Johjima pitch calling, Pineiro from the PI blog
Hickey’s got two items that escaped comment earlier this week:
“Washburn takes responsibility for homer” in which Jarrod says he didn’t shake Johjima’s changeup call off and it got cranked.
This is interesting in part because it leads with this:
Earlier in the season, Seattle pitchers were complaining, mostly privately, about the pitch calling tendencies of catcher Kenji Johjima.
But also that Hickey asserts that Johjima leans heavily away from the fastball, which contradicts the complaints that he was screwing up by calling for the fastball all the time, particularly early in the count.
I’ll take it for granted for a second that the pitchers aren’t all that happy with Johjima’s pitch-calling. I’m not sure it particularly matters (studies have shown that despite all the importance placed on this skill, the best and worst catchers don’t get appreciably different results out of pitchers). What interests me is the possibility that part of Felix’s problems (as Dave’s charted) are a result of the team attempting to correct this by having Johjima call more set sequences and get more pitches from the dugout, along with instructing him to “establish the fastball” more.
The other is that Pineiro might get dropped from the rotation. He (supposedly, what outsider can really verify this stuff) has options left and could be sent to Tacoma, but a bigger issue seems to be – who then?
Baek? Really? He’s been pretty good in Tacoma, but it’s not as if he’s turned a corner, and he’s not on the 40-man roster, so there’d have to be some move there. Cruceta’s had some good outings, but he’s not a complete pitcher yet and he’s been maddeningly inconsistent. After that there’s nothing in Tacoma.
Look to the bullpen and promote someone? Same thing — none of those guys are good bets to be appreciably better (as long as Soriano can’t be moved up).
Make a deal? That’s where this gets interesting. I don’t know who they’d move, or where, but if they’re considering moving Pineiro as part of an attempt to close the gap on the A’s, they’re going to need someone who’d be an appreciable upgrade and is available, playing for a team that needs what the M’s can offer.
I haven’t given this enough thought yet, but nothing springs to mind as a good fit immediately.
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Rumor has it if Pineiro gets bumped, LHP Travis Blackley will take his spot. Hes shown good stuff in AA and could be in Tacoma by the end of the week.
Didn’t we hear that about Blackley once before? Remind me again what happened the last time he was promoted? What, exactly, has changed?
As for trades, who are even potential partners? Nobody in the division, of course, and nobody who’s a contender, and nobody who — like the Mariners — thinks they might be a contender. What would a pennant-hunting team want with Pineiro? And what would the M’s have to offer to get a better pitcher? They’d need quite a package to offset Joel.
Yeah, so you’re essentially looking for:
– Teams out of contention
– Teams in contention who have pitching coming out of their ears and might be willing to toss one to make room
So that’s
AL East: Tampa, maybe Baltimore
AL Central: Cleveland, Minnesota, KC
AL West: nope
NL East: everyone but the Mets (well, Philly might still see themselves as wild card contenders)
NL Central: Cubs, Pittsburgh
NL West: nope
I can’t think of a particularly good match. However, the White Sox do have a ton of pitching, and they’ve done business before. McCarthy, maybe, for bullpen help? Even that seems really strained.
Blackley? Bah. Just what we need: another mediocre, soft-tossing lefty in the rotation.
Trade Pineiro to the Dimondbacks for righty Enrique Gonzale. He’s young (turns 24 next month) and good (2-0 with a 1.69 ERA
sorry that’s Gonzalez.
Could Soriano start?
I wouldn’t think that they’d want Soriano to start because of the success he’s had as one of the setup guys in the ‘pen. Also, unless something has changed, Soriano has no offspeed pitch or third pitch in his repetoire. This would seem to preclude him from being a starter.
DMZ, Cleveland might be a match. I’m sure you know that the have this kid Jeremy Sowers tearing up AAA and are going to need to make room for him. They also need bullpen help. The don’t really have an experienced lefty in their ‘pen. Maybe that ground ball fool Jason Johnson? With the M’s infield he might be an upgrade over Joel. What do you think?
IMO it should be Cruceta. He can eat innings and he has a big time fastball and splitter. All he heeds to do is throw strikes. He has much more of an upside than Pineioro at this point.
For next season they have the answer right on their roster. People might think this is nuts, but they should make a starter out of J.J.Putz. He has three pitches now, he is at his peak physically, he was a starter in the minors, and they have Soriano to close.
Putz and Cruceta give them two big, hard-throwing right-handers who should get a lot of ground balls with those splitters. If they can change speeds at all, they could make the M’s very dangerous.
The last thing they need to do is trade for some overpriced back-of-the-rotation starter.
the other recent comment on shaking off Joh came from Putz the other day:
“Putz mostly pitched Bonds up and away with hard stuff. Once, he got too much of the plate, but Bonds fouled it off. The count went to 3-2. Putz wanted fastball. Stubbornly, catcher Kenji Johjima signaled for the split-finger. “I shook it off three times,” Putz said. “I wanted to go fastball, up and in.” Putz finally went with Johjima. He buckled Bonds with a splitter that creased the plate perfectly, about thigh-high. Strike three.
“A guy throwing 99 miles an hour drops a split on you,” sighed Bonds.
“You go, ‘See you later, have a nice day.’ ”
and re: Pineiro– today in the PI, though not from Hickey,
“The apprehension and concern felt by Mariners manager Mike Hargrove during this difficult stretch by Joel Pineiro appeared to be eased after a productive meeting with the right-hander. Hargrove said Pineiro will undoubtedly make his next start against the Los Angeles Dodgers and remain in the starting rotation. Hargrove strongly hinted after Pineiro’s shabby performance Wednesday against Oakland that he was considering sending him to the bullpen.
Those feelings dissipated after Hargrove met with Pineiro, 27, and pitching coach Rafael Chaves hours before the Mariners’ game with the San Francisco Giants.
“We talked about a number of things, and we have to find a way to get him back on track,” Hargrove said. “He’s not coming out of the rotation.” The move — or lack thereof — is a sign of confidence in the inconsistent Pineiro, who has yet to recapture the form that produced 16 wins in 2003 and catapulted him to top-of-the-rotation status. [snip] “We had a good, productive meeting,” Hargrove said. “And hopefully we can get him straightened out.”
So Hargrove is more willing to believe whatever he hears Pineiro saying in a meeting than what he’s actually seen Pineiro doing on the mound the last month+? What is this, faith-based management?
Soriano’s got fastball-slider-change. The issue was whether he could throw it consistently cor strikes or not. And you can succeed as a starter with a marginal third pitch if the first two are good. His issue is health, not stuff – he’s not that far off the arm surgery, putting him in the rotation isn’t going to happen for a while.
w/r/t Sowers. I know Dave’s not as big on Sowers as some are, but I don’t see Cleveland trading him (uh, unless they agree with Dave), and certainly not for what we can offer them.
I’d like to see Mateo, Guardado, and Pineiro all moved. It could happen.
Don’t see any of our position players going anywhere. If Beltre gets moved, I’m sure it’ll be an offseason move… and we’ll eat a ton of salary. Shivers of Cirillo and Speizio. 3B in Seattle is cursed.
Are Nageotte, Livingston and Foppert still all sucking? Ugh.
Re. #5:
Although Bob Melvin and Bryan Price have a history with Joel Piñeiro, I highly doubt that the Arizona Diamondbacks would trade Enrique Gonzalez for him. At any rate, though, it’s unfortunate that the Diamondbacks have Kevin Jarivs in their rotation.
Didn’t we hear that about Blackley once before? Remind me again what happened the last time he was promoted? What, exactly, has changed?
Uh, last time he was promoted, he was hurt. He’s now not hurt.
I still wouldn’t bring him up, though. At least give him a few starts in Tacoma rather than the straight jump from San Antonio.
Re. #14:
While it could just be my own personal opinion, I believe that the San Diego Padres would be the perfect destination for Adrian Beltre.
If the Seattle Mariners traded Beltre ($12.9 million) and Joel Piñeiro ($6.3 million) to the Padres for Chan Ho Park ($15 million) and Vinny Castilla ($3.2 million) — so long as the Padres paid for the remainder of Beltre’s contract — then, as far as I’m concerned, it would be a fair deal.
In any event, Beltre’s 2005 season (.334/.388/.629 & 48 HR) might have been even more of an anomaly than Brady Anderson’s 1996 season (.297/.396/.637 & 50 HR).
AK1984 wrote:
That would be Beltre’s 2004 season, much as I might wish it were otherwise.
Park might be better in Safeco with the M’s behind him, but not that much better. I’d rather have Beltre’s defense on the field than Park’s arm on the mound. The M’s get a lot more for their ~$13M than the Padres get for their $15M.
Park and Castilla? You gotta be kidding me.
Beltre, as much as he is sucking, is one of the faces of the M’s, you see him on posters downtown and whatnot. You don’t trade that for a has-been and never really was.
Beltre is still young, athletic and plays superb defense. His head is just, well, mentally challenged at the plate.
I know Dave’s not as big on Sowers as some are, but I don’t see Cleveland trading him
My take on that suggestion was that Cleveland needed to make room for him the rotation, so they might want to trade one of their current starters (Cliff Lee? Jason Johnson? Both have ERAs over 5) to do that. If they’re higher on him than Dave is, that would make some sense. On the other hand, you have to be pretty high on something to bring up a rookie and immediately get rid of the guy he’s replacing, just in case the rookie flames out. Unless the guy you’re getting rid of is really bad, in which case why do the M’s want him? But I wonder if Cleveland still thinks they’re in the hunt in their division in any case.
Castilla? Isn’t he 40 years old now? No thanks. I’ll take my chances that Beltre will turn it around.
Re. #18:
My mistake.
Re. #19, #20, & #22:
Chan Ho Park and Vinny Castilla, unlike Adrian Beltre, have contracts that expire at the end of this season; Beltre’s exorbitant deal lasts through the 2009 season.
#21 Yep, that is essentially what I was suggesting. Cleveland might, and I emphasis might, want Guardado. They do need a lefty set up guy. If that is the case then Johnson might be someone the M’s would consider. I’m not a huge fan but he is a ground ball machine and with the M’s infield defense he might be appealing to Bavasi especially if he goes into $$$ saving mode. Guardado + Pineiro for Johnson and a mid level outfield prospect. I’m not sure this is the way to go but at least it makes some sense $$ wise….
[Pineiro]
Overpaid starters and relievers with jetliner ERAs do not have trade value, even if you’re the Yankees, unless you’re exchanging garbage for garbage (think the Cirillo-Jarvis trade).
And Shapiro would have to be liquored up to agree to THAT trade. Good LOOGYs aren’t that hard to come by, and there’s a fair chance Eddie is just plain done, what with the bum shoulder and all.
Yeah, I know Johnson isn’t doing well, either. The thing is he’s cheaper than Piñeiro, by a fair piece. So basically, the deal is exchangeing a bad starter for a starter who’s just as bad but even more expensive, plus an overpaid LOOGY with a frayed rotator cuff. I would fire your ass if you did that trade as my GM.
To make a trade another team has got to want what you are offering. I can’t imagine anyone wanting Pineiro or Guardado. Despite not being effective, he is Eddie is still an important part in the club house and in the bullpen talking to the young guys. We need to figure out a way to use him some way. As far as Joel is concerned, the team has some days off, maybe skip him once or twice?
Is there some reason you censored my post (#25)? Don’t tell me it was off-topic, because it wasn’t.
Yes.
Spelling, probably.
Aren’t there some teams with such weak rotations that Pineiro would be an upgrade for them?
17 – If the Seattle Mariners traded Beltre ($12.9 million) and Joel Piñeiro ($6.3 million) to the Padres for Chan Ho Park ($15 million) and Vinny Castilla ($3.2 million)  so long as the Padres paid for the remainder of Beltre’s contract  then, as far as I’m concerned, it would be a fair deal.
Remind again me why at this point the Padres would be willing to pay Beltre $35.5M after this season over the next three years?
17 – This isn’t the NBA. Expiring contracts don’t mean much in MLB.
20 -Beltre, as much as he is sucking, is one of the faces of the M’s, you see him on posters downtown and whatnot. You don’t trade that for a has-been and never really was.
I’m thinking that if the Mariners had a good opportunity to rid themselves of the $40M+ remaining on Beltre’s contract, that they would foot the bill on buying some new posters.