Comments on: Thiel on pitching prospects

By: Seth

Seth — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:27:54 +0000

You have to make some generalizations…if 50% of US pitchers got arm injuries, and only 20% of Latin pitchers, wouldn’t you want to avoid US pitchers all together? These statistics are completely fabricated, of course. I wonder if Looper’s observation has any basis in fact?

By: little joey

little joey — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:56:39 +0000

The more I think about it, the more I hate Pat Gillick. I’ve almost always forgiven his mistakes for the utopian 2001 season, when the Mariners did have a great farm system. But everyone in it was Woody’s legacy, and as often as he dumped young pitchers in the 90s, give Woodward credit for leaving something in the cupboard when he left.

But the M’s of today are basically a hangover from the Gillick years. It’s precisely because nothing came into the farm system between 2000 and 2003 that we have no pitching depth and do silly things, like signing Washburn.

A good general manager can put a winning team on the field AND keep an eye towards the future. We’ve never had one in Seattle.

I’m guessing that the end of the decade will be bleak in philadelphia-wait, they already have to watch ryan franklin.

By: Steve T

Steve T — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:30:23 +0000

I thought that piece missed the biggest points.

In the first half of the time period, 90-96, we actually drafted a TON of great pitching. They just never pitched for us. Specifically, going by their Baseball America top ten ratings, in 1992 we had three: Shawn Estes, Mike Hampton, and Derek Lowe. All three went on become top starters and All-Stars–over 5,000 IP between them, a total of 122 for us.

Estes was traded with Wilson Delgado for Saloman Torres. Bzzzt. Hampton was traded with Mike Felder for Eric Anthony. Bzzzzt. Derek Lowe was traded with Jason Varitek (!) for Heathcliff Slocumb (!!). BZZZZZT.

Taking back those three miserable trades alone would have put us well up on the other teams in our division. There’s also Dave Burba and Bill Swift (who was left off the list because BA never ranked him in the top ten, but he was very good), both of whom were traded for Kevin Mitchell.

These trades alone are enough to explain why a team with Griffey, Johnson, and A-Rod couldn’t win anything.

But that’s not the story the P-I decided to tell, which had lots of anecdotal guff about how kids don’t throw anymore, how kids were intimidated by the Kingdome, blah blah blah. The fact is, in the first half of the nineties, we DID draft well, we just threw the goods away. And in second half of the nineties, we drafted much more poorly, gaining only marginal starters like Ken Cloude, Gil Meche, and Joel Pineiro. And in the 2000s, we didn’t draft at all because Gillick gave all our picks away.

By: Churchill

Churchill — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:14:50 +0000

You can’t ignore one demographic, so not signing or drafting US kids is not an option. You just have to handle them differently.

And it’s not ALL US pitchers. And not ALL Latin and international pitchers throw a ton.

By: Seth

Seth — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:58:17 +0000

What I found interesting was this quote from Benny Looper: “U.S. kids these days don’t throw as much we used to (growing up),” he said. “We seem to see fewer arm injuries among Latin pitchers, who throw a lot.”

If that’s the case–why would you draft U.S. pitchers at all?

By: pdb

pdb — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:45:59 +0000

Too many Jasons….head about to asplode….but seriously, nice job on the prospect insider site, Jason (Churchill).

By: Churchill

Churchill — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:45:36 +0000

Of course I did. It’s a really great thing you guys do, and I was glad I was able to make it.

It won’t be long and I’ll be saying “USSMariner” on the air on a regular basis.

By: JMB

JMB — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:38:07 +0000

Jason was on KJR today, too. He even mentioned the gathering on Sunday when answering a question about Doyle…