The day in Mariner
DMZ · April 27, 2006 at 1:14 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Good stuff in the Times notebook: Johjima was screwing around with pitch-calling late in the blowout to see if there was anything interesting to be learned. Yeaaaah.
Also, this great Hargrove quote:
Hargrove admitted he had set goals for the start of the season. But he refused to divulge them.
Said Hargrove: “I was told by [the Pacific Institute's] Lou Tice here in Seattle years ago when I was with Texas, one of the worst things you can do is make your goals public; it only adds pressure.”
An opposing view would be that making your goals known not only encourages you to fufill them, but allows accountability.
In the PI’s notebook, there’s talk of juggling the rotation (but not) and some generic Bloomquist love from Hargrove.
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I was interested to hear this aft. when Dave Andriesen was on KJR, that Andriesen had asked Hargrove if Willie was making it impossible to keep him out of the line-up, and that Hargrove repeated that his value lay in his utility role….
Andriesen also was unsure just who’d be hired if they made the (unlikely in his estimation) decision to fire Hargrove.
No place is immune to searches by bomb-sniffing dogs, including the Mariners’ clubhouse. The dogs rooted through the players’ lockers Wednesday afternoon…
Suuuuuuuuure they were sniffing for bombs.
That bit about Johjima was really interesting… in my mind, that is exactly the mindset that the entire organization should have right now.
That mindset is why you let Reed hit lefties, for example.
A funny thing often happens when you make a decision to play and build for the long term… you often accidently get better in the short term. This is not all that rare, because there is something freeing about letting yourself play unconventionally.
I have to agree with #3 in regards to the Johjima section of the article. I read that and immediately thought that it was an amazing thought and it really demonstrated his overall mindset.
There’s an argument to be made that this is a major truth about MLB executives and management in general…
It’s weird to me to see that the corporate culture in Bouton’s Ball Four is pretty much still the same as it ever was.
I’m stoked to see thah Johjima is willing to eat a few runs to get a winning advantage later.
I wonder if one of Hargrove’s goals is “don’t get fired.”
Clearly one of Hargrove’s goals was to platoon Reed with Bloomquist.
I think what Johjima did is incredible. Too bad it had to be during Bobby’s first outing, but still, that’s pretty sweet.
As for Hargrove’s goal: becoming the first male member of the Red Hat Society. Playing Bloomquist gets him on their good side.
Clearly one of Hargrove’s goals was to platoon Reed with Bloomquist.
That explains why he won’t tell us.
I like Johjima’s idea. If the game is lost anyway, it doesn’t matter if you give up an extra 20 runs. I’ve seen curlers do this when they’re badly behind – they’ll try to learn about about the sheet of ice for later rounds (leading teams can’t do this, because the losing team can concede).
The Johjima thing is interesting. I wonder, though, whether once word gets out, smart hitters might try to defeat this strategy by intentionally not making good contact with those “probing” pitches.
Then again, 99% of major league hitters are probably (a) not that smart and/or (b) too concerned with their personal stats to play that kind of game.
Suuuuuuuuure they were sniffing for bombs.
Maybe bongs?
*no, that isn’t an accusation or insinuation*
From the PI notebook:
“[Felix is] winless so far (0-3) with a 4.57 ERA, but with his combination of power and off-speed pitches, he remains a pitcher the Mariners have high hopes for.”
I don’t kniow if this characterization is more hillarious or depressing (with regard to the level of analysis in the paper).
I’ve keep mumbling that look-to-the-future thing, but the front office and Hargrove have other priorities, namely, keeping their fans and keeping his job, respectively.
As far as hitters being clever (#10) and giving up an out, I remember something Lou Piniella said he did. Early in a game, with no runners on, Lou would intentionally make and out on a pitch that he really liked, so that he could be sure to see it again later, hopefully with ducks on the pond. That’s clever.
Oops, that should be “make an out on a pitch”
Almost completely OT (only considered related if we are talking generally about baseball articles online):
Dave, or anyone, can you say much about Stephen Kahn? He gets a complementary paragraph at BP today, and the search box hasn’t made it to the new server so I can’t see if you’ve written some things in the past:
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5015
Also, Dave Studeman gets a nice dig on Dave for using his “Ten Things I Didn’t Know” format:
Frequently imitated but never duplicated…
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ten-things-i-didnt-know-last-week22/
I guess Grover wasn’t too impressed. Creativity (and winning) are apparently not important to him.
I love what Johjima did so he could learn more for future games, I just wish he wouldn’t have told anyone about it! Never announce your game plan!
New Future Forty coming next week – Kahn (and Lowe) will be written about extensively.
And Studes wasn’t taking a shot – he just likes linking to USSM. He does it all the time. I think he might need some kind of therapy.
Still no fix of the errant “Doyle” mention in the Outages post.
I’m just sayin’…
Dave,
Cool. I’m excited to read about a possibly interesting arm. I hope there is something to his hot start.
I meant “dig” as in a friendly way.
Johjima’s idea is clever, sure, but I doubt the young guys in the pen, trying to establish a career while mopping up, appreciate his stunt. In union-speak, he “stealing bread from their table.” I suspect that has something to do with why “it’s just not done” in the bigs.
If it wins games they shouldn’t care.
It should improve their ERAs in the long run.
21 – there is also the possibility that that is exactly why he said it… to protect the young pitchers that got rocked.
In a “don’t blame them” kind of way. Who knows, maybe he didn’t even do it and just wanted to take heat off them.
If Johjima’s that smart, I worry that he’s going to get frustrated real fast being on this team. Imagine Johjima, a thinking man stuck in the Mariner clubhouse: he’s got Guardado in one ear asking for help with a 3-man lift, and C-Rex in the other ear asking him if they believe in dinosaurs in Japan. He’s like the guy in that TV commercial who needs a new job because he works with a bunch of monkeys.
Oh damn, that was funny.
Kahn was mentioned particularly by NormNorm in his (very brief) mention of going from Appletton to San Bernadino…
This whole Johjima trial-a-pitch thing is a mountain out of a molehill. Let’s say the “book” says Plaer X kills high cheese. So Johjima decides to see if that’s true, calls for a high fastball and Player X swings and misses. So he repeats it and gets away with another fastball. Did he learn anything, or did he just get lucky?
#9–Evan–Referred to curling which is exactly what I was thinking Wednesday afternoon when FSN replayed Tuesday night’s blowout by the Sox. Curling would hve been a better programming choice.
sometimes giving one to a player where he likes it but doesn’t expect it works wonders… very machiavellian.
i went to the Pacific Institute for a week-long leadership conference and had a wonderfully informative and interesting time. Lou came and spent an a couple hours with our particular group of about 10. It was a fantastic experience for a guy fresh out of college. I also ended up sitting next to Jim Lambright at lunch. He picked up our table’s tab, a wonderful gesture by the at-the-time recently fired coach.
Nick – I doubt he was looking for anything as binary as get a hit/not get a hit. he could have been looking for pitch recognition or elements of the swing or half a dozen things that he knows about and I don’t.
Or not, I don’t know.
Reed has simply sucked against lefties so far in the bigs. That being said though, I too find it dissapointing that Reed isn’t getting a chance to earn his stipes agaist lefties. On a bright note, it’s diminishing Reed’s trade value.
John in La-La, yeah, I expect that’s what Joe-Jim was checking out, pitch recognition, and what kind of swing the buy put on the pitch. I liked the idea, but more than that, I really _loved_ the broader thinking and committed professionalism it implies. It’s great to think some guys play the game with more than hustle and rah-rah and a dash of video, that they bring their brains to work. There’s so much to study on the field in this sport, and Kenji gets that.
Lou Tice? You’ve got to be kidding me. The guy’s a total scam artist.
The M’s are in worse shape than I thought…
Re: #25 — However we feel about the C.E. signing, it would make for a more inclusive atmosphere (in the USSM community) if posters avoid using “monkeys” as a metaphor when discussing an African-American player. Not only is it bad form, but that sort of thing really does lead to hurt feelings in large, fairly anonymous communities like ours, even if it’s not intended.
33 – Me too. Like the way Edgar studied hitting. Or Moyer’s book.
35 – I don’t really think that referencing a specific Superbowl commericial is inappropriate or bad form. It didn’t even occur to me, as the reader, to make that correlation. For one thing it was Everett AND Guardado, who is not black, and, lest some say they are both minorities, the non-monkey in the analogy is yet a third minority.
So if Zero was trying to sneak in a racial barb it was an incredibly confused one.
I would bet heavily that the author never got within ten yards of making the connection you did. And I think anyone reading it should reasonably assume that he did not.
W/R/T the batter who purposely looks clueless on a pitch he can handle, in hopes that he’ll get that pitch later, is a strategy that is at least fifty years old. I remember reading about it (Mantle? Mays?) in the fifties.
#37- This is Beltre’s plan, obviously. How could we have been so blind?! Beltre is laying low, biding his time, until the entire AL thinks they have him figured out.
“Beltre?” They’ll say with a grin, “he couldn’t hit a fastball if I grooved one down the middle of the plate. Who cares if the winning run is at second?”
Genius, Beltre. One question, though, when do we put the fun part of this plan into action?
Beltre really likes the low and away pitch. He can hit to the right field corner for extra bases….just biding his time
The bomb squad must have been for Everett only…. Bavasi prolly has figured out C-Rex kinda sucks, and he cant trade him just hope he brought something to work…. brilliant!
29 – Re: Curling
I’m Canadian. Curling is the second most popular televised sport up here.
#36 — Your point is well taken that it’s highly unlikely #25 was meant as a racial barb. It would be bad form, on my part, to jump to conclusions about intentions, especially regarding a topic that easily can lead to unneccessary divisiveness instead of improved community atmosphere (the goal). In this case, the press is perhaps the main player when it comes to pushing broad narratives of Johjima as smart, and even if they don’t pencil in C.E. and Guardado in contrast, ads like the Super Bowl give a template for doing so. I’m just saying that, as critical readers, we should pause to think before using that template. A monkey is still a monkey whether in a zoo, a jungle, or a Super Bowl ad — and using it as a metaphor for an African-American player still fits (albeit unintentionally) into a long history of racial language. Next time just use Grover (assuming he still has the job the next time a reference involving monkeys seems like a good idea), especially when the day’s papers include such perfect fodder as the Lou Tice comment.
it was an off-day yesterday — Finnigan thinks the pitching looks hopeful, Andriesen talks with & about Pentland, Thiel sez don’t give up on Eddie as LaRue also takes a look at him and at closers, and Gregg Bell of the AP does a summary thus far…
Igor206 – just curious if you have seen the Super Bowl ad that was referenced?
#44 — No, I haven’t…
29, 41: I’m not Canadian, but curling rocks (pun intended). There’s a curling club here in Seattle, and they have an open house once or twice a year (you have to join to use it otherwise) and it’s FUN. Fun to watch, too. We’re addicts in our house.
I have a friend who was playing the curling part of his nerdy Olympics Nintendo game on an airplane once and just about crippled with wonderment the Canadian sitting next to him, that there could be such a thing.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8669142867840813798&q=career+builder&pl=true
The video above is the commercial in question. The commercial shows the one guy smarter than the monkeys he works with – which are, in fact, actual monkeys. The reference made in the post above was a knock on all the players on the team being inferior, intelectually, to Johjima. No racial connotations at all. Simply the reference of a tv commercial – with actual monkeys – that shows one person (Johjima) feeling out of place among the other people in the group (the rest of the Mariner players).
Zero Gravitas was clearly including every member of the team other than Johjima, under the rubrik “monkeys” so it’s a logically falacious reading to interpret it as a comment about the race of any particular member of the team. End of story.
And I pity any athelete blessed with intellect. In all major professional sports the players, fans, and media tend to exhibit the unfortunate American tendency towards anti-intellectualism on a regular basis. That’s what’s so great about USSM, in fact — it’s an all-too-rare forum for clear thought and rational argument in the world of sports fandom. I think Zero’s comment is dead on.
Is Lou Tice also a consultant for the Bush administration?
Hargrove is obviously on the hot seat and is feeling it right now. Whether he knows it or not, he can’t really put any further pressure on himself. The situation is already at boiling point.
#47 — Thanks for the link. From post #25, I assumed that the commercial had actual monkeys, and that these monkeys were serving as metaphors for the presumably intellectually inferior Everett. I guess the image just struck me as dehumanizing somehow, and enough in sync with prevailing discourses of race that it might hurt some readers’ feelings. Nevertheless, I want to clarify that I really love reading most of the discussions here, and I’m extremely thankful for having such a quality place to turn for info & analysis on the team.
#47– and, fwiw, in this year’s SuperBowl ad (continuing the theme they company has used the last couple of years) the guy is on the phone with a woman who is obviously working with a bunch of jackasses…
#48 — How do we really know that Johjima is “blessed with intellect,” other than profiles like the one in yesterday’s Times? Jumping on the Johjima-is-smart bandwagon based on media profiles doesn’t seem that different than the whole fiasco of WFB. Instead of limiting our social scientific thinking to sabermetrics and econ, why not keep an eye on culture & history as well when it comes to sensitivity & community-building?
That’s a good article about Pentland. Here’s hoping he can keep at it and help turn things around. He seems like a good guy.
Thank you, that’ll be all for today’s lesson in cultural sensitivity, thank you.
If we are really concerned about being culturally sensitive, I feel obligated to point out, as an anthropologist, that those animals in the commercial are apes, not monkeys.
I realize the misnomer was probably entirely unintentional, but it’s that sort of ignorance that invariably contributes to the endless cycle of primate prejudice in this country.
Yes, on behalf of the entire USSM community, I apologize to any apes who may be reading.
It’s a change of subject, but I haven’t been able to see many games lately due to other commitments. Looking at his numbers online, I’m wondering what’s been going on with Sexson?
His average is down compared to last year at this time, and I don’t see him hitting for much power either (how long since his last HR?). Is he really struggling, or is it just a matter of running into some good pitching?
Or maybe it’s the monkeys who deserve the apology. Hell, might as well apologize for my own lack of awareness on this topic, too.
I bought my girlfriend a drink called a “Purple Monkey” at the bar last night. Do I need to apologize for that?
It’s a change of subject, but I haven’t been able to see many games lately due to other commitments. Looking at his numbers online, I’m wondering what’s been going on with Sexson?
[Steve_Kelley]
It’s clear that Sexson is a free-agent bust. Remember when we had Tino Martinez? We never should have traded him away. He could do a lot to help this team.
[/Steve_Kelley]
[KJR_caller]
Why do we continue to play Sexson? When is Willie Bloomquist going to become our full-time first baseman?
[/KJR_caller]
http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/sportsnation/coach?coachId=40
Hargrove approval rating. Vote.
#60: Tino? (retired), Willie at 1st? (great spot for a guy with no power!) That’s why I get frustrated listening to KJR sometimes….
I wouldn’t say Sexson is a “bust”, he had a very good year last year. I think he did exactly what we signed him to do. I’m just curious about his apparently slow start in 2006.
If you guys are offending anyone, it’s non-primate lifeforms. Your primateocentric discussions show your clear disdain for ecodiversity.
I think it’s time you apologize to the three domains of Bacteria, Archea, and Eukarya. And twice to the kingdom Protista, unless you want the Algae Rights League covering your front doorstep.
His average is down compared to last year at this time, and I don’t see him hitting for much power either (how long since his last HR?). Is he really struggling, or is it just a matter of running into some good pitching?
One way I like to look at this is checking how many hits is he away from hitting for what we might expect. If you give him 4 more hits in his 85 ABs, his average would be .270, right in line with his career average.
If those 4 hits are all singles, then his SLG only goes up to .424, well below his SLG from last year. He’s about 14 total bases short of what it would take to get his SLG to last year’s .541.
Basically, his average doesn’t seem like anything to worry about at all, but his power does seem to be down. Of course, if he goes off and hits 3-4 HR next week with a reasonable average, his season-to-date could fall just about right on last year’s numbers. So just based on the numbers, I’d say it’s still a bit too early to say he’s really struggling.
#64: Excellent breakdown of his performance compared to last years!
I hadn’t ever thought about it that way before, but it makes sense.. Thank you!
Hopefully we’ll see more HR’s, and less strikeouts on this road trip!
I saw those Geico commercials where those cavemen are offended when they say switching to Geico is so easy even a caveman could do it. Don’t remeber the Superbowl ad, guess I was too pissed about the referees to pay attention.
“I’ll have the roast duck, with the mango salsa”.. “and for you sir?”.. “I don’t have much of an appetite, thank you..” LOL!
I actually blame Richie’s slow start on what has been some universally terrible umpiring so far this season. Since Richie’s such a patient hitter, and he already gets victimised by umps calling low strikes when they forget that he’s 40 oxen tall, this really hurts him.
And if I’m allowed to call a white guy a monkey, I’m allowed to call a black guy a monkey.
“40 oxen tall” – a reference to this year’s ad campaign?
In the games I have been able to watch, I have seen many questionable (at best) calls against Richie. Umpires seem to really stretch the lower portion of the strike zone on him (even though a pitch below his knees would be thigh-high to me!).
A caveman without much of an apetite. lol
I wish Richie would develop an apetite for some homers. Beltre, too, for that matter.
Even a broken watch is right twice a day, you’d think Beltre would have lucked into a homer by know…
That should be “by NOW”..
I’m with Evan regarding the number one issue for Sexson. He’s being very disciplined on the whole about not swinging on the low pitch, especially low and outside, but the umpires are making bad calls and wrecking his hitting plan. Happened again today in Baltimore. I’m not sure what is going to be done about this or when, but if the umps keep putting him in a hole out there, he sure won’t see anything on the inner half of the plate again, and _that’s_ a real problem. Richie hasn’t been that sharp when he actually swings, but his overall sub-par numbers are not all him.