Game 89, Orioles at Mariners
DMZ · July 15, 2005 at 6:04 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
RHP Rodrigo Lopez v RHP Joel Pineiro (that’s ei for everyone commenting). 7:05, FSN.
There are, according the the press notes, 11k tickets left tomorrow and 10k tickets for Sunday. Yow. Willie Bloomquist is working on a nice little nine-game hitting streak, during which he’s hit .438. But today he sits in favor of Morse at short and Reed in center. Also, it’s the sixth anniversary of Safeco Field. Yayyyy.
But most importantly — Snelling’s in left field, batting 8th. Woo-hoo!
Comments
184 Responses to “Game 89, Orioles at Mariners”
I’m sure if you isolate 5 ABs from Ichiro, you wouldn’t find a hit.
WHOA! Did you see the way Snelling BLINKED?!?! SEND HIM BACK TO AAA ALREADY!!!
I wouldn’t sit anyone. Snelling SHOULD be in AAA getting ABs every night if he’s not starting at this level. Snelling shouldn’t be in AAA because of his 0-5 start, but because the M’s shouldn’t tamper with Winn’s already declining trade value (due to his own pitiful play).
Woe, calm down everyone.
Where did I say he should be sent back?
My first statement was referring to the way the Mariners may possibly think.
My second statement “he’s had 5 AB’s…” said nothing about believing he should be demoted, all I said is I would have liked to have seen a hit.
Whilst I think Snelling will become quite a good player, most of the people here think he’s some sort of superstar in the waiting… I’m sorry for even mentioning Doyle’s name here, your all so blind that you think he’s some sort of messiah, good grief.
Ironic isn’t it, you bag Willie Bloomquist for his hot streak that saw him hit over .400 in his first shot at the ML, yet Doyle hits over .400 in triple AAA and you think he’s the next coming of christ…
Rizzs’ toupee is somehow more irritating after a loss.
Christ should be capitalized
I thought for a brief second that I may have been wrong about that irrational comment I made.
Snelling certainly is way hotter than Willie, and I’m not talking about hitting…
(Just a totally relevant comment from the “female fan” perspective) (tipping my pink visor now)
152. Pitiful play OF LATE. Winn would probably be the first to tell you he’s sucking it up right now, but you make him sound like a stiff, and you and I both know he’s not.
If he should get traded, I would suggest Winn will do the things he’s always done, provide good defense and, presumably, hit better.
Teams around the league probably have a sense of what a veteran player like Winn is like, and that his recent 9-for-57 is a slump that all mortal players go through.
Woe? As in, “Woe as Me”? Are you somehow saddened by Snelling not having a hit in five entire at bats?
I guess five is a lot. It’s one more than four, one less than six, twice as much as two and a half, and is a prime number. That’s pretty important.
Woah Bri….
I am a big fan of Winn’s. I’ve supported this guy for the last 2 years when M’s fans have been ripping him to shreds. I believe that he’s a terribly underrated player.
I was simply referring to his current slump.
Is there any pizza left?
Ironic isn’t it, you bag Willie Bloomquist for his hot streak that saw him hit over .400 in his first shot at the ML, yet Doyle hits over .400 in triple AAA and you think he’s the next coming of christ…
That’s not ironic.
Also, no one bagged Bloomquist for his hot streak.
Also, Doyle’s career minor league numbers are pretty awesome.
No one thinks he’s the next coming of Jesus Christ, so far as I know.
So pretty much nothing you wrote is true.
160. Then we’re in agreement. Winn’ll hit again, whether the M’s keep him or trade him.
Going 0-2, with one BB, in a game that happened, what seems like, eons ago and going 0-3 today are simply an indication that on two completely unrelated days, Snelling will not get a hit.
In fact, and I know Dave is going to tear me a new hole for this one, I think Willie being given a chance to play everyday is improving him and showing us what he can do. Snelling deserves the same chance. As does Morse, Lopez, Reed, and Olivo. They all need to play everyday, and I know there’s a way to work it out so they can.
But for whatever reason, Hargrove et al seem to not want to do things this way. I’m almost afraid for what happens when Bucky gets healthy.
I haven’t been a big critic of Hargrove thus far, because I’ve understood almost everything he’s done (and had to explain it here for some), but he and Bavasi seem to be hanging onto a slim hope that they can still be competitive this year. Right now, I think that’s really what is getting in the way. I also think that Bavasi not moving anybody is getting in the way too, which may or may not be part of the previous statement’s problem.
I dunno, I wish I knew what they were thinking. There’s too many people for the number of positions available right now. That means some people have to go. Boone is gone, that’s a good start. Hopefully it’s not the end.
Oh, and don’t look now, but it seems as though Mr. Negeotte has recovered nicely from his injury.
Clint Nageotte: Individual Stats (Pitching)
0W 0L 0.87 ERA 6G 0GS 0CG 0SHO 2SV 10.1IP 5H 1R 1ER 0HR 5BB 11SO
#164: he and Bavasi seem to be hanging onto a slim hope that they can still be competitive this year.
Baseball Prospectus’ Monte Carlo method pegs the hope of a postseason berth for the M’s at 0.2% (before tonight’s loss). I would call that hope slim. The good news, I guess, is that they have a better chance than Tampa Bay and Kansas City.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php
I’m trying to think what was the better thing that I saw tonight:
Palmeiro’s 3,000th hit or Wedding Crashers? (I shut the game off after the 6th inning; this team, Sexson notwithstanding, makes me want to go to the movies more frequently.
A. Great moment for baseball although I wish he waited a day.
B. Vince Vaughn was hilarious in the first half of the movie, while Owen Wilson took over in the second half. Cameos by country music star Dwight Yoakam early and Will Ferrell late. The former was a riot, the latter creeped me out. (See the movie and you’ll see what I mean.)
Also, one of the characters scores a touchdown in the movie’s football scene and yells, “Crabcakes and football; that’s what Maryland does!!” To tie that in with tonight’s game, I thought through my laughter, “Crabcakes and baseball; that’s what Maryland does!!”
I give Wedding Crashers 3 stars (out of 4) and this current Mariner team 1.5 stars.
In fact, and I know Dave is going to tear me a new hole for this one, I think Willie being given a chance to play everyday is improving him and showing us what he can do.
Willie’s been given a chance to play everyday before and he didn’t improve.
As for showing us what he can do… he was given regular playing time for years in the minors and showed us what he could do now. I don’t see what’s fundamentally changed to turn him from a .260 hitter into a .400 one. Improvement with age isn’t *that* blippy.
So your arguement is that Willie wont improve by giving him everyday playing time? That Willie, because of his past, is incapable of performing to a higher level?
I can understand the importance of skepticism because of past performance, but shouldn’t there be an allowance for variance as well?
As for the statement, it was more in a defense of getting the other guys to play everyday. Lopez, Morse, Reed, and Olivo have to play everyday in order to get better at recognizing Major League pitching and play. I would argue that even Willie Bloomquist can find a better niche then he has had in the past with regular playtime.
The allowance for variance goes both ways. Wilson Valdez never got any better with regular play time. Nor have several thousand players over the years. But why is it that the “hot” prospects are the only ones supposed to improve with playtime? A marginal (at best, in Willie’s case) prospect has no hope because he’s not a great prospect?
Somehow all this logic seems a bit flawed. Yes, a better player should conceivably have a better career in the major leagues. But does that mean that there is no room for marginal prospects to get playtime?
Rearranging accounts on the S.S. Social Security…sigh…
I’m not getting dragged into politics, honestly, but: Social Security is just fine. Pick another analogy.
Play Willie at catcher and be done with it!
So your arguement is that Willie wont improve by giving him everyday playing time? That Willie, because of his past, is incapable of performing to a higher level?
No. No.
I can understand the importance of skepticism because of past performance, but shouldn’t there be an allowance for variance as well?
Allowing for variance is what allows me to be rational during his hot performance.
But does that mean that there is no room for marginal prospects to get playtime?
Not at the cost of good or great prospects, no.
Here’s the thing, and I’ll try and be as clear as possible.
Bloomquist may well be having his career year.
He is certainly hitting well right now.
Some of his improvement is likely due to the natural effects of age and experience — players, as a group, peak at about 27.
It is amazingly unlikely that Bloomquist, given his career major and minor league stats, turned into a true .400 hitter at some point this year. You can look for historical comparisons all you want, but you’re not going to find any.
Michael Morse is, based on his minor league statistics, a better long-term bet to produce compared to Bloomquist
Chris Snelling is, based on his minor league statistics, a far better long-term bet to produce compared to Bloomquist
Therefore, any solution that seeks to increase Bloomquist’s playing time that costs either of those two playing time is not the best one.
You know what I think?
I think we have a view of Willie as a sucktastic player because the M’s rushed him through the minor leagues and handed him a major league job at 24- when it was CLEAR he wasn’t a finished product.
I think if he had been left in the minors longer to mature instead of on the bench, he’d be viewed as more of a David Eckstein/Rich Amaral type of player. Because I strongly suspect that’s what he actually is- and if those two players had been handled like Willie was, you’d hear much of the same complaints about them.
What say we trade Guardado and Bloomquist for Renteria
Or is Renteria’s contract too complicated/long?
Keep in mind that WFB or anyone else can get 1 hit per game, every day, and still be batting .250 – and if most of those are singles, that leads to a pretty poor OPS as well. Toss in a few walks, and you suddenly have what looks like a hot hand. All those doubles last week were an aberration – why don’t confirmed bat-gods like Pujols or Vlad or A-Rod hit 5 doubles in a row? Statistical fluke.
Back to Dunn for a minute – yes he K’s alot, he’s essentially a more successful Sexson – but from a lineup composition perspective, we need more slugging/XBH’s/HRs. NONE of our close outfield prospects is going to deliver that. If Dunn is a salary dump by the Reds, offer them a couple of decent Tacomans – Strong, Leone, maybe even Betancourt. Then shop Winn to the contenders for pitching prospects.
Seriously – the only place you’re likely to add significant power to the lineup is left field. Our top outfield prospects have below-average power. Swap average for some beef. Or prove to me that Leone can be an everyday left fielder and can hit ML pitching over an entire season.
DMZ,
Again, I’m not arguing against “better” prospects getting more playing time. I totally agree there. The treatment of Snelling right now boggles my mind, but I think it has more to do with the fact that Randy Winn is still a Mariner then anything else. What I am saying is that with growth of age and maturity must also come a recognition of skillsets required to be a ML quality player. Willie has been here for a few years now and maybe he’s recognized that he needs to take certain pitches, or that he can drive certain pitches, or has recognized what certain pitchers throw to him. He may not have the natural power of a Sexson or Olivo, may not have the incredible contact hitting (hand / eye coordination) of Ichiro, or even the defensive abilities of Beltre or Reed, but perhaps he’s making up for a lack of natural raw ability with experience?
Just throwing out theories. Experience is often the key that every ballplayer needs to become great. Some can do it right away, some can’t. But I would wager that maybe Willie B has fed off his experiences and might be putting those to practical use now.
I still agree that Bloomquist’s best role is late inning pinch runner to steal a very needed base. Because, at his best, even if he turns into an Amaral or tops out as an Eckstein type, he’s still one of many “leadoff” or “two-hole” hitters that we already have. He’s basically redundant to Ichiro, Winn, and Reed already, which is right NOW a concern. We don’t need to add another non-power hitter to the lineup everyday, unless he’s going to sub for one of the others like him.
How do you figure that Snelling has “below average power”?
His career slugging is what, .478?
He’s not Bonds, but he is not “below average”.
#176: Edgar Renteria has a 4/$40m deal. No editorializing about WFB from me in this post.
My pie in the sky dream would be for Ichiro to agree to move to center field and pursue Aubrey Huff to play in right or left I guess. We desperately need more power in the lineup and some left handed bats. No idea what the Rays would demand in exchange for Huff, but he seems pretty well suited to playing in Safeco and would give the Ms another left handed power bat, and he’s still, what 28 years old?
Like #177 I’m not sure that anyone in AAA will be a significant power bat. Even watching Jeremy Reed it’s clear he’s a more a high average contact hitter than a power guy.
Uh, Reed is a high average contact hitter more then a power guy. He’ll be a doubles hitter at best. I don’t expect more then 15-20 home runs from Reed in any given year. I’ve heard him compared to Johnny Damon and Rusty Greer, which would be fine with me. They’re both high RBI guys and doubles hitters. I could live with that for Jeremy Reed.
#181: See http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002377309_starnotes13.html for Ichiro’s comments on moving to CF after playing the position at the All Star Game:
Mariners fans have long contemplated the possibility of Ichiro moving from right to center, which would open up a corner outfield spot for a power hitter.
“I don’t know if I want to, but if the Mariners want me there, I would do it,” he said.
Hmm, sounds like someone would need to ask him. How hard could that be?
Bloomquist in center tonight