Game 132, Angels at Mariners
Dave · August 29, 2006 at 6:49 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Weaver vs Washburn, 7:05 pm.
For various reasons, I’d really, really like to see the M’s put a beatdown on Jered Weaver. He’s going to have a 2 IP, 8 H, 7 R performance sooner or later, and I’d love for it to be sooner.
M’s run out the ultimate 2006 Mariner line-up:
1. Ichiro, CF
2. Snelling, RF
3. Beltre, 3B
4. Ibanez, LF
5. Sexson, 1B
6. Broussard, DH
7. Johjima, C
8. Lopez, 2B
9. Betancourt, SS
For the first time in, well, this year, the team isn’t running out an automatic out somewhere in the line-up. 1 through 9, everyone can hit, at least a little bit.
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Tonight’s FSN pregame show has been lamer than ever. They must have gotten some sort of $$ for having the Dodge truck giveaway televeised.
Yes, the M’s lineup rocks.
1. Agree about the line-up. Wish we’d had something close to it all year…. I have to stop doing that.
2. Completely agree about Weaver… I want this win more than any since the last time we faced him. Probably for the same reasons as you, with one extra: I can’t turn on the radio without hearing about him here in L.A. and I am sick to death of it.
I hope he loses and loses badly.
And Doyle is just the man to make it happen.
So, if we were run the table, could we still catch Oakland and win the division?
I think the odds would still be against us. Man, losing 14 of 17 really smarts.
Understand fans come late: but if that Dodge give away was live, there are more spiders in my room than bodies in seats.
Dave, another home run in the previous information. Thankyou
3. No chance but we can finish off the season on a good note
Agree with everyone, lineup looks great
Odds against us is an understatement.
From Baseball Prospectus, simulating the restof the season a mllion times, the M’s have a .01533% chance of making the playoffs. That’s not 1.5 chances in 100, that’s 1.5 in 10,000.
Dave N. has a wardrobe made for radio. But I don’t care – I’ll listen to his broadcasts as long as he’s around.
Ah, another game listening to Physioc and Hudler. This is going to be tough.
By ‘run the table’ I mean 2x-0 to close out the season.
8: You are aware that there exists a mute button on most remotes. In this case, I highly suggest that you use it.
Still can’t make it unless the Angels, A’s and Rangers all collapse
That’s terrible Johjima.
AGHALSDGHALGH
Running the table would mean winning the next 31 games… and we would end up at 93-69. Oakland only has to win 18 of their games to do that.
We would have a good chance if we did win the next 31.
But we could also win 31 in a row and not win the division. That’s sad.
Say, how are our tiebreakers with Oakland?
E-2
OMG Pocket Lint was right!
Damnit!
That was horrible!
So, if I was doing a Charting Jarrod project, it would look something like this:
FB, 89
FB, 89
FB, 89
FB, 89
FB, 89
FB, 89
FB, 89
Oh, you get the point. How he ever gets anyone out is beyond me.
Say, how are our tiebreakers with Oakland?
You mean this year?
OMG Pocket Lint was right!
Now THAT’S funny!
They give him too much credit
Wow. The Mariners are not so good.
I can’t believe Washburn got a K. That makes my day.
Ichiro!!!
Ichiro!!!!
I love it when he does that.
ICHIRO!!
Bwahahaha.
19 Not only that, he pitches up, up ,up.
ICHIRO!
Ichiro heals all wounds.
Now THATS leadership!
ICHIRO power!
I guess Ichiro was lookin’ for that 89 mph fastball.
But look at it this way: assuming a cerain amount of intelligence (ie, Hargrove gets fired and whoever replaces him has a clue) and a reasonable amount of good fortune (people stay healthy) this could be the starting lineup next year (or, it could even be better if, for instance, the M’s pick up a corner outfielder with a good bat who can rotate with Ibanez/Doyle, or Jones gets some more practice in that position and comes back up and hits to his potential). And we can only assume the rotation will get better too. So let us pretend that this is a sneak preview, and reset all the stats to zero starting with this homestand and see how the winning percentage goes for the rest of the year.
Well at least Ichiro! pulls Joh’s butt out of the fire with that blast.
hmmm….knee jerk reaction blogging: CF makes Ichiro a better player
That was a Washburn pitch, 89 FB down the pipe
Doyle!!!!
BUH YAH!!!!
ICHIRO!
DOYLE!
Oh yea baby, back to back!
DOYLE!! back2back
Doyle!!!
Bwahahahaha.
Oh god…this is GLORIOUS!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Awesome!
I love that even more!
Take that, you Weaver!
Dammit guys, hit a few singles in between going yard, okay?
HOLY WOW!!!
Nothing like a Doyle Dinger..and back to back to boot!
holy cow that ball was pissed on!
DOYLE!
See how Doyle followed ICHIRO’s! leadership example?
BELTRE!!!!!!!!!!!
NO WAY!!! ahhhhhhhh
al;shg!!! so close….
wow i thought that was back to back to back
My heart just about came outta my chest there.
Holy crap.
For various reasons, I’d really, really like to see the M’s put a beatdown on Jered Weaver. He’s going to have a 2 IP, 8 H, 7 R performance sooner or later, and I’d love for it to be sooner.
So, how’s it look so far?
WOOOOOOT!
Belt…Oh!
Wow, the servers survived a Doyle! homerun.
ICHIRO!
DOYLE!
BELTR… aw nevermind stupid Safceo…
Beltre, just didn’t try hard enough. Maybe he needs to be a clubhouse leader, and that ball is out of here.
Oh soooooo close. So so close!
DAMNIT!
Has somebody been slipping our lineup Dave’s comments?
I don’t know how many of you have taken a look at Halos Heaven, but it is the biggest collection of retarded baseball fans I have ever seen. I somehow don’t think it’s a coincidence that it is an Angels blog.
Are we watching the right Weaver right now?
Had they gone back-to-back-to-back, doesn’t somebody win a house?
anybody seen victor conte around safeco tonight?
Damn..that was almost 3 in a row…
Weaver..wow..Dave, I think you put the mojo on him or something. Do you have a Weaver Voodoo doll we don’t know about?
FWIW, something I put together-
Adrian Beltre by the month in 2006
……….avg obp slg ops
April…..189 284 233 518
May…..264 302 355 656
June…..324 387 611 998
July……260 327 440 767 (poor before All Star Break)
August..294 355 612 967 thru Aug 26th
Total….266 332 448 780 thru Aug 26th
boy, Dave, you need to ask for things more often
I repeat, bwahahahaha.
I’m enjoying this so much.
HAH….me liking your karma, Dave
Dear Bill Simmons:
Want to rethink your Jered Lust and your Felix Hate?
We’re the best team ever!
I swear, Dave is a Daniel come to baseball judgment on Mr. Weaver.
64
I don’t know, there are some pretty retarded Mariners fan sites too.
Dave “And it’s three to nothing Mariners.” looks like Dave is getting to excited here.
47: Or some doubles. That’d be good, too.
I have never known such happiness.
I think Weaver’s getting a little gun-shy on that 4-seamer.
So we have one poster last night, who absolutely dumps on Felix and the result is his first CG shutout; tonight, Dave dumps on Weaver and the results are, well, kind of the opposite. There’s some kind of juju going around, but I can’t figure it out.
Possible ways for this inning to get any better:
Dan Rohn hits Mike Hargrove over the head with a steel chair, WWF style, and takes over as manager.
That’s about it.
Big Sexy is gonna jack one outta here.
Next time he comes up to bat.
after all the bad baseball Dave has had watch since ‘77, he’s allowed to get excited by good things happening.
Which Weaver brother is pitching tonight?
oh man, assclown rides again.
ugh..Hudler..there goes more IQ points out the window..
Get the assclown off of my television.
Hendu > Hudler????
Hmmm, is this the first time Weaver’s pitched with the temps below 65?
Those clips they show of Hudler are hysterical. At least when you’re pounding the Angels brains out.
These Mariners kick ass.
“Young punk?”
Holy crap, Wonder Dawg needs to be put back on his meds. I give hime credit though, at least he’s a obvious phony, unlike say…
#85– Niehaus, that is. Our Dave hasn’t been around that long.
[shudder] Hudler. bleagh.
90 – As hard as it is to believe… yes. And it’s not even really close.
The only guy worse than Hudler I can think of is that White Sox idiot.
Hendu > Hudler????
Yes. I’m afraid there is a color guy worse that Hendu.
So how do you quantify that AB? 2 inches from an RBI double, then K’s. The K is a macro stat that doesn’t capture the true dynamics of the AB (tongue in cheek, mind you)
I’ve followed this site for 2 seasons now and have not, until this week, fully appreciated all the barely-suppressed hysterical enthusiasm about Doyle. Let me just say this: sign me up for the prayer circle for his continued good health.
96: I think you’re talking about Ken “Hawk” Harrelson. The color guy for CWS is DJ (they call him that, I can’t remember his name), and he is much less offensive to my ears that Hawk.
I’ve completely forgotten about Johjima’s gaff.
So Beltre now has passed Johjima in OPS. He is behind only Ibanez in Mariner regular’s OPS.
Second.
So can I stop logging on to ESPN or CNNSI to see Beltre on the “year’s biggest busts” lists?
Can someone get the word out, please?
96
ThisWhite Sox Idiot?
Why doesn’t Hendu have one of these?
100 – Yep. That’s exactly who I mean. The Hawk. Holy crap, he’s bad.
I like Hawk. He’s a douchebag, and he has some ridiculous sayings, but he’s good.
Well, if Corco says he’s good…
105> For a douchebag, Hawk’s the best.
My whole early childhood was spent listening to Hawk, as my Dad was a rabid White Sox Fan, so his voice just sounds like “home” to me.
That half-inning for the M’s had an interesting progression:
1. HR to RC
2. HR to R
3. Missed HR by inch
4. Hustle Double
5. Weak Grounder
6. Missed Double by 2 inches, K
7. foul out to catcher…
the karma slowly degenerated
Growing up with the sound of the Hawk signifying ‘home’ to you: further evidence of rampant child abuse in America.
Still, its fun to see what happens when your lineup doesn’t include several automatic outs. Wonder if this made any impression whatsoever on Dudley.
you forgot ‘Magic Visit to Mound’ by Bud Black.
speaking of Bud Black… he is a Longview native, and has a solid rep in the local area as a baseball man, but a well-deserved rep as an arrogant jerk…
That doesn’t necessarily disqualify him for managerial status, but I wouldn’t stump for his nomination
Y’know, it’s not the back-to-back homers that make me think Weaver’s going to have a very bad game. It’s the walk to YuBet. YuBet’s just about the toughest guy in baseball to walk. That takes effort.
On that HeaveTheHawk site on the side bar they have a link that says “DJ Sucks Too.” I love that.
Did anyone see CNNSI.com’s player poll for Best/Worst Manager in baseball?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/players/08/22/poll.0822/index.html
For Worst Manager, Hargrove is ranked 3rd worst and Scioscia is 10th.. funny thing is, Scioscia is also ranked 8th BEST by the players
Betancourt does know how to walk (15th BB in 445 ABs). Has Doyle been rubbing off on everybody?
This is shaping up to be the kind of confrontation that, should it occur in an alley behind a bar, you’d find the pitcher’s teeth scattered around the dumpster come sunrise.
Ichiro takes golf lessons
Ah, come on. Don’t make Doyle bunt!
He’s bunting? With his knee? And his swing? Was he trying to pull in the infielders or something? Or is this just Hargrove being Hargrove?
116: I like how Dusty Baker is still listed as the Giants manager.
I have come to the conclusion that Hargrove should be fired.
123
Good, you get a cookie.
Figgins should get hit by a pitch every game just for calling himself “Chone”.
I like cookies.
RRRRRRRaul.
RAUL!
Were kickin’ ass! It feels good.
Jered Weaver, meet Regression To The Mean.
Tehehehe. Remember that thing that Dave kept saying about Weaver’s HR/F rate being unstainably low? I think that guy might know what he’s talking about.
It’s Raul’s misfortune they’re not making many western movies these days. He could do the Yul Brynner role in a re-make of ‘The Magnificent Seven’ in his sleep.
Cinematic sacrilege that such a remake would be, notwithstanding.
Clearly, Jered Weaver is the next great ace, because, you know, great aces leave their pitches hanging like it’s batting practice.
I had flashbacks of Doyle’s Mr. Bill impression (as it was dubbed) from Oakland right when Big Ben put on the breaks. That is some scary-ass sh*t, it’s what my nightmares are made of.
116, I read that survey piece. I like haring what the player’s think, but I also realize that there may be a bias. Some players just want the skip to be soft on them, and there’s the occasional personality conflist. Due to the latter, I wouldn’t worry about the don’t-likes who got 2%-4% of the vote, like Scoscia. The footnote says that Sweet Lou was voted 5th-worst last year.
I knew Showalter wasn’t beloved, but I didn’t realize Frank Robinson was so hated.
Doyle’s brief cup of coffee has now produced as many doubles and HRs as Bloomquist hit all year.*
*I know Willie is officially credited with 5 doubles to Doyle’s 4, but I don’t rate that last one he got due to outfielder pratfall. My gut tells me Willie has just 4 doubles…..
They are holding the umpiring camps in Compton?
I hope they replace the protective vests with ones made of Kevlar.
Every trip I ever took to Compton consisted of driving straight through at 85mph on the 91 freeway headed to Manhattan Beach. Safest way to visit Compton
Straight outta Compton/Crazy MFer named Laz Diaz….
Dave,
I couldn’t parse your last sentence. Are grammar rules still in force? Actually your grammar is much better than mine.
David
While I was typing, Dave revised/edited his comment. Moderators have all the luck. The rest of us have our mistakes enshrined forever.
David
Odd Dave and Dave bring up managers being fired just after 116’s post. Are they reading us?
Nice grab, Yu-Bet. Keeping the 3 hitter intact.
Sweet play by Betancourt there. Good thing he’s playing today for the flyballing Washburn.
Yeah, I’m sure Dave and Val are frantically hitting reload on their laptops between pitches.
Maybe Hargrove should go to that umpiring camp. Hey Mike, I’ll buy you a plane ticket and cover your rental car!
DOYLE!!!!!!!!!
Doyle!!
DOYLE!
TWO TWO TWO
DOYLE! x2
D-D-D-Doyle!
Doyle!!
Straight outta Compton/Crazy MFer named Laz Diaz….
I hear this is the lead track on the commemorative soundtrack for the umpiring camp.
OMFG DOYLE!
doyle is the fucking man
Looks like I joined the prayer circle just in time.
143
“Well, we started Yuni out there tonight with Jarrod on the mound. Jarrod’s a gamer, he’s a savvy veteran that knows how to win, and he’s the one starting pitcher I feel confidence in to get us a gorund ball.”
Concerning the Yuni-playing-with-flyball-pitcher thing, it’s interesting to note that Washburn has 7 groundball outs compared to 2 flyball outs.
so is somebody taping this for Derek?
Doyle:
.387/.444/.774
Not quite Ted Williams’ best years, but I’ll take it.
I had to take a phone call and missed Doyle going yard again.
You know, I’ll put up with a lot of different scenarios this offseason, I just really want to start next year with the line-up starting:
Ichiro
Doyle
Beltre
Is that too much to ask?
So how much does it cost to buy a #32 jersey that says Doyle on the back?
Please be nice to the server.
Thank you. The Management.
I’ll bet Doyle can hit the snot out of a golf ball, too. Those slo-mo shots of his swing show just a wicked amount of power in his upper body. Guy’s like a flexible fire-plug.
I don’t know what’s funnier: How a Doyle HR can crash this site, or the guy last night (or was it the night before?) that said Doyle never would generate any power because he only uses his arm and has no leg drive.
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How much for a “Fire Hargrove” jersey with NOW on the back of it?
166. I wonder if we could wear that at the ballpark. heh
Weaver FIP today through 4 innings: 16.20. Good times.
This is sooo frustrating. If they had just gone 5-6 on that road trip they’d still have a chance to make a run. Why the fuck did it take us going 0-11 for Hargrove to pull his head out of his ass?!
[seriously, don't be a prick.]
170. I hope you’re talking about Hendu.
Doyle OwNz!
169: You assume somebody didn’t pull it out for him?
170: who?
173: I wonder if you’re right. If that’s the case, then Hargrove must already know his fate is sealed.
So how much does it cost to buy a #32 jersey that says Doyle on the back?
Jeresy? Upwards of $200
Cutson made t-shirt? $19.99, plus shipping.
165 – I wasnt the guy who said it, but the evidence is there. 41 career HR’s in the minors in over 1700 AB’s…there isnt much pop there at all.
2 Hr’s in a night doesnt erase that.
And while we’re chatting, Washburn is on the edge of a meltdown.
Washburn sucks.
Folks, don’t feed the trolls. Just ignore Pete.
174 – Snelling. Sorry, I got some $$ riding on it.
Washburn will get out of this shtuff
Whew.
177: comes down to how you define power. Is he a “home run hitter?” No, because I would define that as someone who consistently is in the 30+ range. But if he stays healthy, he’ll have seasons where he goes yard 25 times. His swing is so solid, and he makes such good contact, he will hit his share.
Apparently someone left their laptop under the Fremont bridge…
180 -Cmon dont be like that…if you are referring to the “hoping he gets injured” then thats fine, but I sent another post about his power.
184- Yea, maybe….his double #’s arent exactly off the charts though. Does anyone know where Safeco rates for HR for LHH? I know overall its not a good hitters park, but its pretty good for lefty power, correct?
Make Your Own Doyle Tee Only $24.99.
Or if you want one that says “Snelling”, that’s $24.99 too.
BTW, they;re still selling Buck T-Shirt jerseys, at full price too.
Forgive my ignorance of the internet, but what can we do to not abuse the server? Comment less often? Does refreshing less frequently make a big difference?
Dave, if you had to set the Vegas odds of Doyle starting for our team next year, what would they be?
My dad was quoted $192 when he checked a couple of days ago on the Doyle jersey. I’m not sure if shipping is part of that or not.
I think Hudler is why I moved back from Anaheim…
Somebody please shut Rex Hudler up.
The Angels need some Tom Emansky videos.
Who is that idiot, and why isn’t he sticking to infomercials?
Huh. Did the Angels acquire Kevin Youkilis and clone him?
What the hell is this strange fascination by Rex Hudler by our home town crew? How could any human being find his broadcasting style tolerable?
Okay, catching up:
*ahem*
ICHIRO!
DOYLE! SQUARED!
I spell RAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUL with 26 “U’s”!
I love Good Beltre.
Weaver owned by the law of averages.
Carry on.
195: They get a discount on the Hudler feeds. Funny thing.
Did we see that play before?
Does refreshing less frequently make a big difference?
I think refreshing less makes a big difference. As I recall from Derek’s technical description, WordPress has to basically reassemble the page every time someone requests it, so refreshes take a lot of CPU time. I’m no expert, though.
Why doesn’t Broussard just charge the catcher? I mean, honestly.
What is more dangerous, driving without a seatbelt or driving with a bunch of idiots preaching about seatbelts?
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
Romero, you are entering a world of pain…
Walking to get to Snelling… *chuckle*
Dave – I put Snellings odds of being healthy enough to break camp with the 07 team at 25 % thoughts?
Don’t PH for him!
Good. I saw him walking to the dugout, so I was concerened.
As I recall from Derek’s technical description, WordPress has to basically reassemble the page every time someone requests it, so refreshes take a lot of CPU time. I’m no expert, though.
Yep. That’s the problem. And it has to rebuild all 200 comments.
Usually, PHP is fast enough for a blog like this, but it can’t take 50 people whacking F5 at once.
Come on Doyle.
Oh, Doyle vs. Romero really favors Doyle. Romero has terrible control issues most of the time.
BWAHAHAHA DOYLE OWNZ U
Let’s go Mariners! Woooh!
OMFG!!!
HARGROVE ISN’T GOING TO PINCH HIT FOR SNELLING WITH A SHITTY RIGHT HANDED HITTER!!! GIVE HIM A GOLD STAR AND A COOKIE!!!!!!
Hargrove, feeling left out I guess, gives away an out in the 5th to remind us of his presence/ineptitude.
192. If he hits one here, I’ll order one tomorrow.
If Doyle hits a slam I’m positive you’ll need a new server in the morning.
I’m a liking this AB
Too bad, but nice hustle by Doyle.
Send Doyle back to Tacoma. He’s clearly over matched.
How to zone one up there….nice hustle though.
but it can’t take 50 people whacking F5 at once
F5 refreshes the screen?
If you live long enough you learn something new everyday.
*Oops, that’s it, Doyle will never be allowed to see a left handed pitcher again.
Too bad, walking anybody, even Ichiro, to get to a guy with 2 HRs already should be punished.
Oh well.
In other news, the draft pick change is freaky. I’m shocked it’s going through (if the story is accurate.)
I put Snellings odds of being healthy enough to break camp with the 07 team at 25 % thoughts?
Thoughts? I think if you’re just here to be a contrarian jerk, that you should go away. Bring something interesting to the table or go hang out on the PI blog.
I promise I will no longer feed the troll, just had to get that off my chest.
That’s why my F5 key is faded to the point that it appears to not have anything printed on it.
184: I love Doyle as much as the next guy, but 25? He hit 10 as a 17 year old, and that was his career high. I realize he hasn’t had a 500AB season since…well…since…never. But 25 sounds like pie in the sky thinking to me. Doyle looks like a 310/380/480 type guy in his prime, with great K:BB ratios and 15-18HR pop. Nothing to dislike about that line.
appleR > F5
huh? draft pick change?
Strikeouts being 25% more than league average is not “a little” better.
Well, if I remember correctly, Bagwell, Giambi, Edgar, and Jim Edmonds didn’t hit for much power in the minors either.
Someone from the Mariners’ team on FSN reads here, or is that just coincidental?
They just popped up a series of numbers regarding Felix’s BB%, K% and GB% – and league (or maybe MLB, was too giddy to notice) averages were shown too.
226, see this:
Ken Davidoff of Newsday reported just over a week ago that teams may no longer receive draft picks as compensation for free agents who leave as part of the upcoming CBA.
Now comes word through sources that all the clubs have been notified that this indeed will be the case as both the Players Association and MLB have come to terms on the matter.
This would explain, in part, why Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Lee have been on the trading block. Both the Nationals and Rangers have been hot to try and get something for these two players before free agency forces both clubs to possibly walk away without anything for these two top players that were not dealt at the trading deadline.
Stay tuned.
Rizzs is talking about Felix inducing lots of groundballs and how that’s a huge part of his value. Tomorrow, I’m putting all of my stock into livestock aviation technology, because I’m quite sure that pigs will soon fly.
222: No, no. Let’s spend oodles of time on psychic readings about future injuries for all manner of players in the game.
Or, we could just go to medical school and skip the Vegas aspect of it entirely.
228: Neither did Babe Ruth!
Nice, Adrian. How many times this year have I seen that same ball hit into a glove instead of off the webbing? About time…
222- I guess i should type “DOYLE” to fit in? Will I then be posting something “interesting”?
The guy gets injured…often. I guess that cant be discussed PDB?
Also, as soon as I figure out what the ” PI” sight is then I’ll be all over it…in fact it will be a Snelling love affair.
By the way, what I meant was “reads here, and at least ostensibly listens.”
A very special friend…
appleR > F5
Seriously? You’d rather press two keys simultaneously than one? ctrl-R is always there if you insist on working harder than necessary, I guess.
228 – Hey, you got any other HOF’ers you want to compare him with? unreal…
231
Wow, that made me laugh quite loudly…
Holy Jebus, the Angels are bad at defense.
I love you Johjima.
Johjima’s an error-hitting-into machine.
Well Giambi and Edgar ain’t going’ to the Hall. Edmonds and Bags should be locks EASILY, but they are quite underrated, so you never know.
All I’m saying is that good hitters develop power, power hitters don’t develop into good hitters easily. It took Jim Thome over 1400 minor league at bats to hit 50 Hrs.
Hell, it took Beltran 4 minor league season to hit 42 homeruns, and he’s gonna slug .600 this year.
You think Edmonds is more likely to go to HOF than Edgar? I guess when you put defense into the equation, you’re right. But I don’t see Edmonds ans HOF Lock material.
and speaking of Edmonds…how about the Cards defensive alignment in the OF today…
LF Spiezio
CF Encarnacion
RF Wilson
That’s pretty ugly.
fuck you washburn.
Get that 38 million dollar asshole off the mound.
He’s not ruining a Double Dinger Doyle night.
Edmonds’ peak was as good as Ken Griffey Jr.’s. His non-peak seasons are nothing to scoff at either. Did anyone notice that last season was the FIRST season that Albert Pujols was the best player on his own team? Edmonds is one of the best 20 or so centerfielders ever.
Oh man. This is where Mateo’s injury yesterday really becomes clutch. This is typically where he gets brought in to induce ground balls and perhaps scavenge a lead.
I mean scavenge a win. its late here in NYC.
Hey, the game is still on at 9. Unlike yesterday.
Somebody please shoot Little Richard.
I was the guy that said Doyle generates all his bat speed with his upper body and I don’t see him having gap power in the big leagues. As mentioned by someone else a single 2 HR night doesn’t change that. I also mentioned that he’ll be a valuable player due to his good eye and ability to lash balls down the lines. I just don’t see his swing generating consistent gap power and I don’t see his leg holding up unless he gets 50% of his time at DH.
I’d love to see him hitting 2nd in the lineup. He’s a much better fit there than Lopez and Lopez career .325 OBP and I’d love to see the M’s continue giving him a chance. I just don’t see him as the 2nd coming of Edgar or the franchise savior.
248-
Sheesh, what would you be calling him if we were losing 6-3 in the 6th?
As for the troll:
Player A’s minor league statistics: .327/.398/.496
Player B’s minor league statistics: .300/.416/.439
Player A is known around these parts as Doyle. Player B is known as Edgar.
Oh yeah, Doyle didn’t play in Foothills Stadium in Calgary (a notorious AAA hitter’s park), either.
Actually re: 249
In 2003 Pujols has an edge.
Oh, and to be clear, I don’t see Doyle as Edgar, either (Edgar is what I’d call an outlier in a number of respects). But the kid can hit, and if he stays healthy, he’ll post some nice years.
Lockhaven.
I’m on vacation, by the way (in SF, and apparently, my vacations correlate with Mariner winning streaks). Please tell me Hargrove has someone up and throwing in the pen, since it looks lik eWashburn’s getting gassed, or I may be throwing up here…
255-
Bucky Jacobson 900 career minor league OPS…sometimes it works in the other direction
gamecast shows soriano pitching now.
Yikes!
Oh no!
Oh fucking god.
Ohhasldfjalsdfjasdf asd fuck
Whuh-oh!
Oh shit!
fawk!
255: Don’t forget about the 240 AB’s and .657 OPS from this season. It’s okay to be objective sometimes, I swear.
No one here is calling Doyle a stiff, we’re just suggesting that he’s going to be a very good hitter, but not necessarily HOF material. Based on minor league statistics, which is all we have to go on here (unless you’re a scout?), he still lacks power, which may prevent him from being an All-Star caliber player.
Back, and to the left.
Shit.
That’s terrible. That’s the type of thing, even if Soriano is OK (and I hope he is), he might never be the same pitcher.
I was going to ask Dave about Soriano’s velocity being at 95 MPH last time out, and it being 91 MPH now, but he has much bigger problems. He’s a big part of the team, I hope he’s going to be okay.
my day is bad.
It’s sad how many people are willing to give up on Doyle as ever being able to stay healthy. Did you see Willis McGahee’s injury? It was gruesome, some “experts” thought he’d never come back… look how fast Culpepper and Palmer have come back and how good they look. It CAN happen. If he stays injury-free in the offseason there’s no reason the leg can’t be 100% by spring.
Gotta get him to the hospital…look out for cranial bleeding. And look how distraught Vlad looks…
Gotta get him to the hospital…look out for cranial bleeding. And look how distraught Vlad looks…
Praying for the best, Raf.
This is kind of like watching Joe Theismann’s broken leg over and over. I hate this shit.
Holy Shit.
Jeez, he isn’t even moving.
do you know what’s wrong with Soriano? Gameday isn’t helping me.
Sad? I’m just going by the facts…you should try it sometime.
That’s one of the scariest things I’ve seen since Theisman.
I hope he will be OK.
God Bless You Soriano.
I wish they’d stop showing it over and over again.
well, damn, that wasn’t anything I expected when I turned back to FSN.
Scariest thing I’ve seen since when Paul Abbott got nailed by the bat
282: He was hit in the right side of his head by a screaming line drive off Vald Guererro. He went down but folded up, didn’t just drop like he’d been shot. They gathered around him, and eventually put him on a stretcher and evacuated to a hospital. He was moving his legs in what appeared to be purposeful motion. They’re pinch-running for Vlad and the crowd been deathly silent. Sean Green’s pitching now.
Oh man, this is terrible, but Bobby made me laugh.
At least he’s moving, that’s the kind of thing that can kill a man.
ooops, we nearly lost USSM there.
Corco, are you up to speed? In case you’re not, Soriano took a vicious Guerrero line drive to the side of the head. They strapped him into a stretcher and took him to the hospital, and that’s about all we know.
They’re reporting now that he got hit on the ear, and never lost consciousness.
Not losing consciousness is a big deal. That’s a very good sign.
I think I’m wrong about a pinch runner for Vlad. Whoever it is just scored, though.
The early word is that he was hit behind the right ear, never lost consciousness, and is being taken to Harborview for further examination.
Oh boy, we better not let Weaver get off the hook here.
On the radio they just relayed from the team doc “Soriano was hit behind the ear and he never lost conciousness.” There’s no good place to get hit in the head, but behind the ear is better than ahead of it (and much better than getting hit in the eye socket, which could pretty much be an automatic career-ender).
Well, we were talking about shutting Soriano down for the rest of the year; his arm should get some rest now.
yeah, I found a radio and turned it on and got the update, but thanks.
I was in the garage and missed the whole thing, but my wife filled me in. I was most distressed to hear that the ball wnet into the 3B dugout rather than staying in fai rterritory, as I figured a fair ball would have meant a more glancing blow.
She said they showed it several times, but maybe they thought they’d gone too far, because I walked in when he was just getting driven off the field, and they haven’t shown it again.
I wonder if their heads are in the game, especially JJ’s.
293: I’m pretty sure they kept Vlad in. Both the announcers and Gameday kept referring to the player in question as Vlad.
JJ’s head’s okay…oh, yeah. Very okay.
There was no pinch runner for Guerrero — fyi…he’s back in the field.
It’s Raul’s misfortune they’re not making many western movies these days. He could do the Yul Brynner role in a re-make of ‘The Magnificent Seven’ in his sleep.
Or how about “The King and I” — starring Raul and Felix. “Shall we dance, shall we dance, shall we dance?”
I know I’ve previously revealed myself as possessed of an Angie Mentink fetish, but dang, tonight’s cleavage on FSN is just *ridiculous*. It must be her husband’s birthday or something.
It seems to me that Putz is throwing less splitters. Anybody know anything about this?
303 – Good to see I’m not the only one.
I love JJ.
Just to give my $.02. I saw both of Doyle’s HRs on ESPN highlights, and man do they look sweet. First time I’ve been able to catch any Ms highlights in a long time. I hope Raf is doing okay, etc, JJ rocks!
As announced on KONG TV: Soriano has a depressed skull fracture.
303
She looks much older in person, still a fan though.
As announced on KONG TV: Soriano has a depressed skull fracture.
Good grief, Soriano’s been though enough tonight already, he doesn’t need *Matt Morrison* following him to the hospital. Show the man some respect.
Oh, that’s bad. Will he ever pitch again? I just hope he recovers full functionality.
PP- That doesn’t sound good at all..
#303– hey, you spend that much time in the outfield, it shows in your skin…
Depressed skull fracture means surgery. So, he’s done for 2006. Hopefully not forever.
Pray there’s no hematoma.
From Medline:
“A depressed skull fracture is a break in a cranial bone (or “crushed” portion of skull) with depression of the bone in toward the brain.”
That sounds pretty damn bad. He could have brain swelling from this.
Then this doc thier interviewing, must be on tape delay of some sort. Because he’s candy coating it that’s for sure.
And he just said no fracture….
Dr Khalafian just said no indication of a fracture; ‘closed head injury’, concussion, observation overnight, more tests to be run bu the neurosurgeons. “Initial information is reassuring”
OK, probably everyone heard this, but no skull fracture. Swelling, yes; concussion, yes; headache, um, yes; but they say no fracture.
FSN Live — M’s doctor is on. Doesn’t appear to be a fracture, according to him. Not sure where KONG got their info…
Let’s just hope he’ll okay, and that he is able to pitch again.
And let’s just appreciate the fragility that is life –
Good… glad to hear no fracture.
Dear Lord Almighty, what a rack.
hmm. can’t say I spend a lot of time monitoring Angie’s frontage … maybe she’s pregnant again?
watching that line drive was very disturbing
Silvi keeps giving the ‘depressed skull fracture’ line, and FSN has the concussion no fracture story.
325 – I like how there’s no communication, in the communication biz. I witness that stuff way to much.
When was the last time this happened to an M’s pitcher… Brad Holman?
Billy Swift I think..or maybe it was Brad. I know they mentioned Billy on the Post Game.
From Halos Heaven:
“Seattle’s Safeco Field is a great place to see a game and has better food than Angel Stadium. The fans are equally uninformed/distracted about true baseball. Other than Red and Blue the only distinct difference is 7 flags flying in the Anaheim outfield (five division titles, 1 A.L. pennant, 1 World Championship flag).”
Take that as an affront.
On a different note, I was sitting in the game, talking to the person next to me and in the middle of the sentence, ‘I wish they’d take Soriano out for the rest of the season’… damn. I didn’t mean it like that
Manzanillo-In the sack, no cup, 1997ish?
Another M’s hurler who got nailed was Steve Shields in 1987. I reemeber seeing that one. I believe he had frctured facial bones. I had to look him up to find out that he did return to MLB the next year with the Yankees.
Bill Swift was hit in the head? I don’t remember that. I do remember Brad getting hit in the face… he had sinus complications. Brad was only with the M’s for one year, 1993, and Swift was traded after the 1991 season (though he was back for one last go-round in 1998). I dunno.
Manzanillo, sure, but I was talking about getting hit in the head with a batted ball.
ESPN now says no fracture, FWIW.
So I see the first inning heroics, plus two Doyle ABs, take a peek at another TV lat with the Ms eroding Weaver the Lesser’s ass, then tune in the radio later still and find out Rafey Soriano’s been half killed in the service of another Mariners win. Sheesh, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
If Soriano had a skull fracture, that’s bad, bad, bad. Even if he had a hematoma, though, he’s five minutes away from a hospital, and fifteen minutes away from a surgical theater. Still, the word that: a) there’s no fracture, thank God, and b) he didn’t black out, amounts to the best one could possibly hope for. Sounds like a glancing blow, to a degree, on the back of the skull, which is the best one could pray for in the circumstances. I hope he’s done for the year, though, unless he gets a few inning in late September just to ‘get back on the horse.’
It can get much worse than this, but there is life and game after many times, so bear that in mind, folks. The worst hit-by-batted-ball I’ve ever seen I saw in person. I was at the park in Oakland with my Dad, who’s a doctor BTW, with Dave Heaverlo pitching, the father of the Ms former minor leaguer. Hal Baines got a hanging breaking pitch up and hit a screaming liner that flush nailed Heaverlo in the left cheek bone just under the eye at aobut 115 mph I would guess. Heaverlo dropped like he’d been shot through the heart, both trainers sprinted to the mound, and much later the hauled him away bleeding in a gurney, still unconscious. Baines was totally disraught and almost ran to the mound himself rather than to first: it was a carom hit like this one, in fact and so to speak. It shattered Heaverlo’s left orbital socket, and ended his year. He recovered, though; his vision was good enough to pitch, and he had several more years in the Big Leagues with other teams, with results about as good as before. So while you sure don’t want it to happen, it doesn’t mean that your career is over. I’m hoping for the best for Soriano.
IIRC Joel Pineiro was hit in the head a few years ago, glancing blow, with no blackout. I haven’t looked it up, but it sticks in my mind.
from the SI updated story:
Soriano was struck behind his right ear, team physician Dr. Edward Khalfayan said. Soriano was carted off the field and taken to Harborview Medical Center. Khalfayan said initial reports were reassuring that the injury was not serious and Soriano would be held overnight for additional tests and observation. Soriano underwent an X-ray and CAT scan when he arrived at the hospital. “He did not have anything that indicated he had a fracture,” Khalfayan said. Neurosurgeons were monitoring Soriano at the hospital.
Dr. Khalfayan said Soriano never lost consciousness, and had full sensation in all of his extremities. Soriano had swelling at the back of his head and complained of a severe headache but knew where he was and what had happened.
So, after the earlier comments concerning big D’s power potential not being so great because he does not use his legs enough, I went and looked at the highlights on MLB.com of his and Ibanez’ homers, which include the behind-the-batter-slomo-thing at the end. Their swings look pretty much identical to my eye, ignorant as it is. At least, they look identical in terms of what the two of them do with their legs and at which point in the swing they do it. Is Ibanez also guilty of not using his legs in his drive (in which case, it does not seem to be that much of a problem)? Am I missing something crucial?
And Metz123 re: Doyle’s batting mechanics, I have to agree with most of what you say, actually, if I’m not necessarily sold on the prognosis. I got to see his first two ABs on TV today, the first time I’ve ’seen’ him hit all year. His hand speed and swing plane are all one could ask for, and we know his strikezone judgment is good (even though he had to reach for a 3-2 pitch up and away and Ked the second time). However, his lower body really isn’t involved much in his swing at the moment; there’s very little weight shift, as you say. He can brutalize mistake pitches with that approach like he did in the 1st inning HR, but it’s hard to see him hitting the 40 2B a year he looked set to generate before. He was and is a line drive hitter, who figured to top out at maybe 20 HR in a good year max, but now who knows.
However. Remember that a year ago at this time, Doyle didn’t have an ACL in his left knee. He’s still functionally rehabbing, has doubtless been told (and for the first time maybe believes) that he’s not to do ANYTHING to torque his knees PERIOD, and may not have 100% confidence in his leg understandably. 95% confidence isn’t 100%, and certainly we see a bit of difference in his stance. By next Spring, however, his ligament is going to be as firmly attached as it is ever going to be, he’ll have as much or as little stability in his knee as he ever will, and he may try returning to a little more movement in his swing mechanics at the plate. I say may; I have no way to know. But I wouldn’t care to predict where Doyle will be one year from now, or two years from now based on what we see _right now_, ’cause he’s still, really, rehabilitating his knee. 90% back isn’t 100% back, and I don’t think he’s 100% recovered at eleven months out from major ligament replacement surgery. His leg muscles alone may not be fully conditioned to the new and slightly different stress and tension patterns in his knee; remember he wasn’t allowed to go full speed even as recently as last March.
If, late next year, Our Man Doyle has exactly the same swing we see now, then he remains a quick, smart LF bat who projects to get on base at a .380+ clip, and that’s damn valuable. His slugging won’t be the same, but he’ll be a good player even so. Doyle may be thinking this way and heading this way because he sure seems more focused on avoiding borderline pitches and taking the walk than I’ve seen in the past. Yet again, though, it may be that he explicitly doesn’t want to _lunge_ at the ball at this time, doesn’t want to bet over-extended awkwardly in any way at the plate, which makes absolutely perfect sense. But he sure seems to be avoiding any leg drive or extended postures in his ABs, yeah, with results that perhaps follow. I’ve never seen Doyle as ‘the savior of the franchise’ simply because he was so very young when he came up, and has been so battered by physical misfortune that it’s almost irrational to try to project him. Give us a full, healthy season to work with, then we can say, but now we just look for tea leaves, bat speed, and line drives headed for the seats off the bat.
. . . I still totally love the guy as a player, though, no matter what. He’s an easy one to root for every single plate appearance and chance in the field. Stud dude has already dived twice for batted balls. Who could speak against him?
Drayer said that when the press got into the clubhouse Hargrove had already left for the hospital, Chaves was in street clothes and on the way, and unofficial word was Vlad (a friend from the Dominican) planned to go up as well. Washburn & Putz took it on themselves to be the pointmen for the press, which was appreciated by the press corps.
wonder if Silvi will check the wire & update his sports report any time soon…
Sad news. Hope Raffy is ok both short and long term.
#338, Ibanez doesn’t have a big stride, But you’ll see him shift his hips forward, and really bear down in the back let to push off from beneath the ball. Despite my interest in this, I’m no expert, but the HR by Doyle in the 1st inning he explicitly did _not_ use any significant drive off his back (rehabilitating left) leg. If he’s not pushing off with it, he can’t shift his weight forward or else he’ll simply flop forward over the pitch and end up hitting GBs. I think. So I see Doyle as having adapted to the fact that, at present anyways, he won’t push off his left leg so he’s just staying centered and using his quick hands, pretty much like metz123 said. His 1st inning HR was all hand speed off a mistake pitch fat over the plate. It’s hard to see Doyle turning on the pitch down and in with the same mechanics though, except to make contact for singles, but not to drive the ball. If somebody else got a better view of this, I’m interested to hear it.
# 335 — Bela — I was actually at that 1981 game in Oakland too, but it wasn’t Dave Heaverlo on the mound. It was Bo McLaughlin. Baines’ drive hit him flush in the face, fracturing his cheekbone, and still landed well past first base. I was sitting right behind first base. I’ll never forget it.
They drove an ambulance right up to the mound. News reports said that McLaughlin was mumbling a request to stay in the game.
wonder if Silvi will check the wire & update his sports report any time soon…
FWIW — on the 11:00 news, he did echo the statement from the M’s doctor, that it did not appear to be a fracture. He didn’t say anything about the “depressed fracture” that he reported at the top of the 10:00 news.
About Doyle, the one thing that really impresses me (aside from his quick hands, and has anybody noticed how big is forearms are?) is how good his eye is, particularly on inside pitches. A lot of batters will dance out of the way if a pitch comes inside, even though it’s obvious (at least in retrospect) it wasn’t going to hit them. I’ve never seen Doyle do that. A couple of times he’s almost casually lifted his arms to let the ball go underneath, sometimes closer than his elbows. But he knows those balls aren’t going to hit him. He either has incredible faith in his eyeballs, or the biggest balls on the field during his at bats aren’t the ones getting tossed at the catcher. You would kind of expect a guy with his injury history to be at least a little gunshy, but he’s absolutely unfazed by those close pitches (and he’s never tempted to swing at them either). Of course we have yet to see someone throw him a pitch that would actually HBP him, so maybe he’s just a tough aussie mofo who is willing to get on base by any means necessary, but to me it really looks like he knows exactly where those pitches are going and is completely unintimidatable.
Oh, and get well soon Raffie (but not soon enough for Hargrove to further abuse you).
BTW for all you Doylephiles out there, his Yahoo Gallery is growing (pretty soon all the pictures will actually be of him). So yeah, he doesn’t use his back leg — at least not yet — but that’s not always necessary to defeat an opposing pitcher.
Weight shift in hitting is done only at the beginning of the swing, and only by some players. Weight shift has no bearing on bat speed other than initial acceleration of the hands. Weight shift, as universally used in MLB, is strictly a timing mechanism.
What Bela thinks Raul is doing is actually defined as “sitting” on the back leg. The axis of rotation goes straight down from the head through the back upper leg which is pointed straight at the ground. The Ted Williams school of hitting says that the axis should actually lean back a little bit for more power, but biomechanical experiments have demonstrated this to be misleading. Leaning back does not generate more power, but may help some players “clear the hips” so that rotational forces can apply torque to the bat.
Doyle is a rotational hitter; he just stays more balanced during the swing. NO hitter uses legs to generate bat speed. Bat speed is SOLELY a function of torso rotation accelerating the bat simultaneously with the arms and hands.
If you really watch Doyle swing – he slots his back elbow and keeps his hands “inside” the ball. At the point of impact, you would be amazed at how similar most good hitters are.
Some camps, notably Peavy’s, teach top hand release. Others, such as Mankin and Epstein, teach the “sit on back leg” and swing “up”. They ALL teach rotational mechanics. Doyle is a rotational hitter. His uppercut is actually a good thing, allowing the bat to stay in the plane of the pitch longer than those with a level swing.
I know Bagwell, at least, would even step backwards during his swing, again as a timing thing. If most of a pitcher’s velocity and a boxer’s force comes from hip rotation, it makes sense a hitter’s power would stem from the same source.
ok, someone needs to send Hickey the catcher ERA discussion, as today he brings the subject up again…
Kirby Arnold mentions Swift:
“The scene reminded longtime Mariners fans of a similar scare 16 seasons ago when pitcher Bill Swift was struck on the forehead by a line drive by the Minnesota Twins’ Gary Gaetti in the Kingdome. Swift spent a night in the hospital for tests and was released, then pitched six days later.”
Thanks for the clarifications fellas. I never played ball in any formal capacity and am completely mystified by most of the commentary on players’ techniques, mostly because every ‘event’ (ie swing) is so fast that unless one knows exactly what to look at, they look more or less the same. So yeah, thanks again.
At the point of impact, you would be amazed at how similar most good hitters are.
In that respect, compare the picture of Doyle’s swing (linked above) with this one of Ibanez hitting his grand slam The Ibanez one is obviously taken slightly earlier in the swing (can’t see the ball) but in terms of stance they look pretty darn similar to me. Hip rotation makes sense; and if Doyle’s leg can take running in the outfield I would think it’s up to whatever’s necessary to swing the bat with power. Edgar could barely walk when he tore that ACL or whatever it was and he was still hitting with authority (I remember thinking he was clearly planing to hit HRs so that he didn’t have to worry about running on the basepaths).
Dave in Stanford-ville, if you say so. I’m pretty sure it was Heaverlo, but if we both saw a young Hal Baines for the White Sox hit it we must be talking about the same game. The ball did go down the first base line. I was on that side for once because my Dad likes to sit there. Ugly incident, though.
JAS, I’m not implying that Doyle’s batspeed is or will suffer from what he’s doing if he’s not putting weight down into the back leg. I think that if he is keeping the weight off the back, left leg, it will be hard for him to _fully torque_ his hips, although I didn’t say it that way in the earlier post. Doyle does have good rotation, but he’s generating a lot of that with his arms, rather like metz123 said. Yes, Doyle’s stance is very centered and focused on rotation. Watch some of those other hitters when they really torque down and under that ball to pull it; see how much stress they put on the back leg, and how they have to rotate the knee on the back leg to do it: this is what Doyle _isn’t_ doing, as I see it, and probably a good thing that he’s not. But it’s also why I wonder if he’s going to be able to get under low pitches, especially inside, and drive them with authority. Pitches up, yes; pitches down or away, I’m not so sure.
All that said though, it’s clear that Doyle is a very advanced hitter, with highly consistent mechanics at the plate, who know exactly what he wants to do, and how. He exudes confidence, and whether it’s an Oz attitude or more him he clearly thinks it’s the pitcher who’s in trouble when Doyle has a bat in his hands—and he’s right.
Your description of Raul seem dead on. He definitely ’sits on the back leg and swings up,’ really a very different approach than Doyle, or more accurately a more extreme version of hip rotation. The interesting thing about Ibanez with that swing is how much contact he makes with that swing. He seldom swings through a pitch, especially on the inside of the plate; he’s very disciplined with it. Doyle making good contact doesn’t surprise me, but Raul making such good contact with a more extreme rotation is just hard work and talent coming together.