In 2005, using the NLCD for instance, I know the Pirates didn’t have any, the Brewers used interns at home charting pitchers, and the Astros started off the year without it then resumed in June or so.

The end result, in the Pirates case, was an OF often playing out of position, playing too deep (almost no-double depth), and a hord of runners advancing on limited arm strength.

In all other well-constructed metrics, players aren’t going to impact each other’s ratings too much, except with discretionary plays (i.e. Andruw Jones taking all short pop-ups for the Braves instead of second basemen).

Such evidence appears in part 3 of US Patriot’s Win Shares analysis. So, thanks for the link, Dave.

This is incorrect. As Matthew notes, the field is cut up into zones of responsibility. For instance, if historically, CFs have caught 98 percent of balls hit to a specific spot in the field, than it can easily be assumed that ball is well within a normal CFs ability to convert it into an out. If Griffey, or whoever, can’t get to that ball and it falls for a hit, they’re penalized, and they should be.

The fact that Adam Dunn is an immobile oaf doesn’t have any bearing on Griffey’s zone of responsibility. UZR and PMR have done a great job of stripping out the effects of other fielders and the park on a player’s defensive numbers. The biggest hurdle, at this point, is ball in play distribution. But BIP distribution errors will generally pop up in the prism perspective looking at a player through many differenent lenses. Good luck finding numbers that don’t say that Griffey is abysmal defensively.

I know people are skeptical of defensive metrics, Terry, but they’re far more advanced than you appear to believe. And there’s significant reason to believe that Jr has lost enough range to be useful in the outfield, even in a corner.

Or something like that.

So really, if I understand these metrics, the fact that Pena and Dunn are horrible has to influence Griffey negatively…in essence those guys make centerfield play twice as big as it should. Please show me the light if im in the dark or overstating the weakness of these metrics.

I would argue with the assertion that Griffey really has no business putting on a glove any longer. He’d make a fine left fielder. Also, even if we’d have to agree to disagree on this point, he certainly could try his hand at first base.

Personally, if I was his agent, Id tell him to lobby for a trade to Baltimore, insist that he DH and probably guarantee at least another 4 years of that special shine on his bat.

Seriously, there’s no way Griffey’s not a terrible, awful center fielder anymore. His legs are gone. At this point, he should really DH.