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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts from the first two games</title>
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	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92647</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 03:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92647</guid>
		<description>Re:  the thread comments:

Putz - I totally agree, and thought so too.  That HR by Rivera was no surprise; somebody was going to tag him.  And Putz did this all last year, too.  Johjima seems too smart to call for all those four-seamers down the pipe; is it Putz---or Grover?  If JJ was a smarter man who attacked hitters with a plan, he&#039;s got closer stuff, but if he thinks at all its as a thrower.  Oh well.  

Soriano - Yeah, that was interesting, the way he was used specifically against the LA-LAs big hitters in the key situation.  But as said by others, they&#039;ll probably make an 8th inning guy out of Soriano when they&#039;re comfortable that he&#039;s comfortable with his arm.  But the dude looks _hairy_ on the mound.  [Just as a note, Dave, I&#039;m the guy in the purple shirt at the Schmoozefest who asked Bill B. whether Soriano would end up starting, but I had to cut out before the wrap-up.]

Reed - Yup.  Did that for much of last year, too.  Jeremy looks, to me, exactly like he did a year ago.  Watching his ABs, I couldn&#039;t tell what year it was.  

Beltre - Yup.  Seems totally lost at the plate, not only guessing but guessing wrong.  Yes, there _was_ an 88 mph fastball that went right by him down the middle of the plate.  Adrian doesn&#039;t protect the plate well, either.  And he&#039;s still pulling everything with a maximum swing when he does cut loose.  He can be totally pitched to, to get him to pull those medium  grounders to the left side of the infield, just like he did all last year, just like the Angels got him to do twice with men on base so far.  Beltre looks EXACTLY like he did a year ago, same pluses, same minuses.  That basket catch of the deep foul fly he made, though, was freakin&#039; awesome; I&#039;ve _never_ seen any 3Bman get that deep on a ball.  

Piniero - I didn&#039;t see the whole game, so it&#039;s interesting to hear from you, Dave, that he&#039;s ditched the four-seamer.  That seems like the good decision, though, as he wasn&#039;t locating it all that well last year.  Now, he tops out at 91 mph, expends a lot of pitches working the corners, and expects to get his outs off the curve and change, mostly from groundball outs.  If he&#039;s sharp, he gets some Ks, but he doesn&#039;t have any room to make mistakes, and can&#039;t walk anybody.  His control isn&#039;t quite as sharp as Radke, or say Moyer from the other side, that&#039;s the hitch in the plan.  Still, Joel can be a useful pitcher with that matrix.  He&#039;s going to hit his pitch count around the sixth inning every start, though, and he won&#039;t be throwing too many shutouts.  

Lopez and Betancourt hitting the other way - In principle I agree that hitting flare singles the other way is no great advance.  There is one residual positive in this that may pay some dividends.  The largest issue with both of these guys has been a lack of pitch recognition; they came to the plate with one plan, and used it for every pitch.  Drilling them to take the outside pitch the other way is disguised way of getting them to think &quot;different pitches, different approaches,&quot; and so to sharpen up their recognition not only of what the pitch is but what the pitcher&#039;s plan of attack against them is.  Yes, two years from now Lopez should be pulling doubles off the wall and Yubet lining triples like laserbeams gap to gap, and we&#039;ll see very few of these weak opposite field grounders through the infield.  But first the guys need to _think_ at the plate, to read the pitch they get so that they can get the pitch they want.  . . . Now, if only we could get the same message to Beltre, but the $75M earplugs he was given seem to have impeded the reception.  

Sherril closed tonight, Wednesday, so that answers the question.  Chaves at least wants him as the alternate closer when Eddie is unavailable (which after 41 heaves Tuesday night was the case).  I&#039;m hoping Sherril is the closer in &#039;07, and this may be his audition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  the thread comments:</p>
<p>Putz &#8211; I totally agree, and thought so too.  That HR by Rivera was no surprise; somebody was going to tag him.  And Putz did this all last year, too.  Johjima seems too smart to call for all those four-seamers down the pipe; is it Putz&#8212;or Grover?  If JJ was a smarter man who attacked hitters with a plan, he&#8217;s got closer stuff, but if he thinks at all its as a thrower.  Oh well.  </p>
<p>Soriano &#8211; Yeah, that was interesting, the way he was used specifically against the LA-LAs big hitters in the key situation.  But as said by others, they&#8217;ll probably make an 8th inning guy out of Soriano when they&#8217;re comfortable that he&#8217;s comfortable with his arm.  But the dude looks _hairy_ on the mound.  [Just as a note, Dave, I'm the guy in the purple shirt at the Schmoozefest who asked Bill B. whether Soriano would end up starting, but I had to cut out before the wrap-up.]</p>
<p>Reed &#8211; Yup.  Did that for much of last year, too.  Jeremy looks, to me, exactly like he did a year ago.  Watching his ABs, I couldn&#8217;t tell what year it was.  </p>
<p>Beltre &#8211; Yup.  Seems totally lost at the plate, not only guessing but guessing wrong.  Yes, there _was_ an 88 mph fastball that went right by him down the middle of the plate.  Adrian doesn&#8217;t protect the plate well, either.  And he&#8217;s still pulling everything with a maximum swing when he does cut loose.  He can be totally pitched to, to get him to pull those medium  grounders to the left side of the infield, just like he did all last year, just like the Angels got him to do twice with men on base so far.  Beltre looks EXACTLY like he did a year ago, same pluses, same minuses.  That basket catch of the deep foul fly he made, though, was freakin&#8217; awesome; I&#8217;ve _never_ seen any 3Bman get that deep on a ball.  </p>
<p>Piniero &#8211; I didn&#8217;t see the whole game, so it&#8217;s interesting to hear from you, Dave, that he&#8217;s ditched the four-seamer.  That seems like the good decision, though, as he wasn&#8217;t locating it all that well last year.  Now, he tops out at 91 mph, expends a lot of pitches working the corners, and expects to get his outs off the curve and change, mostly from groundball outs.  If he&#8217;s sharp, he gets some Ks, but he doesn&#8217;t have any room to make mistakes, and can&#8217;t walk anybody.  His control isn&#8217;t quite as sharp as Radke, or say Moyer from the other side, that&#8217;s the hitch in the plan.  Still, Joel can be a useful pitcher with that matrix.  He&#8217;s going to hit his pitch count around the sixth inning every start, though, and he won&#8217;t be throwing too many shutouts.  </p>
<p>Lopez and Betancourt hitting the other way &#8211; In principle I agree that hitting flare singles the other way is no great advance.  There is one residual positive in this that may pay some dividends.  The largest issue with both of these guys has been a lack of pitch recognition; they came to the plate with one plan, and used it for every pitch.  Drilling them to take the outside pitch the other way is disguised way of getting them to think &#8220;different pitches, different approaches,&#8221; and so to sharpen up their recognition not only of what the pitch is but what the pitcher&#8217;s plan of attack against them is.  Yes, two years from now Lopez should be pulling doubles off the wall and Yubet lining triples like laserbeams gap to gap, and we&#8217;ll see very few of these weak opposite field grounders through the infield.  But first the guys need to _think_ at the plate, to read the pitch they get so that they can get the pitch they want.  . . . Now, if only we could get the same message to Beltre, but the $75M earplugs he was given seem to have impeded the reception.  </p>
<p>Sherril closed tonight, Wednesday, so that answers the question.  Chaves at least wants him as the alternate closer when Eddie is unavailable (which after 41 heaves Tuesday night was the case).  I&#8217;m hoping Sherril is the closer in &#8216;07, and this may be his audition.</p>
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		<title>By: BelaXadux</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92643</link>
		<dc:creator>BelaXadux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 03:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92643</guid>
		<description>Joe-Jim is extremely impressive thus far.  Yes, he had one swing for one HR, and another for the other, but his most impressive at-bat might have been late Tuesday night when he singled in Beltre from 3B for an insurance run even through the Ms were already up by four at that point.  Kenji worked the count, got a decent but hittable breaking ball, stayed back on the pitch really well, had his head on the ball when he finally swung, and followed through cleanly to drive the pitch through the infield.  This man:  understands the strike zone, has pitch recognition, is on top of the game situation, knows how to hit, and has power when he gets his pitch.  Oh, and reputedly he walks a bunch too, though we haven&#039;t seen that yet; the league is still coming after him at the plate to see how his bat plays, one suspects

Johjima&#039;s assertiveness behind the plate has been remarked on, and while one can speak to that too much this team in particular could use some leadership on the field, yes.  More than that, though, Johjima&#039;s focus on plan-to-win not hope-to-win with every pitch brings some real energy that I hope some other players in the infield at least will feed off of.  Three games on, it&#039;s stone obvious why Ichiro personally made an effort to recruit the guy to come here.  Even after this few games, I&#039;m only reinforced in the view that Johjima is the best free agent signed by any team last offseason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe-Jim is extremely impressive thus far.  Yes, he had one swing for one HR, and another for the other, but his most impressive at-bat might have been late Tuesday night when he singled in Beltre from 3B for an insurance run even through the Ms were already up by four at that point.  Kenji worked the count, got a decent but hittable breaking ball, stayed back on the pitch really well, had his head on the ball when he finally swung, and followed through cleanly to drive the pitch through the infield.  This man:  understands the strike zone, has pitch recognition, is on top of the game situation, knows how to hit, and has power when he gets his pitch.  Oh, and reputedly he walks a bunch too, though we haven&#8217;t seen that yet; the league is still coming after him at the plate to see how his bat plays, one suspects</p>
<p>Johjima&#8217;s assertiveness behind the plate has been remarked on, and while one can speak to that too much this team in particular could use some leadership on the field, yes.  More than that, though, Johjima&#8217;s focus on plan-to-win not hope-to-win with every pitch brings some real energy that I hope some other players in the infield at least will feed off of.  Three games on, it&#8217;s stone obvious why Ichiro personally made an effort to recruit the guy to come here.  Even after this few games, I&#8217;m only reinforced in the view that Johjima is the best free agent signed by any team last offseason.</p>
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		<title>By: mikey2312</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92479</link>
		<dc:creator>mikey2312</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 23:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92479</guid>
		<description>The Mariners had a shot at winning both games.  The first game I completely blamed Hargrove for.  6th inning, Jeremy Reed comes up with the bases loaded (a career .200/.285/.273 vs. LH) and you don&#039;t pinch hit for him?  If it&#039;s the 3rd inning, fine but at this point you have to realize that you&#039;re potentially looking at the game right here.  You have an opportunity to win the game outright and you come away with nothing.

Joe Borchard should have been hitting there.  

Also, I&#039;m going to take this time to also add that Petagine should be the DH against RHPs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mariners had a shot at winning both games.  The first game I completely blamed Hargrove for.  6th inning, Jeremy Reed comes up with the bases loaded (a career .200/.285/.273 vs. LH) and you don&#8217;t pinch hit for him?  If it&#8217;s the 3rd inning, fine but at this point you have to realize that you&#8217;re potentially looking at the game right here.  You have an opportunity to win the game outright and you come away with nothing.</p>
<p>Joe Borchard should have been hitting there.  </p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m going to take this time to also add that Petagine should be the DH against RHPs!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve T</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92420</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92420</guid>
		<description>Seems to me it&#039;s the pitchers who&#039;ve been letting down the side, not the hitters. If you can call 1-1 after two games let down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me it&#8217;s the pitchers who&#8217;ve been letting down the side, not the hitters. If you can call 1-1 after two games let down.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92383</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92383</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The Mâ€™s played horribly in both, they were only saved in the 2nd by the Angels managing to be even worse.&lt;/em&gt;

Through two games, against two of the premier starting pitchers in the league, they hit .301/.363/.493.  They swung the bats well both days.  That&#039;s not playing horribly.  

&lt;em&gt;The lack of clutch hitting...&lt;/em&gt;

They&#039;re hitting .364/.462/.455 with runners on base.  That&#039;s not a lack of clutch hitting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The Mâ€™s played horribly in both, they were only saved in the 2nd by the Angels managing to be even worse.</em></p>
<p>Through two games, against two of the premier starting pitchers in the league, they hit .301/.363/.493.  They swung the bats well both days.  That&#8217;s not playing horribly.  </p>
<p><em>The lack of clutch hitting&#8230;</em></p>
<p>They&#8217;re hitting .364/.462/.455 with runners on base.  That&#8217;s not a lack of clutch hitting.</p>
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		<title>By: davepaisley</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92380</link>
		<dc:creator>davepaisley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92380</guid>
		<description>Question - where&#039;s the &quot;Hargrove may get fired&quot; sentiment coming from in the organization? Surely Bavasi hired him, so why would he get impatient and dump him now?

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I&#039;d love to see him go - he&#039;s as unimaginative and old skool as it gets, I just don&#039;t see where the impetus to fire him would come from within the organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question &#8211; where&#8217;s the &#8220;Hargrove may get fired&#8221; sentiment coming from in the organization? Surely Bavasi hired him, so why would he get impatient and dump him now?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I&#8217;d love to see him go &#8211; he&#8217;s as unimaginative and old skool as it gets, I just don&#8217;t see where the impetus to fire him would come from within the organization.</p>
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		<title>By: beckya57</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92379</link>
		<dc:creator>beckya57</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92379</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I understand your pleased attitude towards the first 2 games.  The M&#039;s played horribly in both, they were only saved in the 2nd by the Angels managing to be even worse.  The lack of clutch hitting (2 bases loaded, nobody out, nobody scores situations in the first 2 games!!) and the relief pitching (with the notable exception of Soriano) have been appalling.  I&#039;m at the point where I start swearing at the TV whenever Putz comes in.  You&#039;re right about his failure to mix up his pitches, but he&#039;s been failing to do that ever since he came up; somehow I doubt this is going to change at this point.  This team has some decent talent, but there&#039;s too much dead wood (I totally agree with you about Beltre), and it&#039;s poorly managed.  A .500 season is hoping for too much, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I understand your pleased attitude towards the first 2 games.  The M&#8217;s played horribly in both, they were only saved in the 2nd by the Angels managing to be even worse.  The lack of clutch hitting (2 bases loaded, nobody out, nobody scores situations in the first 2 games!!) and the relief pitching (with the notable exception of Soriano) have been appalling.  I&#8217;m at the point where I start swearing at the TV whenever Putz comes in.  You&#8217;re right about his failure to mix up his pitches, but he&#8217;s been failing to do that ever since he came up; somehow I doubt this is going to change at this point.  This team has some decent talent, but there&#8217;s too much dead wood (I totally agree with you about Beltre), and it&#8217;s poorly managed.  A .500 season is hoping for too much, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Mariner Fan in CO Exile</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92378</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariner Fan in CO Exile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92378</guid>
		<description>The M&#039;s games are starting to look like Colorado Rockies games (a scary thought since the first two offerings were played at Safeco).  Is the two-seamer really that key to turning around inconsistent pitchers, or are we looking at success prior to adjustment by AL hitters?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The M&#8217;s games are starting to look like Colorado Rockies games (a scary thought since the first two offerings were played at Safeco).  Is the two-seamer really that key to turning around inconsistent pitchers, or are we looking at success prior to adjustment by AL hitters?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Rust</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92377</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Rust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92377</guid>
		<description>If it&#039;s looks that counts, 6 feet, 8 inches of ballplayer sliding hard and headfirst into second looked pretty good.  Scary (both for defenders and home-team fans) but impressive nonetheless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s looks that counts, 6 feet, 8 inches of ballplayer sliding hard and headfirst into second looked pretty good.  Scary (both for defenders and home-team fans) but impressive nonetheless.</p>
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		<title>By: Theodore</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/comment-page-1/#comment-92376</link>
		<dc:creator>Theodore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/04/05/thoughts-from-the-first-two-games/#comment-92376</guid>
		<description>34.  LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>34.  LOL</p>
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