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The Cheater's Guide to Baseball
"Derek Zumsteg should be ashamed to have such comprehensive knowledge of the history of cheating in baseball. Pete Rose gave me two to one odds this book would become a classic." -- Allen Barra, author of The Last Coach: A Life of Paul "Bear" Bryant
This is fun
Do you remember the last time rooting for the Mariners was this enjoyable? The game was on ESPN last night, so I endured the 10:10 pm first pitch for a chance to watch the game on a real tv. A month ago, I would have been in bed. But this team, playing this way, is a joy to watch. Even when Washburn gave up the lead and we trailed 5-2, my first thought was “it’s only three runs, and the Dodgers bullpen isn’t very good.” For the first time in a while, I was anticipating a come from behind win. That’s a nice feeling.
The team is now 13-5 in June. The surge has been almost entirely due to the offense. Take a look at some of these June numbers.
Ichiro: .463/.494/.638. Also 6 SB, 0 CS. Player of the Month.
Ibanez: .348/.421/.682.
Beltre: .303/.369/.579. And just smoking the ball right now.
Those three are carrying the offense. And the guys who aren’t hitting like MVPs are still hitting. Sexson is slugging .522. Betancourt is at .317/.348/.476. Reed, Lopez, and Johjima are putting up good enough lines, considering their positions. Carl Everett is the only guy who is playing with regularity and not hitting.
All this has led to a .295/.352/.498 line for the month and the team is averaging 5.9 runs per game. You score that many runs, you’re going to win a lot. Obviously, they’ll cool off eventually, but we were optimistic about the offense going into the season, and the fact that they’ve been able to hit well for three weeks validates some of that.
This still isn’t a great team. They have some major flaws, and while this season may not end with a championship parade, they’ve made a huge step forward - it’s no longer painful to be a Mariner fan.
Hooray for hope.
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Here’s hoping King Felix helps add to the streak tonight. It’d be nice to see a KKKKKKKKKKK performance from the big guy
Finally…it sent me a password…took me 3 different email addresses and usernames before it would. First post, but i’ve been hooked on this site for about a month now. As a Mariners fan in Toronto, i’m a little hard up for mariners conversation. Looking forward to the sweep tonight…on 5 days rest felix should have his A-game, and somehow Tomko just isn’t worrying me.
Last night was so much fun. I anxiously waited for two hours for the game to start, soemthing that hasn’t happened in a long time save for the first week of the last two seasons. When they got down 5-2 in months and years past I would have turned off the game in disgust and gone to bed (living in NY, these start times are killer). But last night I figured, “Hey, Beltre’s got soem more punch in him, and it’s only three runs.”
And of course they came through. This is the first time in a long time I expect the M’s to win when the game starts. It’s a whole lot of fun.
I was thinking it would be nice, especially when playing in NL parks, to have another guy on the bench. We’ve carped on the 12 man bullpen before (In the last week, Fruto has been in one game for one inning, Guardado one game for two thirds of an inning, and Woods hasn’t pitched at all in the last 7).
At the end of last night’s game, having used 2 PH’ers and the backup catcher, there wasn’t much left. I guess there was 2 left, WFB and Petagine the unseen ghost. So it wasn’t panic time yet.
I meant 12 man pitching staff, of course. The bullpen “only” has 7 pitchers.
(note to self, duh!)
If MLB mandated that rosters could not exceed 21 players, Grover would be a much better manager.
You’re right, Dave. This has been fun to watch over the last three weeks. It’s not often that a team gets on a roll like this, and I’m enjoying it while I can.
This team has a good shot to finish the year over .500. It’s a legitimately decent team now, and that means that the M’s can start looking at adding a part or two to put them over the top for next year.
I keep hoping that the M’s won’t be that good this year, because I don’t want them to be buyers at the deadline. I’d like to see them swing a deal or two to reload for next year, y’know? I think the M’s have a good shot at the playoffs next year, and focussing on that goal would be nice.
How big was that hit by Rivera?
I know he is not loved (offensively) in this crowd, but how much of his sub-Mendoza performance is a by-product of a) No playing time and/or b) a really small sample given his lack of playing time?
I always come to this group to be schooled, so these are not rhetorical questions.
Rene Rivera’s a terrible hitter. He’s been a terrible hitter his entire career.
No one is a .121 hitter, though. So call it reversion to the mean. As my mom would say, he was due.
perhaps the mariners need another ‘wait till next year’ thread from Mr. Zumsteg to keep the flame alive. I can’t help but feel that they are one relatively easy to make change from really contending for the division: a left fielder. They no longer have Piniella to trade for one, but it does seem that one of the ‘non-essential’ members of the pitching staff (to be kind) could easily net one - Mateo, Guardado, even Piñeiro…
I do understand that the popular sentiment here is to wait for ‘Doyle’, but…
Dave’s comment captures my mood exactly. Regardless of post-season prospects, it’s *fun* watching these guys right now, although I’m still a little gun-shy about being hopeful when we suddenly go down by 3 in the 6th inning, thinking to myself: “3 runs? In only 3 innings? Dude, do the *math*.”
Hooray for hope, indeed, and hooray for one game under .500! We get to .500 tonight! We just have to. I never thought I’d be excited about that, but hey, I’ll take a bright spot and love that Texas is within kicking distance.
I had decent success derailing the A’s here in Colorado with my covert ops, and I am taking donations to help my efforts when the Rockies take on Texas starting tomorrow.
I’m concerned that we are getting too excited about wins against mediocre teams. The M’s have owned NL teams in interleague. But the NL (in general) is vastly inferior to the AL this year (and for the last few years). And we beat up on the terrible Angels. I fear that when they start playing some legitimately good AL teams, the Ms will revert to form.
But, I agree–it is fun watching the team right now. And I hope I’m wrong about them reverting to form.
Last night was very fun to watch. Beltre just loves hitting in Dodgers stadium. If we ever truly thought about unloading the guy, I’d go to LA first and see what we could get for him. The best thing about the game last night, besides the M’s winning, was being able to watch the Dodgers telecast and listen to Vin Scully. He is just a great announcer to listen to. So much better than Fizz and the Wonder-Dog over at the LA Angels of San Bernardino. I don’t care how bad Hendu, Valle, Fairly, and Rizzzzzz are, they got nothing on those two chuckleheads.
The M’s schedule til the all-star break:
@ SD, @ Arizona, vs Colorado, vs Angels, vs Detroit
Which of those teams are you afraid of?
Colorado and Detroit at times, but not to the point where we can’t take a series from both of them.
I’m not too concerned about beating up on the bad teams. That’s what a good team does. Detroit has made a living on beating up on bad teams this season. Yes, we have to start beating the good and elite teams of the league as well. I think of this time as a time of “sharpening the saw” against the bad teams. Besides, it’s all about attitude and grit, right?
D’troit
Our BP playoff expectancy is up to 6.4% Woo-hoo!!
Speaking of hope, Oregon State got a bunch last night from, literally, an ace in the hole at the CWS. A sophomore who’d started only once before shut out Rice for 6 2/3 innings on the way to a 5-0 win. Tonight in the bracket final rematch they’ve got their (possibly hurting) #1 starter Dallas Buck and two top relievers ready to go. If you watch you are sure to see some web-gem-quality defensive play. Besides which, a matchup between Beavers and Owls is something you don’t see every day.
And for all of you that voted anything other than “woo hoo!” in the interleague play question of the day a few days back, I give you this:
[wagging finger at monitor]
You know who you are.
By that same token, the M’s are not appreciably better than any of those teams (about 1.5 games better than ARI, by 3rd order winning%), and Detroit is going to be tough. How many of those teams are afraid of the Mariners?
They might not be afraid of the M’s but they are concerned with the 13-5 in june line.
With the exception of a couple of days in May, I’ve always enjoyed watching this team more than the depressing, despiriting ‘04 and ‘05 squads. Not that this is going anywhere as far as postseason goes–it’s not. Nevertheless, even when this team was losing, I felt like there was at least trace elements of a spark to them; things and people to watch that I could enjoy.
Now we’re a game away from .500, which is above my expectations for the season. This IS fun.
Dave, I hear what you’re saying, but I’m not quite there yet. I want to trust what’s happening, but my heart’s been broken by this team too many times.
That being said, I did whoop a few times in the newsroom last night.
(I cleaned it all up immediately, though.)
#20
That was me, I still think interleague play stinks, but I’ll take the wins.
Interleague would be improved if they played away-team rules instead of home-team rules…
If MLB mandated that rosters could not exceed 21 players
and outlawed bunting
, Grover would be a much better manager.
I agree on a glaring weakness in LF and being able to move Ibanez back to the DH. But even just getting any big bat we can plug in at the DH would be a big boost offensively. Raul’s not a great LF but he’s certainly not the worst. I’d love to try and move Piniero and Guardado and see if there’s anything available for them. It’s hard being within striking range of first place of the division and trying to hold back being optimistic of playing meaningful games in September.
#26 and ridiculous aggressive baserunning and platooning CF
I’m still waiting for the national media to notice that the Mariners have a shot in the division. Much of the talk of the division has centered around Oakland or Texas. Now that the media will not be spending so much time covering a sport that our country can’t play very well, maybe they will take the time to notice that the Mariners have a shot. It seems to me that Oakland always plays well early in the year and then tails off towards the end of the season. And I don’t think that Texas can win consistently enough to win the division. I think that the Mariners have a great shot at winning the division.
#29 - Oakland usually turns it on in 2nd half, actually. But you are right, we aren’t being talked about much. I am contend to go under the radar for a bit.
*I meant content. Sheesh.
It’s all fun, no doubt. And Felix on the mound tonight is icing on the cake.
Felix has been getting a little national coverage for his streak of wins (as if that alone is a measure of performance).
#29: Huh? Oakland always stinks it up in the first half and then goes on amazing runs in the second half.
Hopefully not this year!
I’ll go this far: I am finally beginning to accept the Mariners can be no better than they have been and actually win the division. From that point on, winning short playoff series — as Billy Beane knows all too painfully well — is largely a matter of luck and hot streaks. The Mariners have had their share of both.
So, okay … I accept the Mariners as a legitimate World Series champion candidate. In fact, a World Series champ that finished the regular season at 80-82 would be in the best interests of baseball. True parity will have been achieved.
A couple weeks ago i sat and watched Clemens pitch single A ball watching every pitch, ignoring the M’s. Today I’ve been force fed so much Clemens babble from the national media. I’m more eager to watch Felix make an NL team look helpless at the plate and see if the kid can hit the ball as hard as he throws it.
I’m mostly just glad about the timing of this hot streak. I’m not yet optimistic about our chances for the division, but I live in LA and this sure is fun.
I have had Dodger season tickets the last few years and I never thought I’d be a “real” Dodger fan, but Tuesday night was the first time I’ve rooted against the Dodgers from those seats.
Seeing Beltre pop that homerun was great and it reminded me of how excited I was in 2004. When the rumors started flying about the Mariners signing him I was so optimistic about their chances as they built that offseason.
Not sure if they mentioned this on the TV, but in the ninth when Cesar Izturis came in he made it to third and he and Adrian exchanged looks. It was the first time back in Dodger Stadium in a while for both of them. That was nice to see.
Even better was hearing the pop of the glove from Soriano’s pitches. I can’t wait to see Adrian continue hitting in this park tonight and my first look at Felix this season! Let’s get to .500!
(Sorry for the ramble. I just don’t get to see them as much as you guys do.)
The M’s offense has been league average for a couple of years, now. Any sort of improvement (and we’re seeing that now) was bound to make it look good.
Now if only someone had seen fit to get us decent pitching in either of the last two offseasons, given that that was the weak part of the team, we’d be easy division favourites.
34: Huh? Oakland went 11-17 in September ‘05 and 12-16 in September ‘04. I think this supports my original argument that Oakland usually tails off at the end of the season.
word.
The garantees of any baseball season:
The Yankees will have the highest payroll.
Griffey will make a trip to the DL.
Oakland will rattle off at least a 10 game win streak some time in the second half of the season.
2001, 2002, 2003 Oakland had the bes second half record in baseball. In 2004 and 2005 they kind of sluffed off in the very end but look what they did in July and August.
Mariners…Mariners…Mariners…Mariners…Mariners..
…and that’s all I have to say about that! Go Mariners!
It’s definitely a fun time to be a Mariners fan.
I’d personally like to see them be in a position to be buyers at the trade deadline as long as they make the RIGHT buys.
I’m tired of waiting for next year.
The M’s offense has been league average for a couple of years, now. Any sort of improvement (and we’re seeing that now) was bound to make it look good.
Uh, no. We got nothing last year from 33% of the lineup (2B, SS and C)- with C being by far the worst in MLB in terms of offensive performance (sub-.600 OPS). In 2004, it was 1B, DH, 2B, 3B and SS all making giant sucking sounds in the offense (sorry, Edgar).
The M’s offense was legitimately bad in 2004 and 2005. The difference is now it’s legitimately decent (if not up to St. Louis, Boston or Yankee standards), because at the 3 positions that were complete dreck last year, we have good, if not great performance. Now that Sexson and Beltre are contributing and Ichiro! is doing another stretch of awesomeness, we’re doing well.
Jim, I’m not sold that we WILL win out in the West- but we’ve got a fighting shot at it. If we’re within a handful of games of the lead and over .500 by the All-Star break, I’ll take it. It’s a damn sight better than being ready for the fork on Memorial Day, which is where we were in 2004, 2005 and very nearly were in 2006 before we started surging.
I don’t think a team going on a second-half tear is a repeatable skill.
This willy mo pena character who’s on the BoSox DL now would be a good pickup for guardado or piniero. The sox are hard up for even a decent starter, just a guy who can go six innings without giving up double digits. Pena is young, strong, and though he strikes out quite a bit, he can sure can jack a ball. And he’s only going to get better with playing time.
45: Tell that to Oakland.
I would trade Adam Jones and Jeff Clement for Carl Crawford in a heartbeat.
Just a thought.
Adam Jones & Jeff Clement for Crawford? I like Crawford as a player, but no way I’m giving up that much to get him!
As long as we’re having complete fantasies about trading with Boston, why stop with Pineiro for Pena? I think Meche for Ortiz sounds mighty attractive.
And the cornucopia of wishful thinking is now open…any chance we could get a post on some realistic trade targets if the M’s turn out to be buyers?
Beltre: .303/.369/.579. And just smoking the ball right now
heh heh heh… ohh yeah man… good stuff man…
mmm… anybody got any flapjacks?…
I heard Pujols could be had for Meche.
What up, rumor mill.
It seems like Bavasi will do something though, since he’s been operating in win-now mode for three years and this is the closest he’s been.
But unless the M’s are serious about giving up something good to get something good, it seems like Doyle will satisfy the eternal yearning for left handed sock, and help with that outfield defense thing.
On the theme of national recognition, Gammons just said on the Dan Patrick show that the AL West is up for grabs and Seattle is just as much a contender as any other team. Gammons also said the Ms have played better then the record would indicate.
46: While Piniero would probably be the better deal for the BoSox in that, I’d rather keep him and dish Guardado. Piniero has, at least occasionally, eaten up a good number of innings (when he isn’t giving up hella hits). Guardado is, as far as I’m concerned, almost useless on our current pitching staff. Our bullpen has been hot for some time now without Everyday Eddie.
What do other people think, would you rather keep Eddie or Joel?
All we need are some huge leads so that we can get Eddie in to pitch and (hopefully) make him look somewhat valuable to other teams.
could Dave or DMZ edit the post #42. I have a big monitor, but even I have to scroll to see that one.
I’m definately enjoying the teams play right now, and hoping (beyond hope) that they can build off of it. If we can streak into the All-Star break, it would be a huge boost to the teams confidence.
What is strange is that what the team needs most is a LF/1B/DH player, who is an upgrade from basically Carl Everett. I always thought that player was one of the most available typ of players in the majors, but we can’t find one. What would people think of Reggie Sanders, if he is available?
53: how exactly was trading Freddy a “win now” move? How about trading Winn for a backup catcher and a longshot, high reward prospect?
Bavasi hasn’t dealt a single prospect since becoming GM. He’s spent big money in FA because the team has it to spend, but he hasn’t been unrealistically operating as if a losing team had a chance to contend the past 3 years.
46. While you are at it, why not revisit Reed for Papelbon? The Sox are not going to sell Pena at his lowest price; he’s probably the heir to Trot Nixon’s (he of the .333 BA and .430+ OBP) right field position. Nixon is eligible for FA at the end of the season.
What do other people think, would you rather keep Eddie or Joel?
Would you rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick or kicked hard in the groin? I don’t know why either would have any trade value.
#56: Post #42 shows up fine on my screen, and I have a small monitor.
#57: Isn’t Raul Ibanez exactly the LF/DH/1B guy you’re talking about? What we need is a real LF.
Can #42 be edited — or whichever one is causeing the scroll-over.
Hmmm….#42 appears fine on my Internet Explorer, but not with my default Mozilla browser.
I’m on Internet Explorer, and it doesn’t cause me any problems.
So … I’ve been hopeful, bu Oakland keeps dashing my hopes. We’ve played them 10 times and are 1 - 9 in those games. 1 - 9! Even if we had eeked out a measley 3 - 7 (say … not getting swept in our last two series) we’d be 38 and 35, and they’d be 37 and 35. ARGH!
But I had to laugh with my wife when I was getting excited about the possibility of the M’s actually getting to 500 in late June …
Oh, how our goals have been lowered from the glory days.
Thingray - perhaps if we clone Ibanez, he is what we need. I was thinking more along the lines of moving Ibanez to the DH and having an upgrade to Everett. Perhaps somebody who can fill in at 1B, giving Sexson a rest. Bench/DFA Everett is what I would like to see.
Oh, how our goals have reverted to the ’80s.
I thought Petagine could fill the DH/sub 1B role out of ST, but he has been rotting on the bench. Or they have been grooming Morse for that type of role as well.
I agree with you though, bench or (my preference) DFA Everett before his option vests. They never should have signed him in the first place.
Petagine should be playing more, but obviously Hargrove can’t find a spot for his bat. This in spite of the fact that both Sexson and Everett haven’t been hitting all that well. But that frustration has been well documented. I guess hoping for another bat is useless since unless its a relatively big name, he won’t be used.
Oh no! The Dodgers starter for tonight has been changed to Derek Lowe (5-3, 2.98 ERA). I was looking forward to that high Tomko ERA. Of course, this might be good, for many seemingly lousy pitchers have dominated us in the past, while other much better ones (Liriano, Schmidt, Penny) could not prevail against us. When do we get to face Roger Clemens?
Either way we face a former Mariner.
Regarding trading Eddie — I’ll bet there is a GM out there somewhere that would like to get him, and would give something of value in return.
Judging from the struggle some closers are having, I’d think somebody would take a chance with him.
We’re not going to get a hotshot prospect, but we might get something decent.
Just image what the team would have been like if only they didn’t start off the season with 3 DH’s?
Very happy with how the team has been playing this month. Not likely they keep winning .722. However, with a few more weeks like this the team should be able to reach .500 for the season.
Not to mention dropping some seven million from the payroll. But really, we have a lefty specialist, a closer, dominant short relief (soriano) and pretty damn good long relief (Mateo, Green). Guardado is eminently tradeable
#73 would that GM also take Meche, Carl and Hargrove?
75: Or they could just win tonight to reach .500 for the season.
However, with a few more weeks like this the team should be able to reach .500 for the season.
Since they’re only 1 game under .500, I’m hoping it doesn’t take a few more weeks.
#57 - One guy I’ve thought about before is Aubrey Huff. He’s not a popular option here but I think realistically that’s the best value the M’s would likely get for the pitchers they’d be offering.
Sadly he’s no upgrade in the field over Ibanez.
Huff is pretty versatile, and has some pop.. That’s something that could be a realistic idea, although Tampa is known for their high price tags when trading..
.220/.306/.329. That’s Aubrey Huff this season.
And you think Carl Everett is having a bad year…
Wow. Wowee-wow-wow-wow.. (Christopher Walken)
I hadn’t seen or heard Huff’s stats this year. Never mind!
Huff has been on a tear lately, its more like 232/316/357! Though that doesn’t change your point….
$7 million salary as well. Its like paying Everett for next year anyways!
It be a risk and a heavier price tag, but Craig Wilson can be had. He would be a pretty good versatile OF with a decent bat.
We’be all been watching this, but Tango just posted MGL’s numbers which agree that Beltre is pretty good. The 6th-best infielder in all of baseball for the past 6 years, to be precise. He’s just behind Rolen as a 3B; the others are Polanco (2B/3B/SS), Adam Everett(SS), Rey Sanchez(SS) and Craig Counsell(SS). Tango says he should be worth about 1.5 wins a year above average to us.
Felix on the hill tonight in Dodger stadium facing the opposing pitcher every 3 innings? This has 2 hit shut-out wriiten all over it.
Last year in this spot we would be seeing Ryan Franklin. I just threw up in my mouth, but in a good way.
I bet if bavasi could get omar minaya good and messed up, and I’m talking the kind of cocktail Hunter S Thompson would hesitate to drink, anyway, there would be a chance he’d agree to guardado/beltre for David wright.
I really wish (not trying to pick on anyone here even though it might seem that way) that people would stop bringing Beltre’s name up in hypothetical trade situations.
You’re going to get nothing of value of him considering his current production and contract situation; it’s a sunk cost. So just wait and see if he can come back to form.
It’s not like Speizio, Cirillo, et al, who didn’t have much upside; at one point, fluke year or not, Adrian Beltre was one of the most productive hitters in baseball. You’re already in for the money, give him a chance to try to dig himself out.
And this month wasn’t a bad start.
Plus, who’s going to play third base if they trade Beltre?
I’m just glad to see that the wildly speculative trade ideas people come up with are back. In the past few years, we haven’t even been able to enjoy that.
Hey, I know! Let’s trade for Griffey and fire Hargrove and bring back Lou!!
I think I’ll call KJR and suggest that.
#91 - That might work!
Now if only Lou wasn’t old and Griffey wasn’t paid like a star player.
Steve Kelley will get that idea out there in the next few weeks.
Beltre was high-risk, high-reward. We ended up somewhere in the middle. Great defense, some hot streaks with the lumber.
It’s Sexson that concerns me more this year, and he has been consistent enough over his career that I am guessing he’ll end up somewhere back near his averages before it’s all said and done.
If we did anything, I’d like to see them get a legit LF, move Ibanez to the DH/sub LF/sub 1B role, and find a way to lose Everett. Trade him for a risk/reward prospect or two. I’m sure some team is looking for someone to fill the same role Everett had with Chicago last year.
I don’t understand why anyone thinks that any team is going to trade for Guardado. Pretty much regardless of their closer situation. Isn’t it pretty well known that he’s pitching injured?
I think we have to treat Guardado as a sunk cost as well, and just be happy his contract is up after this year. From an organizational standpoint, they didn’t (or maybe couldn’t) trade him last year when he (presumably) had more value and the team was less competitive. Why would they trade him now?
I think given how he pitched last year, if we could somehow showcase him in a few good outings at the right time, we might be able to pry something loose from another team.
Nothing spectacular mind you, but something (AA reliever maybe?)
See: Slocumb = Varitek/Lowe
Guardado might have some value as a LOOGY to some team in need of one.
Well, two points: 1) given that the team (at least for today) looks competitive, why would they deal a “proven major league closer” for a minor league pitcher? The team obviously has a higher opinion of Eddie than we do, since they took the trouble to bring him back at the team option price (higher) rather than “insulting” him by forcing him to exercise the player option for 2006. And 2) I agree it would be irresponsible if you have, say, Victor Zambrano and somebody offers you Scott Kazmir, to say no to that deal. But those deals are, what, 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?
I should have made myself clearer, I was attempting some sarcasm.
Of course you take a Slocumb=Varitek/Lowe, or a Zambrano=Kazmir deal. For the time being, Eddie isn’t really affecting the outcome of any games, so does it matter who sits at the back end of the bullpen?
If we get offered something good, take it. If not, so what?
Maybe there is some team out there that is contending, but needs a little more chemistry to win the division. Or a clubhouse prankster! Didn’t the Nationals just fire John Wetteland for being a little too overzealous with the pranks? Perhaps they could use a seasoned pie-throwing veteran.
Trade him to the Rockies, his pies will fly farther in the thin air!
Why not make a run for this now before the July bidding starts. The D-Train is rumored to be trade bait, go Morrow for Willis. Marlins get a #5 and a free pitcher for a few years and if we can get a contract extension on Willis (condition of deal)a proven starter.
Everett is going nowhere. I have to believe that the M’s are just tickled with his grit and such. Why shoot, off the bench HR got the team started, right?
Actually most of us in Colorado keep our pies in a humidor so they will fly the same as they will sea level.
#103– FWIW, “Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said he has called the Marlins about Dontrelle Willis, “but he is just not a player who is available.”"
98 - Guardado might have some value as a LOOGY to some team in need of one.
Guardado has historically been outstanding against lefties. Maybe he would have some value to us as a second LOOGY to complement Sherill. Keeping two left specialists would come in especially handy facing the Yankees and/or Red Sox in the playoffs.
#104: I figured somebody would bring that up!
#103: Last I heard the Marlins were asking for the moon and the stars for D-Train. No way we have enough to offer (reasonably).
#103 - Aside from the fact that Morrow can’t be traded until next year because we just drafted him I don’t think the Marlins would bite on that. They want more. They’re kinda greedy.
103: The Marlins would want at the very least Clement and Morrow plus probably Reed/Jones/Lopez for Willis.
Willis is popular there and it would be a big PR hit to trade him but the “Destroyer of Franchises” has never let that bother him. Rumors of his availability continue to persist. What I am really getting at is that let’s not wait to see how we are going to do, let’s take avantage now with what ever resources we have to pry our needs out of other clubs and make a run at this winnable division now. This team is poorly built and will be streaky if left alone, fix some problems if we can and not wait.
I don’t think that asking for more than Morrow for Willis (given a contract extension) is being greedy. Willis is a top of the rotation starter, Morrow is a prospect.
Willis is also fun to watch–that doesn’t always translate to more fans but many general managers seem to think it does and that would add to his asking price.
108 Thanks, I didn’t realize that picks were not tradeable once signed for a year. Hmm.
The most likely upgrade that the Mariners are going to get in the next month or so is Doyle for Everett. When Doyle proves he’s healthy, the M’s move or bench Everett and either Ibanez comes in to DH with Doyle in LF or vice-versa.
Other than Everett, who might command a B-grade prospect, the M’s don’t have much that is of trade interest to anyone. Mateo and/or Guardado might also have some value, but I doubt it. Someone might take a flier on Meche or Pineiro, but that’s likely to be a desperation deal. The M’s can’t afford to trade more than one of those two as they don’t have anyone to fill the gap unless they find a starter on the waiver wire. Good luck with that.
I suspect this will be a quiet deadline year, they’ll finish around .500 and the M’s will reload in the offseason for next year’s run.
Guardado
Trading away to farm to aquire Willis when we are still under .500 in JUNE is why fans don’t make good GM’s. Seattle is a young team that has shown streaks of greatness, and streaks of incompetance. Just last week the only thing you could find on this board was how we needed to fire Grover, now the discussion is how we should trade everything away to aquire Willis?!?!?!?
2006 is going to be an exciting year, don’t get me wrong. But just because we are winning a few games now instead of sucking it up every night doesn’t mean this team is ready for sizing their World Series Rings. If the team is 3.5 games out at the end of July, then maybe its time to talk.
I would rather have a team that is built to contend next year then to trade away vital pieces for tomorrow, just to sneak in the playoffs and get swept out of the first round.
I meant to state in mathematical symbols, Guardado (is less than) Slocumb. At least until he halves his 2.8 HR/9 rate.
Everett’s vesting option, unless it is Mariner specific kills his trade value. Besides, I am still betting they are just tickled with him, he is doing what he has always done so why would they bench him? If they want to win this, now is the time, Bavasi must find a a way somehow to do that. Pineiro, Meche and Washburn are reeling, supported by a resurgent but fragile offense. The trade values will have to come from the Minors, few of what we have in the big club has much value. If they cannot find upgrade replacements for Piniero and Meche, this run will flatten out or fade.
Not talking rent a players, I did note that an extension would be a need. Did not realize that Morrow was not trade eligible but he is a prospect for a proven player. Playoffs,as was noted earlier are funny things. Get in and see what happens. KC sucked as a team when they whooped Detroit and St Louis. At least one of the Twins teams wasn’t all that great. If upgrades in starting pitching can be had now and stay with the team, why not do it? If not, stay the course but be prepared for ups and downs. Some of the base running now is paying off but it is still crap baseball. It’ll come back to bite. Grover still should go…
I don’t think Florida will trade Willis. As was stated earlier, he is the face of their franchise, and they are desperately fighting for a new stadium.
Plus, they have been on a nice little run lately, so why would they trade the top of their rotation away?
From our side, I agree completely with #115. Please don’t trade the few promising players we have in the minors for a run to early playoff elimination!
We would have to give away far too much to get Willis, and such moves would no doubt certainly come back to hurt us in the long-run. Plus, since he’s been pitching in the NL I would be curious to see how effective he would remain switching to the AL (how often have we seen a player improve when he moves from the senior to the junior circuit? Almost never.) No, if we want to contend this year without damaging the nice young team that is developing before our eyes the move ought to be to pick up another solid bat. We could maybe do that by dealing Guardado or Joel.
2008:
C: Clement
1B: Sexson
2B: Lopez
3B: Beltre
SS: Betancourt
RF: Ichiro
CF: Jones
LF: Doyle
DH: Ibanez(?)
SP: Felix
SP: Morrow
SP: Soriano
SP: Cruceta(?)
SP: Blackely
Closer: Putz
I’m not going to try to go through the bullpen, and I may have rectal-cranial fusion, but without considering trades or free agents, I’d be pretty psyched to watch that team in 2008.
Feel free to blast me from both sides, since I’m sure I made some lousy ass-umptions or guesses somewhere in that lineup!
Plus, who’s going to play third base if they trade Beltre?
Hmmmmm…is there somebody on the roster gritty enough to handle the position?
Maybe it’s just me preparing for my annual post Trade Deadline depression. I am excited for the first time in 2 years (I know, we’ve been beating up on crap teams but hey, better the windshield than the bug)and would like to see this thing build. I still think the team is poorly built (no bench, great issues with starting pitching, exessively large bull pen and a no decision is a good decision manager)but there is hope. When we get to the post All Star break schedule, I think our world will come crashing down unless we somehow improve now.
Can’t believe the M’s are one game away from .500. Even Ichiro is showing more personality and seems really loose. Bodes well for the second half.
My favorite trend right now is Jeremy Reed’s batting average starting to converge with Bloomquist’s. Grover may be a dinosaur but I’m pretty sure he understands what a batting average is. Oh how I would love to see that platoon go away. For all his hustle, Bloomie has managed an absurd 2 doubles and a triple this year, while Reed has 5 doubles, 4 triples and 5 HRs. There’s only 30 points of BA between them.
Reed does love SoCal…
Just a little prediction of tonights game: If the Dodgers get a chance they may knock Johjima down after the way he watched his HR leave last night. I’m not saying what he did was right or wrong, it just looked like the Dodger catcher didn’t appreciate it.
Hey, I know! Let’s trade for Griffey and fire Hargrove and bring back Lou!!
If bringing back Griffey is what it takes to get rid of Hargrove, I say do it! Hey, we traded a manager for an OF once before.
“It’s no longer painful to be a Mariner.”
What a great marketing slogan! Somebody call the Mariners PR department ASAP.
Correction.
Should read: “It’s no longer painful to be a Mariner fan.â€
I think if Johjima was going to get any chin music, it probably would have been last night.. Didn’t he have an at-bat after the HR?
#115. They still need to fire Hargrove–he’s too doctrinaire for a team that needs a manager who can improvise. They most especially need to fire Lincoln and Armstrong.
However, few managements make significant front office or on the field moves in the midst of a hot streak and most fans are perfectly happy as long as the team is winning, so suggestions for a shake-up will most definitely fall on deaf ears and would be almost a textbook example of a waste of breath.
That being said, it’s never the wrong time to fire Hargrove, Lincoln, and/or Armstrong.
#132– and FWIW, none of the 4 papers around LA felt it was worth a mention.
I know there is some “tension” between Maniner management and Pat Gillick, but….Dave, DMZ and others, what would it take for the M’s to get Bobby Abreu. Yes he is very, very expessive for this year and next…but it sounds like Gillick wants him gone. Gillick may actually like Pineiro or Meche or Eddie or some of our worthless AAAA pitchers (Clint, Baek, or..), and Gillick ate a lot of Thome’s contract to get rid of him. Thoughts?
#126: It looked to me like Joh’s homer was one of those “no-doubt-about-the-distance” shots where it just has to stay fair. My initial reaction to the way he stood there and looked at it was that he didn’t think it was going to stay fair.
But that was just my read on it, like you say, maybe the Dodgers saw something else.
Also, hasn’t it been a while since Joh hit one out? Maybe he was just surprised?
Strange stat of the week - yet another reason to be a Mariner’s fan.
Of the top AL hitters hitting the most triples, the Mariners are 5 the top 10: Ichiro, Lopez, Ibanez, Reed & Betancourt
I’m not sure what this means. I wonder how many runners have been thrown out stretching trying to strecth a double this year?
Johjima’s chin music:
Perhaps, that same thought crossed my mind. But it wasn’t clear whether it was a homer or foul (every single announcer got the call wrong, in fact), so if they fault him for watching a ball possibly go foul, so be it. We can make a quick in-game trade for David Riske.
Oh wait, he’s suspended! Can’t you see the irony, Guillen?!!
If anybody saw the camera shot of Johjima in the dugout after the HR, it looked he was gesturing that he thought it was going to be foul, and was suprised when it stayed fair for a HR…
Seriously, Joh should have started running. If you’re not sure it’s a foul ball you run. I was little taken aback myself to see him just standing there.
You could tell that to almost every player in MLB. They constantly stand and watch, and don’t run out ground balls or fly balls.
I agree though, I think they are paid enough to run out every ball, no matter what.
I pay to pay rec league softball, and I run on every ball until I’m called out or it’s called foul.
That should be “I pay to PLAY”, sorry..
If it was a fair ball, he wasn’t going to have to run, and if it was foul, he also wasn’t going to have to run. Why start running? The catcher was doing exactly the same thing as Joh was, watching whether the ball was fair or not.
I remember some little thing in the media a few years ago, when Piazza hit a very long, obviously foul ball that started to bend backwards fair territory until it eventually went clear of the pole. Watching it, the other catcher said something like “I hit golf balls that hook like that and I hate it.” Piazza grinned and said “So do I” before he took off to jog around the bases. (It might have been slice rather than hook — I could figure it out but who cares). I don’t think it’s that unusual to do that. You don’t see them start out of the box on hard-but-obvious fouls, so at what point is it no longer obvious? And it’s not unusal for the catcher to bark at a batter, either; I’m not surprised he did here — it’s almost pro forma, like booing the opposing pitcher when he throws to first. Don’t forget Joh is considered a rookie this year despite his Japanese experience, and putting rookies in their place is SOP; Martin, the Dodger catcher, is a rookie too so may be especially mindful of this (and as we all know, the bullied often become bullies themselves). The Dodgers also seem to be getting a little stressed by this series — in the thick of a tight division, getting rocked by an offense-impaired Seattle team led by the returning Beltre. I’d mark it down to either an excitable player on an angry team, or nothing more than a little formality; either way, it’s meaningless. I doubt Joh is giving it half the thought the rest of us have (though maybe Hargrove did — why did he sub in Rivera?). Hopefully Joh will go out and smack another clear dinger and take off around the bases.
BTW, who broke the page? It works under IE, but under FF and Opera all the text on this page extends off both horizontal edges (which almost certainly means IE is misinterpreting the CSS spec in a way that happens to render correctly). I don’t see a super-long link or image or anything in posts. The other pages here at USSM (such as last night’s game thread) work fine on both “alternative” browsers.
Antonio Alfonseca would be a good addition to the Mariners bullpen. I think they should claim him of waivers.
This page works fine in Safari for me on Mac OS X (10.4).
El Pulpo alongside El Guapo in the bullpen?
Re 121: Clement as C
Doubt it. I have a feeling Clement ends up a full time 1B / DH and a part time catcher.
Any thought of entering the Alfonso Soriano sweepstakes? Then I wouldn’t have to watch C-rex waddle to the batters box as often.
I hope not. Another overpriced hitter with sorry defense.
Soriano is a counting-stats illusion. Then again, ring up enough of those, and the rest doesn’t much matter. Except for his monstrously overpriced contract, that is.
Soriano is hitting .286/.348/.575 in an extreme pitcher’s park. Contract year or not, he’s been freaking awesome so far in ‘06.
He’s in an extreme pitcher’s park, but he’s hitting much better at home: .366 OBP, .619 SLG. I don’t say that to discount his performance, just to note that we might not expect the same performance from him in our park.
Re #148: At this point, there’s no reason not to expect Clement to catch in the majors. He won’t be Bob Boone back there, but he isn’t going to be Mike Piazza/Ted Simmons/Earl Johnson, either.