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	<title>Comments on: Charting Felix</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: Arkinese</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-106052</link>
		<dc:creator>Arkinese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 21:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-106052</guid>
		<description>Thanks to Dave for his great stat-taking and analysis. When Felix gets shaken up (normal for a young pitcher) and wants to try to blaze his fastball by people (normal for a young pitcher whose fastball has been touted), he&#039;s got to remember the three simple rules of pitching:

1. Work fast
2. Change speeds
3. Location, location, location

He struggles with #1 when he gets shook up; he bombed on #2 in Tuesday&#039;s game and has in other games, particularly in early innings; #3 appears to be a problem only with the fastball (though it got better last year when he came up).

So, if his fastball location needs some work (which several of us have agreed will get better with age and practice in the majors), then he&#039;s got to focus on his offspeed location, changing his speeds regularly and working fast both when he&#039;s doing well and a bit shook up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Dave for his great stat-taking and analysis. When Felix gets shaken up (normal for a young pitcher) and wants to try to blaze his fastball by people (normal for a young pitcher whose fastball has been touted), he&#8217;s got to remember the three simple rules of pitching:</p>
<p>1. Work fast<br />
2. Change speeds<br />
3. Location, location, location</p>
<p>He struggles with #1 when he gets shook up; he bombed on #2 in Tuesday&#8217;s game and has in other games, particularly in early innings; #3 appears to be a problem only with the fastball (though it got better last year when he came up).</p>
<p>So, if his fastball location needs some work (which several of us have agreed will get better with age and practice in the majors), then he&#8217;s got to focus on his offspeed location, changing his speeds regularly and working fast both when he&#8217;s doing well and a bit shook up.</p>
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		<title>By: chindogu</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-106032</link>
		<dc:creator>chindogu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 20:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-106032</guid>
		<description>The idea that they&#039;re trying to keep Felix from throwing curveballs has merit.  Not because there&#039;s any proof that curveballs are any worse for your arm than fastballs, but because there&#039;s a perception that that is the case.  It seems like every move the Mariners make is designed to keep them from appearing to be to blame; if they limit Felix to 100 pitches and 190 innings, and tell him to throw mostly fastballs, it&#039;s not their fault if he gets hurt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that they&#8217;re trying to keep Felix from throwing curveballs has merit.  Not because there&#8217;s any proof that curveballs are any worse for your arm than fastballs, but because there&#8217;s a perception that that is the case.  It seems like every move the Mariners make is designed to keep them from appearing to be to blame; if they limit Felix to 100 pitches and 190 innings, and tell him to throw mostly fastballs, it&#8217;s not their fault if he gets hurt.</p>
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		<title>By: gwo</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-105914</link>
		<dc:creator>gwo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 10:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-105914</guid>
		<description>Felix Hernandez is a frontline major league starter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix Hernandez is a frontline major league starter.</p>
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		<title>By: tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-105837</link>
		<dc:creator>tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 03:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-105837</guid>
		<description>First off, Dave, thanks much for doing this work, and posting it.  It&#039;s data compilations like this that is needed.

Paul/60: good job.  It&#039;s a rare combination to have a guy give up lots of HR and lots of GB!  Note that the batting average on groundballs is higher than on flyballs (though the SLG average is higher on FB).  So, getting a low DER for a severe GB pitcher is not unheard of.  But it is extremely weird to have such a low DER with the quality of fielders he has at SS and 3B.

What would be interesting is to track Felix&#039;s balls in play, and see how many are &quot;close&quot;, or if the fielders simply didn&#039;t have a chance.

Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, Dave, thanks much for doing this work, and posting it.  It&#8217;s data compilations like this that is needed.</p>
<p>Paul/60: good job.  It&#8217;s a rare combination to have a guy give up lots of HR and lots of GB!  Note that the batting average on groundballs is higher than on flyballs (though the SLG average is higher on FB).  So, getting a low DER for a severe GB pitcher is not unheard of.  But it is extremely weird to have such a low DER with the quality of fielders he has at SS and 3B.</p>
<p>What would be interesting is to track Felix&#8217;s balls in play, and see how many are &#8220;close&#8221;, or if the fielders simply didn&#8217;t have a chance.</p>
<p>Tom</p>
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		<title>By: Murton</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-105779</link>
		<dc:creator>Murton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 02:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-105779</guid>
		<description>Even if Felix isn&#039;t reaching 97 consistently, his mid-90&#039;s fastball should be more than enough.  His stuff are breathtaking.  In fact, it&#039;s razor close to what Pedro Martinez had during his prime, the same three plus-plus pitches.  I don&#039;t understand why the comparison isn&#039;t made more often.  Despite their different builds and different batted ball tendencies, I can&#039;t remember another pitcher other than Pedro who had three great pitches.

It seems to me Felix hasn&#039;t had many games this year where he&#039;s had command of both his fastball and breaking pitches at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if Felix isn&#8217;t reaching 97 consistently, his mid-90&#8217;s fastball should be more than enough.  His stuff are breathtaking.  In fact, it&#8217;s razor close to what Pedro Martinez had during his prime, the same three plus-plus pitches.  I don&#8217;t understand why the comparison isn&#8217;t made more often.  Despite their different builds and different batted ball tendencies, I can&#8217;t remember another pitcher other than Pedro who had three great pitches.</p>
<p>It seems to me Felix hasn&#8217;t had many games this year where he&#8217;s had command of both his fastball and breaking pitches at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Covert</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-105718</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Covert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 01:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-105718</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I agree [control is] important, but I donâ€™t see it as the big difference between the Felix weâ€™re seeing and the Felix weâ€™ve seen.&lt;/i&gt;

For another perspective on Felix&#039;s struggles, I turned to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/?view=pitching&amp;league_filter[]=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hardball Times pitching stats&lt;/a&gt;.

What I found there was that, for all his struggles this year, he still ranks fifth best, among 54 qualifying AL pitchers, in THT&#039;s &quot;ultimate stat&quot; of xFIP-- that is, Fielding-Independent Pitching, adjusted according to the Ron Shandler hypothesis that (home runs / fly balls) may tend to even out over time. (The top 10 in the category are Bonderman, Kazmir, Santana, Halladay, Felix, Haren, Escobar, Schilling, Mussina, and Westbrook-- not a bad group to be associated with.)

Now, the xFIP number is based on three key inputs: K/9, BB/9, and GB%. Of those, Felix is (even with his struggles this year) one of the best in K/9 (#3/54) and in GB% (#5/54). He&#039;s a little worse than average in BB/9 (#35/54), but not enough to drag him down much. 

But in the HR/Fly category, Felix&#039;s 25.9% ranks dead last in the league, about double the normal figure. (He does have company, however; Pineiro&#039;s 21.8% ranks as #52/54, with only Radke in between them among AL qualifiers.)

When we turn to the DER stat-- what percentage of his batted balls turn into outs, more or less-- we again find Felix on the bottom of the stack, at .635. (His LD%, or Line Drive Percentage, is also a bit worse than average, at 20.3%.)

What is this telling us, then? Are Felix&#039;s current struggles just bad luck? Maybe partly so. But I&#039;m not yet concluding that that&#039;s the entire explanation. I tend to suspect that the Shandler Hypothesis (and maybe even the Voros) is more valid in describing &quot;good luck&quot; cases than &quot;bad luck.&quot; If a pitcher has .850 of his batted balls turning into outs, or with 98.5% of his fly balls staying in the yard, then I would hesitate to attribute that to skill-- if that were the case, it would be a skill previously unseen in the major league game. But if forty percent of his balls in play become hits, or if thirty percent of his flies leave the yard, then yes, it&#039;s relatively easy to imagine a natural explanation for it: The pitcher is just making too many mistakes, for whatever reason. 

So I think that Felix&#039;s difficulties this year are real-- but that they should be solvable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I agree [control is] important, but I donâ€™t see it as the big difference between the Felix weâ€™re seeing and the Felix weâ€™ve seen.</i></p>
<p>For another perspective on Felix&#8217;s struggles, I turned to the <a href="http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/?view=pitching&amp;league_filter[]=1" rel="nofollow">Hardball Times pitching stats</a>.</p>
<p>What I found there was that, for all his struggles this year, he still ranks fifth best, among 54 qualifying AL pitchers, in THT&#8217;s &#8220;ultimate stat&#8221; of xFIP&#8211; that is, Fielding-Independent Pitching, adjusted according to the Ron Shandler hypothesis that (home runs / fly balls) may tend to even out over time. (The top 10 in the category are Bonderman, Kazmir, Santana, Halladay, Felix, Haren, Escobar, Schilling, Mussina, and Westbrook&#8211; not a bad group to be associated with.)</p>
<p>Now, the xFIP number is based on three key inputs: K/9, BB/9, and GB%. Of those, Felix is (even with his struggles this year) one of the best in K/9 (#3/54) and in GB% (#5/54). He&#8217;s a little worse than average in BB/9 (#35/54), but not enough to drag him down much. </p>
<p>But in the HR/Fly category, Felix&#8217;s 25.9% ranks dead last in the league, about double the normal figure. (He does have company, however; Pineiro&#8217;s 21.8% ranks as #52/54, with only Radke in between them among AL qualifiers.)</p>
<p>When we turn to the DER stat&#8211; what percentage of his batted balls turn into outs, more or less&#8211; we again find Felix on the bottom of the stack, at .635. (His LD%, or Line Drive Percentage, is also a bit worse than average, at 20.3%.)</p>
<p>What is this telling us, then? Are Felix&#8217;s current struggles just bad luck? Maybe partly so. But I&#8217;m not yet concluding that that&#8217;s the entire explanation. I tend to suspect that the Shandler Hypothesis (and maybe even the Voros) is more valid in describing &#8220;good luck&#8221; cases than &#8220;bad luck.&#8221; If a pitcher has .850 of his batted balls turning into outs, or with 98.5% of his fly balls staying in the yard, then I would hesitate to attribute that to skill&#8211; if that were the case, it would be a skill previously unseen in the major league game. But if forty percent of his balls in play become hits, or if thirty percent of his flies leave the yard, then yes, it&#8217;s relatively easy to imagine a natural explanation for it: The pitcher is just making too many mistakes, for whatever reason. </p>
<p>So I think that Felix&#8217;s difficulties this year are real&#8211; but that they should be solvable.</p>
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		<title>By: John in L.A.</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-105717</link>
		<dc:creator>John in L.A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 00:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-105717</guid>
		<description>55 - sorry, man, missed it.

56 - I didn&#039;t say command was unimportant, I was saying that pitching better leads to being ahead in the count, not the other way around. 

And he has been dominating, even without fantasic control. I agree it&#039;s important, but i don&#039;t see it as the big difference between the Felix we&#039;re seeing and the Felix we&#039;ve seen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>55 &#8211; sorry, man, missed it.</p>
<p>56 &#8211; I didn&#8217;t say command was unimportant, I was saying that pitching better leads to being ahead in the count, not the other way around. </p>
<p>And he has been dominating, even without fantasic control. I agree it&#8217;s important, but i don&#8217;t see it as the big difference between the Felix we&#8217;re seeing and the Felix we&#8217;ve seen.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidE</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-105716</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 00:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-105716</guid>
		<description>My theory is that management doesn&#039;t want him throwing too many curveballs and his changeup was stinky (technical term) while warming up so he didn&#039;t want to throw it.  Pure theory, idle speculation.  If I&#039;m right (probably not) than I REALLY don&#039;t understand why you would want your young stud pitching without his best pitch at his disposal?  Maybe they&#039;re trying to get him to be more ummm....say it with me...&quot;gritty&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My theory is that management doesn&#8217;t want him throwing too many curveballs and his changeup was stinky (technical term) while warming up so he didn&#8217;t want to throw it.  Pure theory, idle speculation.  If I&#8217;m right (probably not) than I REALLY don&#8217;t understand why you would want your young stud pitching without his best pitch at his disposal?  Maybe they&#8217;re trying to get him to be more ummm&#8230;.say it with me&#8230;&#8221;gritty&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Thingray</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-105715</link>
		<dc:creator>Thingray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 00:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-105715</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll take Felix&#039;s struggles at 20 in exchange for him having a LONG and succesful career (rather than tearing up the league at 20 like Doc, and then flaming out early!).

Having said that, I want to see him dominate again like he did last year!  Man, was that fun to watch!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll take Felix&#8217;s struggles at 20 in exchange for him having a LONG and succesful career (rather than tearing up the league at 20 like Doc, and then flaming out early!).</p>
<p>Having said that, I want to see him dominate again like he did last year!  Man, was that fun to watch!</p>
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		<title>By: Frozenropers</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/comment-page-2/#comment-105714</link>
		<dc:creator>Frozenropers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 23:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/05/17/charting-felix/#comment-105714</guid>
		<description>#48, &quot;Pitching well&quot; as you say it, comes from having command of your pitches and being able to throw strikes.  If you can&#039;t consistently command your pitches, then you aren&#039;t going to be able to consistently throw strikes.....and if you can&#039;t consistently throw strikes then you are going to consistently be pitching from behind in the count.  As Dave said, last year in the majors was one of the first times Felix was able to consistently command his fastball and he was extremely success, even at the young age of 19, at getting major league hitters out, because of it.

....and No, it is not a &quot;circular arguement&quot;, its one of the most basic elements of successful pitching.  You must be able to command your pitches, especially/primarily your fastball to be successfull in the majors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#48, &#8220;Pitching well&#8221; as you say it, comes from having command of your pitches and being able to throw strikes.  If you can&#8217;t consistently command your pitches, then you aren&#8217;t going to be able to consistently throw strikes&#8230;..and if you can&#8217;t consistently throw strikes then you are going to consistently be pitching from behind in the count.  As Dave said, last year in the majors was one of the first times Felix was able to consistently command his fastball and he was extremely success, even at the young age of 19, at getting major league hitters out, because of it.</p>
<p>&#8230;.and No, it is not a &#8220;circular arguement&#8221;, its one of the most basic elements of successful pitching.  You must be able to command your pitches, especially/primarily your fastball to be successfull in the majors.</p>
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