, Morse) and LH slap hitting OFs (Ichiro, Ibanez, Doyle, Reed, Choo)? Wouldn’t some variety be good?
If Doyle stays healthy who in the majors would you project him to hit like? Same question for Choo?
Perhaps I am nuts … however I’d be careful not to put too much emphasis on his EIGHT games in 2002. Perhaps he *looked* overmatched, but eight games is only eight games (same goes for his few games this year). I must admit that I was off by a couple of years on his age (he’s currently only 23), I thought he was 25.
He’s actually younger than Jeremy Reed.
He was getting abused in 2002. He couldn’t lay off the breaking ball and was swinging from his heels. It was patently obvious that he wasn’t ready. Basically, three lost years isn’t going to have made him more ready.
Doyle’s a similar player to Reed, just the injuries have taken away most of his defensive value. He doesn’t have the plate discipline that Reed does, and I think he’s got a little more pop, but they’re in the same vein of ballplayer. I think Doyle’s going to be a Wally Joyner type of hitter if he can ever stay healthy long enough to develop.
Choo? I’ll go with Jay Payton, and yes, this means I’m not a huge fan.
In a way though, Doyle’s a lot like Alex Escobar, where after the injuries it’s almost not worth considering what they were like before, because it’s not meaningful any longer. This is where I’d love to have the scouting reports on what he’s swinging at and laying off, things like that.
His 2002 stats:
27 AB, 7 TB, 2 BB, 4 K. Abused? Really?
He certainly didn’t tear it up, but look at Reed in his first 27 AB’s this year; pretty darn close to Doyle.
.148/.207/.259 is getting abused, yes. That’s a bad line for a pitcher.
I was at Doyle’s first major league game (just lucky, also Soriano’s first start) and he hit the ball hard. At least one web gem type play kept him hitless that day.
Were Doyle or Choo every really potential major league center fielders? Both played there in the minors but really look like corner guys for sure. I know many will disagree, but I think Reed looks just fine in CF (no Cammy though).
Both have profiled as corner outfielders from day one. Players often play at positions in the minors that they’re not going to play in the majors. Gary Sheffield came up as a shortstop, for instance.
There is obvious disagreement as to how much weight to give his 2005 AAA totals vs. his 2002 MLB totals (only 27 AB’s), and whether or not he ought to be playing in the majors any time soon. I think we are all rooting for him to make it through the season w/o a major injury.
Is it better to put him at DH or put him in the outfield? Is there anything a manager can do to keep a player from injury (not including pitchers)?
Doyle reminds me a lot of Austin Kearns…and not just because he’s injury prone.
Doyle 3-5 Wed in LF (I was there) and he had the game winning 2 run double, smoked into left center
I got some nice picks of him hitting (although through the netting backstop) – Email me if you want some copies…
Playmakerr@aol.com
I can’t see it. Kearns is 6’3, Doyle is 5’8. Kearns has legitimate longball power with ISO’s consistently over .200. Doyle is a singles hitter with gap power who occasionally muscles up and puts one over the fence.
They’re just different player types. Kearns is a power hitter, a middle of the order guy.
DMZ said:”You know Doyle isn’t actually an Aussie, right? He just lived down there for a long time. I’m surprised it wore off while he’s still using Australian phrases (â€ÂNo worries†allll the time). You’d think.. I’m not sure.”
I would assume he has dual citizenship as the born-in-Miami son of Australians– the family moved back when he was 9. It is fairly common for the Oz/NZ accent to flatten over time in the US, but it seems to perk back up when the person goes back home.
Ah, the power of environment.
And I should have said “Doyle is not a born Australian”.
but he is a bonzer bloke.
so, was Bruce among the discussed anti-hubris nicknames?
I believe it was!
I would love to see Doyle come up an play left everyday and dish Randy “the softest .290 avg in mlb history to someone elses bench. Then they should put Doyle and Reed (in whichever order 1-2 in the order in front of Ichiro.
As we all know Ichiro had 262 hits last year; but this only equated to SIXTY RBI’s. He was on base 315 times and yet scored only 101 runs.
Having him bat behind Valdez and Miguel “Skillet-mitt” Olivo is a complete waste of talent…the guys numbers with runners in scoring postion over the last 3 years (good sample size) are: .359avg .474obp .455slg
Why not let him generate some runs in the middle of the order.
1.Doyle/Reed
2.Reed/Doyle
3.Ichiro
4.Belter
5.Sexson
6.Ibanez
7.Boone
8.Skillet
9.Valdez/Reese
When your starting outfield is not going to combine for 20HR’s on the season, your club need to find other ways to score. Yes you give up maybe 30-50 plate appearances for Ichiro over the course of 162 games, but if he is able to drive in some runs instead of getting on and getting stranded all the time it will traslate to more wins in my opinion.
Doyle’s a similar player to Reed, just the injuries have taken away most of his defensive value. He doesn’t have the plate discipline that Reed does, and I think he’s got a little more pop, but they’re in the same vein of ballplayer. I think Doyle’s going to be a Wally Joyner type of hitter if he can ever stay healthy long enough to develop.
This is sort of a problem, in my opinion. How many corner OF’ers with .140 isolated slugging can you play? Right now, that’s basically all the M’s have at the major and top minors for OF prospects: guys who are underpowered corner OF’ers- from Ichiro to Doyle.
Sure, someone can replace Winn and Ibanez, I guess. But it would be nice to have someone with the potential to hit 30 home runs that you don’t have to sign as a FA for a zillion dollars.
Maybe we’ll luck into Alex Gordon?
The sweet thing about D’Oyle so far is that not only is he stinging the ball but he’s making consistent contact, which after most of two years down time is the main thing. I still like him more than Reed, but it’s a toss-up at best now. One can learn finer plate discipline, but you can’t teach bat speed, and the bloke just goes up there to murder the ball. And does. It’s early in the year, and the Pacific League pitchers will heat up, but still it’s good to see the guy hitting like he hasn’t missed a beat, injuries notwithstanding, especially after the wrist problems last year. Really good to see. Reed’s two years younger, but the injuries more than cancel that out, so. I wouldn’t write off D’Oyle as a defensive player, yet, but there’s no way to project him as more than average at the outside, now. His abilities as plus corner guy were predicated upon playing all out a la Erstad, and that’s unrealistic at this point; without that, the guy isn’t big, and his speed will be impacted even if the knee is stable. Average at best in the field, then, and probably a part-timer. But he may prove us wrong, and exceed that parameter.
No way should anyone think about promoting or moving D’Oyle before June at the very, very earliest: he need’s regular PT. Choo was the right guy to bring up now. He’s healthy, he was hitting decently, he can play all three positions in the outfield even if he’s no better in CF than Reed—and that’s Choo’s future, to me, fourth outfielder. I think the comparison’s to Jay Payton are pretty good, unless Shin-soo takes a big step up at/to the plate and makes significantly more consistent contact. I’m not banking on that; he just doesn’t seem like a very adaptable or natural hitter, unlike Reed and the mate. Which leads back to e-coward’s comment, that in Reed, Choo, and D’Oyle the Ms have three guys with highly similar packages: lefty corner OFer without HR power or high walk rate. (I don’t include Ichiro in that since he is sui generis as a hitter, and much better than the others defensively and as a baserunner. I don’t include Winn either, but he’d make _five_ guys.) That figures to: a) one LFer, check; b) one 4th OFer/pinch hitter, check; one traded. If the team keeps Winn, that’s two traded. Who’s who? Pick ’em.
I would love to see Doyle come up an play left everyday and dish Randy “the softest .290 avg in mlb history to someone elses bench.
Um, Greg? What part of 54 xbhs/53 BB (2004) or don’t you understand? Look, Winn isn’t very exciting, as he doesn’t excel at any aspect of the game (except perhaps baserunning). It doesn’t seem like it, but he’s actually a pretty good player. If come July Bucky is back and ready to hit and we get a nice offer for Winn, I’d probably send iron-glove Raul back to the outfield and make the deal. But I’m not looking to rush an injury-prone prospect who hasn’t played in two years just to dump one of the 10 best centerfielders in baseball in 2004 because he’s not sufficiently exciting.
Re: (# 30) THE SLUGGING OUTFIELD – I don’t agree with the notion that the outfielders (or infielders) should be grouped together as a unit (to discuss their batting skills).
Players at skilled positions and players at unskilled positions seems like a more logical division.
IMO (and YMMV) at the five AL unskilled positions (LF, RF, 1B, 3B, and DH), a team should have two OBP players, two SLP players, and one who is at least average in both areas. And the Mariners have that.
It seems to me that REED should not be lumped into this.