Mariners to season ticket holders: Bavasi, Hargrove to return
With commentary. Short version: Lincoln/Armstrong says “Bill Bavasi will continue to lead our baseball operations and Mike Hargrove will continue to manage the team.”
The full letter, with extra snarky comments, after the break.
With the 2006 baseball season about to conclude, the Seattle Mariners would like to thank you for your support and share our thoughts as we look ahead to 2007.
It would have been great if they’d just left this blank, to mirror the ownership’s general cluelessness.
Or put “duh” and then signed off. I would have accepted that, too.
Although this was our third consecutive losing season, there were a number of bright spots and several areas of improvement on the team this year, which are discussed in more detail below. We are well aware that your patience is not infinite. Neither is ours. Like you, we wish the rebuilding process was much quicker and that the Mariners would be in the playoffs next week. We remain determined to get things turned around as quickly as we possibly can, and in doing so, we ask for your continued patience.
We’re experiencing technical difficulties. “Full House” will return in a moment.
While our goal remains the same - to bring a World Championship to Seattle - we recognize that you will judge us by the results. We know that there is still a great deal of work to do to get us to our goal and that you, like us, are anxious to see some concrete progress. Well, we do think we have made progress!
Super!
After reviewing all aspects of our organization and looking ahead, we believe that:
• The Mariners are much better at both the Major League and minor league levels than we were in 2004, when the rebuilding process began. The talent level is better and deeper and gives us the flexibility to make trades that will help us.
Okay, sure.
• More pieces of the puzzle are in place today than a year ago. The emergence of shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt, second baseman Jose Lopez, catcher Kenji Johjima and outfielder Chris Snelling have solidified several key positions for us. Along with veterans Raul Ibañez, Ichiro Suzuki, Richie Sexson and Adrian Beltre, there is a good foundation in place to build upon.
Uhhhh… so is the implication here that Sexson/Beltre/Ichiro are all going to be back? Because that’s going to do a lot to keep the team from improving next year.
• Our bullpen, with J.J. Putz, Rafael Soriano, Julio Mateo, Mark Lowe, George Sherrill, Jake Woods and several other young arms, is a strength. It allows us to build the pitching staff from back to front, and our main off-season focus will be on upgrading the starting rotation. Felix Hernandez and Jarrod Washburn are the only current starters under contract beyond this season.
“Back to front”? What the heck does that mean? Is that the roster construction version of “shortening the game”?
• During the second half of the season, the Mariners became the second youngest team in Major League Baseball (only the Florida Marlins were younger), including the youngest pitching staff. This transition from a veteran team was by design and it bodes well for the future. The first step for young players is to establish themselves as quality Major Leaguers. The next step is for them to grow together as a “team,” a winning team that evolves into a legitimate contender.
Oooooooooh boy, the grow-together-as-a-team. Instead of sending players to winter ball, they’re going to send them to winter camp, where they’ll roast marshmellows and tell ghost stories. Wheee!
Also: the move to youth generally, sure. But they signed Carl Everett last off-season and gave Ibanez a ridiculous extension. Was it a weighted youth movement?
• Our farm system has become much more productive. Prior to the roster expansion on September 1, 19 of the 25 players on our roster were either products of our farm system or originally signed by the Mariners (Ichiro, Kenji, Sherrill).
That’s a weird metric to use, but oookay.
• The Mariners have shown steady improvement over the past three seasons, with win totals increasing from 63 to 69 to 76 (with three games to play this weekend), including a 42-36 mark at Safeco in front of the home crowds.
That’s not a particularly hard mark to improve on. They’re kind of bragging about how awful the 2004 retooling was (and they didn’t go into that as a rebuilding year, either).
• We have more work to do. And we believe that we have the right people in place to get the job done. Bill Bavasi will continue to lead our baseball operations and Mike Hargrove will continue to manage the team. We believe that they are the right people to lead us to the next level. We have great confidence in their abilities. In our view, continuity of leadership is extremely important at this point in time.
(jaw agape)
If the ownership of the team wants us to know that they have great confidence in Hargrove, doesn’t that tell us that their confidence is worthless? That they really, truly are unable to judge managerial talent? Or, at the very least, that they’re lying to us?
As Ralph Malph commented: If Mike Hargrove is uniquely qualified to lead a young team, then I’m uniquely qualified to perform neurosurgery on wombats.
And if the other message is that continuity of leadership is more important than competence, what are we to take from that?
Under Bill’s watch, we have seen a dramatic improvement in our scouting and player development departments, which has already resulted in several top prospects climbing quickly up the minor league ladder and playing key roles for us this year.
Sure, okay.
Mike is uniquely equipped to lead a young team. His experience in developing and dealing with young players is one of the reasons we hired him in the first place. And we have watched as Mike has kept all his players - veterans and young players alike - focused and playing hard every day of the season. We bounced back from the tough road trip in August by winning series from the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels and Tigers, and continued to play well in September.
I can’t even believe that.
Mike is uniquely equipped to lead a young team.
This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard from M’s ownership. Hargrove has demonstrated, over and over again, that he prefers experience to talent, age to youth, is a poor judge of talent, a poor in-game manager. What are those unique qualifications, exactly?
I cannot believe that Hargrove has the endorsement of ownership, much less that he’s returning next year. Whether or not the team played well in selected series late in the season, whether or not they had a winning record at home, Hargrove went through stretches this year where he could not do right, running the team out of games, mismanaging the bullpen. The Twins may well owe their playoff berth to the M’s, who laid down for them mid-season, after which the Twins pulled themselves together and went on a long run of success. The A’s ran circles around the M’s. They were trounced by divisional opponents.
Hargrove is not a good manager. He’s not a good manager of young teams in particular, but he’s not a good manager in general.
This is appalling.
This is where things stand as we prepare for a busy off-season. Our ownership group will continue to provide the necessary financial resources for the club’s success. Their goal is to get the Mariners back to the playoffs and bring a World Series to our fans in Seattle and throughout the Pacific Northwest.
Uh huh. Soooo… payroll cuts?
Along with you, nearly 2.5 million fans enjoyed watching Major League Baseball at Safeco Field this past season. The fan support has been remarkable. In addition to our commitment to the team itself, we are also committed to making Safeco Field a special place where you, your family and guests can enjoy a first-class entertainment experience in a safe, clean and family-friendly environment.
That’s the M’s, folks: they’re the Family Fun Center with the Moose in a uniform. Yayyyy!
Once again, we appreciate and thank you for your support of Mariners Baseball.
I wish I could return the thought.
Sincerely,
Howard Lincoln
Chief Executive Officer Chuck Armstrong
Chief Operating Officer
Snarkily,
Derek
I’m quite literally speechless about this move.
Retaining Hargrove, combined with those words about how he is supposedly uniquely qualified to manage a young team (have they even WATCHED any games this year? or seen Hargrove continue to sit young players uselessly?) just demonstrates that the people running the Mariners don’t Get It.
There is something else they won’t be getting. Much of my money for tickets next year.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:04 pmI think everyone who gets this email should reply back with a link to this page; let them know exactly what we fans think of their… “creative writing excercise”.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:05 pmSo, I’ll reiterate the question/suggestion I brought over at LookoutLanding:
Can someone please hack into Ichiro’s bubble and tell him to use his Samurai mind tricks in a meeting with Yamauchi to get rid of CHowArmLinStrong???
September 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pmThe sad/funny thing is that the letter has no reply capability. I tried, it bounces and the only feedback mechanism is a phone call to the season ticket holder line. They are not having a fun day after my wife put in her 2 cents
September 28th, 2006 at 3:09 pmThis pretty much takes all the excitement and joy any good news in the offseason will bring. They could sign Cy Young, Babe Ruth, and Lou Gehrig and Grover would manage them into the cellar.
So. F’ing. Tired.
I just bought a house, so at least I won’t have to scrimp and save for Ms tickets. That will make the spring and summer mortgage payments easier to make, I guess.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:09 pmDave, I know you’ve constantly said “don’t worry, Hargrove won’t be back, i can’t say why i know, but i do…” How does your information jive with the Lincoln letter?
Is Howie playing PR101, or is this truly the direction the Mariners have chosen to take?
September 28th, 2006 at 3:10 pmNot to speak for Dave, but it’s clear there’s a lot of PR here - Mateo’s name in talking about the strength of the bullpen, for instance. And some of the guys they’re talking about might yet traded.
But that part was pretty clear.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:13 pmThere’s absolutely nothing wrong with that letter except for the Mike Hargrove part.
Thanking people *is* a “duh” thing to do, but you do it anyway.
Overall, the year *was* a good one for allowing young talent to develop. No argument there.
The Hargrove thing is enough to make me write to the Mariners and tell them I am serously considering not renewing my season tickets after 12 years because of it. The aggravation and irritiation of wathcing him “manage” a game is excruciating.
But apart from that, the letter’s OK. Not War and Peace, but it doesn’t have to be.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:14 pmHoward Lincoln is just pure evil. It’s like in the movie Major League 1 & 2 where the owner of the Cleveland Indians made them do horrible on purpose so she could move them out of Cleveland. That’s the same thing with Lincoln only he’s the CEO.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:16 pmHey, I did say extrasnarkiness. Had that part not been in there, I’m sure I could have gone without posting about it at all. But once riled… man this pisses me off.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:16 pmW. T. F?????????????
As a season ticket holder, this letter is the last thing I’d want to read. Yes, they send out these puffy sorts of letters every year, but this one is truly egregious. “There’s nothing wrong! Carry on! Ignore the man in the manager’s uniform!”
This really, truly makes me question whether I want to hand them my season ticket deposit for 2007.
And yes, if they’re in the letter, they’re coming back. If they weren’t mentioned, they wouldn’t be (c.f. the 2004 letter where Melvin wasn’t mentioned once).
September 28th, 2006 at 3:16 pmMy head knows that managers really have less impact than most folks give them credit for, and that a team managed by Hargove could, given enough talent, be a good team.
My heart says that if the Mariners are managed by Hargrove next season that they will not be able to make the playoffs.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:17 pmI think it’s important to talk about the “managers don’t really have much of an effect on the team’s success” point, in this context.
Overall; sure. Managers don’t have an enormous effect on a team’s on-field performance. I think that DMZ had a good post about this once where he estimated it was in the single-digits as far as win totals (I may be misremembering, don’t shoot me if I am!).
But Hargrove’s managing this year, from the laughable lineups he’s trotted out onto the field, to his love affair with Willie Bloomquist, to his bullpen management, to his underuse/misuse of young talent, has been the absolute worst I’ve seen in the time I’ve been a baseball fan.
So he is costing you, really, about as many games as a manager CAN cost you. Even an ‘average’ manager would be a significant improvement, and with as tight as the playoff races have been this year, even a three game swing can mean the difference between making the playoffs, and not.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:21 pmYou can see why they aren’t making this a big ad campaign or anything. The timing, however, strikes me as particularly awful: right after the M’s let the Sacramento River Cats walk all over us (yeah, that’s Grover, keeping the team playing hard), this demoralizing statement appears.
Brilliant!
September 28th, 2006 at 3:21 pmThat seriously makes me grumpy. All we can do is hope and pray that that’s a bunch of PR shit and not the truth. Because if it is, well, I’ll become a new kind of fan.
I’ll be rooting for the Mariners and following them, but I’ll be rooting for them to lose
September 28th, 2006 at 3:21 pmThe only really optimistic thing I get out of the letter is this sentence:
Felix Hernandez and Jarrod Washburn are the only current starters under contract beyond this season.
To me, this would seem to imply no Meche next year, and I could live with that.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:21 pmI actually have a large “How to evaluate managers” post almost ready in the queue, too.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pmI am unable to wrap my head around this one. This is indeed a sad sad day for M’s fans. I went from hopeful about spring-training to destoryed about the entire 2007 season. AAAARGGGGGGGGG.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:23 pm17. How long will that take?
September 28th, 2006 at 3:25 pmProbably, yes. They like Putz and Soriano at the back end (sorry Raffy, no starting for you), so all they need to fix is the crap in front of them.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:25 pmI just don’t understand this. Statistical fans, casual fans, insider fans, barroom fans, everyone understands Hargrove needs to go — but management doesn’t?
September 28th, 2006 at 3:26 pmI was working on my apology post to Dave, for questioning if he was still sure that Hargrove would be gone next year after the articles from the Rohn firing. I wasn’t positive that Grover would be gone, but I really really wanted to believe.
Guess I can trash that .txt file now.
I go to Seattle twice a year to watch Mariner games (its about 5 hours away), this weekend is my final trip this year. I was so excited all week, and looking forward to leaving tomorrow. Now I’m just, meh about the whole thing. At least I get to watch Felix Saturday.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:28 pmThere’s only one way to respond to this news if it does not please you. Do-not-go-to-the-family-fun-center-that-is-Safeco. It’s the only response that resonates with Howie and Chuck.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:29 pmAt least now I have my first question ready for the feed with Bill in the spring.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:31 pmso, do we assume they have cleared with ownership, including Mr Yamauchi (and by extension, Ichiro?)
About the only argument I have heard from those who didn’t want to make a managerial change was ‘continuity’, so I guess the idea of 4 managers since 2002 is upsetting to the FO …. sigh. I had thought I ‘d resigned myself to this happening, but I don’t think I really did.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:35 pmAlso: the move to youth generally, sure. But they signed Carl Everett last off-season and gave Ibanez a ridiculous extension. Was it a weighted youth movement?
I think what it means is the youth movement is proceeding from back to front.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:39 pmI view this letter as being much like the State of the Union address. Largely meaningless and all political. Howie is trying to show that ownership is in touch with the fan base. Saying that while, yes, the season hasn’t been as successful as they’d like, look at all the good things that have happened.
This letter is all spin-doctoring and trying to pull any real meaning out of it is like trying to find deeper truths in Hillary Duff lyrics, there just isn’t any there. It’s all fluff, no substance.
If Bavasi has any sort of leeway this off-season, there’ll be changes. Hopefully ownership will “re-assess” their position on Grover after the season and make the appropriate changes.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:40 pmI’m flabbergasted.
My family is filled with a ton of baseball fans, and USSM is my secret stash of knowledge I use to dazzle them. I’ve been telling them for a long time that Grover is on his way out and none of them have ever believed me.
I’m so shocked that I’m probably not maknig any sense.
I am vigorously hoping that this is a PR move. I mean they extended Melvin’s contract, then fired him the next year. Maybe they’re doing the same thing here. It’s possible, right?
September 28th, 2006 at 3:40 pmThis is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard from M’s ownership. Hargrove has demonstrated, over and over again, that he prefers experience to talent, age to youth
oh, Derek. Why, didn’t you see in the Times this morning that Mike has learned his lesson???
“But the Mariners didn’t start winning until ending their reliance on the aging bat of designated hitter Carl Everett and the faltering arm of veteran closer Eddie Guardado. Until struggling pitcher Joel Pineiro was bounced from the rotation to the bullpen ….
“There’s a real thin line between being patient and being foolish,” Hargrove admitted this week, not naming any specific cases. “And I’ve learned that, no matter how long you do this, you have a tendency at times to cross that line. It’s not always bad that you do. It’s just bad if you don’t recognize it in time.”
September 28th, 2006 at 3:40 pmWhen you get an enema, does that not also proceed from back to front?
September 28th, 2006 at 3:42 pmOr a public flogging?
September 28th, 2006 at 3:44 pmWhen I read this letter, my lunch went from back to front.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:44 pmPlease I encourage all season ticket holders to please send a reply email voicing your displeasure over this decision. They value the season ticket holders opinions, right? Please gather everyone who is a season ticket holder and lets get this hargrove guy out of town once and for all.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:45 pmActually, other than the fact that Dave’s sources are usually right (and I’ll address that issue in a moment), I’m not sure why anybody would be surprised by anything that falls out of Lincoln’s mouth.
Repeat after me: he’s a businessman, not a baseball man. Still surprised by what he said? Repeat it again.
Lincoln may be a good businessman, though I don’t know how good you’d have to be to make an egregious profit with Nintendo when he was there.
However, he and Armstrong have demonstrated time after time that they are not good baseball men. For example, one of them might say, or cause to have said, “Mike Hargrove is uniquely qualified to lead a young baseball team.” This may well be true if the term “uniquely qualified” may span the spectrum from incompetent to brilliant. Note that it doesn’t say that he is good, just uniquely qualified. I am too; so are you, probably.
Now, as to Dave’s assurance that Hargrove is going to be fired: I pray that it is true. I will burn babies at the stake to make it true.
However, a possible scenario is this: Assume Dave’s sources are unimpeachable. Now, assume that King Lincoln & Prince Armstrong put their heads together and CHANGED THEIR MINDS! Dave’s source(s) remain unimpeachable, yet the causic biles of disappointment will now fill our mouths, plug our ears, and blind our eyes, and great will be the lamentation.
This is the way the season ends,
September 28th, 2006 at 4:00 pmthis is the way the season ends,
this is the way the season ends,
not with a swing but a forfeit.
I will not follow a team led by Hargrove.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:00 pmEveryone for the sake of the future of our team the Mariners, send angry letters now. Here is the email address to the Mans fan-care. fanfeedback@mariners.mlb.com
September 28th, 2006 at 4:02 pm“The Mariners are much better at both the Major League and minor league levels than we were in 2004, when the rebuilding process began”
Hmmm… haven’t they been saying for two years that we could retool and contend at the same time, and that this wasn’t “rebuilding?”
I don’t know why I bother anymore. Mostly because I fold a lot of laundry while watching the game…
September 28th, 2006 at 4:02 pmIts probably a little early to agree that the minor league system is in good shape or “restocked” either.
If Dave was fed dis-information its not the first time
something like that has happened.
All of the needs based posts about pitching are true as well as the need to score more runs that have been talked about to. As Derek notes the letter suggests or implies that is not in the cards.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:02 pmHOW COULD THEY DO THIS!?!?!?!
THIS IS SO F#*$ING STUPID!
The only f—ing reason Mike Hargrove even got the Cleveland Indians to be good was because of the talent he had, Vizquel, Sandy Alomar, Kenny Lofton, Manny Ramirez, Matt Williams, Jim Thome, Charles Nagy, Jose Mesa, etc.
A TRAINED MONKEY COULD’VE WON WITH THAT BUNCH!!!!
Do they realize how many times Hargrove could’ve put Snelling and Johjima in a game this year when he stuck with Rivera and Doomquist?
Do they realize how long he stuck with washed up players like Everett and Guardado?
Do they realize how he fails to bunt and steal at the right times?
Do they realize that if Hargrove is the manager one year from now, Ichiro will be leaving in free agency?
Do they even realize that maybe the reason why the M’s won a lot in September was because they were lucky and played in many meaningless games?
Do they realize that the M’s were the AL West’s whipping boys in a division where there are no superpowers?
Do they realize that there isn’t one leader that is on this team. And not this stupid “Ibanez is the next Papi” crap, I mean a vocal leader like a Jay Buhner who will pat you on the butt when you do good but kick you in the butt when you do terrible?
DO THEY REALIZE HARGROVE HAS THE PERSONALITY OF DRYWALL?
2.5 million fans!?! We had 3.5 million come through the doors in 2002 and many of the fans that came to the big games this year rooted for the OTHER team!!!
And Julio Mateo as a key contributor to our bullpen? That’s a laugh.
And what about signing Ichiro long term? Why won’t they comment on that.
And what’s this “committment” they are talking about? Committment to stupidity? Committment to greed? Committment to lying? Committment to demonstrating what happens when bueracracy runs a baseball team?
What exactly are you committed to Mr. Lincoln, besides your meds?
Do they not get it? Whatever happened to trying to win a World Series? Hell, the Seahawks had that goal 3 years ago when Todd Leiwike came in as CEO and only got louder when Bob Whitsitt left and Tim Ruskell came in.
This is just disgusting. This team had a chance to really go from being a mediocre to average team next year to being back on its way to being a GREAT team next year.
We could’ve traded Richie Sexson and a couple prospects we don’t necessarily need for a quality #2, #3, or #4 starting pitcher, then we could’ve turned around and signed the left handed sock we really needed a year ago, Mr. Seung-Yeop Lee, that all on top of getting Matsuzaka. We then could’ve turned around and gotten a new manager, and there were plenty to choose from.
Joe Girardi, Lou Piniella, Tom Kelly, Ron Washington, Joey Cora, John McLaren, Ron Hassey, and before a couple weeks ago, Dan Rohn, were all available to talk to. Sure none of them would’ve been perfect, but chances are they would have a much more common sense approach to baseball than Hargrove, and certainly one of those guys I just mentioned would’ve brought some leadership and/or comroderie to this team that so desperately needs it.
But now that won’t happen because Bavasi is still our GM, we will see him outside of breaking the bank for Matsuzaka, just overpay grossly for a #3 starter like an Adam Eaton and will also do nothing about the offense which wasn’t patient and still had Richie Sexson and Adrian Beltre struggling with batting average and/or run production all season long.
And since Hargrove is still manager, the M’s will continue to be no better than 3rd place in the AL West, they will not be patient or smart at the plate again next year, and Hargrove will continue to put out his ridiculous lineups that regularly feature automatic outs such as Willie Bloomquist and Renee Rivera.
This is the worst thing I could imagine happening to this franchise.
Even after all these years of all the losses, all the lost season ticket sales, all the lost TV ratings, all the opposing fans coming to the ballpark, all the hate mail, all the backlash on talk radio. . .
Howard Lincoln still doesn’t get it.
He only cares about making a profit and making us fans look like fools in the process.
Well, guess what Howard? When barely 2 million fans come to the ballpark next year, that’s right, I said BARELY 2 million, then you’ll see what us “customers” were talking about.
And say what you want about the Seahawks, but at least their ownership gives a crap. They actually show that they value their fans and are committed to putting out a winner on the field every year instead of trying to save face every September 30th by writing these BS letters to season ticket holders and having these “Fan Appreciation Nights” that salute the “best fans in baseball”.
I get it though, Howard is a bueracratic idiot and takes us for granted. But you know what? Once the Seahawks get close to another Super Bowl this year and the Mariners barely eclipse 2 mil. in attendance next year, then he won’t take us for granted, I guarantee it.
I hope your proud of yourself Howard Lincoln, that’s all I have to say.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:02 pmWho does Management have on their radar to placate the grumbling masses? Javy Lopez? Matt Lawton again? Josias Manzanillo? Butch Huskey?
And Who will they hire to fill out for Ron Fairly?!?! That surely should have been addressed.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:03 pmI will go farther, and predict that Ichiro will not resign with the club if he is to be under Hargrove.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:03 pm#last comment-Seahawks had goal of going to the Super Bowl 3 years ago, not the World Series, lol
September 28th, 2006 at 4:03 pmIf everyone shows displeasure to the decision of keeping Hargrove, its likely the front office will at least listen.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:03 pmI think it’s important to talk about the “managers don’t really have much of an effect on the team’s success” point, in this context.
It’s kind of like “replacement level” to me. There’s an implicit minimum level of talent required. “Replacement Level” doesn’t mean “replaced by any random schmoe off the street.” It assumes Major League talent. Mateo replaced by Fruto = okay, see how Fruto does. Mateo replaced by JMHawkins = danger to cars driving down Royal Brougham.
I’m going to call the Season Ticket Holders line too and let them know I ain’t a happy camper. Maybe I’ll suggest that since Hargrove’s teams usually collapse during the second half of the season that I’m willing to pay half-price for ‘07 if they keep him around. Or maybe I’ll get lucky and the “expand foul territory” idea will wipe out my seats and I won’t have to worry about it.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:05 pmThe most shocking part of the letter is that Lincoln actually admitted the team is in a rebuilding mode…3 years after the cat’s been out of the bag.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:06 pmActually, other than the fact that Dave’s sources are usually right
Dave and all the others who implied or flat said that they’d heard that Hargrove was gone.
#39– complaining that Hargrove played Johjima too little undercuts your argument just a bit– Joh needed more time off.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:08 pm#43-No they won’t! Don’t you get it? We’ve been trying to get them to listen to us fans for 5 years. And yet, they continue to ignore our needs and pleas and now when the most obvious decision of firing Hargrove needs to be made, they decide to stand by him.
Their PR department is full of BS, ’nuff said.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:10 pmThere’s no way this letter is a cover. This is the path they are taking - the men in charge have spoken. And, as dw said earlier, these letters are a precursor of things to come. I just went back and read 2004 and 2005’s “we sucked but we’re going the right direction” letters and if a player is mentioned, that player stays.
This means that they won’t be moving any significant salary to clear room for new starting pitching. They either raise the payroll or roll around in the dirt with the bottom-feeders for pitching. Maybe they should just save time and send out 2007’s letter now.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:10 pmUSSM (and LL) have seemingly huge readerships - can you guys put that to work, starting a huge letter writing / emailing / other forms of protesting campaign to remove Hargrove? Please?
September 28th, 2006 at 4:10 pmA TRAINED MONKEY COULD’VE WON WITH THAT BUNCH!!!!
This is damning, honestly. The ‘95 team had a dozen players that would at least get a look from the HoF voters. They covered over Hargrove’s inadequacies, at least until they got ground up in the playoffs.
DO THEY REALIZE HARGROVE HAS THE PERSONALITY OF DRYWALL?
This is not damning. Honestly, I could care less if a manager is dull or not. I mean, Torre is pretty dull. Cox is dull. Lloyd McClendon wasn’t dull. Personality means nothing. The ability to construct a lineup without screwing it up? The ability to effectively use a bench? The ability to let the young players play without reaching for a nearly deceased veteran to stand there like a stump and slug .200? That all means something.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:11 pm#46-Well, don’t you think Hargrove could’ve gone to Bavasi before July 31st and said we need to trade for a legitimate backup catcher?
September 28th, 2006 at 4:11 pmIf you haven’t sent an angry email to the M’s already, then you’re not helping the team. You can have more value to the M’s than Willie Bloomquist by sending an angry email to the M’s right now. fanfeedback@mariners.mlb.com
September 28th, 2006 at 4:13 pmTom, trust me: the Hawks have written plenty of these letters. You write these when you lose. The Hawks are winning.
“The emergence of Derrick Fenner and Dean Wells provides us with a nucleus we can build on to win the AFC West”
Sound familiar?
September 28th, 2006 at 4:13 pmIt won’t work, but OK, I’ll send one later tonight.
I’ll just copy and past my post and reword it.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:14 pmThat’s it. I’ve put up with 29 years of this. No more.
From this day forward until Hargrove is gone, I will no longer invest any time, energy or effort into following the Mariners.
Just as life’s too short to waste in unfulfilling personal relationships and dead-end professional exploits, so it is too short to waste on a team and an organization that doesn’t know how to win, doesn’t know it doesn’t know, and shows me by not bothering to figure out how to know that they don’t care.
I have one lifetime and many dreams. The dream of a Mariner team winning the World Series has been dashed beyond all repair into the foreseeable future, by the organization’s Onionesque insistence that a manager whose incomprehensible strategems directly result in lost ballgames is “uniquely qualified” to lead a young team into a contending future.
It’s time for me to turn my time and energy to the pursuit of dreams that have an actual chance for fulfillment.
I am so angry, sad, disappointed and hurt that I can barely stand it. I seriously want to shut off my computer at work, go home and cry. I feel like Tony Soprano must have felt when the FBI played him the tape of his own mother plotting to have him killed.
The Mariners?
They’re dead to me.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:15 pm#53-This is before the ownership changed, the relaignment happened, and the Seahawks actually set their sights on winning a Super Bowl rather than the AFC West.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:15 pmIf the Hawks go 7-9 this year, you don’t think we’re getting a “things will be better next year” letter?
September 28th, 2006 at 4:22 pmI made myself laugh thinking about the guy in KC that has to write this letter to the seven Royals season ticket holders.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:26 pmIs a letter like this more telling than excercising Bob Melvin’s option? Executing a contract seems like it should be a stronger sign of commitment, but for some reason this feels worse.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:26 pmI’m with Mr. Paisley - nothing much about this letter bugs me except every word written about the manager and his “qualifications.”
I’m on board with Bavasi getting another year, though if it were my place to do so, he would be told in no uncertain terms that success in rebuilding the farm will no longer be enough, and any repeats of his most egregious “proven veteran” mistakes at the major league level (Spiezio, Aurilia, Everett, et al., and even to a lesser degree Sexson and Guardado) will no longer be tolerated. Stuff that would have been unfair to fire you for after your first year is fair game now — you have two strikes now and are way behind in the count, Bill. That said, just working the count to what might be the metaphorical equivalent of a “good at bat” might buy him some more time — he doesn’t have to hit a home run.
Hargrove, OTOH, is way past striking out swinging on an 0-2 pitch in the dirt. He’s actually compounded that mistake and is arguing with the umpire, or something like that. I can see no justification for bringing him back, unless it is that management doesn’t want to pay him to not manage, and they think they can’t compete anyway next year and it won’t matter whether Hargrove costs them a few wins along the way, and besides, if they do end up having to fire Bavasi, they want the new guy to pick his own manager, so hiring a year ahead of the potential absence of a guy who already has a foot outside the door doesn’t make a lot of sense. [Which, IMO, is why they should have fired him LAST offseason. Harrummmmph.]
As upset as I am, I am simply unwilling as a lifelong M’s fan to give up my season tickets. I’ll leave that to the fair weather fans. I’ve seen my share of foul weather, and I don’t want to lose my prime spot on the beach for when the sun comes out again. I own an umbrella.
All things pass. Including kidney stones, and Mike Hargrove.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:29 pmMike Hargrove is the right person to lead this team? Didn’t he lead the Mariners to a record number of consecutive losses against divisional rivals?
I feel a Charlie Brown moment coming on. *AUGH!*
September 28th, 2006 at 4:29 pmWell, I don’t know about you guys, but I just emailed the mariners to express my displeasure.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:30 pmJim, what you just said was just about what I mailed them. You should too.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:31 pmTo those who think the M’s will listen to anyone who reads USSM, keep in mind the following quote from Mr. Lincoln from a year ago:
“All you have to do is walk around … and talk to people in the stands. It’s apparent there are fun things to do besides baseball. Sometimes you can sit with a group of 20 or so, and there’ll be one guy with his arms crossed saying, ‘Why don’t they do this or that,’ and the rest are there for a variety of other reasons.”
The only thing more unbelieveable than this quote is the fact that he got away with it.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:32 pmPerhaps we shouldn’t have been so surprised at this. Bavasi’s famously loyal to his guys, and has stuck by a controversial manager before…
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/193800_mbar05.html
Bavasi worked closely with Collins when he managed the Angels from 1997-99, and both men were victims of the 1999 meltdown. Bavasi gave Collins a midseason extension over the objections of players, but Collins quit in early September.
(emphasis added)
This is what I was afraid of way back at the beginning of the year- that a 75-80 win season would be viewed as “progress”, and an endorsement of questionable decisions made at the GM and field manager level. Yeah, thed organization can make the next step…or they can fall back down and stub their toes again. The muddled middle is a very tricky place to be.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:33 pmColor me not that dissapointed. I’ve noticed after a couple of the games recently that Hargrove and Ichiro seem to be getting along and laughing together. That’s a good sign as far as I am concerned.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:36 pmOh, and the letter is on the M’s site, too.
I’m also enjoying some schadenfreude about the people who wanted Bavasi back, because otherwise we’d end up with incompetent people in Mariner management due to Lincoln and Armstrong’s incompetence. Heh. Be careful what you wish for, folks. You might get it.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:40 pmI resigned today as a fan. You might want to resign with me. Here’s what I wrote to the team:
Dear Mariners,
September 28th, 2006 at 4:41 pmI wrote you earlier this year expressing my disgust with Mike Hargrove and informing you I would not set foot again in Safeco field until Mike Hargrove was no longer in your employment. I kept my word, I did not attend another game this season. As a fan I consider him indirectly in my employment as well. Since today you’ve informed me that you are retaining him for the 2007 season, I am informing you that I resign as your fan. Do you want the uniform back? I’ll return my well worn Mariners hat to the team store where I purchased it from in 1996 if you’d like it back. If not, I’ll just give it to the thrift store. Maybe there’s someone else out there pitifull and desperate enough to be a Mariners fan and subject themselves to team lead by a horrible manager you call good, that can pick it up and replace me. I’ll gladly resume my position as a fan when you demonstrate your good faith by giving Mike Hargrove his walking papers, until then I will not be back no matter what happens. If you’d like your hat back please reply. Otherwise you won’t hear from me again until the day you announce a managerial change.
Sincerely
Nathan
ex Mariners Fan.
I’m also enjoying some schadenfreude about the people who wanted Bavasi back, because otherwise we’d end up with incompetent people in Mariner management due to Lincoln and Armstrong’s incompetence. Heh. Be careful what you wish for, folks. You might get it.
EC fiddles while Safeco burns. What a great guy. I bet he’s wonderful to have at parties, too. There’s nothing that livens up a gathering like the smug guy yelling “I TOLD YOU SO!” at anyone in earshot.
Cam Bonifay: Tanned, rested, and ready.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:49 pmThe worst part is that they gave one losing season to Bob Melvin even though he actually had a good season the year before.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:51 pmIs it just me, or does it seem like baseball died?
September 28th, 2006 at 4:52 pmYou guys are such drama queens… it’s not Hargrove’s fault this team didn’t make the post-season. If we were out three games then OK, but you have to pin this year on the players.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:00 pmThis IS a real dilemma for those of you who have options to pick up another year on your season ticket plan.
1) You know Hargrove’s going to be back next season.
2) You don’t know if you want to go to games to watch him screw around 81 more times (not to mention watching him on TV).
3) You know Hargrove’s contract only pays him for one more year.
4) You know that if you send Mariners’ management an irate letter now saying you won’t be returning as a season ticket holder, they’ll let someone else take your place in line, and use “your” seats. Forevermore. You don’t get them back.
5) Then the Mariners hire a manager we all approve of, Snelling is healthy all year, and the pitching and defense is fantastic.
It COULD happen…
This is why I’m glad I live more than 200 miles away now.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:03 pmWith or without Hargrove, M’s aren’t making the world series any time soon anyway and that is what counts for me. This letter is not any worse than M’s on field performance and signings.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:04 pmI wrote the M’s a letter insisting that I was horribly offended by their letter. Not because they’re keeping Grover, but because they’re obviously lying as to why, and then offered a detailed explanation as to how anyone with a brain can tell that Grover is not “uniquely equipped to lead a young team.”
September 28th, 2006 at 5:06 pm72. Actually how do you not win (or at least over .500) with 2 players with 30 or more homeruns, a leadoff hitter hitting .320 and 3 starting pitchers with around 4.20 ERA or lower. Also the bullpen was really good. It’s just Hargroves fault he managed the team so poorly and making such stupid decisions.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:06 pmP.S. If you season ticket holders REALLY want Mariners management to “reassess” the situation after the World Series and before all those meetings, DO NOT send in your money. Bite the bullet and don’t regret it later.
That should send them a message they can’t misinterpret.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:07 pmThey already make it impossible to move your season tickets closer year to year, so why should you keep buying anyway?
September 28th, 2006 at 5:12 pmBtw, you KNOW they are going to use that “winning record at home” stat as a core message in their offseason propaganda.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:13 pmI had always thought the Ms played in Seattle so it was a bit surprising to realize upon reading that letter that the Ms infact play in Pleasantville. If Lincoln/Armstrong truly wrote that, I now believe it when the authors at USSM suggest they have very little to do with the day to day operations. I mean there’s out of touch and then there is OUT OF TOUCH….
I pretty much doubt anything in that letter is binding in anyway, but I have to say this-with all seriousness-if hargrove returns as the manager next year, I (and my family as it turns out)can very easily take a year off from Mariners baseball.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:15 pm#72: my neighbor’s rundown shack isnt the reason my roof is leaking but it does make it damn hard to enjoy the view from my backyard….
September 28th, 2006 at 5:21 pmTheir PR department is full of BS
isn’t that the definition of a PR department?
#65– FWIW, the players under Collins were objecting loudly & to the media. we haven’t heard that here, aside from rumblings that not everyone is happy.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:22 pmActually, I DID take a good part of this year off from watching (on TV) Mariners baseball…
We’d turn on the TV for nearly every televised game this season, and I’d listen with one ear and read a book…if anything interesting happened, like the M’s scoring a lot of runs or looking like they would win the game, I’d put the book down.
I did this the past couple of years, too, and I’ll admit, I DID finish fewer books this season, and turn off the TV in the middle of a game about half as much as I did last year.
(sometimes that doesn’t work so well, like the other night when the M’s looked like they were sunk against the A’s, but stormed back and won the game…. :blush: )
September 28th, 2006 at 5:24 pmEC fiddles while Safeco burns.
Why are you complaining? You got what you wanted: a GM who’s rebuilding the farm system, doesn’t have an impressive track record so far in a fairly long GM career, and is famously loyal to his staff and viewed as a good guy in baseball. There are worse things to have, as you keep pointing out, right?
So yeah, he didn’t stick a knife in Hargrove’s back when senior management clearly must have said “you get to keep your job, Bill, thanks for starting to turn the ship around”. Did you expect him to turn into George Steinbrenner?
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again- there’s more evidence that a team managed by Mike Hargrove can make the playoffs than one general managed by Bill Bavasi. So I refuse to consider this a death knell- it’s more an unfortunate consequence of the Mariners rewarding “improvement”- an unwillingness to re-evalute where they stand in terms of philosophy going forward and whether current management suits that. Instead of “hey, let’s examine the organization top to bottom because we’ve been in last place 3 years in a row”, it’s “yay! we don’t suck so much any more! contract extensions for people!” (shades of the 1980’s).
This becomes a veeery interesting offseason- because I’m pretty sure the M’s are going to write a very large check for Matsuzaka if he posts, but the M’s chances are going to come down to a couple of rolls at the MLB Free Agent Crap Table, and seeing if Bill gets lucky or blows it. I sincerely hope he’s learned from Mo Vaughn, Scott Spiezio, Jarrod Washburn and so on… because if he hasn’t, this could go very, very badly (think Orioles).
September 28th, 2006 at 5:25 pmSuch a fun thing to come home to.
Ignoring all the other points for now, I’ll just make a brief comment about the whole “he’s gone” thing I’ve been pushing for a few months:
I was wrong, obviously. Sorry. The information I get on almost everything from these guys has turned out to be accurate, so there wasn’t any reason for me to not believe the same people when they talked about the managerial decision. Clearly, they either lied to me, embellished the truth, or weren’t in a position to understand the full dynamics of the situation. If the situation was as bad as I was told it was, Hargrove wouldn’t be back in ‘07. So, the only conclusion I can come to is that the information I’ve been given on the situation all year isn’t reliable.
Sorry about that. I’ll try to keep from making the same mistake again.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:27 pmyou aren’t the only one Dave; Jason C. went on air last week saying Hargrove had been told he was done at the end of the year….
September 28th, 2006 at 5:33 pmDave, you didn’t do anything wrong. You told us what your sources told you. That’s all we can ask, I seriously wanted to hope that you right, even though everything I was seeing was saying that your sources weren’t accurate.
I’d rather you tell us everything you hear than nothing at all. Especially since what you hear is most of the time right.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:36 pmI’d say its about 90% likely that Jason and I got that information from the same guy.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:36 pmAm I the only one that noticed that they listed Jake Woods as a relief pitcher! That’s great news. We already knew the front office was full of BS. At least they view Jake Woods as a non-starter. Good news, I think.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:36 pmWhat dw said. Jeez, EC, you have so much need to be right that you’re enjoying the unhappiness of fellow fans who disagreed with you about Bavasi? Things suck for all of us, but at least you get a nice petty laugh out of it? How small the joys in your life must be.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:39 pmIt’s so frustrating to me that a team in such an affluent, educated, and forward-thinking city can seem so dense. I saw the M’s and the A’s in Oakland for the first time this year, and I kept thinking about the bizarro world in which one of the brightest minds in baseball runs a team in a genuinely terrifying neighborhood, while up in Seattle incompetence ruins the on-the-field product in the most beautiful stadium in the game. Aren’t things backwards sometimes?
September 28th, 2006 at 5:39 pmAnyway, I’m skeptical regarding the effectiveness of email campaigns/fan protests, but I’ll give them my two cents. (It’ll be the last two they get until Hargrove’s gone.)
Is there no chance that this is just a PR thing, or feeling out the waters and he’ll really be gone?
September 28th, 2006 at 5:42 pmI’ve said it before, I’ll say it again
Oh, I don’t think anyone has any illusions about that.
Dave, I don’t think anyone thought your sources would give you 100% accurate information, nor that you owe anyone an apology. As it is we get considerably more reliable information from you and this site than from anyone else. Thank you.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:42 pmHonestly, I’m not really that surprised that Dave was hearing one thing from his source(s) and something entirely different ended up happening; but I’m also inclined to come to a different conclusion about why the disparity in stories happened.
I’m sure that the general feeling within the organization was that Hargrove was gone at the end of the year, and then the word came down from On High that he was staying. This leads me to think one, or both, of two things (this is speculation of course):
1) There isn’t much consensus-building within the organization; probably not many opinions were solicited on whether Hargrove should stay or go. I’d say likely less than ten people had input into the decision, if that many.
2) As a sort of corollary to the above, most likely decisions like this either are decided pretty rapidly, or aren’t announced internally much before they are externally. I’m sure there were plenty of people within the organization that were as surprised by this as we were.
Again, this is all speculation, but it’s the /feel/ I get.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:45 pmI have been refreshing this thread for a while now, hoping that when a Dave comment showed up, he would still be saying that Hargrove was gone at the end of the season…
Now I have to confront the reality that Hargrove may very well be back next year.
I’m certainly not upset with Dave for passing on what he heard; I appreciate and enjoy his commentary and insight very much.
–Thanks Dave–
September 28th, 2006 at 5:48 pmOh, and as for an email campaign, here’s my $0.02.
Bad organizations make decisions based on popular opinion. If the Mariners were an organization that was willing to do an about-face on their decision to keep Mike Hargrove simply because we gathered the troops and made a lot of noise, I’d actually think less of them as an organization.
The Mariners don’t need to be deciding who is going to run the team based on the popular sentiment of the day. Yes, in this instance, I’m pretty sure the popular sentiment is right, but you know what, a lot of times, the popular sentiment is “Willie Bloomquist needs to play more!” or “Alex Rodriguez is an overpaid choker.”
The Mariners, rightly so, aren’t going to change their minds no matter how many emails they get. If it makes you feel better, by all means, fire one off; it can only help to make them aware of public sentiment. But I’m personally glad that public sentiment doesn’t have much of a say in how they run the franchise.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:48 pmYour snarkiness comes off mor elike bitterness at times, DMZ.
‘How dare families have fun at Safeco! Posh!’
Seriously, though, I agree with your sentiments. But, really, who didn’t see it coming?
I am, however, bitter of the fact my hopes up of Hargrove not returning next year was raised through USSM…
September 28th, 2006 at 5:49 pmMy “talk” with the Mariners Season Ticket holder people wasn’t much of a morale boost. The PR department must have whipped them until they memorized “Grover is uniquely qualified to manage.” However, when I mentioned that he wasn’t actually qualified to PLAY younger players, and asked why he plays Bloomquist and sits Snelling, Morse, etc she had nothing to say. She also could only manage to compare Grover to Lou in terms of developing talent (I had no idea there were only 2 MLB managers…). When I asked why I should have any confidence that Bavasi could even find 1 starting pitcher worth his millions, she responded that not only were Everett & Guardardo failed Bavasi picks, but Sexson & Beltre are as well.
Oh - and she could not guarantee that they weren’t going to raise prices again this year…
September 28th, 2006 at 5:49 pmSent my email, won’t work, won’t do anything, but I sent it.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:50 pmWill they kick me out of Safeco if I wear a “Fire Hargrove!” shirt this weekend.
Not that it will do anything other than make me feel better.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:53 pmI’m all for people letting their voices be heard about something like this, but Dave’s right. If popular opinion dictated how the Mariners were run, Willie Bloomquist would be standing out in the middle of the field all by himself, simultaneously playing every position on the diamond.
I’m more of a fan of sending an email than calling the poor folks answering the season ticket holder line, though. There’s not really much they can do, and it’s impolite to vent at someone who has no real ability to do anything about the issue you’re venting about.
The decision is made, all we can really do now is…well, mourn.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:54 pm#91 - I understand being skeptical about email having any meaningful impact. I’ve been very vocal on blogs about my disdain for Dudley. I’m pretty sure that does even less good, if that’s all we do. I sent this email to the Mariners:
I truly hope the Mariners will reconsider their apparent decision to return Mike Hargrove to the field in 2007.
Management may value continuity, but the fact reamins that this team has under-performed during Hargrove’s tenure and no discerning observer could conclude otherwise.
We as fans do not find it acceptable to count a rather isolated good stretch in inter-league play as “improvement” when we have been so incredibly un-competitive in our own division. Our record against Oakland is an embarrassment to Seattle. It seems foolish for the Ownership Group to provide funding for a product that is mismanaged so badly. Why should they continue to provide funding competitive with the top clubs in MLB only to have their assets squandered?
The fans I talk with on a regular basis have eagerly been awaiting the news that we would have something to which we could look forward this off-season. This news will serve as the “last straw” for many of them. Surely Mr. Lincoln does not want fans to give up on this franchise. His acknowledgement that patience is not endless is accurate. I’m afraid, however, he has misjudged the inflection point. If fans become as discouraged as I have witnessed so far today, the revenue stream will dwindle to the point that Mr. Linclon will will have limited choices to improve the team. I pray he will prevent the situation from reaching that point.
Sincerely,
CHH
I judge that they will lump the irate emails into “file 13″ so my approach was to at least appeal to sentiments they might actually think about. Maybe it will resonate, maybe not. There’s always time for torches and pitchforks later. I just feel to depressed to scream, and I had to do something.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:54 pmOOOH! I’M GAZING INTO MY CRYSTAL BALL. . .
I see many phones ringing at the Mariners ticket office, and they are very ANGRY phone calls.
And I also see browsers crashing.
On the website known as ussmariner.com and on the seattlemariners.com website for all ANGRY emails and comments being posted.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:54 pmWell, perhaps we can keep a dying ember of hope alive by positing a deep plot by management: Grover’s was told he’s gone, but was offered the opportunity to resign sometime later this winter after a faux affirmation of his status by management, thus allowing both sides to save some face and, perhaps, giving Grover an opportunity to shop his portly butt to some other organizations.
Okay, too Maciavellian by half, but in the spirit of the Bush administration’s pronouncements on weapons of mass destruction, it might be true.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:01 pmMy God that’s ugly. “Grover was told” is what was in my head.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:03 pm#101 - I didn’t exactly think my phone call would change the world. But considering they don’t have an email account set up for season tix holders to vent (as the Sonics do), and who knows where the feedback alias goes to (probably Carl Everett), then all I can do is talk to the people closest to what management cares most about - money.
I promise I didn’t raise my voice
September 28th, 2006 at 6:04 pmI’m hoping that this letter is the proverbial “vote of confidence” that often preceeds a sacking of the manager.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:05 pmTOLD YA SO. I couldn’t resist. I don’t have any inside sources, but if they didn’t ditch him early this year, and then not after that awful road trip, and then he and Bavasi are making lists of who to interview for bench coach next year and Hargrove gets to boot Rohn out of the organization….well, the signs were there.
Man, it sucks to discover Dave is mortal, or maybe that his and Churchill’s sources are. And when you want so badly to believe something (like Hargrove is gone), as we all wanted to believe that…
You guys can write all the e-mails you want, leave all the phone messages you want, send all the real letters you want. If you get anything back at all, it’s likely to look and sound a lot like the letter I got back last year when I cancelled my season tickets (of 8 years, driving back/forth from Olympia for my half of the package - 40x a year) over the Everett signing. Everybody has their last straw. And really, what you’re likely to find is that the Mariners don’t give a damn what your last straw is. They’ll tell you that they’re the ones in charge, it’s their decision to make, they have facts/knowledge that you don’t and they may even say ‘we regret that you feel this way’.
But as Dave correctly points out above, if they ran the team based on popular opinion, the voices that call KJR would have equal clout to yours.
The problem is, this is awful tough to watch.
SO glad I’m a Rainiers fan.
—
In other news, somebody posted that the Ms had said something stupid about not really caring about winning, but more about developing players in the minors…and that San Antonio was thinking they weren’t that interested in re-upping affiliation with the Ms.
The Ms’ AA team is no longer the San Antonio Missions. They signed an agreement with the West Tennessee Diamond Jaxx. Story here.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:07 pmThe only bright side to this is that Hargrove is now the official scapegoat for even a mediocre start next year.
If you bring in a new guy now, then there’s no way you can fire him a couple of months into the season if things start going sideways.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:07 pmIt should be interesting to see how many Mariners fans are out there that care about this to write letters, e-mails, and make phone calls about this. Or at least what percentage.
If I had to guess, the number/percentage is quite high.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:07 pmMATSUZAKA (See # 84) - Does anyone have a timeline on this? The deadline for posting? The deadline for submitting a sealed bid? The deadline for revealing the winning bid? The deadline for the Japanese team to accept (or reject) the bid? The deadline for the negotiations to conclude (successfully or unsuccesfully)?
September 28th, 2006 at 6:08 pmAnd is the posting bid a one-time expenditure–as Ichiro’s was? And (assuming that the Ms submit the winning bid) does the negotiated salary (and bonus) come out of that mysterious foreign player budget?
#92: I can’t imagine an organisation (especially one that plays to family values) would send THAT letter and then turn around and fire Hargrove…..
This is like having your brother marry a complete *bXtch*….while you dearly love your brother, the aggravation associated with visiting his house makes it better to just stay away….
I can’t stand Hargrove-brand baseball…dammit man i persevered thru the year but screw them…
September 28th, 2006 at 6:14 pmBut as Dave correctly points out above, if they ran the team based on popular opinion, the voices that call KJR would have equal clout to yours.
Interestingly, the few callers I heard to the Gasman’s show were unanimous in wanting Hargrove gone, but thought Bavasi was OK. Some of them were even coherent.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:22 pmWell, running a team by public sentiment may be foolish, but if we send factual, well-documented emails concerning Hargrove’s failings, surely THAT would get the job done, right?
Right?
Oh well, looks like it’s suicide for me again.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:34 pmI sent an email with my season ticket holder ID #. I don’t thinbk it does much, but I fugure at least they tally these thongs. I also told them that the glowing letter was almost an insult.
I take small solace in that fact that Snelling was mentioned in the “solidified several key positions” sentence with YuBet, Lopez, and Kenji, and also that there was no claim that the team would try to keep Meche or Piniero.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:35 pmThe sentiment in this link is the embodiment of the frustration I’ve felt with the Ms these past few years…..
if DMZ and Dave keep it up, I’m sure everyone will hear a bit of themselves in this passionate tirade… and if you’re like me and having trouble finding the words to describe how deeply you’re frustrated, this is a cathartic experience…
This is my first try at linking so hopefully, I’m not trying the patience of the powers to be twice over…
September 28th, 2006 at 6:47 pma an’s pain
a an’s pain=a fan’s pain….
September 28th, 2006 at 6:48 pmOh, and as for an email campaign, here’s my $0.02.
Dave is of course right that the Mariners won’t change anything because of a couple hundred angry calls and emails. If a few THOUSAND season ticket holders cancelled, that might get their attention.
My two cents is that a written letter sent via snail mail would carry more weight. It’s just too easy to fire off an email, especially as a knee jerk reaction or a mass mailing campaign, for them to carry much weight these days.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:57 pmAnd Daniel Caberea of the Orioles has just pitched a one-hitter.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:59 pmAside from our preference that the letter state the team’s intention to ditch Hargrove, what *would* be an acceptable letter? If you were, or are, a season ticket holder, what would you want it to say, and what would you expect it to say (the two may be different)?
September 28th, 2006 at 7:11 pm119 - I still think that kid will break out someday. Maybe even next year.
September 28th, 2006 at 7:12 pmHere are my feelings on the whole thing. This is the first time I’ve followed the Mariners closely the whole season. I’ve been to a few games before but I decided that this summer I wanted to really get to know the team. So I’m not as knowledgable about baseball as some of you.
What it comes down to is that it’s hard to watch a team perform below their talent level. I’ve been very impressed with the ability of a lot of these players. I think they’re a great young team that is as formidable as any when everyone is making a contribution. But the slumps they’ve gone through, particularly against division rivals, are frustrating because you know that they should be able to play better. Would a new manager be able to help them in this way? It seems like that should be part of the job…
September 28th, 2006 at 7:13 pm…but I fugure at least they tally these thongs
Eyes…burning…arhhh
Eh, crapola. Just, crapola. And here I thought a night off from losing to Oakland would cheer me up.
I guess the question now is, do they really believe this crap about Grover being the right guy, or are they just figuring that 07 is already down the drain and no sense worrying about being competitive until 08?
September 28th, 2006 at 7:14 pmI’m curious how long we’ll be calling for Bavasi’s head after he allows Mike Hargrove to hand pick this winter’s free agent signings.
If Willie Bloomquist is named the opening day right fielder over Chris Snelling, fans will finally see the real Bavasi that Derek warned us all about in 2004.
September 28th, 2006 at 7:35 pm