Moyer and other no-trades
We haven’t really talked about what didn’t happen, and what it means. Jamie Moyer was almost traded twice, and refused both trades. The PI has a high-level rundown.
And while reports vary wildly (as they will), I wanted to ignore some of the issues around this (Jamie wants to return in 2006? Home starter)(and also his no-trade decision) and focus on the deals.
No matter which version of the Astros deal you hear: Moyer and Winn for Chris Burke and Chad Harville, for instance, or Moyer for Fernando Nieve, or some variant of that — these are hauls. That’s a Freddy Garcia-level haul for a 42-year old pitcher who hasn’t been more effective than a league average starter.
Details on the Braves deal are scarce. The Braves seem to do less negotiation-through-the-media and general rumor-mongering than any other team, and it’s interesting nothing’s leaked from the Mariner side either. So not a lot to be judged there.
Reading accounts around the country, it also appears that Meche’s shoulder problem destroyed whatever trade interest there was. Teams are trying to spin the team’s asking price for Guardado as too high which is hard to verify: they’ve got a vested interest in selling a good reason they didn’t get him, but the Mariners (it would seem) weren’t willing to take the best deal on the table as the deadline approached. Without knowing the names offered, it’s hard to make any judgement on whether that was wise.
I do think the team’s a little too stuck on having an ace closer and all the related hangups, and Hargrove’s usage of Guardado is frustrating (for instance, his reluctance to use him in extra-inning games at home, which drives Dave batty). Guardado has a gaudy ERA and a shoulder that’s still torn, even if he’s pitching effectively with the injury now. I always argue that you’re better off taking the risk of trading these guys early (Halama after 2000, Franklin after 2003) if you can find a team willing to bite, and if once in a while they turn out well for the other side, so be it.
I’m not as excited about the Winn/Villone trades as others. Live arms, yay, roll the dice — bringing in some guys with fastballs at least helps balance an organization filled with pitchers with decent stuff, decent control, and little impact potential. I look at the collection and think “meh”.
But trading Winn to create space for Doyle’s a good move all by itself. Villone to Sherrill’s a good tradeoff. Both of those guys were reasonably expensive for a fair chunk of money, and the team’s replacing them with cheap internal options. This is what fans have been clamoring for: a commitment to the future.
And the Moyer deals, if nothing else, demonstrate both that the front office is good at getting value for their players and that they’re willing to trade beloved local figures if it’ll make a difference improving the team’s long-term chances.
Now we wait to see if they can pull off some waiver deals. Last year they made a couple of moves (Mike Myers waived, picked up by Boston, Borders traded to the Twins), and it’ll be interesting to see if they try and find homes for a pitcher like Pineiro, who they might still like to move but may have to pay part of his remaining contract. And while these last starts may make it more likely they’ll punt him, it also unfortunately makes it less likely other teams will take a chance… but then the Yankees are taking people off the street and turning them into emergency starters at this point.
Comments
43 Responses to “Moyer and other no-trades”
Overall, I think these deals were nice to add overall depth to the minor league system. Guys like Barzado or Foppert are good risk/reward-type players.
The major league team needed purging of players that were expendable and were blocking up the development of the kids in the minor leagues. Winn and Villone were two of the most egregious examples of this, and if they got nothing for them, it would have still been OK. I’m still looking forward to a few more minor moves this month to keep the turnover going.
As far as Moyer goes, it’s too bad that he nixed those trades. However, I also think he’s earned the same amount of respect as Edgar did, and should be given the courtesy of deciding when/where to end his career. I don’t fault him for that one bit.
Oh, and I also forgot: Considering what little the other “sellers” in this market got for their spare parts, the M’s did a fantastic job.
A few points about the Moyer thing –
first, as previously stated, I’m glad Moyer stayed, and I hope that he re-signs with us for next year. I don’t understand the viewpoint that he ‘owes’ the Mariners the right to trade him wherever just because he’s been employed here for a number of years at a respectable salary. That’s like saying if you work for some big national or multi-national chain, and you’ve done a good job for years at a decent salary, if they ask you to move to Siberia, you go. Bavasi was asked post-game if a player nixing a trade causes bad feelings in the organization when it comes to re-signing that player next year, and he cagily said ‘no, usually not, though it depends on the exact circumstances’. I’m hoping there’s no ill will towards Jamie.
second, I’m surprised nobody has mentioned that Houston and Atlanta are both NL teams, and Moyer hasn’t played in the NL since his days with the Cubs. So much of Moyers’ success comes from knowing the batters he’s facing (from years of facing him, studying video, charting other members of his rotation and what they throw when facing guys and how those guys react – given that’s a big part of your game, how do you come up to speed to do that against NL guys that you rarely have seen play, in mid-season, and be expected to contribute immediately from roation or bullpen? that, plus the humidity/weather factor mentioned in another thread (which affects not only the player, but the baseball itself and how it travels), is pretty significant.
third, i think it’s classy of the ms and the braves to remain silent and respect the privacy of the potential deals. i think that kind of respect towards players helps to build a rep for an organization that, for other reasons (the park, the travel, the fewer national marketing possibilities) needs all the positive press amongst potential free agents that it can get.
How is it that Moyer has “earned the same amount of respect as Edgar did”??? He’s not a lifetime Mariner. He spent a few good years here, but he’s been godawful last year and not horrible this year. At some point, you have to recognize that the future of the team is more important than the past, especially when the past is ruining the future. And Moyer is no Edgar Martinez. That’s a silly statement in my opinion. You can’t idolize every single semi-successful player that comes through, or else your team goes to hell when it comes down to replacing those guys.
I’m also disappointed in the lack of a Guardado deal. I felt like we should’ve taken our 90 cents on the dollar given his age and injury issues. If he could’ve gotten us a starter better than Nieve, I would’ve done it in a heartbeat. I hope he passes through waivers or gets claimed by a team that will deal with us.
With that assumption, then Greg Maddux and John Smoltz didn’t earn any respect they were due since they weren’t lifetime Braves.
Moyer? Let’s see where he stands on the all-time Mariner lists:
Wins: #1
Games played: #4 (tops among starters)
Starts: #1
IP: #1
K: #2
If Moyer was putting up stats like Aaron Sele, then you may have a point. But he’s still effective, and you know what? I’d let him play. There are plenty of other pitchers you can cut to add youngsters to the staff before you get to him.
My heart breaks over the deals that could have happened for Moyer. High larceny they would have been, for, as you say, a 42 year old bad pitcher. I don’t blame Moyer; he’s got contract rights for a reason. But for the team, I am saddened.
I do blame Bavasi for the failure to get anything for Guardado. Though, I am prepared to hear that he tried and just couldn’t get anything worthwhile, even considering that Guardado is an ace closer on a very bad team with a known pre-existing injury problem. Under those circumstances, frankly, if the best offer on the table was a single good AA pitcher prospect, I would have taken it. But it’s possible that there was no offer that good for Guardado. Major-league GMs can be canny from time to time (can’t prove it by Chunk LeMar, though), and they all knew all the things I just said about Guardado.
Or, to put it more briefly, I’m either surprised that there was no offer at all worth taking for Guardado, or I’m disapointed on the degree of overvalue Bavasi put on Guardado in failing to trade him.
Re: Winn/Villone/Olivo, no obvious impact player came back, but this group _together_ couldn’t bring that. What we see net is: a) the near-term catching situation addressed, b) three arms with velocity and upside brought in plus some organization filler, c) slots opened up for talented, in-system players, and d) salary freed up for off-season acquisitions. All that for three guys who had NO future with the Ms, and without taking back an ugly contract. Together, the deals do show a semblance of a plan, and some real deftness. I see nothing not to like.
If the ‘Stros offered any of those players for Moyer, it’s a shame they’re not here now—but Jamie doesn’t have to say yes, and that’s that.
It’s unfortunate that a deal for Guardado couldn’t be put together. I will say, I’m glad that he wasn’t dealt at a discount to his present effectiveness. Too often through the years, the Ms have kicked away home talent, and the ability to say no, thank you has value, too. Supposing that Eddie continues to be effective through the end of the year, his value in an off-season trade will be as high or higher than it is now: he’ll have a fine season behind him, be a year away from a major injury, have one year left on his contract, and the dollars will still look reasonable compared to what has been offered to far less effective guys last year and likely in this coming year as well. I DO expect that Eddie will be dealt then, discount or not, but having whoever comes back arrive now rather than in the off-season makes no real difference to the organization. I can’t see Guardado making it through waivers, so he figures to stay until the post-season is done.
Meche’s ‘knot in the shoulder’ couldn’t have come at a worse time. Ideally, he comes back and takes his turn for the rest of the year, but no matter what the situation for Meche in the off-season is going to be very complicated. I hope and pray for a waiver deal _here_ as the best (paying) way out, but who knows.
. . . Watching the Mariners play the remaining two months of ’05 is going to be very strange. It is obvious that another half dozen significant guys need to ‘arrive’ on the team, by one means or another. There remains a clutch of injured pitchers and prospects almost ready several of whom are likely to be on the team next year, plus several prominent players who still, obviously should and need to be traded in remaking this outfit. . . . Dead men walking, and fledglings side by side trying to stay professional and squeak out the odd win or three. . . . It’ll be a weird time, so I hope the guys themselves just focus on having some fun to the extent that they can.
The dead men might not be walking that much longer.
If Moyer really loved this team he would have allowed himself to be traded and then resign next year. No?
6: True enough about Eddie. However, at least Bavasi did SOMETHING, and as 8 said, addressed some immediate needs for the team. Was anything the real sexy trade that Freddy was last year? Not really.
However, look at what the other “sellers” did: The Pirates really did nothing special; Gerut may eventually recover, maybe not. The Rockies got nothing beyond Bigbie. The Rangers got rid of Park. Cincy, Tampa and KC did nothing.
Looking at what happened across the board, Bavasi easily did the best job this weekend in getting prospects for spare parts.
With that assumption, then Greg Maddux and John Smoltz didn’t earn any respect they were due since they weren’t lifetime Braves.
Moyer? Let’s see where he stands on the all-time Mariner lists:
Wins: #1
Games played: #4 (tops among starters)
Starts: #1
IP: #1
K: #2
The very fact that Jamie Moyer could ever lead an organization in K’s shows just how bad we’ve been. Seriously, I don’t think the fact that we’ve had exactly zilch other than Moyer in the way of good pitchers over the history of our franchise warrants deitizing him. He’s given us six very nice seasons, but look at his WHIP. His ERA right now is a mirage if you go by that method of prediction. And gimme a break about Smoltz. Yeah, he “started” his career in Detroit, but did he ever play for the Tigers? No. He’s a lifetime Brave and is now into his 16th very productive season for them. That’s a joke of a comp for Moyer. And Maddux earned respect for the Braves because he was one of the three best pitchers in baseball during his run there. Um, Moyer gave us none of this.
I like Moyer and all, I really do. He was a nice pitcher to have from ’97 to ’03. But to compare him to the great Braves pitchers is to do an injustice to the Atlanta pitchers. Moyer is no Smoltz or Maddux. I dig that the front office got this and almost received a great deal for him. Bavasi realizing that the M’s future was much more important than keeping an old geezer around for somewhat sentimental value was one of my favorite moments of this trade deadline. Bavasi has his moments of utter strength as a GM, and trading certainly seems to be one of them. Too bad he can’t catch a break with Beltre right now or I’d be looking forward to 2006 a lot more.
Just wanted to add that I was talking about Moyer’s ERA/WHIP for ’05 only, and not his career (as it sortof sounded in my post).
Looking at what happened across the board, Bavasi easily did the best job this weekend in getting prospects for spare parts.
Being better than the likes of Chuck Lamar, Dan O’Briend, Allan Baird, and Dave Littlefield really isn’t something to jump for joy about.
Maybe you would have preferred he was in Ontario moving, with his cell phone on just in case?
Randy Johnson wasn’t a good pitcher while he was in Seattle?!
I can’t believe the Astros were willing to give up Nieve for Moyer. Have they not seen Jamie’s home-road splits?
jason
Randy Johnson wasn’t a good pitcher while he was in Seattle?!
As an aside, I’ve had the “pleasure” of meeting the guy. He had a nice five and a half year run with us. I think that he was so good for those years probably puts him in icon territory (to use a Boras term) to where it would be fine to deitize him. Plus, he’s one of the better pitchers of the last 25 years. But when we talk about putting guys in Edgar’s class, I really think that’s a tough calculation to make. Johnson was productive for a nice little run for us, and so much so that many will forget how ornery the dude was and enjoy what he did the M’s. I look at him and see a Diamondback, though. I think the Hall of Fame will agree with me, too.
I did overlook Johnson in the good pitcher comment, though. Mostly because I was so astounded that anyone would think Moyer is “great” at anything. Johnson is certainly the best pitcher we’ve ever had.
#3 said – second, I’m surprised nobody has mentioned that Houston and Atlanta are both NL teams, and Moyer hasn’t played in the NL since his days with the Cubs. So much of Moyers’ success comes from knowing the batters he’s facing (from years of facing him, studying video, charting other members of his rotation and what they throw when facing guys and how those guys react – given that’s a big part of your game, how do you come up to speed to do that against NL guys that you rarely have seen play, in mid-season, and be expected to contribute immediately from roation or bullpen? that, plus the humidity/weather factor mentioned in another thread (which affects not only the player, but the baseball itself and how it travels), is pretty significant.
Much of Moyer’s success isn’t predicated on familiarity with the hitters – just the opposite. The NL doesn’t have many pitchers like Jamie (neither does the AL, for that matter), but over the past 3 years, he’s put up stats like this:
NL ERA – 2.18 over 63 innings
AL ERA – 4.07 over 582.2 innings
He has absolutely befuddled the NL, shutting out 1/2 of the teams he has faced. I think he owns one of the best (if not THE best) interleague records/ERA since it began. Moyer would have been really good in the NL until teams got familiary with HIM.
I’m with DMZ on this one. meh….we got a bunch of minor league pitching fodder in return for a bunch of guys that weren’t going to help us out this season. The owners save some money which will go directly into their pockets (remember budgets don’t carry over from season to season in the M’s ownership fantasy world).
Judging from the lack of any sort of crowd at yesterday’s game ownership will pocket whatever they can this year.
Just remember that TINSTAAPP. There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect. I’d have been much happier with some minor league position players. It’s easier to predict major league success based on minor league numbers for position players. Then again maybe Bavasi knew he could get away with befuddling the masses by trading for a bunch of arms. If any of these guys makes a positive contribution to the team in the next 2 years I’ll be suprised….
Maybe he didn’t want to hit.
jason
Quick question….Dave slagged Neyer for his lack of knowledge about prospects when he appraised the M’s trade. I thought it was fairly well established that minor league numbers (given a decent sample size) are a fair indicator of major league success. IMO Neyer doesn’t have to have first hand knowledge of the prospects to lump them into general categories like A,B,C levels. All he has to do is look at the numbers.
Comments?
FWIW, Stark says that Atlanta “adamantly denied” that they had any deal for any starting pitcher…
Metz, even if you buy into the whole idea of TINSTAAP, I understood one of the lessons learned from that philosophy was that you need as much talented pitching in your system as you can get because you never know who is going to get hurt or develop into a usefull pitcher. TINSTAAP would suggest that you acquire as many arms as possible and hope that by sheer numbers some of them make it. Since the Mariners system is severly lacking arms, I’m very happy with what Bavasi did. We do have quite a few position prospects. Although most of them are middle infielders, they can easily be moved to other positions. Morse and Tui could easily play 3rd or a corner outfield spot. And Jones would probably make a fine center fielder. Combine that with Snelling, Choo, Betancourt, Cabrera, and Lopez and you have quite a bit of organizational depth. Plus if the team decides it needs more of a slugger type prospect it can spin one or more of those to a team who’s depth is in another area.
Quick question….Dave slagged Neyer for his lack of knowledge about prospects when he appraised the M’s trade. I thought it was fairly well established that minor league numbers (given a decent sample size) are a fair indicator of major league success. IMO Neyer doesn’t have to have first hand knowledge of the prospects to lump them into general categories like A,B,C levels. All he has to do is look at the numbers.
Comments?
I think some of Dave’s ire comes from a question I asked on a Rob Neyer chat about who is the better pitching prospect: King Felix or Brandon McCarthy. Neyer answered McCarthy, pretty much going by stats alone (although he also noted it had something to do with the fact that McCarthy had already made it to the majors, whatever that’s worth — apparently a lot to Neyer). Neyer has also been chiming in about how every prospect is a good one in his chats over the last few months. Anytime any player is mentioned (Stauffer, for example, from the Pads), he goes on to say how good a player said prospect is. His ability to discern the difference between classes of prospects seems iffy (or maybe he just wants to appease the masses when discussing prospects, who knows).
Just remember that TINSTAAPP. There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect. I’d have been much happier with some minor league position players.
Argh. Don’t take this personally, Metz, but this is just shallow thinking, and its perpetuated the statistical community like a plague.
The whole point of the lame TINSTAAPP theory is that, on a micro level, pitching prospects are very risky, so getting too excited about one is a bad idea. The concept is to acquire as many useful arms as possible and beat the attrition odds by sheer quantity. That’s exactly what the M’s did here. They added two more arms to the mix, acknowledged the risk/reward that comes along with young pitching, and realize that, by increasing the quantity of good arms in the system, they’re making it more likely that they get a major league pitcher out of the farm system.
And, what kind of position player prospects would you have liked them to acquire, exactly?
Catcher, where we already have Jeff Clement, Rob Johnson, and Rene Rivera at various levels?
First base, where Richie Sexson is locked up for another 3 years?
Middle infield, where we have so many young players in the organization that there is literally not room for them all to play?
Third base, where you have Adrian Beltre locked up for 4 more years?
Outfield? Reed, Snelling, Choo, Balentien, and Jones don’t satisfy your need for young OFs?
The organizations strength is clearly in young position players right now. Trading for more of them, just because you’re scared of pitching prospects, doesn’t make any sense. You still have to field a pitching staff, and unless you plan on acquiring 6 or 7 free agent pitchers at a ridiculously inflated rate, I’m not sure how you would plan on building a pitching staff.
The M’s got two guys who have, individually, a 30-40 percent chance of becoming regular members of the pitching staff. You get 10 of those guys, and you’re going to churn out 3-4 major league pitchers. Considering the M’s gave up nothing they should have wanted to carry on the major league roster next year, that’s a good deal.
We do have quite a few position prospects. Although most of them are middle infielders, they can easily be moved to other positions.
For the most part, isn’t it usually disadvantageous to move a middle infield-type bat to a corner spot? I think right now we have a big jumble of players with similar ability at the shortstop position (not including Lopez, whom I’m hoping really pans out as our second baseman since he has some pop in his bat). The glut in our middle infield is likely only going to be solved by throwing all the youngsters out and seeing who sticks (much like many organizations’ philosophies with pitchers). And Lopez and Betancourt would be at the top of my list for who to try out first. All the rest can play on our much maligned bench as far as I’m concerned. Broadening the bench with some young, cheap guys isn’t the worst way to go in my opinion. But I don’t think any of these guys are worthy corner players except maybe Jones with his power (although center field would be much more desirable). Certainly not Morse, though. Or Tui.
For the most part, isn’t it usually disadvantageous to move a middle infield-type bat to a corner spot?
First the Jamie Moyer hate, and now this. I’m starting to wonder if you’re just trolling.
Moyer isn’t coming back next year. He sealed that option by not taking one for the team and spending the last two months of the year in Houston. He can call his own shots with the 10/5 rights, and he has a ton of kids at home, and his wife is always pregnant so he has his reasons.
That being said a 43 year old starter is going to be of little help to us in the future.
…he has a ton of kids at home, and his wife is always pregnant so he has his reasons.
Are you jealous that’s he’s had sex six times? Or are you just proud to be a member of the Protestant Reformed Church, which successfully challenged the autocratic power of the Papacy in the mid-sixteenth century so that we can wear little rubber devices to prevent issue?
First the Jamie Moyer hate, and now this. I’m starting to wonder if you’re just trolling.
Not sure what you’re trying to say. I love the M’s. I’m just attempting to be realistic. What exactly does loving an almost but not quite washed up Jamie Moyer or being realistic about the talent levels of our middle infielders’ bats have to do with trolling? That’s just silly.
Bodhizefa,
For the most part, isn’t it usually disadvantageous to move a middle infield-type bat to a corner spot?
Only if they are a middle infield type bat. Betancourt and Cabrera are middle infield type bats, although good middle infield bats. They would be pluses at SS or 2B. Lopez falls into this category, and may even develop enough pop to be a quality 3B. Jones and Tui have the possibility of hitting enough to play anywhere on the field. You wouldn’t be hurt by turning them into an outfielder. Morse remains an enigma to me. I’m suprised by his high average, but maybe even more suprised by his lack of power (although he just did miss a home run to center the other day). I think you will see Morse’s average decline and his power increase as he grows older. I don’t know if he’d ever hit enough to play RF, but I think he could turn into a useful LF or 3B. Think someone like Corey Koskie, Joe Randa, Edgardo Alfonzo, Aubrey Huff, Reggie Sanders, or Brian Jordan. None of those guys are all-stars, but they all have been useful cogs on successfull teams. Of course, I might be shooting too high on my projections. I’m sure Dave or DMZ will set me straight.
[i]The concept is to acquire as many useful arms as possible and beat the attrition odds by sheer quantity. That’s exactly what the M’s did here.[/i]
While this shouldn’t be their #1 pitching strategy, this is certainly one of the tools to wind up with a few true MLB pitchers. Kiss a bunch of frogs, …
I agree that these were good deals, but not too exciting. It would have been cool to get something for Moyer. My main fear is that we might end up signing him to another year. He’s not as bad as I was afraid he was going to be, but we need to actually break in some of these 25 year olds we’re “seasoning” in AAA.
Someone mentioned something about moving Pinero, and I wouldn’t do that. I think he still has some recovering to do from his arm surgery. His value is at a low point now, we’re not winning this year anyway.
Think someone like Corey Koskie, Joe Randa, Edgardo Alfonzo, Aubrey Huff, Reggie Sanders, or Brian Jordan. None of those guys are all-stars, but they all have been useful cogs on successfull teams. Of course, I might be shooting too high on my projections. I’m sure Dave or DMZ will set me straight.
If Morse ever reaches any of these guys’ levels at their peak, I’d be fairly surprised. Especially with some of those guys being very good players (Huff, Sanders, Jordan in his prime). Although it appears Morse is growing into his frame in the power department as you track his minor league power numbers, he’s still only had one pretty good year in the minors. And scouts don’t exactly rave about the guy.
Also, Tui doesn’t excite me very much at this point. He’s done nothing to really deserve any rave reviews.
Dave…I know exactly what the M’s were trying to do by aquiring a bunch of “arms” for spare parts I just don’t consider it to be of earth shaking importance. Nor do I give Bavasi mucho kudos for this accomplishment. Overall it rates a blah, who cares on the importance scale.
I clearly remember that young pitching was the “strength” of the M’s organization not more than 2 years ago. Neither Gillick or Bavasi managed to turn that strength into anything of use by either trading some of it away or turning it into current performance.
What I see is Bavasi looking for power arms, which I’m all for if the arm comes with a track record of results. What I was hoping for was to pry at least one organizations top level prospect out of them.
What I was hoping for was to pry at least one organizations top level prospect out of them.
You weren’t going to get that absent Guardado being dealt.
Basically, the M’s picked up Pitching Prospect Lotto tickets. I can live with that, since we didn’t exactly lose anything replaceable, and we’rew pretty deificient on pitching prospects right now.
Bohizafa, meet my friend Gary Sheffield.
RE: Scooter
Did I miss something here? When did Pinero have surgery? I know his elbow was hurt but don’t recall surgery. Yesterday his mechanics were just awful!! His control was just awful!! Is he hurting or does he need a rebuild from the basics up and I don’t think any trade value is available for him. I have always liked Price as our pitching coach but what gives here??!!
Mechanics, schmantics…When are people going to start to realize that having bad mechanics is just an excuse on par with lazik surgery, batters eye, and a plethora of other excuses for “I stink and I don’t know why”.
Joel actually started pitching better yesterday once he decided to stop trying to trick every batter and start letting the ball go. Yes he got burnt for 2 runs after the disaster of innings 1&2 but I liked watching the Joel of innings 3&4 a lot more than 1&2. Frankly as abruptly as he was pulled yesterday I thought either injury or he got traded.
Simply put…it’s tough to be a good pitcher without good mechanics, but even good mechanics don’t make you a good pitcher and spending 2 years searching for good mechanics means you have no idea what the problem is and little chance of fixing it.
Re: 19
Small sample size for interleague play, and a little different scenario in that, if he even pitches against them during the season (if his turn in the rotation falls to them), they see him once that year. So I agree that them getting used to HIM is also a factor, but disagree that stats in interleague play are particularly useful in determining how a player would do on a sustained diet of ‘the other’ league.
Thanks Guy’s,
Thanks for your input this trading season. For the three or four day’s I spent here at my link with the baseball world. Yours is a labor of love and everyone can tell.
Thanks again Ernie.
42, ditto.
USSM rules.