Times: M’s sign Ibanez to two-year, $11m extentsion
Just when you thought the fun had stopped in this merry-go-round offseason. Finnigan, reports The Mariners now get to enjoy the services of Ibanez through 2008. From the Seattle Times today:
Befitting his status as successor to Alvin Davis and Edgar Martinez as the soul of the Seattle team, the Mariners have given Raul Ibanez a contract extension.
A source said Thursday the club has signed the outfielder, who is in the final season of a three-year deal, for another two years at $11 million.
Good thing they locked him up for those prime age 35 and 36 years, before we find out this year if his legs and body will hold up at all, much less allow him to hit while plodding around in left field, doubles dropping around him.
Two problems:
- if you thought he was tough to trade now, and were hoping some contending team might pick him up to patch a DH/LF hole as they head to the playoffs… nope
- combined with Everett’s easily vesting 2007 option, this makes it real hard to bring Adam Jones up that year, or any other super-talented left-field option, if you know who I’m talking about and I think you do.
Comments
74 Responses to “Times: M’s sign Ibanez to two-year, $11m extentsion”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
USSM uses and recommends
Bavasi read what you said the other day…
“Ibanez’s contract is up after this year, so he’s likely to move back into the role of “free agentâ€.”
Then he laughed an evil laugh and said, “Oh yeah? I’ll show you who’s boss!”
But seriously…this makes me sad.
This is nuts. Are we talking about the Bizarro M’s? Please say yes.
This is nothing. Just wait till the end of the 2006 season, when the Mariners brass announces a 5-year contract extention for Bill Bavasi, Mike Hargrove, and best of all, Willie “Lifetime Mariner” Bloomquist.
The Mariners are now resembling the New York Knicks as they try to accumulate as many big contracts for aging mediocrities as possible.
Raul Ibanez is not Edgar Martinez version 2.0.
For the record, here are the 2006 salaries of all DHs:
CHW: Jim Thome $12.5M
KC: Mike Sweeney $11M
TEX: Phil Nevin $10M
BAL: Javy Lopez $8.5M
DET: Dmitri Young $8M
TB: Aubrey Huff* $6.75M
BOS: David Ortiz $6.5M
TOR: Shea Hillenbrand $5.8
SEA: Raul Ibanez $4.25M
MIN: Rondell White $3.25M
CLE: Travis Hafner $2.5M
NYY: Bernie Williams $1.5M + $1.5M in incentives
LAA: Juan Rivera $1.25M
OAK: Frank Thomas $500k + $2.5M in incentives
AVG: $5.64M (not counting incentives)
*If you believe Johnny Gomes will DH for Tampa, then the average is ~$5.2 M w/o incentives.
So, while DH is the easiest position to fill, the M’s will pay a slightly over league average amount to fill it for the next two years.
But will they get average production?
The Average DH hit .258/.336/.436. Raul’s career numbers? .283/.341/.460. “Outlook not so good.”
At least we’ll be able to replace him with Adam Dunn in 2009.
. . . I can’t _wait_ until Bill B.’s gone. He’s a great guy ‘n’ all, but talent moves like buying the anchor which is this contract extension give to Raul (’nother great guy, but) show such an utter lack of imagination, expectation, and ambition that I just can’t root for a team run according to that mindset. The Ms will accomplish and win exactly NOTHING while Bill B. runs them. That’s his track record, and deals like this show he’s still got his groove: loyal, feel-good mediocrity.
Befitting his status as successor to Alvin Davis and Edgar Martinez as the soul of the Seattle team, the Mariners have given Raul Ibanez a contract extension.
Hey, wait a minute… I thought Bloomquist was the heart and soul of the team….
Oh, okay, never mind. It just says “soul.” Bloomquist must be the heart, and Ibanez the soul. That’s got to be it.
(If it’s soul we want, why not do like in August of 2000 and bring in Barry White as PA announcer? …oh, wait, we’d have to bring him back from the grave… all right, then, maybe James Brown or somebody….)
Why oh why do the Mariners always do this? They do something good (like Johjima), then they gotta go ruin everything by doing something like this. Grrr….
Personally I wouldn’t mind another 2 years of Ibanez, but maybe at 1-2 million a year only. Plus I’d definitely have waited until later in the season to see how he does before giving him another extension.
I don’t think Bavasi’s loyalty is serving the Mariners well here. Maybe it’d be better to have someone totally ruthless who doesn’t care at all about personal allegience(sp?)…like me….hahaha….
#6: (If it’s soul we want, why not do like in August of 2000 and bring in Barry White as PA announcer? …oh, wait, we’d have to bring him back from the grave… all right, then, maybe James Brown or somebody….)
Isaac Hayes would do just fine.
Forest for the trees, forest for the trees… :`(
What bugs me about the situation is that I have no problem with Raul. I really like him as a player and appreciate his contributions over the last couple years. But moves like this make you go “wha???” and then you catch yourself almost starting to resent the guy, thinking of him as an albatross. It’s not Raul’s fault the club makes bad deals and he happens to be on the winning end of one of them (good for him for getting paid, by the way). Oh well. I will try to enjoy watching him play (read: hit) this year without thinking about the contract. What else can you do?
#10 exactly.
Lifetime contracts are never a good idea, just ask the Reds.
Wither Mike Cameron?
This is the kind of move that reinforces the idea that the Mariners are a money making machine first and a baseball team second. Raul Ibanez is good for the public image that the Mariners organization is trying to sell, and their desire to have a lovable face-of-the-organization takes precedent to any kind of rational performance analysis. Because he’s nice, well spoken, has a photogenic family, and a backstory they can sell to the extremely casual fan, he’s being elevated to fill the hole created when Edgar left.
This contract has nothing to do with what they think he’s going to do on the field. This is all about promoting a guy to a spot that they see as absolutely critical to continue marketing their product in the way that they have been.
This is not a baseball move. This is a P.R. move. And it sucks.
Dave,
I agree wholeheartedly. The P.R. motive explains why this deal happened in Spring Training and not later on in the season after Raul has shown whether or not he’ll continue to hit, run, etc. They want someone they can promote in a fan-friendly way as the ideal Mariner from Opening Day on. This move has Howard Lincoln all over it.
Also, I wonder what implications this has for Reed. Does this imply that they’re planning on moving him to create room for Jones? When Jones is ready, of course.
They like him. They really like him.
ok. Glass half full, Pollyanna mindset. um, Everett can always be relegated to the bench if he vests, and Raul can go back to DH-ing, so that Adam and Y-K-W can take over in the outfield.
Or, Everett could always spontaneously combust. Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It’s just not really widely reported.
Obviously, the M’s have learned nothing from their past mistakes. I had hoped that the Carl Everett signing had signaled the end of the marketing department’s ridiculous influence over baseball personnel decisions. Not! Around August when it becomes apparent that Raul is in steady decline, Bavasi (if he’s still around) will be scratching his head like he did when Edgar, Olerud, Boone, Aurilia, and Spiezio went into the tank.
But hey, don’t despair. Raul’s smiling face will look great on the billboard outside Safeco Field and in the Mariner Wive’s Cookbook. Yay!
Words fail me.
I’d really like to believe that it’s entirely a PR move so I could at least understand it. But, I think there’s also a large dose of cluelessness thrown in. I’m not so sure it ever crossed Bavasi’s mind that Raul could have a decline in performance over the next 3 years. Or, that he did an evaluation of younger, cheaper players coming up through the system who might need a position to play.
hey, does it mean anything that only Finnegan is reporting this?
oh, and Finny? Ibanez is of Cuban extraction, not Puerto Rican.
Would you really want to put Bonds in the field? I would think he’d only leave Frisco to DH.
This is nuts. As much as I like Ibanez’s steady production, it’s impossible for me to understand what a team with so many question marks gains by doing this — other than perpetuating the log-jam at the LF/DH position, or course. They need to keep their options open.
I disagree with the PR angle, though. After all, it’s not like fans are storming Safeco Field demanding that they sign Raul to an extension. Hell, the casual fans who might welcome the signing of a popular-but-average player probably didn’t even know that he was in the last year of his deal.
It’s sooooo much a PR move.
This is so…..expected.
For those of you who continue refusing to believe the M’s upper management is concerned with running a profitable business enterprise 1st and winning 2nd (and that primarily as a means to achieve goal 1), I don’t see how it can be spelled out any plainer. The trend of good business/bad baseball decisions continues unabated, as it will until Howard Lincoln is replaced with someone whose 1st priority is winning baseball.
I don’t think it’s a PR move at all. To the Mariners, this *is* a baseball move.
The Mariners LOVE Raul Ibanez. And, as a bonus, he represents exactly why they keep players like Gil Meche and Matt Thornton.
Raul Ibanez is both the “one that got away”, as well as the “Prodigal Son Returned”.
Back when he was coming up, I remember hearing about how Raul was the best “pure hitter” in the M’s system. He had a great left-handed swing, but just never got the results, never got the playing time under Lou (whose patience with kids was, um, legendary).
He goes off to KC, where he breaks out. Never mind that he didn’t go all Bonds or Pujols there, but he did play pretty well. This was the Raul that we though we had all along, how could we let him get away?
So, Raul was the top target of the Mariners in FA (enough that they gave up their draft choice), because he could undo that mistake. Plus, they love him as a person (and yes, I’ve heard nice things about the man). Plus, they expected he would be well suited to Safeco.
Now, think about their attitude towards Meche and Thornton. They are TERRIFIED of giving up on them too soon, only to see them blossom elsewhere (a la Scott Podsednick and Denny Stark) I even remember a comment here about how someone would hate to see Gil Meche go somewhere else and put it all together. And imaginge if Matt Thornton became the next Randy Johnson for someone else.
They love Raul, because they were able to get him back. The M’s are terrified of pulling another “Raul”.
What stupid, stupid move.
Every time I sorta start to think that Bavasi is a pretty smart guy (Petagine), he turns around and does something like this.
We need a new GM. We need Chris Antonetti.
Chris Antonetti wouldn’t have done this.
Chris Antonetti would have been fired for insubordination if he refused to sign this deal.
Perhaps Bavasi just wants to ensure that the team continues to suck for years after he gets fired at the end of this season, so he doesn’t seem so bad by comparison.
expletive, muttering…expletive…curses, rolling eyes and more expletives.
Despair is overwhelming me.
You know…I wanted to give Bavasi the benefit of the doubt however he continuously blunders along.
He himself accepts that the rapid fall of the Ms was due to aged players and despite knowing this, he keeps signing aged players to big, long contracts.
Is he on the A’s payroll?
Has everyone forgotten that athletic endeavors are best suited to young, strong and improving players?
“Chris Antonetti would have been fired for insubordination if he refused to sign this deal.”
Your right.
The M’s should fire Bavasi and hire Chris Antonetti.
Then, they should fire Howard Lincoln and hire Chris Antonetti.
Chuck Armstrong can take over LIncoln’s title as long as he never says or does anything.
The point that Ibanez is not a player that fans come to the park to see is certainly true, but you might want to wait until the M’s roll out their 2006 promotional campaign before dismissing the PR angle. With Ibanez essentially guaranteed a spot on the team for the next three years, look for the organization to place Ibanez front and center in all forms of media — television commercials, radio and print ads, team publications, newspaper stories (perhaps even one announcing the Ibanez Foundation), etc.
That said, the comparison with Edgar and Alvin Davis does not fit, as both became genuinely popular players before the team harnessed their images for marketing purposes. While Edgar needs no explanation, the appreciation of Davis gets lost somewhat over the years. Up until that time, the M’s roster had been as grim and dreary as the Kingdome, essentially a revolving door of AAAA refugees (Bruce Bochte, Leon Roberts) and veterans trying to hang on for one more year (Richie Zisk, Pat Putnam). But Davis was different. He was the first young player to make an impact, remain productive, and actually stay with the team. Sure, he was an All-Star in name only due to the one player per team rule, but he brought excitement and enthusiasm to a place where there had been none.
Through no fault of his own, however, Ibanez becomes the face of the franchise by default, as a decent player with broad appeal on a team lacking long-term, accessible players (Ichiro wants to be left alone, the M’s want Felix left alone, Sexson has enough trouble reading cue cards). But if Ibanez’s “popularity†seems too forced and calculated, please blame the organization, not Ibanez.
#29: look for the organization to place Ibanez front and center in all forms of media — television commercials, radio and print ads, team publications, newspaper stories (perhaps even one announcing the Ibanez Foundation), etc.
Should we expect to see Ibanez holding up a bat lamp sometime this season?
Uhhhh…
Uhhh….
Billy, yer killin me.
By way of intro, I’ve been visting this site for a year and a half and thoroughly enjoying it. I usually write on citizen involvement at http://www.paulloeb.org But baseball’s my prime distractive passion (my wife would say obsessive) and this is the first time I’ve posted.
What angers me is how throughly this constrains future options. Forget getting a good free agent bat for 2007 or 2008. Just imagine that we get slightly lucky and that Johjima performs as we hope. And Jeff Clement has a strong 2006 and is ready for the majors in 2007. Where do we put both?
Or suppose Doyle recovers and Adam Jones progresses. Same dilemma. We did have flexiblity to wait and take advantage of possible opportunities. Now we have far less, not even counting the likelihood of Ibanez declining from what was solid but not exceptional production to begin with.
Re: #28, good plan. And I think Chuck Armstrong will have no trouble following the same plan that has kept his position secure in the organization for years.
Hickey over at the PI blog (yes I know what reliable source the PI blog is) says that the contract has not yet been confirmed. (don’t ask me to link it, I’m terrible at links). The M’s say nothing will be announced today or over the weekend. So let’s all cross our fingers that this falls apart over the weekend.
Why in the world would this deal fall apart? Ibanez would be crazy not to take the money, and the M’s clearly want him signed.
from Hickey (possibly more reliable than the rest of the blog): “Both the Mariners and a source close to Ibanez’s agent, Ron Shapiro, said nothing had been completed by 9 a.m Friday. The Mariners reacted to the report by saying they did not have any statement to make and that there would be no announcement of any sort concerning Ibanez Friday. Club officials indicated there was little likelihood of an announcement during the weekend, either.”
Sure, he was an All-Star in name only due to the one player per team rule, but he brought excitement and enthusiasm to a place where there had been none.
AD only went to the All-Star game once- the year he won Rookie of the Year, and he deserved it that year.
He never really built on his resume past that, and had the early collapse that sometimes happens with players with “old player skills”, but he was a good hitter for a 5-6 year stretch. The stats look less impressive now that runs have been inflated in the 90’s and 00’s, but in context they are pretty good. You can make an argument that AD wasn’t too far behind Mattingly at the plate (defense and baserunning Mattingly wins, though, easy).
Back to Ibañez, now that I’ve found some words: the M’s seem bound and determined to be on the wrong side of Branch Rickey’s “better to trade a year early than a year late” aphorism for almost every fan favorite, whether it’s Raul, Bret, Dan, Edgar, or Jamie. How many times do they have to put their hand on the stove element before they realize it’s hot?
The trend of good business/bad baseball decisions continues unabated, as it will until Howard Lincoln is replaced with someone whose 1st priority is winning baseball.
Continual bad baseball decisions are unlikely to be the best way to make money. I sound like a broken record here, but there are over 800K empty seats in Safeco compared to 2001-2002 (and odds are good that will increase this year). Those fans aren’t coming back until there’s a winner, and certainly Lincoln knows that. At some point, people are going to stop watching or listening to bad baseball year in, year out, and that will have an effect once it’s time to renegotiating TV/radio deals as well.
I think this is a case where Raul is honestly perceived to be Edgar’s replacement at DH and as local icon, and that the team thinks he’ll keep producing (”Hey, Edgar played into his 40s!”), so it’s not like they are saying “let’s sign crappy baseball players and make money”.
It’s Finnigan I’m most disgusted with. Has anyone ever heard Ibanez described as the heart and soul of the team before this? Of course not. Finnigan is repeating as though it is an accepted fact a line that has clearly been fed to him by the organization. He’s not a reporter, he’s just an arm of the Mariners public relations department.
Ibanez has defied Pecota before. Lets hope he can do so again!
I had high hopes that Raul would be traded at the deadline for prospects to a contending team…..I guess that will not happen with another two years. Why don’t the M’s bring back Sand Frog? He might be as effective as Raul at age 36.
This is further confirmation for what I have been saying for a long time….the Mariners are more interested in creating the “perception” that they are doing something effective than actually being effective towards building a winning ball club.
I have become a fan of the A’s because they have creative management that is actively trying to make, and keep their ball club a winning
and competitive team. We should be so lucky to have the M’s be known as a winning and competitive team. Does anyone think the M’s can do any better than third this year in a best case scenario?
Also: Raul is the “soul” of a team that’s lost 90 games back to back- the first team to decline this badly in this short a time since the infamous 1915-1916 A’s, who deliberately blew up the team. Why is this a particularly valuable commodity?
Oh God, another terrible, unjustifiably bad decision. And, like so many others, I like Raul.
Where the hell was the impetus to lock up Raul for another two years? Who the hell else would have been vying for his services at the end of this season? Sure, someone might have been, but Raul would need to have a great 2006 for any other team in baseball to consider pitching this sort of contract to him, much less one that would be significantly higher.
This is like the Tigers throwing tens of millions at Maggli Ordonez when no other team in baseball had a real interest. If you’re only competing against yourself, you don’t need to be impetuous.
I don’t understand this at all.
First of all, I think Ibanez had his best years with the Royals.(surprise,surprise).
I like him, but he is NOT the soul of the team . After Edgar left, it has to be Jamie Moyer.
I expect him to hit .250 with 20 homeruns and 80 RBI
#38– Ibanez may not have been described as the ‘heart & soul’, but any personality piece about him since before he went to the Royals (and while in KC as well) has talked about him in glowing terms… just last week we got Mike Morse enthusing about working with him in the off-season: “It’s not only the workouts, the diet and all the physical stuff. But you benefit from being with Raul. He’s such a great guy. You can ask him anything, stuff you’d be too embarrassed to ask anyone else, personal stuff. Like you ask him what kind of shoes you should wear on the team plane, and he just tells you– no rolling eyes, no making you embarrassed.”
the way he idolized Edgar, the club may well hope that he can replace Edgar in a non-hitting sense
Funny, I don’t remember Edgar being much of a non-hitter.
I also think that the way the Seattle public idolized (and still idolizes) Edgar is deeply bound up in the fact that he was the Mariners’ most reliable hitter for about 12 years straight.
This signing is NOT for perception; anybody who thinks that is as batty as the Mariners front office.
It’s quite obvious, given the lack of real fan support for Ibanez (certainly nowhere near as much as it is for Bloomquist), and given the signing of Everett, that the front office (which may or may not include Bavasi) truly think that this is a good baseball signing.
This reeks of Frank Mattox and Chuck Armstrong, more than it does Lincoln.
Somewhat of a questionable move in my mind…I would have preffered they wait till midseason and then make a sign or trade assesment…That being said I think they made the move because they want to keep him and are worried his price would be higher after an inflated stat season of batting third and getting a lot of RBI’s… The problem with this move to me is that it doesnt have much upside…I think it will work out fine and he will produce to the level of 5.5 mill which isn’t a ton…but he could get hurt or falter and it could be a big mistake……Not the best move but I think there is about a 70% chance that it works out ok…As long as he still plays well this year he could still be traded in the future if the prospects progress…Lets say he has a 280-20+-100+ year and has 2 years left at 5.5 a year…he’s still quite tradeable
But can’t we all see how happy Raul is going to be with his new contract? Do sad, aging ballplayers with uncertain futures hit lots of home runs and come through in the clutch? No! Now that Raul has job security, Eddie’s pranks will work 10 times better to make him happy and generally improve the clubhouse atmosphere. And Carl Everett’s aggression therapy will be so much more effective on contract-extended Raul. Looser in the clubhouse, more aggresive on the field, what’s not to like about this deal?
*sigh* Another victory for intangibles over ration evaluation of likely future contributions.
This reeks of Frank Mattox and Chuck Armstrong, more than it does Lincoln.
I’m ignoring the rest of your rant, which is basically just steeped in ignorance. This part is just so off base that I feel like letting it slide would be folly.
Frank Mattox is the director of player development. You know what that means? He’s in charge of the farm system, assigning players to minor league affiliates, deciding who gets promoted when, and administrating the relationships between the Mariners and the minor league clubs.
You know how much impact he has on major league roster decisions? About as much as you and I do.
I know I’ve made it chic to take shots at Frank Mattox, but he’s just not a real part of the front office that makes trades or signings.
This gives me a tummy ache.
I’m from Oregon and since I follow the NL more I would consider myself a casual fan of the M’s. I do not think of Raul Ibanez ever. A lot of the Mariners fan base is not in the Seattle area and couldn’t care less if Ibanez is a nice guy. I’m not going to travel 220 miles to watch team that sucks. We used ride up on the train every year to watch them when they actually put some talent on the field. I think moves like this, especially if they backfire will hurt PR a lot more than help.
First of all, I think Ibanez had his best years with the Royals.(surprise,surprise).
Uh…not so much. Remember, Kansas City is a MUCH better park to hit in than Safeco. Objectively, he’s hitting better here than there, though it’s pretty close. Plus he now is hitting lefties that he was useless against in KC.
Also, according to Jeff at Lookout Landing, Ibannez actually has decent PECOTA projections through the length of his contract. He IS a late-maturing ballplayer, so I’d say it’s possible he could maintain his usefulness at DH.
The big problem I have is he effectively clogs up a position (DH or LF) where you could put a really OUTSTANDING hitter, especially when combined with Everett possibly being back in 2007, as DMZ pointed out. I also suspect it will lead to other Bad Things happening- like extensions to guys like Guardado (who Bavasi raves about), and Bloomquist being favored over Lopez (got to hear Bill Kreuger on KJR this morning saying how Bloomquist would be a great 2 hitter since he’s a candidate to develop the sort of OBP you need there, p[lus he’s a great baserunner, gritty, blah blah blah).
The more I see this management team, the more it convinces me that Bill Bavasi isn’t the right GM for a team that wants to win pennants. The farm system might crank out some players, which is the most fundamental level for success you need, but the problem is the roster decisions on the major league level sabotage that. Combined with a manager who clearly manages to the level of his roster talent (Hargrove)…it’s a recipe for a lot of 70-85 win seasons while the rest of the division blows by us.
Dave wrote:
If so, I hope the salary is counted as part of the marketing budget, and not the player payroll budget….
Dave, feel free to school me when I’m ignorant (which is often, apparently). However, I quite honestly thought Mattox’s title was director of player personnel, which means different things to me than player development.
But….how is this more of a PR move than, say, an overoptimistic assessment of capability combined with risk aversive behavior?
Gee, the M’s haven’t done a signing like this since, …
Danny Wilson’s last contract? That would seem very similar to me, overpaying and locking in an aging player.
w/r/t Pecota projections: Ibanez’s projections for those years are decent, sure, but they’re not good, and they’re certainly nowhere near worth what he’ll be making.
the AP say they are ‘working on it’: “The Seattle Mariners and outfielder Raul Ibanez on Friday said they have not agreed on a two-year contract extension for $11 million — yet. “We have not signed him and there’s no announcement pending,” team spokesman Tim Hevly told The Associated Press. After Friday’s team workout, Ibanez, 33, also said there’s been no agreement reached by his agent, Ron Shapiro, in negotiations with the Mariners, but he hinted one could be worked out soon. “I would say that things are going well and I’m optimistic,” he said.
#37
It’s so ironic that you brought up Branch Rickey’s famous “better to trade a player a year early than a year late” line. I recently saw an interview with Bavasi in which he made reference to this quote by Rickey, saying that his dad had always drilled into him how important timing was in signing and trading players. Looks like the juggernaut that is the M’s marketing department cannot only win over mindless casual fans but can also drive a seemingly intelligent man into a state of amnesia.
Wait, there’s a seemingly intelligent man in the Mariners front office?
#22 – A M E N.
Now, how do we keep attention focused on Howie Lincoln through this forthcoming disaster of baseball farce?
The inevitible firing of Bavasi will be no less a PR move than this gift to Raul. Howie Lincoln is the consistent problem. He’s the one ensuring our franchise is an entertainment business instead of a baseball club. It is Howard’s head we have to get before there will be any meaningful change to this organization.
AD only went to the All-Star game once- the year he won Rookie of the Year, and he deserved it that year.
I did not mean to suggest his All-Star selection was in the same category as Mike Sharperson or Scott Cooper, only to acknowledge that he was a good but not great player. Davis certainly had a very good year in 1984 (although to be fair, without the one player per team rule, Kent Hrbek probably takes his roster spot). The main point was that even though Alvin Davis was not a Murray or Clark, he was special – to the M’s. Invoking Alvin and Edgar to justify a bad contract is a bit distasteful, kind of like last year’s endless waving of the bloody “1995 Season 10th Anniversary†shirt.
Ibanez’s projections for those years are decent, sure, but they’re not good, and they’re certainly nowhere near worth what he’ll be making.
I don’t disagree, even if the market inflates some, and it’s going to create a position logjam, plus you’d really like to put a thumper in LF/DH if you can instead of a .350 OBP/.450 SLG guy if you can.
It becomes even MORE of a problem with a lineup with Everett/Bloomquist/Betancourt being out-tastic with a combined OBP not much over .300, which is something I fear, a lot. Add Beltre who thinks it’s 2002, 2003 or 2005 in that mix and…ugh. That’s the one thing that worries me about this offense is that it’s pretty short on anyone with plate discipline- Ibañez and Sexson and Reed are OK but not great (and I’m not completely sold on Ibañez holding up for an entire season in the field or for the length of the contract being discussed).
Looks like the juggernaut that is the M’s marketing department cannot only win over mindless casual fans but can also drive a seemingly intelligent man into a state of amnesia.
I don’t think it’s the “marketing” so much as the “intangibles”- which brings me back to back to back 90 loss seasons. For all Ibañez’s “intangibles”, he’s hasn’t been a regular on a team above .500. So… if Carl Everett gets points for being on a World Series champion and 6 out of 8 above .500 clubs…
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002820678_mari22.html
“Carl Everett is a winning player and a leader,” said general manager Bill Bavasi, who signed Everett to $3.4 million contract with a club option for 2007. “We needed winning players on the field and in the clubhouse.”
Indeed, while Everett has bounced around, he has landed with winners. Since leaving the New York Mets after the 1997 season and going to Houston, which he calls his favorite place to play, he has been on winning teams in six of the past eight seasons.
…doesn’t Ibañez LOSE points? Or is this one of those subjective factors you can ignore when it’s convenient for your argument?
From seattlemariners.com
Mariners log: Friday morning’s editions of The Seattle Times reported that a source said the Mariners had signed outfielder Ibanez to a two-year, $11 million contract extension, but there was no official announcement. A team spokesman said nothing had been finalized yet. …
Yet….Maybe there is still hope that this is nothing but a rumor
The Mariners signed C Jose Yepez, who played last year in the Northern League (independent) and before that in the Blue Jays system. Too bad he’s not an alternative to Ibanez.
Actually, his minor league stats are ugly, and he didn’t do much in the independent league either. Must be a helluva catcher. I remember being really excited by the big wave of indy guys- Madritsch, Randy Williams, Greg Jacobs. The only one who still has a chance to do anything is Sherrill, who is pretty cool.
Not crazy about the deal, but not sure I subscribe fully to the pipeline clog theory. It assumes Krazy Karl remains a lineup fixture, and I don’t make that assumption. I can easily see Karl going Aurelia on us and leave before his contract expires. Even the M’s wouldn’t block talent to keep him in the lineup (would they?). So far nobody’s accused Everett of being the heart and soul of the team.
Maybe the spleen.
You can live without a spleen!
Something to make you giggle: Finnigan writes in this article, “Although Ibanez tripled in the winning run in the Mariners’ playoff-clinching win in Anaheim at the end of the 2000 season, he was let go to free agency after that season.” This is factually incorrect, as David Bell’s HR in the 7th put the M’s up 3-2, and the Ibanez triple put the M’s up 5-2, which was the final score. Way to fact-check, Finn-dogg!
Re: #68
That’s the level of excellence we’ve come to expect from good ol’ Pocket Lint. Not only was his assertion factually incorrect, it’s logically irrelevant. Holy cow! Ibanez had a (semi-)clutch hit in a playoff-clinching win! How did we let this guy get away? Did I mention Willie tore it up for a couple of months his first season in the bigs? He’s indispensible! etc. etc.
Eponymous Coward: you can build nicely constructed arguments against it all you want (and you do a beautiful job of it, by the way), but how many examples do you need to see? I didn’t claim that Lincoln’s strategy of business 1, winning 2 was being successfully executed, only that it is the operating ethos. The management hires (Bavasi, Hargrove, Melvin) have been brought in because they won’t make waves, not because they have a demonstrated history of success. Is anyone really surprised that Bavasi’s (or Hargrove’s, or Melvin’s) performance has been mediocre at best, and right in line with his past performance?
So maybe just maybe an explanation for some of these bizarre contracts is under the table kickbacks. I won’t mention possible names. There are lots of possibilities and combinations. The Mariners do have some absentee ownership right? Who could be vulnerable to ????
Ibanez is a 5-tool player in the eyes of the FO:
Tool #1: Nice guy
Tool #2: Family guy (had his kid in his arms at press conf)
Tool #3: Former Mariner (prodigal son returns)
Tool #4: Good in commercials
Tool #5: Media friendly (accessible, won’t complain if team sucks)
Can’t wait for those Raul & Willie commercials!
I don’t doubt that the Ibanez offer/signing is 90% a PR move; that’s written all over it, with phrases hand-fed to their ‘outside’ PR guy, Finnegan, such as ’successor to Edgar’ only confirming the play. After two, ugly, 90-loss seasons, this offseason was, to be extremely kind, a wash, which in the circumstances where significant talent inflows are needed, makes it a failure. Some few may know that possible breakouts by YuBet, J-Lo, and a couple of others offer something to look forward to. The Ms are and should be worried about a serious attendance decline on the part of the ‘me-too’ fan—so a big media push of real or invented fan favorites is their tried and true solution. Enter Raul the Leader, stage right (ignore those FO handlers ill-concealed behind the curtain elbowing him toward the TV camera to sell, sell, sell, baby) . . .
Ughh. Raul, of course, wants to play, and would be a fool to turn down ten very large guaranteed. I don’t blame him for any of this, but.
And yes, Bill B. has a well-documented record of doing what his boss wants, even where that’s half-crazy. Go back to the Mo Vaughn signing in Anaheim, which he stated was dictated to him by his owner at the time. Several of the moves made in Bavasi’s first few months on the job were handed to him by the previous regime, too; he only did what he was told. I’ll take back a little of my screed against Bavasi accordingly in that I doubt that this was wholly of his doing. Bill has not, however, done enough with the acquisitions he’s free to make to make up for those handed down by the Ms brain(dead)trust. The shrewd, small moves, like the first acquisition of Villone, or picking up Bazardo, or the trade for Carvajal, speak well of the talent assessment team he has put in place. But the bigger deals he’s made just don’t aggregate enough talent.
#68– I think it’s been pretty well established this last week or so that if Finny has a fact-checker, he/she/it didn’t make the trek to Peoria.