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	<title>Comments on: Nightengale: M&#8217;s get new attitude</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: eponymous coward</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86972</link>
		<dc:creator>eponymous coward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86972</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The Mariners added $20M in contracts for 2006 during the off-season. I think sometimes weâ€™re so caught up in being frustrated about poor spending, we forget that these moves will make the team better. The only thing weâ€™ve lost since last year is 2/3 season of Winn.&lt;/i&gt;

Subbing in a below average DH at the plate (Everett) and a poor fielder (IbaÃ±ez) for Randy Winn does NOT make the team better. Some of the other moves do, but you don&#039;t improve 90 loss teams by downgrading positions. That&#039;s the most frustrating thing about the move- we weakened TWO positions, in effect (worse hitter at DH, worse fielding in LF).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The Mariners added $20M in contracts for 2006 during the off-season. I think sometimes weâ€™re so caught up in being frustrated about poor spending, we forget that these moves will make the team better. The only thing weâ€™ve lost since last year is 2/3 season of Winn.</i></p>
<p>Subbing in a below average DH at the plate (Everett) and a poor fielder (IbaÃ±ez) for Randy Winn does NOT make the team better. Some of the other moves do, but you don&#8217;t improve 90 loss teams by downgrading positions. That&#8217;s the most frustrating thing about the move- we weakened TWO positions, in effect (worse hitter at DH, worse fielding in LF).</p>
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		<title>By: Adam S</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86969</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86969</guid>
		<description>Jim, good points.

The Mariners added $20M in contracts for 2006 during the off-season.  I think sometimes we&#039;re so caught up in being frustrated about poor spending, we forget that these moves will make the team better.  The only thing we&#039;ve lost since last year is 2/3 season of Winn.

Sexson and Ibanez are the only players who had big years and are likely to regress.  The Mariners should be greatly improved at C; going from below replacement level to potential all-star could be 6 wins right there.  Washburn  and 3/4 of Felix is a big jump from Franklin, only 1/3 Felix, Sele, et al.  And as you noted the team is likely to improve at 3B, CF, RF, 2B, and SS.

Is it a playoff team, unlikely.  But 85 wins is certainly reasonable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, good points.</p>
<p>The Mariners added $20M in contracts for 2006 during the off-season.  I think sometimes we&#8217;re so caught up in being frustrated about poor spending, we forget that these moves will make the team better.  The only thing we&#8217;ve lost since last year is 2/3 season of Winn.</p>
<p>Sexson and Ibanez are the only players who had big years and are likely to regress.  The Mariners should be greatly improved at C; going from below replacement level to potential all-star could be 6 wins right there.  Washburn  and 3/4 of Felix is a big jump from Franklin, only 1/3 Felix, Sele, et al.  And as you noted the team is likely to improve at 3B, CF, RF, 2B, and SS.</p>
<p>Is it a playoff team, unlikely.  But 85 wins is certainly reasonable.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86962</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 04:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86962</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a little hard to wait until Opening Day because lets face it, even though we kind of have a general idea about how this team might do (around .500), this is one of those teams you really don&#039;t know about until they take the field.

They could be very good, very bad, or somewhere in the middle.

But if the M&#039;s have a horrible record this year, meaning around 90 losses, consider Bavasi and Hargrove toast.

A lot of us don&#039;t believe in Bavasi&#039;s plan yet but also remember this, I&#039;ve told this story many times on this board. Back in 2002, the Seahawks were not drawing fans to QWEST Field, and the fans were calling for the firing of Mike Holmgren and were ready to give up on players such as Matt Hasselbeck and Shaun Alexander.

And yet, when you look at this 2005 Seahawks team compared to 2002-2003, it&#039;s basically the same core of players only more mature and with a few extra pieces added on to it (i.e. Grant Winstrom, Jamie Sharper, Joe Juerivicius, etc.)

This is a team that now has its foundation in place with guys like Ichiro, Lopez, YuBet, King Felix, Richie, Adrian, Jeremy, Putz, Johjima, Soriano, etc.

But that&#039;s what they are right now, just a foundation.

A lot of these players I just listed still need time to grow and mature at playing in the MLB level and hopefully in the coming years more pieces will be added to this Mariners puzzle.

Even though this team went 68-94, they played in a lot of close games last year where they just couldn&#039;t get the big hit or the big pitch to go their way. But this team even with all the changes being made on and off the field did a good job competing in games, especially against teams like the Yankees, Angels, and Red Sox.

I can understand why Bavasi would bring in guys such as Carl Everett to have them be &quot;final pieces to the puzzle&quot;, the cold hard fact is though, this team probably isn&#039;t at that stage where you are at getting the final pieces of the puzzle to compete again, and even if they are, Bavasi (or whoever the GM of this team is next winter) will need to be more creative than Carl Everett. 

Look for this team to get to .500 this year while showing great signs of potential for next year.

Let the Seahawks have their moment in the sun for the next 3 to 5 years. Heck, you could find that the next 3-5 years could be the best ever in Seattle sports with the Seahawks constantly flirting with the Super Bowl every year and the second rise of the Seattle Marienrs happening before our eyes. Who knows, maybe some of the Seahawks SODO MOJO can rub onto us. After all, the two teams are only across the street from each other, and the M&#039;s will continue to spend $90-$100 million on payroll every year while some of their younger stars continue to get better.

Hey, if the Seahawks can go to a Super Bowl, I&#039;m sure we can let my broadcasting hero Dave Niehaus see at least 1 World Series before he&#039;s on life support!

GO M&#039;S!!!
GO HAWKS!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a little hard to wait until Opening Day because lets face it, even though we kind of have a general idea about how this team might do (around .500), this is one of those teams you really don&#8217;t know about until they take the field.</p>
<p>They could be very good, very bad, or somewhere in the middle.</p>
<p>But if the M&#8217;s have a horrible record this year, meaning around 90 losses, consider Bavasi and Hargrove toast.</p>
<p>A lot of us don&#8217;t believe in Bavasi&#8217;s plan yet but also remember this, I&#8217;ve told this story many times on this board. Back in 2002, the Seahawks were not drawing fans to QWEST Field, and the fans were calling for the firing of Mike Holmgren and were ready to give up on players such as Matt Hasselbeck and Shaun Alexander.</p>
<p>And yet, when you look at this 2005 Seahawks team compared to 2002-2003, it&#8217;s basically the same core of players only more mature and with a few extra pieces added on to it (i.e. Grant Winstrom, Jamie Sharper, Joe Juerivicius, etc.)</p>
<p>This is a team that now has its foundation in place with guys like Ichiro, Lopez, YuBet, King Felix, Richie, Adrian, Jeremy, Putz, Johjima, Soriano, etc.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s what they are right now, just a foundation.</p>
<p>A lot of these players I just listed still need time to grow and mature at playing in the MLB level and hopefully in the coming years more pieces will be added to this Mariners puzzle.</p>
<p>Even though this team went 68-94, they played in a lot of close games last year where they just couldn&#8217;t get the big hit or the big pitch to go their way. But this team even with all the changes being made on and off the field did a good job competing in games, especially against teams like the Yankees, Angels, and Red Sox.</p>
<p>I can understand why Bavasi would bring in guys such as Carl Everett to have them be &#8220;final pieces to the puzzle&#8221;, the cold hard fact is though, this team probably isn&#8217;t at that stage where you are at getting the final pieces of the puzzle to compete again, and even if they are, Bavasi (or whoever the GM of this team is next winter) will need to be more creative than Carl Everett. </p>
<p>Look for this team to get to .500 this year while showing great signs of potential for next year.</p>
<p>Let the Seahawks have their moment in the sun for the next 3 to 5 years. Heck, you could find that the next 3-5 years could be the best ever in Seattle sports with the Seahawks constantly flirting with the Super Bowl every year and the second rise of the Seattle Marienrs happening before our eyes. Who knows, maybe some of the Seahawks SODO MOJO can rub onto us. After all, the two teams are only across the street from each other, and the M&#8217;s will continue to spend $90-$100 million on payroll every year while some of their younger stars continue to get better.</p>
<p>Hey, if the Seahawks can go to a Super Bowl, I&#8217;m sure we can let my broadcasting hero Dave Niehaus see at least 1 World Series before he&#8217;s on life support!</p>
<p>GO M&#8217;S!!!<br />
GO HAWKS!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Thomsen</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86957</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Thomsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86957</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I share the &quot;new attitude&quot; stuff, but I think enough players will have passable or good years that the M&#039;s can be an 83-85-win team.  Remember, no matter how much we wail and gnash about Washburn, Meche, Bloomquist, Everett, et al:

â€” The M&#039;s have an awesome bullpen.
â€” Adrian Beltre and Jeremy Reed are highly likely to have a better 2006.
â€” Yu-Bet&#039;s glove.
â€” Anything Kenji Johjima does replaces the black offensive (and defensive) hole at catcher in &#039;05.
â€” Washburn isn&#039;t likely to be less than league-average in &#039;06.
â€” The King lives.
â€” Ichiro, period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I share the &#8220;new attitude&#8221; stuff, but I think enough players will have passable or good years that the M&#8217;s can be an 83-85-win team.  Remember, no matter how much we wail and gnash about Washburn, Meche, Bloomquist, Everett, et al:</p>
<p>â€” The M&#8217;s have an awesome bullpen.<br />
â€” Adrian Beltre and Jeremy Reed are highly likely to have a better 2006.<br />
â€” Yu-Bet&#8217;s glove.<br />
â€” Anything Kenji Johjima does replaces the black offensive (and defensive) hole at catcher in &#8216;05.<br />
â€” Washburn isn&#8217;t likely to be less than league-average in &#8216;06.<br />
â€” The King lives.<br />
â€” Ichiro, period.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86916</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86916</guid>
		<description>My guess is that Hargrove will be gone by August, and the M&#039;s will be buried in last place.

Should we start a pool?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess is that Hargrove will be gone by August, and the M&#8217;s will be buried in last place.</p>
<p>Should we start a pool?</p>
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		<title>By: John in NV</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86910</link>
		<dc:creator>John in NV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86910</guid>
		<description>&quot;Mariners started this?&quot;  Let&#039;s go back to Hawks of early &#039;80s.  That was a lot of excitement, too, while M&#039;s weren&#039;t drawing a whole lot of attention...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mariners started this?&#8221;  Let&#8217;s go back to Hawks of early &#8217;80s.  That was a lot of excitement, too, while M&#8217;s weren&#8217;t drawing a whole lot of attention&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: leetinsleyfanclub</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86901</link>
		<dc:creator>leetinsleyfanclub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86901</guid>
		<description>The M&#039;s ARE difficult to handicap.  On my optimistic days, I can see this team contending.  On my pessimistic days, I see them imploding and heads rolling.  I think it&#039;s very fragile.  The problem is, so much has to go right for them to be good.  Guys who had down years have to bounce back.  Guys who had good years have to do it again.  Guys who have potential have to step up. They have to stay healthy. Possible but certainly not probable.

As Bavasi says, based on the last two seasons it is difficult to be optimistic.  But if the Seahawks can go to the Superbowl....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The M&#8217;s ARE difficult to handicap.  On my optimistic days, I can see this team contending.  On my pessimistic days, I see them imploding and heads rolling.  I think it&#8217;s very fragile.  The problem is, so much has to go right for them to be good.  Guys who had down years have to bounce back.  Guys who had good years have to do it again.  Guys who have potential have to step up. They have to stay healthy. Possible but certainly not probable.</p>
<p>As Bavasi says, based on the last two seasons it is difficult to be optimistic.  But if the Seahawks can go to the Superbowl&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: mln</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86894</link>
		<dc:creator>mln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86894</guid>
		<description>â€œI loved our moves,â€ says closer Eddie Guardado, a clubhouse leader. â€œWe needed some attitude in that clubhouse, and we got it. Those guys are good players, but to me, that attitude they bring will be huge for us.â€

Word has it that Carl Everett and Jarrod Washburn also play a mean game of Texas Hold &#039;Em poker as well. Eddie should love that. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>â€œI loved our moves,â€ says closer Eddie Guardado, a clubhouse leader. â€œWe needed some attitude in that clubhouse, and we got it. Those guys are good players, but to me, that attitude they bring will be huge for us.â€</p>
<p>Word has it that Carl Everett and Jarrod Washburn also play a mean game of Texas Hold &#8216;Em poker as well. Eddie should love that. <img src='http://ussmariner.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86891</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86891</guid>
		<description>Hey, there&#039;s a new post for Frank Thomas stuff now. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, there&#8217;s a new post for Frank Thomas stuff now. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave in Palo Alto</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/01/25/nightengale-ms-get-new-attitude/comment-page-1/#comment-86885</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave in Palo Alto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 03:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=3284#comment-86885</guid>
		<description>It is just flat our &lt;em&gt;weird&lt;/em&gt; that Hargrove would be pining away for Churl Everett.  Maybe be intrigued, interested, amenable to giving it a shot, but &quot;really want[ing]&quot; him?  Nobody else seemed to even &lt;em&gt;want&lt;/em&gt; him, much less at the &quot;really&quot; level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is just flat our <em>weird</em> that Hargrove would be pining away for Churl Everett.  Maybe be intrigued, interested, amenable to giving it a shot, but &#8220;really want[ing]&#8221; him?  Nobody else seemed to even <em>want</em> him, much less at the &#8220;really&#8221; level.</p>
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