Winn to the Giants
Jayson Stark just reported on Baseball Tonight that Winn goes to the Giants for Yorvit Torrealba and Jesse Foppert. Added by Jason: Here’s what Foppert has done in 2005.
More in a moment, but this seems to me to be a pretty good deal for the M’s. [Interestingly, Jayson Stark actually had to take a call while on the air to confirm that the deal was done.]
Foppert is a nice addition. He’s had both control and injury problems, but his minor league numbers are solid, and he was considered a top prospect before Tommy John surgery in 2003. Just turned 25, and I like him better than Sean Henn, although I’d certainly trust Dave much more on that.
Edited by Dave: Great move. Foppert and Nageotte are very comparable. I’ll have more later.
Torrealba is nothing special, but he adds much-needed catching depth. Maybe they’re just collecting catchers to see if the M’s can find one they can’t screw up.
Comments
92 Responses to “Winn to the Giants”
Christianson is far from good enough to come close to thinking about adding to the 40-man, let alone bringing up.
Good to see we got some value for Winn and (hopefully) opened up regular playing time for Doyle.
Question is, do you guys think this is it? Or are there more moves coming?
Oh, forgot about Valdez’s spot that we never filled! So Felix has room on Monday.
It’s official.
http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20050730&content_id=1151463&vkey=pr_sea&fext=.jsp&c_id=sea
From the sounds of it, Snelling should be coming back up soon to take over.
Good job Bavasi!
More moves. Guardado will be more interesting.
I think Christianson has enough of a pro track record to show that he’s not a major league catcher.
Anybody know how old Foppert was when he had his TJ surgery?
I really like this deal. We obviously need some help now at catcher, and Yorvit is an established MLB catcher. Foppert is a work in progress, but a big upside being he’s had a fair amount of MLB work, starting 23 in 2003. I didn’t think we’d get anyone with MLB experience for Winn, and thought it was likely to see a couple mid-levels come over and play in Tacoma or San Anontio for a while.
Great trade for the M’s. When will we know if Foppert and Torrialba will be in majors or minors?
56: He was 23
What will be even more interesting is the roster moves associated with this. Obviously Snelling comes up, but somebody (Spiezio?) has to go on the DL, which means we recall someone else (Strong?), and then we dump a catcher (Wiki?), and if we keep Foppert on the main roster, a pitcher (Sele?) has to go.
I’m listening to Tacoma right now, and Mike Curto made a comment about Jamal Strong, who’s out of the lineup tonight. He seemed to feel strongly the Jamal would be coming up.
In case anyone was curious, Will Carroll reports that the Giants plan to keep Winn in left field
61: He’s going to start in center on monday, according to the AP Release
How old was Foppert when he had TJ?
Digging around on the ‘net, it appears he had the surgery in September 2003, so he would have been 23.
jason
I’m getting confused with all the rules… can someone clarify if I have this right, some posts are confusing me further…
Doyle can’t be called up for ten days. Or what’s left of the tend days.
Strong can be called up to cover left field or the bench spot until doyle is available.
Can that be what’s going on?
Yunieski, meet Yorvit. Yorvit, meet Yunieski.
RIP RANDY WINN
2005 .270/.337/.385 — 12.0 VORP (5th among position players)
2004 .304/.341/.427 — 34.7 VORP (2nd)
2003 .295/.342/.425 — 28.1 VORP (5th)
He was really good for us but definitely time for him to move on. I have a feeling that 2003 will be the only season in his entire career (as a starter) with a winning record. I’m glad he moved closer to home at least. I’m sure nobody in Seattle has a bad thing to say about him without comparing him to Mike Cameron.
Felix update – through 4 inn, 7 K’s 0 hits/runs (2BB).
Wow, the Giants fans are pissed off.
We giants fans are always pissed off. I don’t think we have supported a move by our GM since the acquisition of bonds in 93
To make room for Yorvit Torrealba, who is going to get sent down to Tacoma? Will it be Miguel Olivo or Wiki Gonzaelz? Also, what are the chances of Aaron Sele getting DFA’d due to the imminent recallment of Felix Hernandez from Tacoma? Or, if not that, then is there a possible Gil Meche or Joel Piñeiro deal in the works?
this is a solid move, yeah as a prospect this guy is about like Nageotte, Meche and Pineiro and tons of other pitchers, but that is the way it works, there are a few Felixes, but most prospects are guys with ?, some develop, some don’t the best thing to do is get as many as you can and law of averages will work for you. Winn is a solid major leaguer, but not someone that would get you a sure thing. Getting the catcher tossed in was a great move by Bavasi, last I checked you need 2 major league catchers and we have 0, even a good glove no bat guy is better than what we have now.
#69 Kenshin,
Not even the Jason Schmidt deal in 2001?
I wonder how much the Giants fans hated it when SF hosed the Mariners in the deal that sent them Bill Swift, Mike Jackson and Dave Burba for Kevin Mitchell? Or the Salomon Torres trade?
Arm trouble? 82 BBs in 122 IPs (career)? We just got Gil Meche’s younger brother. I’m with Jim (#8 above) and MikeL (#19). Not too excited about this one.
70: Let’s all hope it’s Olivo.
I don’t see how this is a bad deal for the Giants.
I mean, half the reason, as said, that it is a good deal for us is that Doyle can play.
Winn is better than they think. And certainly better than the two players we got right now.
72 Jeremy
I think fans were pretty neutral on that move. If you remember, Schmidt basically was a slightly better version of Brett Tomko when the Giants acquired him in 2001. We certainly did not laud it as a brilliant move at the time.
Matt: Scope Foppert’s career minor league numbers over four years — 3.30 walks per nine, 11.40 strikeouts per nine — and you might feel better.
Felix pulled after 4.0 IP, 7 k, 0 h, 0 r. Pitch count was 60, his limit for the day. Pretty dominant.
Baseball Prospectus ’05 take on Foppert:
“Foppert gained top-prospect status by fanning 183 in 140.1 combined Double A and Triple A inning at age 21. That ability’s still there, if the Giants use him judiciously. Expect a decent 2005, then a big breakout in ’06.”
BP take on Yorvit Torrealba (official nominee for All-Name team)
“When Sabean traded Nathan, Bonser, Liriano for Pierzynski, many Giants fans wondered why they simply didn’t play Torrealba instead. . . remains a somewhat flawed but cheap, serviceable option.”
I think this is a good deal. Bavasi got everything he could possibly have gotten for Winn.
Also seems to me that Sabean is continuing with his hell-for-leather, get me every vet out there, win the Series NOW strategy before Bonds retires. If the Giants are buyers then Bonds must be coming back this year.
Hey, for what it’s worth, I found out that Yorvit Torrealba doesn’t have any remaining options, and his contract is guaranteed at $715,000 for this season; conversely, Miguel Olivo has remaining options, and his contract is worth $400,000 while in Seattle, but only $52,600 while in Tacoma.
Yeah, Winn has been underrated, and the Giants fans haven’t seen him play, so it’s not surprising they’re upset. It’ll be rough at first — as we saw last year, Winn takes some time to adjust to CF. And of course his arm isn’t anything special. But I bet he’ll grow on them, and by the end of the season they’ll think they got the better end of the deal.
I have to say this is one of those “good all round” deals you like to see. The M’s had a logjam in the outfield, so they free up space for the young guys to move up and get regular starts (sit down, WFB, and stay out of the outfield!); the giants don’t lose anybody who was contributing day-to-day, and only forgo some potential; and they even did well by Randy, who could have ended up anywhere but at least got to go close to home (and he didn’t go to the Yankees or a division rival). Yeah, the M’s get a catcher who’s nothing special, but that’s still better than what they’ve had the last couple of years, and they get a high risk/high potential guy to work on AAA (I just wish I had more confidence in that, and I wish the M’s farm system had a better track record with damaged arms). So I’d have to say, on the face of it at this very moment, this is another one that goes into Bavasi’s plus column.
Speaking of Ryan Christianson (since he was mentioned) he just missed a curve ball from Atchison to let Luis “the Rule 5 kid” Ugueto score from SECOND.
Remember, folks, that Foppert had TJ surgery. Probably around 80% of pitchers who have TJ surgery have full recovery. TJ is almost a routine procedure. It takes about two years to come all the way back, and the first year back is usually spent reacquiring command. Foppert is pretty much right on track for a full recovery from TJ surgery.
Shoulder surgeries, such as Meche’s, are totally different. Virtually no pitcher has ever come back fully from a labrum surgery. Meche stands out simply by dint of even still pitching at a semblance of an MLB level. Most guys with a labrum never get that far back.
Getting a guy with Foppert’s stuff on the cheap because he’s rehabbing from TJ is excellent. Much better to get a guy with the upaide of Foppert, though rehabbing, than a guy without injury such as Henn who projects as mid-rotation at best.
Over at a Giants blog, http://www.mccoveychronicles.com, reaction seems to be negative leaning towards neutral. Interesting that it is the mirror image of our mostly positive reaction.
82: I think what makes Giants fans mad is that Winn is not an upgrade over Alou or Ellison, and only a slight upgrade over Tucker. Plus they have Linden in the minors. It’s kind of a waste. I don’t see why they need him.
Forgot to add – Torrealba also allows Olivo to return to Tacoma to try to get straightened out. Though, as Dave has pointed out previously, guys who are sent down to get straightened out seldom ever do resurrect their careers.
So Ms got a pitching prospect with high upside and a journeyman catcher that is very good defensively for essentially Lou Pinella. Good move. Now spin one of our catchers to the Padres.
Bavasi still has not played his most valuable chips yet. This move should give him some extra leverage as to what the teams will now offer for relievers.
I hear olivo for miguel ojeda and they both go to the minors.
To add to what Steve said, not only do most pitchers come all the way back from TJ surgery, some come back further, throwing harder after the surgery than before. Foppert’s shot at being a #1 isn’t that much less than it was 2-3 years ago, which makes him a steal for Winn.
The Olivio deal is correct.
– TNT sports.
I have to preface this by saying I like Winn. Quite a bit.
But I just have this terrible feeling that, within a month, Doyle will be broken and we’ll be seeing Wee Willie starting. Every day. All season. And next season.
Maybe this is a good deal, I haven’t seen either of these guys play and I trust the anylsis here…but something just feels off, to me.