Guardado to have TJ surgery
JMB · September 7, 2006 at 9:52 am · Filed Under Mariners
You’re shocked, I know. Says the Cincinnati Post…
Eddie Guardado is as dogged in his optimism as they come, but he knew something was wrong as soon as he saw Dr. Tim Kremchek’s face Wednesday morning.
About an hour earlier, Guardado had undergone an arthrogram on his sore left elbow. In an effort to flesh out any problems an earlier MRI didn’t detect, dye was injected into Guardado’s elbow and another picture taken.
This one revealed something the previous exam missed: Guardado had torn the ulnar collateral ligament in his elbow, ending his season.
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“Someday” Eddie
I’m just glad he threw some saves before this exam. He was probably injured then too (as he probably was during his time here) but at least that makes it harder for the Reds to claim Seattle sold them a broken toy. I wonder if his shoulder problems made him throw differently, putting stress on the elbow?
Also from that story
Hey, look: a manager with a bigger bullpen than Hargrove!
And yet, the Reds are surprised about this — even though any more than casual M’s fan could have told you that Eddie has had shoulder/elbow trouble the last couple of years and was pitching through it.
And this after the Reds made another trade where a player turned out to be injured.
WTF happened to due diligence, Cincy?
Medical Question: If you have this kind of injury and decide to call it a career, do you still need TJ surgery? Or is it only necessary if you plan to put your arm through rehab and more major league level stress? I take it since he’s having the surgery he thinks he can come back, but was wondering if he wanted to retire, could he just skip the surgery and live with the injury?
WTF happened to due diligence, Cincy?
I doubt they are that surprised by Guardado getting injured. Everyone knew he was damaged goods when he was dealt. While I wouldn’t make a habit of dishing out guys like Travis Chick for a struggling relief pitcher with shoulder problems, I think this particular deal could be somewhat justified from Cincy’s perspective just because they had so many troubles in the ‘pen. Not a great deal for the Reds, but I think you could reasonably justify it as trading the risk that Chick doesn’t make it for the risk that Guardado becomes injured or continues to be ineffective.
The Bray/Majewski deal is a whole different can of worms, since that deal didn’t make sense even if Majewski was healthy.
You still need the surgery, at least as much as anyone ever needs surgery; I suppose you could live with an arm that doesn’t work, but if you don’t want to be crippled for the rest of your life, you need the surgery. It might be that Eddie really thinks he can come back, but it might just as much be that he wants to get the surgery done now when it’s on someone else’s nickel.
They forgot a detail in the story:
There, fixed it.
#6: While I wouldn’t make a habit of dishing out guys like Travis Chick for a struggling relief pitcher with shoulder problems, I think this particular deal could be somewhat justified from Cincy’s perspective just because they had so many troubles in the ‘pen. Not a great deal for the Reds, but I think you could reasonably justify it as trading the risk that Chick doesn’t make it for the risk that Guardado becomes injured or continues to be ineffective.
I think the deal works well for the Reds, even with Eddie’s injury. They were desperate for bullpen help, and they got enough production out of Guardado to justify swapping a “probably never will be” prospect such as Chick for whatever help they did get from Guardado.
Of course he tore his UCL. He’s been pitching with a torn rotator cuff for 3 years; this is a classic cascade injury.
To elaborate, the way Eddie twisted around and fell off the mound with every pitch made me think he was transferring stress from his injured shoulder to his back. Maybe he hurt his back, which then transferred the stresses to his elbow.
It is, quite frankly, amazing he was able to pitch for this long with that shoulder.
We all knew it would happen at some point before the end of the season. At least they were lucky enough to have him last this long. I’m now curious to see if he even tries a comeback for 2008.
If he was smart he’d get his shoulder and elbow both fixed and see if he can make a comeback fully healthy. If he can’t come back then at least he’ll be repaired by the best surgeons and with the best possible rehab a la Dan Wilson.
my favorite line was in the Cincy Enquirer:
That Guardado had a torn ulnar collateral ligament, was done for the season and needed Tommy John surgery threw the pitcher for a loop. But he gathered his wits by the time he got home.
“I went home and called my wife and my agent,” he said. “They were shocked. I told them, ‘Everyday Eddie, my ass!’ “
I’m sure he’ll try a comeback in 2008. That seems to be the kind of guy he is. Whether his body will respond is an open question. Are medical procedures like this a pay-as-you-go thing for teams, or do they actually get insurance (for the medical side of it, not the player risk side).
Meanwhile… is this the deadest non-AllStar-break day of the MLB schedule? Seven games, and all of (count’em) two in the AL — both in the Central. What the… oh, right, there’s another sport starting its season tonight. And so we begin the plunge into the long dull winter darkness that will only lighten with “pitchers and catchers report” next spring. sigh.
Bender (#13): my understanding is that shoulder surgeries are far more risky than TJ, with a consequent wider range of outcomes. The shoulder is more complicated than the elbow and repairing it is less understood. This is one of the reasons he didn’t get surgery on it before. While it’s probably true his shoulder problems contributed to his elbow injury, and he is going to be on the shelf anyway so “concurrent sentences” of rehab might make a kind of sense, I can understand why he and his doctors might be unwilling to attempt a two-fer.
According to BP’s Will Carroll, Guardado probably would not need TJ surgery if he retires because the UCL is not critical to daily life.
Well, he has a torn rotator cuff, not a labrum or something like that. I was under the impression that the rotator cuff was difficult to rehab, but not like the labrum in that you turn into Gil Meche (as a best case scenario) after the surgery.
As a practical matter, I’d have to disagree with Will Carroll. Could Eddie function without it? Sure. Would any doctor recommend that? None that I know. The UCL might not be “critical to daily life,” but leaving it unrepaired would have a negative effect on the stability, strength, and operation of the joint, which would ultimately cause other problems. This is not an irrelevant injury.
And re: Guardado as pitcher, I could wish we’d gotten more than Chick for him (though from the stories on Putz, if keeping Guardado around really had that great an effect on J. J., I’m more than reconciled to the fact that we didn’t deal Eddie in ’05), but at least he was wearing someone else’s uniform when his arm finally gave way.
in other health news, [deleted, off-topic]
There is no need for TJ surgery unless a person needs to earn a living throwing sliders for a living. Based on the fact that the first MRI didn’t show anything i assume the tear isn’t 100%.
Honestly, does anyone know anyone out there who has had TJ that isn’t a pitcher? People live happy lives with tears in their UCL (and ACL for that matter), its just they aren’t professional athletes.
With that being said, i’m sure Eddie will get the surgery. He’s not getting any younger and he can retire at any point during rehab, but until he gets the surgery he will always be damaged goods.
Many people live without the surgeries that a baseball player must get to perform. My dad lived with a bum shoulder for nearly 15 years, only recently having surgery. I guess he never had to throw a 90 mph fastball or a slider so he never needed the surgery haha. I’ve also thought about the question: are these surgeries designed for someone to go back to playing professional baseball, in the sense that they strictly benefit you for that reason, or would an average person need them to achieve a normal life?
oh, and The Onion also has a medical update today….
A shoulder injury like that can make “normal” life hell. I had some simple tearing as a result of an old shoulder separation and, without treatment, I had limited use of my left arm. If I forgot, and reached out too quickly, it delivered a swift reminder of shooting pain. You would be amazed how often you need full rotation of that shoulder, and most of us take it for granted. Putting up with a “bum shoulder” may be a choice that resulted from a reluctance to have surgery or an unwillingness to pay for it, not because life is just fine without the full use of an arm. Torn tissue in a joint is no fun, whether you’re playing baseball or just doing a day’s work.
Have I known people who’ve had elbow ligaments repaired? Yes, though I know more folks who’ve had torn rotator cuffs fixed. It’s easy for folks like Safeco Hobo to talk about need or lack thereof — tear something in one of your joints, you’ll have an entirely new perspective on the subject. What’s more, delay surgery and end up with some degree of permanent loss of function in your joint (like our church organist, who can’t raise her right arm above her head), and you’ll really have a new perspective.
A few position players have had TJ surgery. I can’t think of a name at the moment, but perhaps someone else can.
Rocco Baldelli and Luis Gonzalez come to mind.
Jose Guillen is out for the season right now with TJ surgery.
I think Roberto Alomar did too. So did Xavier Nady, if I’m not mistaken.
Aside from Baldelli, Gonzalez & Guillen, here are some more: Roberto Alomar, Rusty Greer, Cesar Izturis, Xavier Nady & Tony Womack. Jose Canseco also had TJ – but it was caused when the bonehead was trying to pitch. Haha!
Normal, everyday life… no need for TJ surgery. You don’t stress the UCL that much that it’s a problem. Throwing 95 mph fastballs (curve balls worse) or sidearm across the diamond, yah you need it. If you’d like to get into the specifics of the surgery, I’d be more than happy to expound upon it…
This probably marks the end of Eddie’s career and quite honestly it is quite sad that a guy like him won’t really get much of a chance to walk off a Major League Baseball diamond into retirement on his own terms.
Because I doubt any team will sign a 36 or 37 year old pitcher coming off Tommy John and even before the surgery was a very inconsistent pitcher (at least for this year, anyway).
I just wish him all the best because I have to admit, even though it was necessary to trade him to Cincinatti this year because of his inconsistent pitching, I wouldn’t trade his personality one bit.
He’s honest, funny, and just a overall good guy to be around and when he struggles, or feels at least that he didn’t do all that he could on the mound to help his team win a game, then he will actually suck in his pride, be a man and basically admit that “yeah, I didn’t do well today. I could’ve done better.” Oh sure, other players may admit to that, but then they almost immediately try to change the topic of the question/conversation. Eddie just absorbs the criticism and frustrations that sometimes go along with being a Major Leaguer like a sponge, and yet, then proceed to smile it off later and then say to himself that “tomorrow is another day.”
Baseball definitely needs more people like Eddie Guardado, the kind of guys who you couldn’t tell whether or not were earning 20 million or 20 thousand dollars, but instead put in an honest days work every day while opening themselves up to almost everybody they come in contact with.
In other words, the kind of guy who’d you want to sit down and have a cold drink with and not feel imtidated.
And Eddie defenitely is one of those guys from what I can tell.
#32-*they are earning 20 million or 20 thousand
#32: Because I doubt any team will sign a 36 or 37 year old pitcher coming off Tommy John and even before the surgery was a very inconsistent pitcher (at least for this year, anyway).
After rehab, he’ll likely get quite a few offers to attend ST as a non-roster invitee, with an incentive loaded contract if he’s added to the 25-man roster. If he shows anything left in the tank, he’ll get picked up.
He would be a good fit for a cellar-dwelling team. He’d help with the players in the pen, and if he performed, he could be flipped before the trade deadline.
After rehab he’s a zero-risk, high upside option.
Don’t some guys gain a MPH or two after TJ surgery?
Speaking of the fate of ex-Mariner pitchers, [deleted, off-topic]
#35: Yes, but it’s because they spend a long time without pitching during rehab.
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Oh good lord. I’m losing it.
#35: Don’t some guys gain a MPH or two after TJ surgery?
#37: #35: Yes, but it’s because they spend a long time without pitching during rehab.
It’s likely that after prior to TJ surgery, the guys have lost velocity. After TJ, they get back closer to where they wore at the start of their pitching. And that is often a bit faster than they were immediately before the surgery.
Didn’t Jay Buhner have TJ surgery at one point?
In ’98 I believe, but then he came back in time for Opening Day ’99.
He was never the same though after all those injuries starting pouring onto his plate in ’98, aside from the 2000 season of course.
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Crazy thought, but consider:
[deleted, off-topic]?
here is a list 🙂
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_who_have_had_Tommy_John_surgery
While talking to a doctor, I brought up Guardado. He said that UCL tears in elbows ordinarily do not require surgery. The person would retain full movement after the ligament heals, although they might experience minor loss of strength. Under such circumstances, the risks of surgery (primarily nerve damage or infection) would outweigh the modest benefits of surgery. Only a severe tear would require surgery. But even then, some people opt against surgery, as the potential consequence would be an inability to raise their arm all the way up.
People live happy lives with tears in their UCL (and ACL for that matter), its just they aren’t professional athletes.
Sure, I could have lived a happy life with my knee buckling under me half the time when I got up from a chair. I just chose not to.