Thursday Mariner fix
DMZ · March 16, 2006 at 9:00 am · Filed Under Mariners
PI: M’s beat the Royals. Ichiro said some things about the WBC that didn’t work out.
Times: Finnigan laments Heaverlo’s release.
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Anyone getting excited about the spring Lawton! is having?
FWIW, someone a week or so back opined that the translation of Ichiro’s statement about Korea wasn’t as dogmatic as the one being in the US reports…
It’s only going to matter if Lawton gets a chance to carry it into the regular season and since Everett has been balleyhooed by the M’s as the marquee left-handed sock acquistion, Ibanez is the new face of the organization, Reed plays great D, and Ichiro is Ichiro, he won’t be given the opportunity. He’ll just be another guy who will deteriorate sitting on Hargrove’s bench.
#2 — I have heard and read similar things. The actual Japanese spoken by Ichiro was more nuanced and qualified than what is being written in most wire reports.
When I saw a supposedly more nuanced translation, though, it was still pretty arrogant.
Anyone getting excited about the spring Lawton! is having?
A: it’s Small Sample Size Theatre,
b: The Cactus League is a hitter’s league,
C: he gets 10 days on the bench out of the chute.
So that would be “meh”. It’s nice that the bench options won’t suck as hard as the last few years, and if/when Everett or Ibanez goes down, we won’t be screwed for OF playing time- but I don’t think he’s any different as a player than he’s been the last few years based on a handful of spring training at-bats.
The only nuanced translation that works would’ve been if he had said “I want to beat South Korea so badly that the South Koreans won’t want to play Japan for another week and a half.” (full disclosure: I’m Korean-American
)
Who do you suppose Grover was talking about when he said this about the cuts:
“One might have been stunned,” Mariners manager Mike Hargrove said. “I don’t know if stunned is the right word, maybe surprised.”
It looks as if Washburn was effective in the Royals game. 4IP, 1 Hit, 3 SO, 2BB.
Would that every team was the Royals.
Japan and Korea have never really been the best of friends (though apparently it’s been really cool to be Korean in Japan the last few years). Japan is probably quite proud to be the preeminent Asian baseball power.
Though, Korea’s still undefeated, aren’t they? It’ll be a shame if Korea doesn’t win this whole thing. I’d almost prefer a single-elimination tournament after the first round.
Johnny Damon can’t throw. How’s that news?
I have a theory about Johnny Damon. I think he’s actually right handed.
I think this because he throws like a girl. Most guys, if they try to throw a baseball with their off-hand, will throw like a girl. It’s amazing. But Damon does it all the time. Maybe he should try the other hand.
#8
My guess is Oswaldo Navarro. He had been playing a lot and very well and receiving regular praise (along with Asdrubal Cabrera) from Hargrove for being two of the most pleasant surprises in camp.
#8
Maybe he meant Heaverlo? I was surprised to see that…though it is a sound decision.
Lawton’s spring looks good, but I’m not sure how much it matters. If he were hitting homeruns to get those numbers, we might be able to infer something, but he’s actually just hitting lots of doubles (9 hits, 6 doubles). That could just be the result of sloppy spring defense.
That said, I still think Lawton is a better choice for everyday DH than the SoDo MoFo.
I didn’t think Ichiro’s statement (nuanced version or not) was that outrageous; certainly not within the context of the ridiculous hyperbole that emmanates from sports and sports figures in general (Take away clichés and hyperbole from sports and you’d have a hard time telling if the sound was on). It did seem a little out of character for Ichiro in particular, but then again we hear so little from him it’s rather hard to know what his character actually is.
I did see a little of that game and he was pretty animated towards the end. I’d love to know what he yelled at his teammates in the duggout.
Ya think?
hey! Dayn Perry sez the AL West will be hotly contested!
Yeah, hotly contested by 2 or 3 teams. None of them are the Mariners.
That’s actually quite funny, and I like it, but I suspect the real issue is the nagging shoulder problems that will reportedly restrict him to DH/PH duties against Mexico tonight (otherwise this would be a good time for him to reveal his otherhandedness — but maybe he ambidextrously noodle-armed). Of course, it’s also possible he’s been progressively wrecking his shoulder by throwing like a girl…
Mariners atty Bart Waldman, from a the (Olympic) Peninsula Daily News:
That continues an oft-expressed theme of this winter and spring – conveyed sometimes overtly and often “nuanced”.
Coming into this off-season, the Mariners seem to have decided they needed more emotion. Hence, Everett becomes a prime target – Hargrove apparently specifically identified Everett as a guy to pursue – with Everett’s perceived “ferocity” being at least as important as (and probably more important than) his offensive potential. Washburn is signed in lieu of offering more money to land Millwood, because Washburn is perceived as fiery competitor. Bloomquist enters camp with a new contract and seriously regarded as a starter and valuable contributor because he is one of the guys who does provide continual intensity.
The Mariners continue to embrace the philosophy that performance can’t be reduced to numbers, and that intensity is an intangible that must be weighted as much as player skills when building a roster. As we have seen, the Mariners are willing to trade some level of skills for greater intensity. I suspect they see last year’s face plant as further validation of that philosophy, and one of the goals of this offseason was redressing that perceived flaw.
So now they have pushed that philosophy further to the fore this year. If the team performs significantly better this year, we will probably see intensity and “ferocity†continue to be ranked as highly by the Mariners as player skills and performance.
Intensity. Pfeh. They got it backwards.
Intesity is a helluva easier to teach than talent. Start with the basics. That’s talent. Trading that for intensity is going to guaruntee more seasons like last.
Speizio = intensity
Aurilia = ferocity
In other news, the Mariners scored an intangible run today…
…and the Mariner fans went wild.
Ichrio needs to keep his mouth shut and just play ball. He’s really starting to wear on my patience.
um, yeah.
Wait a minute, are you saying you don’t consider the Mariners’ lawyer to be authority on what they need to do to win?
I’m sure this has been asked before, but what are your thoughts on how Beltre’s performance in the WBC will translate into how he does for the M’s in 2006? I’m not expecting 40 plus homers, but 25 to 30 long balls with a higher batting average and more ribbies would be great.
Could someone get the PI a REAL TRANSLATOR?!
Pfft, Ichiro never said that.
Think before you speak Ichiro.
Truth? Is that you, Carl?
Nope. Does somebody else use this name? It’s pretty common?
Hee hee hee.
More exampples of the unfortunate fact that “fan” means “idiot” in the ol’ USA: we just saw two super-duper onee-run nail-biting games between Japan & Korea, both won by Korea due to a Game One unbelievable play (and solid pitching) and a Game Two key error (and a key hit and solid pitching) with a sayonara home run pulling foul with two outs. Of course, many of these fans are the same ones who have spent the past six months poo-pooing the entire WBC, so perhaps they missed the games themselves.
Meanwhile the talk by “fans” and [ack!] sportswriters: Ichiro’s one-time, poorly-translated and de-contextualized determination to win the games with worthy Asian rival Korea.
Now the USA team can enter the next round by beating Mexico, having been given a one-run victory by the Umpire. These things happen, of course, but it is nothing at all to be proud of: it should be Korea and Japan moving on, based on the level of play.
Yup!
Is there any chance Hargrove went with a 7-man bullpen because the 7th reliever was better than any bench choice he had? (Barring any “replacement-level” acquisition the team might have made.)
From what we’ve seen so far, Bloomquist/Morse/Lawton/Petagine/BU catcher would be the best bench we’ve had since Javier and McLemore.
And by the way, that Mariners lawyer is on the same page as Ichiro, as far as the team’s “lacking energy” is concerned.
Maybe Ichiro is looking to fire up the team, and is practicing his new line of smack talk on the Koreans.
Wait a minute, are you saying you don’t consider the Mariners’ lawyer to be authority on what they need to do to win?
I think it’s more like “he’s pretty likely to regurgitate the party line around the front office”.
Well, Ichiro did say the “F” word twice. In case you missed it, he said it to a fan that taunted him after failing to make a catch in the stands (at least I think so), and the second time he said it right after the last out was made (in the dugout) — this one I’m sure he said it because the camera was on him in a full head shot, and the news stations here kept repeating the image again and again. It will be interesting to see if Carl pisses off Ichiro and if Ichiro talks back… I wonder if Beltre would step in the middle?
I have never seen him so angry, which makes me wonder if he can tolerate another losing season w/ the M’s…..
It will be interesting to see if Carl pisses off Ichiro and if Ichiro talks back, I wonder if Beltre would step in the middle?
I have never seen Ichiro so angry, which makes me wonder if he can tolerate another losing season with the M’s
We’ll see what Carl says when Ichrio tries to bunt his way on with two outs and runners in scoring position.
It would sure be nice to see some of that fire when the season begins….
Re Waldman (team atty):
First, I think it’s pretty likely that Waldman was involved in some of the post-mortem discussions from last season. Walsman is also the main guy who negotiates contracts, so he should be getting briefed on paraemters for neogiations, which probably includes background on what the perceived value is for that player, which is important in knowing how hard you want to negotiate. He doesn’t need to be an authority on what they need to do to win, but he should be a credible source on what the FO motivations and goals are. By the smae token, he needn’t be just regurgitating the party line. I think his statements are a fair reflection of some of the Mariners 2005 season post-mortem.
As I state before, I think there’s a stong line of information that says the Mariners decided that bad “intangibles” were a signifcant factor in the team’s performace last year. It seems pretty clear that adressing that perceived lack of intensity was a key priority for this season, and the Mariners aggressively pursued players that they believe will bring those intangibles with them. The Mariners valued those intangibles sufficiently that they probably passed over or didn’t pursue opportunities to bring in a better hitter than Everett.
The Mariners didn’t “settle” on Everett because they thought there wasn’t anything better available. They took him because, having decided an elite bat wasn’t available for the price they were willing to pay, the saw Everett as a very attractive option. They don’t expect that he will produce at the plate in stellar fashion. They fully expect that will be offset by his cotnributions in the clubhouse.
I personally think that are deludcing themselves, but I also think it’s pretty clear that’s how the Mariners brain trust is appraoching this season. And from what I glean from my perch outside the organization, it appears the entire baseball side of the Mariners organization is in synch on this perspective.
I agree. Anything to help these boys figure out how to come through in the clutch. Anything to help them get more hits with runners in scoring position. Anything to help them win more games.
The only problem is that in the past two seasons the M’s have trumpeted other free agents as being “gamers” who bring intangibles and look where it got them. We were already given that line with Aurilia and Spiezio, veteran guys that were in decline just as the most recent acquistions are. The bottom line is performance on the field…the players they bring in have to perform to expectations or their perceived clubhouse value is cancelled out and they become a drain instead of a sparkplug.
The term “Mariners brain trust” at least deserves quotate marks around it, if not outright ridicule.
“Anything to help these boys figure out how to come through in the clutch. Anything to help them get more hits with runners in scoring position.”
Last year, the M’s hit .252 with no one on base. They hit .260 with runners in scoring position. Is there any chance that their inability to get hits with no one on base is related to their inability to get hits with runners in scoring position? All the character and want-to in the world only gets you so far.
I love **small sample theater** comments during spring training…. they represent the ultimate intellectually empty sarcasm….
If a couple good outings by an arm the M’s desparately need to have a good year or a hot week by a bench guy that could be a serious contributor can’t get you excited, then im not sure why you’d bother posting at all during spring training…. unless of course you’re trying to get nominated for the *Mr. Obvious award*….
Can you provide more information about this award? I think I have a real shot at it.
I think Terry self-nominated with that comment.
i’m on the nominating committee and hence am ineligible…
More exampples of the unfortunate fact that “fan†means “idiotâ€
You called?
Terry is an emeritus — after winning the award so many times, they put him on the committee to give others an opportunity. But we’re all still living in his shadow.
Well, it looks like Ichiro will get his shot at revenge. Mexico beats the US 2-1, so Japan advances and will take on Korea in the semifinals. Hm, A Japan vs Dominican Republic final would be good, but seeing Cuba get there against Korea wouldn’t be bad, either. I must say I’ve really liked the WBC so far.
Have to say I like the irony of A-Rod picking the US team over the Dominican team. For all his talk of patriotism, my sense is it was because he thought the US had a better chance to win. And this time the overdog lost.
There’s no better American League player than A-Rod, but I won’t forget his saying how he’d stick around if the Mariners were competitive and then walking. So there’s always an extra sweetness to me when his teams don’t make it.
If a couple good outings by an arm the M’s desparately need to have a good year or a hot week by a bench guy that could be a serious contributor can’t get you excited, then im not sure why you’d bother posting at all during spring training…
You mean like Aaron Sele last year?
Look, I have a big bunch of plate appearances to judge Lawton on: 5541 of them, to be precise. Why do I want to change an opinion based on a handful of ones in spring training with such huge caveats (and in a year with WBC, to boot)? He’s a decent 4th OF and reasonable starter if need be, the first time we’ve had OF depth since Mac, and arguably as good as Mac or Javier. If Hargrove was willing to use him like Lou used Mac or Javier, we’d be in great shape. The catch is that Ichiro, Ibañez and Everett are going to play every day unless they get hurt, and Reed SHOULD play every day unless he tanks. That, and Lawton’s going to end up out of the lineup for the first 10 games. All of this is going to limit his impact.
And yeah, I’m being realistic instead of starry eyed dreaming. Two 90 loss seasons and some real questionable offseason decisions will beat the optimism out of you. I’ll still be hoping we win.
I understand the pool structure, but does anybody else feel it’s kind of messed up that Japan plays Korea and Cuba plays DR again to get to the finals? This isn’t the NL vs the AL, and it would be a lot more interesting to see the asian teams playing the latin teams. I realize they don’t want to have Korea-Japan (or DR-Cuba) as the final game (though if you ask me that would be fine) but if they mixed it up we’d get to see two more games involving teams who haven’t played each other, vs just an escalated rehash of matchups we’ve already seen. The final of course will be interesting no matter what (though because I’ve been cheering DR and Japan the whole contest that’s the final I’d like to see).
If Cuba wins, there goes the White House photo op.
All the quarterfinal WBC games have been great. Each one has been decided by 1 run, with the game going down to the 9th Inning. If only the World Series and playoffs were so compelling.
The WBC reminds me of the NCAA tourney in many ways with most of the teams playing with passion, heart, and Willie Bloomquistian grit.
But this tiebreaker system has to go. It is so convoluted, it is ridiculous. The USA still could have qualified for the semifinals even if it lost by a 2-1 to Mexico AND if the USA had played 8 2/3 innings or more on defense.
And the brackets are screwy as well with Japan/Korea and the Dominican/Cuba playing each other again in the semifinals.
There was also some crazy scenario where Mexico could have advanced if they played 13 innings and then beat the US 3-0 (both sides had to go scoreless for 12 innings). Que the F?
ec, you bring up a good point. Hargrove won’t use Lawton because he has to use Ibanez, Everett, Ichiro, and Reed every day. But consider for a minute the theory Steve Nelson is positing. Perhaps the M’s acquired Everett not so much for his performance on the field, but for his clubhouse magic. (I had to pinch my nose when I typed that… a real trick). If this were the case, they wouldn’t actually have to trade him. He could hang his voodoo dolls in his locker, or whatever else he is going to do, and free up space for Hargrove to play Lawton.
–just a thought–
*******Why do I want to change an opinion based on a handful of ones in spring training with such huge caveats (and in a year with WBC, to boot)?***************
Uhhhhhhhhhh….because its like buying a lottery ticket…you know youre not going to win but its fun dreaming about what you’d do with the money until the cold reality of the real winning numbers brings your dreams craching down…
once again, if ya can’t have fun with spring training, why bother even dusting off your ballcap until april?
Sooo did anybody catch Mexico down the U.S. yesterday? I didn’t get a chance to watch it my self but after reading a few recaps apparently Davidson (the ump who blew the tag up call in the Japan vs. U.S. game)blew two more calls. This time at first base he reversed a Team Mexico homerun off the foul pole in to a ground rule double. He also called a US runner returning to first after a fly out safe when the replay showed he was out. Did any one else see this? Does anybody know if he’s going to ump anymore games? Is there any question why he’s not umping in the bigs anymore?
It’s odd how all of his mistakes favoured the US team.
“He also called a US runner returning to first after a fly out safe when the replay showed he was out.”
That was a really close call. If it wasn’t for the other calls, and his general attitude/mannerisms every time he had to make a call against the US, I would generally chalk that up to one of those calls that’s just too close to get right every time.
I hadn’t seen the “missed” call on the kill at first till this morning, but it has gotten BIG coverage today, since not only was it the same umpire making another key call in favor of a particular team, but the cameras got a wonderful shot of him smirking just afterwards in just the wrong way.
We can’t know what was in his mind, unless he tells someone who finks on him, but I actually do think (I’ve gone from 0% [reversal against Japan] to 3% [reversal of Team Mexico's obvious home run] to now 60% [bad call on the kill of one of Team USA's few baserunners, accompanied by evil-looking smirk] certainty on this) this guy was consciously attempting to boost Team USA, cheating, if he thought he could get away with it.
At best he is incompetent at the worst times, so get him the hell out of the WBC!