Derek In Lights
Dave · August 10, 2006 at 11:01 am · Filed Under Mariners
Our own esteemed colleague, Derek Zumsteg, has an article up over at ESPN’s Page 2, dealing with the putrid theft being put on by the Chicago Cubs. As with any piece by DMZ, there are some terrific one liners that will have you cracking up at your desk, so proceed with caution if you’re not in a location where laughing is an acceptable behavior.
Nice job, D.
Way to rep yo’ hood, DMZ! Every hypothetical price-gouging idea sent a shiver down my spine, due to how incredibly likely each one could come to pass within the next few years. Seriously, if teams can scalp their own tickets, what’s to stop them from advertising lower prices for tickets, then just buying them all up and scalping them at an exponential rate? Keep up the good work, Z-man!
Nice article Derek! And…the name of the book is finally revealed!
Hey, I really love my Everett jersey, thank you very much! Congrats D!
Conor, I thought the same thing. What a great title for a book! And honestly, who out there doesn’t already own both a home AND away Everett jersey? Just me? Oh…
Basically: “price discrimination is bad.” Humorous case studies to follow.
Despite the assertion that it is, I’m not sure how the Cubs’ scheme violates any federal anti-trust law since the Robinson Patman Act applies to tangible goods. Are tickets tangible goods?
Also, the examples of charging different prices based on the characteristics of individual consumers are not really applicable to sales of tickets through brokers. The first is price discrimination, the second is an auction and a market. Whatever problems a market presents, those problems are not the same as those presented by price discrimination.
As for the Cubs’ situation, their set-up could just as easily be evidence of how silly the scalping laws are. People pay more for tickets than face value now. They just don’t always pay money. People who can wait in line for tickets or parking get the good seats or spots as opposed to people who have money. Maybe allocating tickets to people who have the time to stand in line, rather than the money to pay scalpers’ prices, is good because a poor crowd tends to be a fun crowd and a crowd that devoted time to getting tickets might be more enthusiastic. But, I could see it go the other way.
Whatever, Derek’s writing is always a fun read.
“if teams can scalp their own tickets, what’s to stop them from advertising lower prices for tickets, then just buying them all up and scalping them at an exponential rate?”
The same thing that keeps them from selling tickets at higher prices now. Eventually, they’ll run out of people willing to pay the price.
I’d almost prefer the team to buy its own tickets and let the price float.
Cool! That’s the joy of capitalism. Perhaps we could combine that with reality TV where the fan can have a larger role in the game. Say for example it’s the bottom of the eight with the M’s down 3-2 and a runner on second. Willie Bloomquist steps up to bat against a right handed pitcher. Across the scoreboard flashes a sign: “Should Hargrove bring in a pinch hitter? Swipe your Visa or MasterCard now to make your selection: a) no pinch hitter necessary, Willie’s awesome! b) pinch hit the sweet swinging Greg Dobbs or c) pinch hit Ben Broussard”. Whichever selection racks up the most money for the team is picked by the manager. That way the fans get the most for their money and no one has to second guess the manager!
…or (d) chip in to sign some better players than Bloomquist, Dobbs or Broussard.
By the way, who is Big Ben and why should he wear a helmet on Saturday?
Roethlisberger? Sorry, just figured it out. I’m slow today.
Eugene, I actually like that idea until I remember how many non-USSMariner readers are out there and how many fools I run into at stadiums across the country. At a Nationals game last month, the guy behind me actually argued for 3 innings that the Nats should move Soriano to catcher because “he learned the outfield so fast, I’m sure he could catch easily. Plus Schneider sucks.” Then he went on a rant about how if the ownership was smart, they’d swap Zimmerman for Wright since the Mets would easily make that trade.
I think if we started letting the fans vote, there would be a massive increase in better educated fans committing suicide.
I’d almost prefer the team to buy its own tickets and let the price float.
I certainly don’t mind the team pricing tickets at whatever price they feel they can get. However, I do mind them doing it in such a way that completely skirts the revenue sharing system. Call me crazy, but if teams are going to actually agree to revenue sharing, then they should, you know, share their revenue.
Nice article with many chuckles; the phrase “dynamic pricing” is a favorite and reminds me of a certain club dynamically shoe-horning in some centerfield bleachers as that was best for the consumer.
I think that MLB TV territorial restrictions certainly continue to be “dynamic” as well.
When is MLB or an association of these innovative and dynamic Wrigley Field Premium Tickets-like organizations going to sue Stub Hub? Or maybe they are already receiving some dynamic licensing fees from them…
Got to give the NFL a little credit for at least not hiring one of its own car-dealing owners to be their new commissioner.
Congrats on the lights, DMZ.
I really don’t understand the execution/effectiveness of anti-scalping measures in general, but it was a funny article nonetheless.
Hey, we finally found out the title of DMZ’s book.
According to the only hit on google, it is:
The Cheater’s Guide to Baseball (Houghton Mifflin)
A spirited romp through baseball history focusing on the game’s greatest cheaters and plays fans love to watch but which are actually against the rules.
All Gaylord Perry, all the time?
Ben,
You missed a major part of the point. Sure the Yankees or Cubs could just sell all their tickets like ebay auctions and get $400 a ticket if the market will bear it. But that isn’t the only thing they are doing. Setting up the phony 3rd party ticket broker lets them hide that income and avoid the revenue sharing implications. They should be considered in violation of the CBA that exists between major league baseball teams.
Maybe instead of fans suing it should be the Royals and D-Rays.
That article reminds me of when Hunter S Thompson used to write for Page 2 (and I mean that as a compliment, if you’re not a fan).
I dunno, I saw Derek In Lights and I thought it meant Derek was going into show business…
Overture, curtain, lights!
This is it…
We’ll hit the heights!
And oh, what heights we’ll hit!
On with the show, this is it!
6- I’d almost prefer the team to buy its own tickets and let the price float.
As pointed out in the article it’s completely illegal. If club box seats are advertised at $54 and the team has club box seats available I should legally be able to buy them for that price. They are basically saying that we do have $54 club box seats for sale, but you have to buy them from us over here for $180.
However, I see it as no different from what the Seahawks do by placing their playoff tickets on Stubhub for higher prices rather than offering them to the general public at the normal ticket rate.
Great article, Derek.
And to me, the question of whether this is illegal or not is one I’m not educated enough about to have a rational discussion on; but it is certainly staggeringly unethical.
Or, like at yesterday’s game, they give out Eddie Guardardo baseball cards with a straight face.
My 6 yr old son, who doesn’t follow the transaction wire, looked at me and said “Look Daddy, I got evil Eddie!”.
The fan management scheme has been tried before. By the St. Louis Browns for one game in 1951 (thought up by Bill Veeck, who else?) and this year by a minor league team, the Schaumberg (IL) Flyers
see article
#22– too bad they never got that film version of “Veeck as in wreck” off the ground…
…Seahawks do by placing their playoff tickets on Stubhub for higher prices rather than offering them to the general public at the normal ticket rate.
Didn’t the Seahawks sell the tickets through Ticketmaster? They have a link on their site to one of those broker sites, but I don’t think they sell the tickets themselves.
24- Didn’t the Seahawks sell the tickets through Ticketmaster? They have a link on their site to one of those broker sites, but I don’t think they sell the tickets themselves.
My mistake. It is RazorGator and not Stubhub.
Follow the Hawks link for tickets through RazorGator. Click on any regular season game (Regular season Raiders game is a good one). The “HOT SEATS” section shows hundreds of available tickets well above market price. These seats were obviously not available to the general public.
“Instead of pricing a seat at $50 a game and seeing a ridiculous third taken away through revenue sharing to fund the infant-like flailing of the Royals”
That made me actually LOL. Nice work.
I am stunned that this is legal. Pretty much disgusting.
It’s time to start the music. It’s time to light the lights.
These seats were obviously not available to the general public.
I’m pretty sure these are just season tickets that some enterprising scalpers bought a year or more ago, not tickets held back by the Seahawks. The Seahawks do link to that site (probably for a fee) but that doesn’t mean they are selling the tickets themselves.
And if the team is allowed to scalp their own tickets, why did Mike “Fill Yer Belly Deli” Tice get busted for scalping his Super Bowl tickets?
Also on ESPN (don’t ask me to put in the link or I’ll be deleted for a long link), Rob Neyer, in his National League what if’s column, admits he was wrong. He admits that Adrian Beltre has been one of the best 3rd baseman in baseball since June 1. (Apparently it took a lot of e-mails).
Yes, #16, I did totally miss the evasion of revenue sharing.
But, that concern, although clearly legitimate, is not one that falls within the set of concerns that a court can address from a fan’s perspective. The other baseball owners would have to address it through the same contractual mechanisms through which they enforce revenue sharing.
And, yes, #19, the practice probably should be illegal under current laws. I shouldn’t be able to do through an agent what I cannot do myself. But, the laws may be stupid in the first place.
What’s the difference between a variable pricing scheme for sporting events, and how the airline companies price their tix? Not saying that should be legal, especially the practice of overbooking, but there does seem to be some precedent.
#30
I’m with you on scalping, I’ve always thought it was stupid to ban it, we aren’t talking about price gouging on milk during a natural disaster here it is an optional luxury for people to go to sporting events. I think the hiding revenue aspect of it is the real story.
I read that the MLBPA and MLB are talking about revenue sharing in the current negotiations for a new agreement, with use of the revenue sharing money a particular topic. Perhaps it is the MLBPA who could address this issue most effectively.
Also, the link to DMZ’s archives on ESPN page 2 was interesting. His 2002 article on the Angels was pretty prescient.
What if we thought about dynamic pricing as lower prices when we play crappy teams?
I’d pay $10 to sit behind home plate if we were playing the Royals.
Good for Neyer.
#34 – Congrats on being the first person today to force me to look up a word on Dictionary.com.
36 – Was that word “crappy”?
ADAM JONES!!
I posted in the wrong thread! Haha
What if we thought about dynamic pricing as lower prices when we play crappy teams?
They already sort of do that by not having as many discount tickets against Yanks/Red Sox and more discount tickets during weeknight games that people are less likely to attend. But there are definitely teams that are even more proactive than that.
And this is why people shouldn’t whine about regular ticket scalpers, especially unorganized ones. Yeah, it’s going to cost more than face value, but it’s preferable to having the club scalp.
28 – I’m pretty sure these are just season tickets that some enterprising scalpers bought a year or more ago, not tickets held back by the Seahawks. The Seahawks do link to that site (probably for a fee) but that doesn’t mean they are selling the tickets themselves.
Perhaps. I’m suspicious because I see no way for a scalper to get their tickets listed in the “HOT SEATS” section of Razorgator. As far as I can tell, people selling tickets are relegated to the white pages listed under “HOT SEATS”. Some of these listings have up to 50 seats available in a single section. I
A number of teams (well the Cubs, Phillies, and Giants at least) have gone to an open tiered pricing structure depending on the perceived demand for the game. There are “regular” prices as well as value dates and premium dates. Value dates are mid-week in April for example, and the Cubs actually offer a 50% discount on most seats. In theory, premium games (for the Mariners) would be Red Sox, Yankees, Blue Jays, interleague play, and perhaps July and August weekends; for the Cubs it turns out that more than half of their games are “premium” games where they charge 20% more.
I’ve always been surprised this hadn’t happened long ago — why charge the same for a Kansas City game on Tuesday in April as a Yankee game on Saturday in August? Yes there are some discounts and promos for the former, but it still doesn’t balance the demand. I guess as Mariners fans, we should consider ourselves lucky that the good games are so “cheap”.
What a great idea! In fact, I’m going to sell my USSMariner posts to dummy corporation, which will then resell them to USSMariner and give me the money! (And the bathroom idea won’t work. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the early 70s that pay toilets deprived people of happiness, contrary to the Declaration of Independence’s proclamation that all men were entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.