Game 40, Mariners at Oakland
DMZ · May 16, 2006 at 6:07 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
RHP Felix Hernandez v RHP Joe Blanton. 7:05, FSN.
Heyyy, you know how Hargrove wanted 40 games before drawing any conclusions about the team? This is game 40. And the team’s getting smacked around the league. Oh, we can say things may turn around, or they’re no worse than team X or better than team Y, but 90 wins? 80 wins requires them to play a little better than .500 ball the rest of the year, and that’s certainly possible, but playoff contention? Probably not.
Unless… unless they turn it around now, and Felix has fixed his mechanics and they build a little momentum and they could be right back in this. Right? Right?
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Mibbae.
Did Felix’s mechanics go south in the offseason? What happened to him?
He’s fine. He looked as good as he has all year in his last start.
Right.
A’s are a more disciplined team. If he’s having control problems, they’ll tee off on him.
well u can tell that he gained at least 10 pounds in the off-season….
If Hargrove wastes time reading the sports majors columns like I do, he’ll know the reviews are already in. If this was Broadway, this show would be closing night.
Just a random sampling of the last two days:
ESPN fantasy chat:
Erik (Wakefield, MA): Blanton – start him tonight versus the sluggish Mariner’s offense? Or continue to wait for him to turn it around?
Kevin Rounce: He dominated Seattle in his last appearance against them and they are going to have many games this year where they do nothing offensively.
CNNSI even took shots at us describing the Angels in their Power Rankings:
Los Angeles Angels
Back-to-back 12-run games made it appear as if the Angels were breaking out. Then they lost two-of-three to the Mariners last weekend. The Mariners, for crying out loud! “We’re all on the same page. It’s just a page we don’t want to be on,” reliever Brendan Donnelly told the L.A. Times.
Actually, a little love from CBS – 22 Seattle Mariners 24
This could actually be an interesting series in Oakland. A sweep can make them a potential contender again. They’re playing better at the right time.
Oh, the best question from that ESPN fantasty chat with Whosit and Whatshis:
Frank (Waco): who is this jose lopez guy and why is he starting 2b for me?
If you have a team that seldom walks, you’d like it to be a team that also either doesn’t strike out much or hits a lot of home runs. The Ms don’t walk much, strike out a lot, and haven’t exhibited much power.
I checked a site for OPS that compares different positions. As of today, the M’s were last at catcher, 1B, 3B, RF. DH was next to last. CF wasn’t rated because Reed doesn’t have enough at bats or CF would be last too.
Lopez (2nd at his position) has 3 walks, Betancourt has 1 walk.
Some of these guys have been bad in the past, others ok, and some, like Reed in the minors, very good.
Can somebody tell me why the Ms are exhibiting no plate discipline?
9 – What? That’s not true. Unless… what do you mean by last? Last in the AL West?
Just off the top of my head Johjima is closer to the top ten than bottom ten.
It looks like Felix was off to a slow start because he missed time in ST due to the shin splints. With better offseason discipline and conditioning and (hence) a more complete ST, he’d probably start his first game about where he is now. Hopefully.
9 – “catcher, 1b, 3b, rf”
Only Sexson is actually last.
Johjima is 11th in catchers.
Beltre is 2nd to last, ahead of Vinnie Castilla.
Ichiro is 18th in RFers
Everett is 4th in DH’s (only five qualified, but he’s better than teams average DH)
sure, we can build momentum against Blanton, Zito & Saarloos, right? right?
I fear it will be gravity assisted momentum.
Quick! What are the keys to the game?
No Reed in the lineup today? Well, I guess he has been struggling the last few games.
14. heh. It all depends on whether we see Blanton drowner of Mariners or Blanton slayer of hot dogs. He hasn’t pitched so great in every other start except that one in Seattle in early April.
15. First pitch strikes? Keep the ball down?
Ichiro starts off the game with a hit! Celadus, is he now out of the OPS-cellar for RFers?
I love Lopez. I love how he looks fat, but isn’t.
I love how he gets hits.
That’s like how I look tall, but I’m actually only 5′2″
Wasn’t Mateo slated to come of the DL today?
Please start Petagine at first.
I don’t like how Felix is falling off the mound so much, he does a little bit anyway, but dosen’t seem a little too much so far?
Whoa where was that pitch?
woah..what the hell..
haven’t tuned in yet but it occurred to me this is a series in Oakland, so expect Fairly to start by pointing out that Ichiro is liable to lead off a game with a homer down here. He did it like once, 4 years ago, and Fairly never seems to forget it. Could even be one of the Keys to the Game…
I love when the 7 pm games on Extra Innings go late and I can’t watch the game yet!
7 pm ET
I love when I pay for MLB.tv and it doesn’t work.
We complain about our attendance, but I don’t think they have more than 12,000 in the OaklandNetworkAlamedaMcAfeeAssociatesCounty Coliseum tonight.
Velocity please. Mlb.tv isn’t telling.
Looks like Felix is continuing his royal tradition of giving up runs in the first!
12,000 … isn’t that about what the A’s draw for home playoff games?
I hate it when a team gets a big inning purely due to an umpire’s inability to do his job and call the strike zone correctly.
34- I call that “Glavinitis”.
To many years of him in a Braves unifrom making it look like he wasn’t going to get out of the first inning alive.
I’m charting Felix tonight, because I’m a nerd. Apparently, mlb.tv knew that so they decided that we’d get no radar.
1st inning totals:
22 pitches – 14 fastballs, 4 curves, 4 changeups
First pitch fastball to 5 of 6 hitters.
Walk, double, and the single all came on the fastball.
Throw more offspeed stuff, Felix.
38 – You wouldn’t want to do that Dave.
Since the all knowing Hendu said that Felix should throw gas until they start hitting it. Don’t show all your stuff early.
The guy makes my brain hurt.
If anyone cares, Joe Borchard is a giant 0-5 as they’re going extra innings at the Ted.
I agree, he needs to throw more changeups, personally I think its his best pitch.
Wait wait wait, they had Everett steal?
Some nights his change is his best, other nights its his curve.
Everett was out by 15 feet.
Yay! Go Everett! Good choice!
Bah.
Umm… Lawton had to have missed a sign.
Yeah, Dave, I think the curve is a good strikeout pitch, but the changeup really sets up his fastball and he usually can throw it in any count. It’s a good pitch for him to throw when he’s down in the count.
Apparently the inside corner is a ball today.
Yeah, just gonna say that. The ball tailed right back in.
45 – How do you know it was Lawton?
Is Lawton back out on the field, because it looked like Everett was going to beat him with a blunt object when he got caught stealing.
I’d say about 7 times out of 10 its the hitter’s fault on a hit and run botched up, based on what I’ve had experience with. Could have been Everett seeing something that wasn’t there though I guess.
This looks like angry, focused, it-doesn’t-matter-what-pitch-I-throw-because-they’re-all-unhittable Felix.
2nd inning totals:
9 pitches, 8 fastballs, 1 Changeup
3 batters faced, first pitch fastball to all three.
He’s now thrown a first pitch fastball to 8 of the 9 batters he’s faced. The A’s have only swung twice. If he doesn’t start mixing in something offspeed now and then, expect that to change.
First pitch fastball, hitter swings, base hit…
I’m just saying.
Felix needs to suck it up, he’s making me look stupid for taking him in the first round #3 overall this year.
I know the guys at Beyond the Box Score are mocking me. (That’s the league I’m playing in)
Just like you said Dave. They’ll definitely be looking for fastballs. The only way Felix gets hit is if they know what’s coming. And that’s exactly what happens when you throw first pitch fastballs all game.
And how is that inside pitch not a strike.
X-men 3 pitch by pitch out? Good lord, is there anything they can’t slap a brand name on?
I think Felix is having that shoulder-flying-open thing again. And he definitely put on 10 lbs. or more, subscribing to the Freddy Garcia Offseason Schooling.
It’s been 17 pitches since the last curveball…
Yeah, the constant first pitch fastball is the equivalent of the WSU Cougars’ first down offensive game plan: Get the ball to Jerome Harrison. Teams figured that one out before they ever got to Martin Stadium, and yet the Cougs ran it on almost every first down.
Base hit. My fantasy score is plummeting.
First pitch change and a beauty. Strike one.
Dave- So do you think Johjima’s calling bad games for Felix? Or does Felix make that desision?
First pitch curve! I don’t care that it’s a ball.
It’s not Johjima – he does this when Rivera’s catching too. I think its an organizational thing.
I love this at bat to Chavez. You can tell he’s sitting on a fastball, and he’s not getting one.
Change-up is kicking in.
King Felix! Why couldn’t you work like that in the first?
That was great – 6 pitch at-bat, three curves, three changeups, no fastballs. Strikeout. Awesome.
Is Adrian Beltre succumbing to the Mariners Third Base Curse?
How many times this year have we seen him load the bases in the first few innings?
Shit…
Ahhhhh F*&%^*(*%#@*(*@#%*^%#(*^%*@#^%(*@^#%(*^%!!
In the immortal words of Charlie Brown, UGH!
Everyone alive knew a fastball was coming there. He’s gotta learn how to mix his pitches better.
So… Beltre… that non-out HURT.
At least they’re not earned.
He needs to stop getting so frustrated when his defense doesn’t back him up.
Sitting on the fastball.
Well, that was… certenly something.
Beltre has been $ all year with the glove.
So, do I watch the rest of the game and pull my hair out? Or do I pull out my hair computing logarithms?
*ouch* That one . . . hurts.
59 pitches and 6 runs through 3. At least only 2 of those are earned.
At least Lopez doesn’t let the awful circumstances get him down.
First and third with no outs, time for Sexson to pull a Castillo and hit into a triple play.
At least the bats seem to be working, even if the pitching isn’t.
1 out of 2 isn’t too bad.
These idiots keep missing pitches showing dumb replays…
You have got to be kidding me, Sexson.
Why is Sexson still batting cleanup? When Beltre struggled, there was no hesitation in moving him down in the order. Hell, why is he even starting every day?
Is that good or bad?
Ahhh, This is horrorable.
82. Isn’t it one earned run? All the runs that scored after the error have to be unearned since if that play was made the inning would have ended.
91.- Yeah, you’re right. Gameday had it at 2 ER and I wasn’t thinking about it.
The A’s have 7 hits – 6 off fastballs. Their approach is basically “stare at slow, swing at hard”. More slow stuff, please.
The A’s announcers are talking about how special Felix is because of his mixture of ground ball dominance and strikeout rate, and how rare that is.
You’d never, ever, ever hear that on an M’s broadcast.
did they do the aflac trivia answer? there’s beer on the line but we got back late to the game cause of the Suns/Clips game
To me, the only real difference in Felix between last year and this is last year his fastball was consistently way down in the strikezone with good movement, nearly unhittable. This year, the velocity is there, but the pitch is up a bit and doesn’t have the same movement. But I’m with Dave in #64, I think the organizational plan for Felix is ‘establish the fastball, then work in the off speed pitches.’ Other teams know that they can’t hit his curve or his change, so the sit on the fastball. Which is occasionally hittable. That’s it, but that’s enough. I’m still way high on Felix, but if the organization wanted him to struggle so that ‘he learns to deal with adversity,’ they’ve achieved their aim. *bleh*
Well, that’s it for me…
And mlb.tv just went black. I guess thats a sign.
Well, damn.
Now to wonder if at 8 I turn and watch House..or stay with this debacle.
What should the org do, then? Call for more fastballs _out of the strike zone.- If other teams are sitting on the pitch, and they are, and it’s occasionally hittable, and it is, throw it out of the zone at least half the time so they can’t get a good hack. I’m not harshing on Chaves in saying this, but I think that the team needs to get smarter with their pitching plan for Felix. Their plan is appropriate for the Felix we saw last summer, but not for the Felix we are seeing this Spring for the most part. If Felix finds his #1 Hummer, then fine; if not, more fastballs out of the zone, then change and curve in the zone for strikes.
The way to fix Felix is NOT to have him throw more pitches out of the strike zone. He already throws too many pitches out of the strike zone.
I watched a four-hour Yankees-Rangers game that just ended a few minutes ago. Yankees came back from down nine, with Posada winning with a two-run walk-off shot. … Think that’s us? Heh heh.
Call it a cliche, call it vague, whatever, but Felix needs to learn how to pitch. He’s formulaic in his approach – fastballs early, curveballs in the dirt when ahead, change-ups when he can’t get the FB over and falls behind in the count.
Besides the at-bat to Chavez, which was freaking awesome (and resulted in a K), the approach to each hitter was the same. That has to change.
103 – I was just thinking “Man, what if Jamie Moyer had Felix’s stuff? How many Cy Youngs would he have? And which combination of AAAA players and someone named Cora would the Mariners have traded him for years ago?”
Why do you leave him in and use up his 200 innings in a game like this?
105 – the Mariners these day seem real big on parental managing.
#99 – even Gilmore Girls would be preferable to this. In fact, isn’t that them batting for the M’s tonight?
booooooo
Man, they are hitting the same pitch everytime.
Lesser minds would think “Stop throwing it.”
Hargrove thinks “Throw it more. Let’s lull them into run-scoring complacency.”
it’s unfortunate that it’s hurting us more than it’s apparently hurting them.
Time to put on the PS2 and play some MVP. Who else is game?
Oh well, there goes the quality start…
I’m pretty sure Beltre was trying to join the A’s squad right there. Heck, I would want to.
Maybe this is Come-Back-From-Nine-Runs-Down Day in the AL.
Hey, if the Yankees can do it, why can’t we? What do they have that we don’t? Bernie Williams? We’ve got like seven 2006 Bernies.
So Dave (103), is this something that the M’s can fix? Does Chavez sit Felix down at a video terminal and watch this game with him, going over pitch selection and sequencing?
Gotta love these guys. I’m on East time. If ever there was a time to go read a book and try to be somewhat fresh for work. … %$#@ing M’s.
Ok. The go-ahead run is on first.
Here come the Mariners. Only 8 more runs!
Hold the phone.
The Mariners never, ever give uh…scratch that.
This is like watching a trainwreck.
Watching a trainwreck?
This is like being Harrison Ford in The Fugitive where the train is about to land on your head.
Too bad Payton stopped at 3rd. At least a chance at a “in the park HR” would have been interesting.
It’s during blowouts like this that I would beg the M’s announcers to do some actual analysis of the team or specific players. But alas, it’s too much to ask of these guys. Instead we’ll get more of Rizzs asking Hendu about his glory days in Oakland.
That seemed like a mercy triple.
115: > watch this game with him, going over pitch selection and sequencing?
So who’s fault is pitch selection?
That fat ex-player on ESPN says Jojima is a total bust and calls a bad game and can’t communicate with the staff.
King was better last year with some veteran (second rate) catchers.
I shudder at the thought that Price might have known how to get something out of Felix…..
In other news the Seahawks signed Holmgren to a 2-year extension.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2447758
Unable to tolerate the Rizzs-Hendersen campain for Hendersen Hall of Fame did a Dogpile search of his stats. It asked “did you mean Dave Andersen?” that is about how good his career stats are. He is so humble.
Someone who has seen Felix’s starts on TV needs to summarize in a post what in the hell is wrong with him (for those East coast fans like myself that have not purchased MLB tv….although it’s coming very soon). In my estimation, he has only had 2 quality starts all year (Detroit and last start at Tampa Bay….not exactly lineups that strike fear into the hearts of men). I really am wondering how he can perform like he did last year and then seem like a totally different pitcher this year.
Is it a case of:
scouting reports?
new catcher?
lack of command?
lack of (dare I say) “stuff”?
being only 20 years old/hype?
new pitching coach (even though he tight with Chaves)?
I think that (with this team clearly not going anywhere this season) this could ultimately teach him to be a better pitcher instead of a thrower. In my dream world (where USS Mariner authors write the articles I want at the drop of a hat….and I am a multi-billionaire), this would be the first post immediately after this start. For what it’s worth, go M’s!
126.- But then again, the fat ex-player on ESPN is a total moron. What are the chances that he actually has watched a full M’s game?
What are the chances that he actually has watched a full M’s game
I dunno, but that’s a club that’s getting smaller and smaller.
130: My thoughts exactly. I like Kenji, I think he’s much better than any of the re-treads we had last year. I thought fat boy was out of line, dumping the the on guy wo probably wouldn’t understand his criticism (language), as opposed to pinning the problem on the expensive bats. I’m certain he wouldn’t sit thru an entire mariners game unless they were getting pounded by one of his east coast teams.
We’re all forgetting about the dreaded sophomore jinx!
…which is probably the result of something listed by 129.
1) It’s not as painful when you listen on the radio. And not just because Hendu is on TV. When Felix is getting lit up, I think I’d rather hear Fred & Barney…er…Rick & Red try to put a good spin on it, then actually watch it.
2) Depressing game thread, except for Dave’s pitch-tracking and practical discussion of what really needs to be done. Sometimes a little cold analysis is what you need to get you through a night like this.
3) Did someone really draft Felix in the first round on their FB team? Yikes. Actually, don’t answer that. FB talk should be banned, but that would require even more comment monitoring, so I shouldn’t have brought it up. Never mind.
Those are my thoughts for the evening. Thank you for allowing me to share. Now I think I’ll switch over to the Angels-Toronto game.
wow, i just got home (i was out drinking wine, entirely too much, but really, after checking out the box score thus far, maybe, not enough).
so, this, the felix start, is what we’re looking forward to these days? we look forward to 4 ip, 10 runs?
wasn’t oakland in a slump coming into this game?
Oh…Ichiro’s .0001 away from batting 300.
50 hits / 167 ABs
Lawton has seen 7 pitches in 3 ABs tonight.
About Kruk, he used to do color for Phillies games and was very good, fun, and somewhat knowledgable. Now ESPN has him reading his queue cards and being a jerk in order to balance Harold Reynolds. I think Kruk’s problem is more with how ESPN made him out than Kruk himself.
Funny how when Lopez comes to the plate I finally feel like something can actually happen offensively.
Thanks Jose.
At least Jose Lopez still rocks.
third time jose has had 3 hits/game in the past 4 games, and 4th time this month.
RAUL.
And the bats wake up in garbage time again. How predictable is this team?
At least this game’s getting a little more respectable. Thanks, Mr. Ibanez.
I like how our 2 best bats are Lopez and Raul. Well, I’m out. Good night all.
Raul runs like a 45 year old.
146- A 45 year old with a piano strapped to his back.
BTW, both KIRO and FSN were at the Rainiers game this afternoon. One might think there’s an interview about to be shown. Or something.
What is this, Doyle awareness week?
Where is this “King” everyone keeps talking about? From the looks of things, it’s the version scarfing down fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches hand over fist.. Felix looks out of shape. And very very AVERAGE.
Jose Lopez, though, continues to impress. He’s easy to pull for. Happy-go-lucky guy that works hard.
I liked toward the end of the game the “Where’s Richie” segment with Brad Adam.
Yeah… come to think of it.. where IS Richie? Will there be a “Where’s Adrian” tomorrow? I rarely find any value in what Hendu says, but how long can we continue to trot out lumps of nothing at the 4 and 5 spot???
Excuse, Mr. Hernandez, but I’m here to collect your crown. It is being repossessed. When you have payed your dues you’ll get it back.
Yeah, well, when you can spell he’ll give it to you.
17-23. Last year never ended. Or the year before: it’s all one, long, 270-loss season. The prime suspects change, but the (dead)beat remains the same.
—But we’ll have a good team here by the end of ‘07, hey!
so, how many times do we have to remind ourselves that this is a 20 year old pitching at the major league level?
I hate to sound like one of “those fans,” but a defining moment in that game occured in the first inning when he didn’t get that called third strike against Nick Swisher. Suddenly, Felix has not just struck out the first two batters he faced, but is looking at Kotsay with one out and Swisher on…with a bad taste in his mouth after not getting the call on the slider.
Here is precisely where you see the impact of being 20 years old on a pitcher with Felix’s stuff: no confidence = no King.
I think we should automate the calling of balls and strikes. The umpires are insufficiently consistent.
It hurts pitchers. It hurts hitters. It hurts everybody.
BRING BACK QUESTEC, at least for the minors.
I think the reason guys like Schilling got so mad at Questec is because machines don’t give you “strikes” three inches off the plate, and umps didn’t like only because they have giant egos and it didn’t allow them to squeeze anybody or do anybody favors.
Unable to tolerate the Rizzs-Hendersen campain for Hendersen Hall of Fame did a Dogpile search of his stats. It asked “did you mean Dave Andersen?†that is about how good his career stats are. He is so humble.
Actually that is less a matter of Henderson’s bad play than your bad spelling. I have never heard anyone suggest Henderson for the HOF, because that would be plain silly.
Hendu was a fun player to watch in his early years on some bad Mariners teams. He played a good outfield, he had a big swing and hit some big home runs and was completely unable to adjust to major league curveballs. He consistently led the team in bats thrown into the stands down the third base line chasing breaking balls.
He was very good with Oakland in 1988, batting 304/363/525 and batted 324/410/606 in 4 World Series. Plus, of course, hitting the unfortunately memorable HR off Donnie Moore.
Dave,
Is it possible to get a recap of your King Felix charting for last night?
Yea, its in the works.
# 149: I think the boys are trying something different this year. Last year very little was spoken, and of course, the “Doyle” moniker was invented so they wouldn’t have to use his name. And….we saw how that worked out on the ol’ superstition/voodoo/karma wheel.
So, unlike our favorite hometown 9…the boys are trying something different this year. By all means, let’s put up pictures, track his stats, heck maybe even say his name CHRIS SNELLING! I’m all for it!
I think that’s already what is happening…
Go SNELLING! G’day, good luck, good on ya, eat your Vegamite and stay healthy.
If you (folks) would recall, Doyle got hurt after we largely dropped the Doyle monicker in standard conversation.
So saying it didn’t work is entirely wrong: it worked, we stopped, he got hurt. If anything that would be evidence that it does work, and in going about flaunting the name now, you’re tempting fate.
Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle Doyle
163 – and aside from that, why would you want to be THAT GUY? That guy that gets a tiny thrill from voiving things that he knows will make others cringe?
I said this in a thread the other day, but why not just respect other people’s conventions, regardless of your own beliefs?