Daily Tidbits
Some interesting news today.
First off, Daisuke Matsuzaka will officially be posted this winter. Good to get that technicality out of the way.
Also, Joe Torre will return to manage the Yankees next year. If you believe the rumor mill, this means Alex Rodriguez will probably be traded. The Angels keep popping up as a possibility, which would suck, because I’d rather they not get another all-star. John Hickey pens a weird piece in the P-I this morning putting forth the possibility of trading Beltre for Rodriguez. I can’t see the Yankees being interested, I can’t see Rodriguez being interested, and I’m not totally sure the Mariners should be interested, honestly. One of the untold stories of the past year and a half has been A-Rod’s massive defensive decline; he’s now barely a passable major league third baseman, and any ideas of him playing shortstop again are probably out the window.
And finally, looking through the RSVP emails, it looks like we still have spots open for this Friday’s USSM get together. Forget Bob Dylan; he’s in town more often than I am, and he’s not going to feed your baseball fix. If you don’t have any plans Friday night, you really should come. You won’t regret it.
Comments
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How is it possible that A-rod has declined so massively at 3B? I doubt you’re claiming this based on error totals, and I don’t have the defensive metrics that some use handy, but how does someone go from being a gold-glove caliber shortstop do a dead horse third baseman in 2-3 years? Couldn’t his (much-publicized) defensive woes be partially attributed to A-Rod’s mental state during this year?
Don’t take this as an endorsement to bring him back. However, if the Yanks took Beltre and evened out the salaries…well, I’d be verrry tempted. And I don’t think we ought to hide behind the ‘Beltre is only 28′ line much longer – many many players peak young.
I bet that loser Dylan doesn’t even know what xFIP is!
And let the Daisukestakes (aka Matsumania) begin…
I’ve been wondering if some of A-Rod’s defensive struggles have been related to him being less suited to play 3B than SS. It seems like his range is still good at 3B, helping Jeter look better, and that some of the balls that get by him down the 3B line are related to him trying to compensate for some of Jeter’s lack of range. That may just be my anti-Jeter biases influencing the way I look at the situation though; it’s hard for me to tell.
But if his range is good and his reaction time is a little slow, is there any way that he would be a better SS or 2B than 3B, even if they are overall more demanding defensive positions? I could be framing the issue all wrong, and I trust Dave if he tells me that A-Rod really has just declined a ton. But I’ve managed to convince myself that this is a possibility, at least until the forthcoming smackdown about to be laid on the idea.
From my limited observation, a lot of ARod’s defensive troubles relate to throwing errors — and not all of them can be attributed to having Boat Anchor Giambi as a sometimes-target. Whether it’s a difference (compared to throwing from short) in distance, angle, timing, or something else I don’t know, but it would appear to be a big factor in his decline relative to when he played SS. I’d be tempted to move him to 2nd, actually, unless that screwed him up even more.
Also, is it true that whatever team picks up A-Rod won’t get any of the Texas money but will end up on the hook for the whole contract? That could be pretty intimidating if he really can’t play SS anymore.
Hickey’s at it again. Alex’s best OPS while in Texas was 1.021 in 2001. He had 1.026 in 2000 for the M’s with half of his games in Safeco, and if you fix those polar opposite park effects on righties it isn’t even close. Then there was his 1.045 in 1996, granted, in the Kingdome.
Only thing coming close is 1.031 in 2005 in New York.
If you’re going to throw out wild possibilities at least back up the “factual” side of your article with true notes.
Sure, his defensive woes might be partly mental, but so were Chuck Knoblauch’s. In fact, at this point Alex might be better off in the outfield or at first. He wasn’t ever the best defensive shortstop (Gold Gloves are meaningless), and at this point I’d say the Yankees chose wisely when they decided which of Rodriguez/Jeter to move off the position.
and at this point I’d say the Yankees chose wisely when they decided which of Rodriguez/Jeter to move off the position.
Which is saying something.
8, it is starting to look that way (against all the odds), but I’m still not sure that having them both on the left side, with Jeter at SS and A-Rod at 3B, isn’t uniquely unsuited for their strengths and weaknesses. Mind you, I’m not at all saying that I’m convinced it is that way, just curious what other folks think about that.
If you want to find a player who’s a lot like Alex Rodriguez today, in terms of defensive skills, you should look at the guy who drew a lot of comparisons to him when he was called up. Not for his hitting, of course, but because of the similar size, the position he played, and the way this player idolized Alex.
In other words, Mike Morse.
Could this season be an anomaly? He was pretty bad defensively, sure. But he was also under the microscope for much of the season, and what could have begun as an uncharacteristic series of missed catches and errant throws could well have snowballed into a defensive mess under the jeers of the fans and NY dailies.
I just can’t believe that someone, especially Alex, can come apart like that defensively. Can reaction time and reflexes decline so dramatically over the course of one winter? I’m with darryl zero. I think it’s because he has to cover all the ground between third and second base.
The strangest part about Hickey’s article isn’t that he thinks the M’s might be interested in bringing A-Rod back. Whatever…
It’s the fact that he thinks the M’s (or anyone) could do it for only $2.4 million! So, the Yankees are going to:
A) Want Beltre? B) Take on his whole contract. C) Pay us to take A-Rod too! Sorry John…keep dreaming. Also, I’m not 100% on this but, IIRC, Texas only pays their portion for Rodriguez to play on the Yankees, not other teams & this doesn’t even deal with the fact that A-Rod has a no-trade. Get a clue, Hickey!
Alex Rodriguez put up an extra 50 points of OBP and 60 points of SLG over Adrian Beltre, and that was in a down year. Yes, his home park helps him and Beltre’s park hurts him. However, in his one full year at Safeco Field, A-Rod hit just fine. I’m not worried about his ability to hit the ball in Seattle.
His three year splits (’04-05) in Seattle are monstrous, with a 1.301 OPS. (Caveats: Small sample size, facing Mariner pitching.) I wish there was more data than three year splits available.
Hickey’s got an excellent point about salary, too. In fact, I think I’d be willing to package Beltre plus Sexson to get A-Rod, and the Yankees just might do it. We might even be able to get ‘em to throw in a player or two. The M’s then go out and locate either a LF, a DH, or a 1B to take up the slack. Those are the easiest positions in baseball to locate.
Hell, if they’ll do the deal just for Beltre, then pull the trigger. A-Rod’s a legitimate Hall of Fame talent. Reel him in.
With Yu-Bet out there to protect his left at short, A-Rod can move to his right a little and cover more ground. That helps cover up any diminished fielding ability. (And I’m not sold that there’s a huge problem, either.)
In other words: Go do it. I think getting Alex Rodriguez back is smart.
Re: the Torre announcement — I have absolutely loved reading the Yankees blogs during this Torre drama the past few days.
When you see so, so many posts to the tune of, “now that we have Torre, all we need is to sign Zito, get the gyroball guy (I don’t think they even know his name), get one more quality arm as well, get some defense at the infield corners, and we’ll be fine”
It’s just that simple huh? I’m SO going to love when the “gyroball guy” goes elsewhere, Zito tanks for the Yanks, and such unrealistic expectations lead to Steinbrenner turning 360 degrees next October.
Er, Steinbrenner’s head, that is.
I’ve thought through all the possible trade scenarios and I just can’t see Arod coming back to Seattle. If (and that’s still a huge IF) Arod is traded its all but a given that he aint going no where unless the Yankees get good young pitching in return.
I can’t really see why the Yankees would trade their good hitting head case at third base for the Seattle’s good fielding head case at third base. They could get better offers of good young pitching from LAA angles, MN Twins, or LA Dodgers….then pick up a warm body to play third (Blalock can be had pretty cheap right now), that would trim payroll and add pitching….A trade with Seattle would do none of that.
But hey, i never thought they would pick up the Abreu contract?!?!?
Watching the incessant Alex Rodriguez blunder reels on the television these days, it really seems as though he’s lost some mobility in the field. I’ve also heard rumblings that he was playing through a shoulder problem this summer (his .213/.346/.348 June line–way out of line from his other months–might suggest his shoulder hurt worst in June), which might help explain some of the throwing problems.
Seconding what other are saying, though, I don’t see any trade that makes sense to bring him to the Mariners.
Despite my pseudo-defense of A-Rod’s…er…defense, I’m not sure what bringing him here would be like for this team. In a straight A-Rod for Beltre swap, we take on like $11 million, which would make him an awful lot like Manny in Dave’s plan…except we don’t have Beltre anymore either. You could certainly argue that’s a good thing, but I’m having trouble seeing it that way.
Anyway, I don’t see the Mariners or A-Rod agreeing to this. It would be too weird PR-wise for everyone involved. But I guess despite my dislike of the guy I’d have to say it would be a good deal for the Mariners. If he could show some contrition for being such a smarmy bastard over the past couple years I’d even probably become a fan of his again pretty quick.
Next question, if he destined to become a first baseman in the next couple of years (and probably a very one good defensively), how much is he worth there? Not $25 million, right? So, how much?
If Manny Ramirez is a good idea, so is A-Rod. They’re both HOF-caliber right-handed power hitters with salaries in the same range. A-Rod is also younger, and there’s no comparison in the field.
I think Beltre for A-Rod is a fantasy, but what if we threw in Jake Woods? If still no, Rafael Soriano?
I would love it if Dave could post two things:
(1) Clarification of whether or not Texas picks up the extra salary even if he moves.
(2) Whether or not A-Rod can fill in for Manny as a plan B in his offseason master plan.
Also, can I just say that I can’t believe how long we have to wait to find out who gets Matsuzaka? What are the odds the Yankees tie up some payroll with Zito or something before they make their posting bid? 0%? I’m going to have a heart attack before November first.
19: NY only pays A-Rod $16M per year. Anyone they traded him to would pay just as much. He’d be significantly cheaper that Manny.
I think there’s three issues with regards to A-Rod’s defense:
1. He’s bulked up the past year or two, and it’s hurt his mobility. He’s not the lean, limber kid he was in Seattle or even Texas. He’s carrying some weight now, and that has hampered his range.
2. Players peak defensively at about age 24. A-Rod’s 31. He’s played an awful lot of baseball the past 12 years, and his body appears to be wearing down. Because we don’t have easy access to good defensive statistics, most people underestimate normal defensive decline.
3. I think this is the big one, personally; there’s a mental aspect to the game that has worn on Alex Rodriguez. He’s been booed in every road park for the last 5 years, and now he’s been booed at home for the last year. He’s had people telling him he can’t produce under pressure and that he’s not a championship caliber player. He’s experienced essentially non-stop negative reinforcement, and he probably cares more about his public image than any player in baseball. The guy deeply wants to be liked, and he just isn’t, at all.
We don’t talk about the mental aspect of the game that often, because it’s so hard to understand what’s going on in someone’s head, but we all acknowledge that the problems guys like Rick Ankiel and Steve Blass ran into were not physical, but they completely derailed the careers of talented players. The mental pressure put on A-Rod hasn’t made him crack, but I’m pretty sure that it’s effected his on-field performance.
The mental aspect is one of the main reasons I’m not sure Seattle’s a good fit for him. He’s not going to be welcomed back with open arms by the entire fanbase, and he’s still going to have to answer questions about the contract, why he left, and live up to the pressure of being the guy who pulls the Mariners up from their last-place finishes.
I think, for his sake, he needs to go somewhere that wants to love him. The Angels make all kinds of sense, with a supporting cast including guys like Vlad, Escobar, and K-Rod, and a team that is ready to take a run at the World Series for the next 4-5 years with a couple more good hitters. The spotlight wouldn’t be on him like it would in New York or even Seattle, and he could go back to just being a great player.
For Alex Rodriguez, I don’t think Seattle’s a very good idea.
As for the Beltre-for-Rodriguez-and-Yankees-pay-cash idea, it’s about as likely as swapping Bloomquist for Pujols. It’s a fantasy. For what Rodriguez would cost in talent, the Mariners would be better served to hang onto Beltre and use their resources to fill a different hole.
#13 Texas still has to pay the Yankees the share of the salary they agreed to even if Rodriguez is traded. Obviously, any team, whether it be Seattle or another club, is going to insist that the Yankees pass on that money when A-Rod is traded.
You underestimate what can happen when the Steinbrenner and the New York fans want a player gone. You really think that Adrian Beltre’s salary is going to scare the Yankees away if they can rid themselves of a player that they see as a cancer? Now that Torre’s back, it’s a good bet that they’ll try to trade Rodriguez. From Torre’s comments in SI about A-Rod to not telling him that he was batting 8th the other night, it seems Torre doesn’t respect Rodriguez and would prefer that the distraction be removed.
You don’t think the Mariners would bring him back if the deal is right? At this point after 3 straight losing seasons, they seem like they’re willing to do whatever it takes (including raising the payroll to $95 mil according to Larry Stone’s article in Sunday’s Times) to win again.
I don’t pretend to know whether A-Rod would come back here, but before he left he was loved here and if he returned he’d be loved again. And he knows that even if he performed poorly in Seattle he’d never face what he faced in New York, from the fans, management and his own teammates.
#20 Exactly. If Ramirez is a good idea (and I think it is), Rodriguez is a much better idea since he’s younger, cheaper, plays a premium defensive position rather than Manny, who would either be a DH or a LF. And New York is much likelier to take on the salary of Beltre (or Sexson) than Boston.
My impression is that Texas will not pay the rest of the salary if he is traded. Where have you read otherwise? I happily admit to being confused on this subject, but I’d like a source before I accept that completely.
Dave, what do you think the Angels would be willing to give up to get him?
Jon,
The problem with ARod versus Ramirez is that it doesn’t fill any hole. You already have Beltre at third. He’s younger and better defensively. With Ramirez you get someone at a different position. I’m going to wager that Beltre + Ramirez would be greater than ARod + whoever you get to sign for the corner out field spot/DH.
“The guy deeply wants to be liked, and he just isn’t, at all.”
Who doesn’t? That’s fundamental human nature. I think you’re right, and that could wear on anyone.
I would not be surprised if Alex Rodriguez calls it quits when his contract expires and tells the world, “This isn’t fun any more. I quit.”
#28: Then again, Alex Rodriguez is going to break the all-time home run record, and how fun would that be to see in a Mariner uniform?
Arbeck (#27),
I believe the “master plan” had us sending Sexson off for Ramirez. In this case, we’re just substituting one corner infielder for the other.
We can leave Ibanez in the OF if no corner OF is forthcoming.
I’d rather have Beltre than Sexson, but then I’d rather have A-Rod than Ramirez. I don’t understand why Manny’s various shenanigans aren’t a problem but A-Rod’s difficulties dealing with the NY media are a deal-breaker.
Dave what do you think the possibilty percentage is that the Mariners get Matsuzaka?
The best thing that could happen to A-Rod would be a deal to a middle-of-the-road National League team, someplace without a lot of expectations that could benefit from him at SS the next year or so until he’s ready to move to 1B or an OF corner.
I’m thinking Colorado. And I can think of the perfect deal, but I’ll spare everyone from Rockies roster-bation.
Dave: Going back to your Manny deal, let’s say the Yanks offered you A-Rod for the same players — Soriano, Reed, Cruceta. And assume that they’ll kick in some money to basically make the money differences between a wash. Manny or A-Rod?
I’m under the belief that the frontrunners for Matsuzaka are Seattle and New York. But what do I know. That’s just what I’m trying to tell myself.
Glad to see the Lions posted. Is it totally irrelevant that “Dai suke” means “give to the bitch” in russian? Matsuzaka means nothing, but sounds like it could be a strong liquor.
Mariner Minors is reporting that Felix Hernandez is also going to the AFL for some Winter Ball. Even if it’s limited activity, is this a wise thing to do considering how meticulous they were about his innings pitched this season?
31 & 33 – I’ve been listening to WFAN in New York online this afternoon (so bad it’s good) and they and the majority of the callers are already penciling Matsuzaka into their starting rotation – they consider it a done deal. Doesn’t mean anything, but I thought it was interesting.
#24: Jon, I should have realized that, if A-Rod is traded, the Texas money would be passed along. However, it’s still a pipedream for Hickey to think that the Yankees would be willing to downgrade to Beltre (who, though certainly not terrible, is viewed as a bust), take on his entire contract AND give us money to take A-Rod off their hands…
I wonder how many Manny for A-Rod rumors we’ll see this winter.
My big budget problem for your big budget problem, Mr. Steinbrenner.
FWIW, at the time of the deal, from John Shea:
“Under terms of the trade, the Yankees will back-load A-Rod’s contract and pay him $15 million each of the next three seasons, $16 million in 2007 and 2008, $17 million in 2009 and $18 million in 2010. He’ll have $1 million deferred in each of the next four seasons, payable in 2011. He’ll also receive checks from the Rangers, who’ll pay $3 million in 2004, $6 million in 2005 and 2006, $7 million in 2007, $8 million in 2008, $7 million in 2009 and $6 million in 2010. That amounts to $43 million, and the remaining $24 million (of the $67 million the Rangers agreed to pay) will be deferred. The Rangers still owe Rodriguez deferred money from the past three years and $4 million of his $10 million signing bonus. They’ll be paying through 2025.”
Is Beltre really viewed far and wide as a bust? His Triple Crown numbers look good, plus he’s a god on defense.
Speaking of Beltre rumors,
“The Padres will again talk to the Mariners about third baseman Adrian Beltre, another player whose contract exceeds his present market value. Beltre, whose best seasons have come in the NL West, is guaranteed about $36 million over the next three years.”
from the San Diego Union-Tribune
Here’s the best information available on Texas’ obligations to Rodriguez, and I’ve never seen any legitimate source citing the weird “they only pay NY” clause that somehow became a popular myth:
#26– every speculation (outside of LA) I’ve read starts with Ervin Santana– one added in Chone Figgins and Nick Adenhart; another added Brandon Wood.
#42 — that’s what I remembered about the ‘extras’…
dw,
If substitute a-rod for ramierez in dave’s plan you end up with something like this: edmonds in left, a-rod at third, ibanez at first, and a hole at DH. Or you could DH ibanez and sign a first baseman. I still think you have to trade sexson for payroll reason. Or you could leave ibanez in left, keep sexson and forget about edmonds. I think signing a first baseman would be an offensize downgrade from Dave’s plan and I think forgetting about edmonds in left leaves the team much worse defensively at two positions.
I’d rather have Beltre than Sexson, but then I’d rather have A-Rod than Ramirez. I don’t understand why Manny’s various shenanigans aren’t a problem but A-Rod’s difficulties dealing with the NY media are a deal-breaker.
Half the city doesn’t loathe Manny Ramirez.
Also, 2 year commitment > 4 year commitment.
Mariner Minors is reporting that Felix Hernandez is also going to the AFL for some Winter Ball. Even if it’s limited activity, is this a wise thing to do considering how meticulous they were about his innings pitched this season?
He’s going down there to work out and stay in shape (for him, anyways). He won’t pitch in the AFL unless the team gets ravaged by injuries and has no other options, and even then, they probably won’t use him.
Is Beltre really viewed far and wide as a bust? His Triple Crown numbers look good, plus he’s a god on defense.
Yes, he’s viewed as a bust by most national writers.
But he isn’t actually a bust. That tells you all you need to know about most national writers.
How can they call him a bust? At least he hit almost .270 with 25 homeruns and 80+ RBIs. If he’s a bust then what was Cirillo when he was in Seattle?
But he isn’t actually a bust. That tells you all you need to know about most national writers.
Yep. I just had a conversation with someone last week where I argued that the position of national baseball writer has essentially been made obsolete through the rise of niche analysis sites like this one. There’s just no way that someone who is trying to cover all 30 teams is going to have anything close to the amount of knowledge on a specific topic as a site devoted to a narrow purpose will.
Dave, I appreciate you running down the ARod contract info so quickly.
Half the city doesn’t loathe Manny Ramirez.
Give him five months in a Mariners uniform booting balls in the outfield and begging out of games for questionable injuries, and then try to make that statement.
But seriously, Dave, wouldn’t you take ARod’s 2005-6 performance, with all the pressure he’s been under? Do you think it could actually get worse in Seattle?
speaking of the AFL, mlb.com has coverage, including some free audio of the games; Mesa vs Phoenix is streaming at the moment….
Give him five months in a Mariners uniform booting balls in the outfield and begging out of games for questionable injuries, and then try to make that statement.
My plan had Manny DH’ing. I’d tell him to burn his glove and not worry about ever playing the field.
But seriously, Dave, wouldn’t you take ARod’s 2005-6 performance, with all the pressure he’s been under? Do you think it could actually get worse in Seattle?
I’d take it in a vacuum, sure. But I’m not sure I’d take it for $16 million a year plus the talent it would take to acquire him in trade. I don’t think his performance is going to decline by much, and he’s likely going to rebound if he gets out of NY, but I’m still not sure Seattle is the best fit for him.
49. I wouldn’t take A-Rod. Just because he’s under pressure doesn’t give him an excuse. If you’re being paid 25,000,000 a year you should be able to handle pressure. Besides every Yankee is under pressure. Just ask Jeter who gets death threats and racist comments in his mail every day about pressure.
Dave,
So is your contention
Manny >> A-Rod (including contract years and such),
Players traded for A-Rod >> Players traded for Manny,
both, or neither?
51. You also had Manny batting third Dave, which is not a good place in the batting order for him.
Over the last four seasons, Alex Rodriguez has had 14 hits in 44 at-bats in Safeco Field, with 7 home runs, 15 RBI, 11 walks and 14 strikeouts.
#52,
I’m not trying to make any statement about what A-Rod “should” be able to do. I’m saying that his offensive performance over the last couple of years is worth the ~$16 mil per we’d be paying, and if anything he would rebound when out of the glare of NY.
I’m not trying to make a moral judgement here.
There’s just no way that someone who is trying to cover all 30 teams is going to have anything close to the amount of knowledge on a specific topic as a site devoted to a narrow purpose will.
This is why teams employ so many scouts, right? I’ve thought for a little while now that it would make sense for Baseball Prospectus (to pick just one national outlet) to have “beat analysts” that would be able to pay attention to the details of a few teams, rather than sitting back and missing so many important details on players.
So what does this say about Peter Gammons?
51. You also had Manny batting third Dave, which is not a good place in the batting order for him.
Well, that’s just not true.
Manny >> A-Rod (including contract years and such)
No.
Players traded for A-Rod >> Players traded for Manny,
Yes.
Basically, I think giving up less talent and taking a little more salary for less years, plus not having to deal with the whole Rodriguez-returns-to-Seattle stuff, is a better deal for the M’s than acquiring A-Rod for a stiff price of young talent.
I’m not completely against the idea of Alex Rodriguez, but I don’t think its a good fit for him, and I don’t see the Yankees being interested in the kind of offers people around here are dreaming of. I think there are better cost/benefit options out there for the M’s than Rodriguez.
That’s not to say Manny is better than A-Rod. A-Rod makes a lot more sense for the Angels than Manny does, for instance.
He’s bulked up the past year or two, and it’s hurt his mobility. He’s not the lean, limber kid he was in Seattle or even Texas. He’s carrying some weight now, and that has hampered his range.
Well, I’m glad that I wasn’t hallucinating. Do you think there’s any chance that if he switched teams someone might convince him to shed some weight and he’d get some of his defense back?
This is why teams employ so many scouts, right? I’ve thought for a little while now that it would make sense for Baseball Prospectus (to pick just one national outlet) to have “beat analysts” that would be able to pay attention to the details of a few teams, rather than sitting back and missing so many important details on players.
Similar concept, yes. But I have no idea why anyone would pay BP to read what their beat analyst has to say about the Mariners or Rangers or Blue Jays when there are so many exceptional blogs dedicated to those teams that do better anaylsis than anyone working for BP does (besides Nate Silver, probably).
So what does this say about Peter Gammons?
Gammons isn’t really an analysis guy. He rarely offers up essays on what teams should/shouldn’t do. He’s more of a reporter than an analyst, and as far as baseball reporters go, he’s the best alive.
Essentially, the guys who I’d consider national analysts right now are Rob Neyer, Keith Law, and Joe Sheehan. Aaron Gleeman is trying to join that group. And, for my money, none of them are really worth reading.
So what does this say about Peter Gammons?
I’d say someone like Gammons can be pretty useful because he’s so ridiculously well-connected. If a national analyst knows who to talk to, then he can be right a lot more than he’s wrong. But as we learned this trade deadline, no one’s as connected as Peter Gammons is.
Gleeman. Give me a break. If he wasn’t so obsessed with becoming a cult of his own personality, he might actually have something to say on occasion. I found his blog to be unreadable.
Dave, you are absolutely right about the national vs. local writers. It isn’t a matter of intelligence – I’m sure Rob Neyer, Ken Rosenthal, etc. are intelligent people, or at least moderately intelligent. It is just a matter of time. They have to think about 30 teams (well, they don’t think about ALL teams), instead of 1. It really means hardcore fans of a team really shouldn’t pay too much attention to the national guys because we’ll be pretty frustrated with them, especially when they are talking about your team.
I’ll also bet guys like Neyer, Rosenthal, etc. all started as local guys, got some good connections with locat teams, got some exposure on local TV or newspaper, moved up to ESPN/FOX and became the national guy. Now, they just don’t have the connections across the league and time to really learn what is happening everywhere at once.
I’ll read or watch some of them because I don’t have the time to find the “USS-insert team name.com” and find the focused studies and details. I understand the national guy isn’t going to be correct, but their articles can be taken with a teaspoon of salt. Mmmm … salt
By the way, could an off season project for the USSM staff include finding USSM – like sites for other teams? Some of the sportsblog nation sites are ok, but most of them suck-diddly-uck.
Similar concept, yes. But I have no idea why anyone would pay BP to read what their beat analyst has to say about the Mariners or Rangers or Blue Jays when there are so many exceptional blogs dedicated to those teams that do better anaylsis than anyone working for BP does (besides Nate Silver, probably).
I’ve continued to enjoy Keith Woolner’s work, though I suppose he rarely writes anymore, and Dan Fox’s stuff has been pretty good this season, too. But as for the other guys, yeah, not so hot.
I guess my idea really just boils down to some sort of “authorized” blogs, which wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense since those blogs already exist if someone’s willing to go find them. So I see your point here.
Essentially, the guys who I’d consider national analysts right now are Rob Neyer, Keith Law, and Joe Sheehan. Aaron Gleeman is trying to join that group. And, for my money, none of them are really worth reading.
Some of the stuff I’ve heard from Keith Law’s corner of the universe recently has been dreadfully awful.
By the way, could an off season project for the USSM staff include finding USSM – like sites for other teams? Some of the sportsblog nation sites are ok, but most of them suck-diddly-uck.
Suck-diddly-uck? Well, we know you read Jeff Sullivan’s stuff.
I could probably put this up next week. I already know of one pretty good to great site for most teams in baseball. Among the best are places like the Batters Box, the Newberg Report, and Dodger Thoughts, but there are a lot more.
I’ve continued to enjoy Keith Woolner’s work, though I suppose he rarely writes anymore, and Dan Fox’s stuff has been pretty good this season, too. But as for the other guys, yeah, not so hot.
Yea, Woolner’s stuff is terrific when he writes. And I love Dan Fox’s work, but it’s more ideological than analytical of a specific team or idea (which is great for me, because I love the ideological type articles). There’s some stuff at BP thats worth reading; the three we’ve mentioned and Maury Brown, specifically. And Goldman is a good writer.
But Sheehan is BP’s “analyst”, and he’s not very good at it.
I could probably put this up next week. I already know of one pretty good to great site for most teams in baseball. Among the best are places like the Batters Box, the Newberg Report, and Dodger Thoughts, but there are a lot more.
You can count me as someone who would be interested in that post. I know good places for a few teams, but it’d be nice to see recommendations for other teams.
Are the Hardball Times guys aiming for that all-encompassing national profile, or are they content to be first-rate niche guys?
Apart from Gleeman, that is.
Just about everything Dave has said on the A-Rod thing rings true to me, except that a deal to the M’s doesn’t make sense from either the team’s or A-Rod’s perspective. I’m with Jon – Seattle is the only place A-Rod has ever been truly loved, and while it may take some warming up, I think he would be loved again. He would also have the opportunity to ditch the smarmy, dishonest image he has – when asked about leaving for Texas, all he has to do is be honest:
“I said it wasn’t about the money because I assumed the teams that would be interested would be at least in the same neighborhood in money, and I could choose the situation that was best for me as a player. My assumption was wrong; I had no idea Tom Hicks would open the vault for me, and I would have been an idiot not to take that deal. I had nothing against Seattle, and still don’t. I loved my time here, would have strongly considered re-signing here after 2000 if I hadn’t been gratuitously given about 75 million reasons not to, and I’m looking forward to finishing my career here.”
I don’t think most people would have any problem with that, and it would go a long way towards re-making his reputation for honesty.
As for why the Yankees would want Beltre: I don’t think they would. Granted, it’s SSST, but Beltre hasn’t hit particularly well in Yankee Stadium, and you’d have to think someone would offer a player of Beltre’s caliber in order to get A-Rod (and I agree with whomever it was who said they thought pitching would be the preferred return). However, I won’t discount the Yankees’ desire to be better defensively at 3B, and they don’t need to worry particularly about cost or the lost offense, in that line-up. I’m sure they would also like to get younger – they are damn old, and getting older.
Alex defenisvely doesn’t bother me too much at 3B here, either. YuBet will allow him to play closer to the line than he could in NY, and I think some of his errant throwing problems are aberrant. If they aren’t, you can always trade Richie and convert Alex to 1B, or make him a left fielder. I’m pretty sure he has enough athletic talent to play either of those positions well (given a winter and ST to convert, preferably). If all else fails, we still need a DH.
If Manny is a good idea (and it is), at least considering A-Rod is also a good idea. Maybe Beltre alone won’t get it done, but it is worth exploring what would.
We just got a Nigerian 419 email to the USSM address, using the full subject line so it came up labelled as an invite for me to process. Heh.
Thank you.
I do like Jeff’s work, but I’ve been a Simpson’s fan since it first came out. I actually remember where I was when the original Christmas episode came out in the winter of 1989. I think I could get a PhD in Simpsonsology, but Evergreen only lets you get fake bachelor’s degrees.
Concerning Matsuzaka, so when does the bloodletting begin? I’ve bought an Ms jersey this season so I’ve done my part….
I’m wondering how the Angels would swing an Arod deal with the Yankees. I know theyre loaded in the farm but I’m just not seeing something like a Santana/Aybar for Arod deal flipping George’s trigger….I mean Aybar…he’s like young and Santana is like cheap (thats really his greatest attribute) and neither of those things have ever been a priority in the Bronx.
#60. That’s like asking Barry… No, I won’t and should go there.
——————————–
In addition to Dave’s answers in #23 & #42 and Jon Wells’ in #24, here’s more on ARod and his humongous salary from an “unofficial MLB” site:
“…he can void deal after 2007, 2008 or 2009 – + he has a guaranteed salary increase for 2009 and 2010 by the higher of the following: 5M or 1M greater than average annual value of the position player w/ highest annual average salary (another site reads this way for this clause: “may opt out after 2007 unless he gets an $8M/year raise or $1M more than MLB’s highest-paid player”)
5M of 2001 salary is deferred and 4M each year of 2002, 2005, 2006, and 2007 salaries deferred – + 3M of 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009 and 2010 salaries deferred at 1.75% interest and paid each June 15 between 2016-25 – + the 36M in deferred money became an assignment bonus after trade to the NYY from TEX, which is paid: 5M + interest in 2016, 4M + interest in 2017 and 3M + interest in both 2018 and 2019, then 4M + interest in 2020, 2021 and 2022, and then finally 3M + interest in 2023, 2024, and 2025 – + Texas pays a total of 67M of his salaries from 2004 to 10: 3M in 2004, 6M in both 2005 and 2006, 7M in 2007, 8M in 2008, 7M in 2009 and 6M in 2010 – + Yankees defer 1M of his 2004 to 2007 salaries and make them payable on Jan. 15 2011 at 0% interest – + the deal includes a complete NO-TRADE clause – + hotel suite on road and right to host his personal webpage on yankees.mlb.com”
Dave, I’m not saying that third is not a good spot for him I’m just saying that according to his career situational splits I’d much having have him batting 4th.
#71: I wasn’t in Seattle at the time but I just don’t understand how people can begrudge Arod leaving for a contract that guaranteed him enough jack to buy a small south american country…….
I bet there isn’t a single AROD hater who wouldn’t have done the same thing….
Hickey is insane. The FO doesn’t want A-Rod back, from what I’ve read.
#73 An Evergreen BA is only as fake as you want it to be. I’ve seen many people do grad work as undergrads at TESC. I’ve also met people who did NOTHING for an TESC BA.
Gammons isn’t really an analysis guy. He rarely offers up essays on what teams should/shouldn’t do. He’s more of a reporter than an analyst, and as far as baseball reporters go, he’s the best alive.
He’s the last of them, sadly. I’m surprised at how many stories I’ve read where the reporter’s fact-checking was somewhere between Wikipedia and non-existent. They don’t work the phones. They don’t know the guys. Gammons, OTOH, is right 90% of the time because he has two sources behind 90% of what comes out of his mouth.
Essentially, the guys who I’d consider national analysts right now are Rob Neyer, Keith Law, and Joe Sheehan. Aaron Gleeman is trying to join that group. And, for my money, none of them are really worth reading.
I think there’s still room for a single national analyst if they’re willing to think more like a reporter and less like a rambling talking head. Television has hurt the situation by moving former players out of their color roles and into seats on Baseball Tonight and whatever that lead-in show is on Fox. They’re just not the sharpest knives in the drawer, and they have none of the journalism experience needed for a news show.
But I think, out there, somewhere, is a kid who can think nationally and blog about it effectively. Either that, or he/she is willing to find a way to collect all the good baseball blogging into a MetaFilter like tool. Not SportsFilter, mind you. More like Digg for sports. With a single RSS feed.
Someone in an e-mail suggested the Yanks offer Jeter to the Twins for Johan. I think I got all the Diet Coke off my monitor.
Although the New York Yankees are unlikely to trade Alex Rodriguez to the Seattle Mariners for Richie Sexson and Adrian Beltre — as neither the Yankees front office, the M’s front office, nor Rodriguez would probably agree to such a deal — it would, perhaps, be beneficial to everyone involved in the transaction.
The following is a detailed analysis of Alex Rodriguez’s contract:
http://tinyurl.com/create.php
As it is, though, I think that Rodriguez will be with the Yankees next season.
With regards to Manny Ramierez, however, the Anahiem Angels could conceivably acquire him from the Boston Red Sox for the duo of Ervin Santana and Juan Rivera.
For the Angels, Ramierez would provide power on offense as the designated hitter in lieu of Tim Salmon. For the Red Sox, Santana would bolster the starting rotation and Rivera would more than adequately replace Trot Nixon in right field.
All in all, it would be a good deal for both teams.
I’ve never seen any legitimate source citing the weird “they only pay NY”
I keep hearing this rumor but don’t know how it could possibly be correct. Essentially it would mean the Yankees pay Rodriguez $16M/year (I realize it’s not the same every year, but to keep it simple) UNLESS they trade him, then they owe $25M. That essentially means there’s a $9M/year penalty on the Yankees for trading A-Rod and I can’t see that they’d agree to that.
What may well be true is Texas’s obligation is only to the Yankees — not to A-Rod — and they’d be paying the Yankees even if they traded A-Rod. But all that means is the Yankees would agree to pass along that compensation. But really, my head spins when I read the details on how the contract is paid and the money is deferred.
So I was clearly wrong in wondering whether Seibu’s meanness would be greater than their greed (and common sense – at least that left-handed compliment is dur them) in refusing to post Matsuzaka, since the huge amount the posting fee will be will certainly be accepted.
I do so hope my other feeling, that he was not going to play for the Yankees, was not in error as well. I had even less confidence in that as a prediction.
BTW, does anyne else out there use the entirely silly notion of “How the players look in a uniform” to guess their success on any given team? A-Rod in a Mariners uniform looked good, but he looked better as a Ranger (I hate the Rangers!) and looks Halloween-weird in Yankee pins. H. Matsui looks great in them, but he’d look terrible in a Seattle uniform. I had the unfortunately correct feeling that a Mets outfit would kill Kazuo M., while he looks pretty good as a Rockie. Hasegawa looked god as an Angel AND a Mariner.
Like I said, nonsense. Still Daisuke in Mariners clothing seems exactly right, while a Yankees jersey seems a poor match (though not the worst) – the irrational reason I cannot see him signing with NYA.
Could we have a discussion on these sorts of superstitious beliefs sometime? Every fan has them, at least as entertainment, don’t they?
The arguements for and against A Rod here are rational, the decision to go after him may not be. Bavasi no longer has the time to develop a cold, if he does not assemble a winner (undefined) next year, he is out. Faced with that, I can see him throwing Morrow and others at NY to get A Rod’s bat. Screw the defense, the boy can still hit and that’s what they’ll see.
#77 – I know Evergreen has some good degrees and you can get a great education there. I applied to go there as my safety-safety school, but Brandeis basically paid me to go there, so off I went. Trust me, some of the degrees there were worthless as were some of the Ivy league degrees from people I’ve met along the way. A degree is only what you put into it and the name of the school is what other people think of it when they see it on paper.
I’ll venture a guess you’ve never been loathed and abused on your job wherever you go, including your home base.
That sounds good and righteous, but it’s the 25,000,000 that creates the pressure.
Anyway, if 25,000,000 a year enabled him to ignore the pressure and just give a big who-cares to all his critics, then he’d just be playing for the money, wouldn’t he? I thought that was supposed to be a bad thing. I understand that for the A-Rod haters it’s all about the money, but to be consistent shouldn’t you at least pretend it isn’t? I’d be more sympathetic if it were phrased, oh, “with talent like that he ought to be able to handle the pressure,” or “with teammates like that”, etc. I think Dave’s right: he’s not Barry Bonds, he cares what everyone thinks, and 25,000,000 doesn’t save his psyche.
What??
84. Every day in his “fan mail” Jeter who is biracial gets racist comments and death threats before the game saying people will kill him if he doesn’t do well. Now that’s pressure.
[long link, RTFM]
Jeter gets death threats every day? Where can I read about this?
88. Sorry Derek I read about it a while ago and don’t remember where. The only way I remember the article is because it’s one of those things that sticks in my mind.
Corco can relate to this … he gets attacked for his whiteness every day.
Every day I doubt, but he has received race-related death threats:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9490572/
Coach Owens, you appear to be saying that Jeter plays under more pressure than A-Rod, and that since “all the Yankees play under pressure” A-Rod’s pressure isn’t anything out of the ordinary. Is that what you’re saying? I just want to be sure I’m not misunderstanding you.
ONE death threat. Not threats, threat. Not every day.
Jeter is in fact absolutely worshipped in New York. Probably 3/4 of all Yankees fans believe that he is the best player by far in the major leagues.
91. That’s exactly what I’m saying. When I say “all the Yankees play under pressure” I mean all of them. Because if they have a couple of less than great years there’s a good chance Steinbrenner will get rid of them even if they are Alex Rodriguez or Derek Jeter. Also did you know (based on 550 AB) that Alex makes about 45,454 dollars an At Bat a year? Heck, for that money I won’t care how much they hated me.
FWIW A-Rod won’t be traded according to Cashman.
MSNBC article
92. He definitely has gotten more than one. I bet if you look through the NY Times since Jeter became a superstar that you’ll find more than one reporting of death threats.
I’m also sorry the Yankeese have finally gotten over their need for hysterical knee-jerk postseason overcorrections. It was high Shakespearean comedy in the day.
LOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUU!!! is doing the telecast. Yay! If he was on our broadcast team we’d win 25 more games per season.
FWIW, re: the stress of playing in NY [warning! pop-psychology analysis ahead!]
Jeter deals with it as someone with a reputedly sanguine personality, and a secure upbringing by two very involved and stable parents. Rodriguez has a less secure sense of self, what has been described charitably as a need to please, and comes from a home with no father, and both a working mother & older siblings. Not that a fractured home life can’t produce a secure & calm person (just look at Edgar) but it seems to have had a big effect on how Alex deals with life.
hey look! it’s birthday boy Placido Polanco, thriled to be sharing his big day with Jeff!
#96: So what explains David J. Corcoran?
I personally do not buy the argument of ‘everyone with a brain would have done what Alex did” when he left Seattle. I don’t buy it now and I did not buy it in 2000. Some things money cannot buy, and Alex if finding all about those things plying his trade in New York. It’s accepted that he’s dying to be liked, he’s all about his numbers, has aspirations to the HOF. There are numerous comments in this thread, and lots of things you can see and read with your own two eyes, that suggest strongly that his contract is a direct impediment to his non-monetary objectives, not to mention his mental well-being.
Alex was being offered the keys to the City by the Mariners. He could have been the Man for as long as he wanted. Every guy would want to be him and every woman would want to be with him and all that crap. Also, he could have afforded to live pretty well on the salary.
I feel badly for him, and I’d take him back, but he’s getting exactly what he deserves right now.
I personally do not buy the argument of ‘everyone with a brain would have done what Alex did” when he left Seattle. I don’t buy it now and I did not buy it in 2000.
I certainly do.
Given what the two teams offered, there were cases to be made for both of them. A pay difference of 25% is RATIONALLY a deciding factor.
Sorry, but that’s just sour grapes and he certainly does NOT deserve all the abuse.
100 – so EVERY reasonable person would rather be Alex now instead of a slightly less wealthy yet still fabulously wealthy Alex universally beloved in his chosen city and boo’d on the road only because opposing fans know you’re going to crush their hopes at some point during that evening’s event?
Certainly some reasonable people would, and I don’t make the case that they don’t have a strong argument. But not me, and not all. I believe that’s why alot of folks in Seattle don’t like him, and not all of them are being stupid about it.
In other Mariner news Tom Newberg has resigned as assistant trainer. To replace him the Mariners have named Rob Nodine new assistant trainer.
What always bothered me (and still does)is all his talk about how he’d stay if the Mariners fielded a competitive team, and then jumping. Where if he’d been upfront that he’d be “looking at the different offers” they might have gotten something for him in trade–especially as they were under considerably more financial constraints at that point than now. I think that’s what made so many people furious and still does–where I don’t know any fan that is angry at Randy Johnson or Ken Griffey, both of whom allowed the Mariners to get something in return
Derek Jeter may have gotten a racist death threat or two in his career, but Captain Dreamboat is adored in New York City and by the American media in general.
There are some guys (cough, Tim McCarver) who seem to have a case of unrequited Man-Love for the Captain.
I know of many fans who are upset at Griffey Jr. and Johnson.
No, not as many, but we should be realistic.
The amazing thing about this thread is that it was post 102 before Griffey’s name appeared. And even then it wasn’t a “bring back Griffey” post.
#99: I didn’t imply *everyone with a brain* would’ve done what Alex did-I implied EVERYONE would’ve…..
The next closest offer was rumored to be at least $50M less…. thats 5,000,000,000 pennies…. which needless to say fills ALOT of piggy banks….
I remember reading a preseason article about A-Rod gaining weight during the offseason presumably because he wanted to keep his strength throughout the regular season and into the postseason. Since he figured he didn’t need as much range at third, he thought the extra weight wouldn’t really hurt him much. Unfortunately for him, it looked it did. His range wasn’t as good, nor was his footwork and some of his throwing problems came from not setting his feet properly. Some of his other throwing errors just came from bad throwing mechanics. Unless his body has, in fact, lost a lot of its juice at his still young age, I think it’s possible he could still be a fine shortstop after he loses some weight.
I just want to say that I find it extremely suspect that English-language news sites are saying Matsuzaka WILL be posted, whereas Japanese-language news sites are saying “Ohta says he’s going to talk with Matsuzaka at some point soon and make a decision about whether or not to post him”.
I feel like someone’s gotten some wires crossed or mistranslated somewhere.
Or Boras is trying to leverage the decision.
Shh . . . you’re not supposed to rain on the Matsuzaka parade. He will be posted, he will put up an ERA under 3, and he won’t win the Rookie of the Year because sportswriters don’t think Japanese imports are really rookies. It’s all been decided already.
I feel like someone’s gotten some wires crossed or mistranslated somewhere
oh, like that would ever happen between here and Japan….
re #108
Well, if ESPN, the Worldwide Leader in Sports, and the Anglophone media print something, it must be true, shouldn’t it? I mean they did nail that “Terrell Owens Tried to Commit Suicide” story … or not.
Manny was asked a couple of days ago about a potentential Angels trade. I’m paraphrasing, but he said “No, I only want to go to the National League.”
Might just be Manny Being Manny, who knows?
Manny only wants to go to the National League? Does that mean Dunn’s going to Boston?
Before trading him, maybe Boston should try the irrevocable waivers route, again.
Couldn’t his (much-publicized) defensive woes be partially attributed to A-Rod’s mental state during this year?
This reasoning lead to the funniest commentary I’ve heard so far this postseason. After Marcus Thames hit that broken bat single over A-Rod, the commentary went:
“Thames’s bat, like A-Rod’s psyche, lies shattered out there by third base.”
Arod probably had the union breathing down his neck to take the larger of the offers as well. It would look bad for the big star to take less to stay with the team that brought him up, it could depress dollars in the future for others.
Random note, I loved the article Caple wrote about trading Jeter. Point #5 in particular is particularly groovy.
http://tinyurl.com/ggy6o
huh. Thiel thinks that the Ms should have moved away from the high-priced free agents & kept their draft picks years ago…
He thinks that now. Did he think that years ago?
Neither position makes sense as a universal axiom. The pitfalls are giving away draft picks to sign lousy players (or players who had compensation-free equivalents).
Thiel didn’t think that years ago, but it fits with the hindsight that A-Rod should have known the most rediculous contract offer ever was going to cost him so much more and he should’ve known?.?.?
If A-rod left the Mariners because he thought they had little chance to contend, how come 2 months later he said that the Mariners would win 115 games in his absence, and Ichiro would hit .350. He knew what this team was capable of, but 1/4 again the overall money lured him away…
But it wasn’t 25% more because Seattle’s offer according to Lincoln was 5yrs (According to A-Rod it was only 3 years) and ‘would make him the highest paid player’. Lets break that down, since exact figures weren’t made available:
At that time it was either overall contract or per year that Lincoln was speaking of. Texas’ offer was exactly double the previous record for a sports contract: a six-year, $126 million agreement in October 1997 between Kevin Garnett and the Minnesota Timberwolves. The previous high for a baseball player was set just days before A-Rods signing: an eight-year, $121 million contract between left-hander Mike Hampton and the Colorado Rockies. Lincoln, however, may have been speaking of an offer made before that. Until then, baseball’s largest deal had been a nine-year, $116.5 million contract agreed to by Ken Griffey Jr. and the Cincinnati Reds at the time of the trade. If Lincoln was talking about overall contract the M’s offer must have been 5/116.5+ (Griffey’s contract seems the obvious benchmark)which at a minimum was worth 23.3+ million a year. The M’s probably didn’t offer that much a year. If I knew for sure that the M’s offerred this much I would be upset about A-Rod leaving. The fact that it seems the M’s could have saved face by making numbers like this public is reason to beleive they didn’t go this high. They never released any figure for how much they offered.
When it comes to Avg. salary A-Rod fell short of the highest average salary in sports. Los Angeles Lakers center Shaquille O’Neal averaged $29.5 million in an three-year, $88.5 million extension that started with the 2003-04 season. Michael Jordan made about $33 million in 1997-98, his final season in the NBA. The highest avg. salary on a baseball contract was Brown’s $15 million. According to this the M’s offerred 5/75+ (15m avg+) which falls way short of 252. Even assuming the M’s went to a $20 million average that’s 5/$100 million. That figure would mean he got a 252% pay increase to move to texas (overall guaranteed money). Give me a 252% pay increase and I’ll move anywhere. Twice the guaranteed length. 3 opportunities to opt out. I’d give it a try too.
Lastly if A-Rod’s claim that the M’s only offered 3 years I see plenty more reason to be upset at the M’s.
Re:Mariners acquiring A-Rod. I think the most opportunity for the M’s to get involved in a trade for A-Rod is as a 3rd party. Like; Mariners trade Beltre, receive prospects…Yankees trade A-Rod, receive Beltre + prospects…Padres trade prospects (to both NY and SEA), receive A-Rod.
I hope that trade doesn’t happen unless some other way to cover 3B is discovered before then.
RE: Gillick. I thought everyone knew that Gillick was Piniella’s GM. He was the one who would supply Piniella with the veterans he wanted at all costs. We were finally going to get to see what it was that Piniella envisioned. It was at least nearly as much Piniella’s fault that the cupboards went bare. Anyone who can blame Gillick and want to bring back Lou seems very clueless to me. They are perfectly suited to being together as Yankees GM/Manager.
Alex didn’t have a lot of ties to Seattle other than the fact that he was drafted by the team. He was extremely well loved at the time. When someone offers you a quarter of a billion dollars guranteed you take that deal.
Especially when you take in account how old he was when that deal was made. I hold no grudges towards a 20 year old securing the future of the next couple of generations with one signature.
And when I say 20 year old I mean some on in their twenties… not literally 20 years old
Lincoln, however, may have been speaking of an offer made before that.
in ‘99 the Ms offered Alex 8/$117.5M plus a $16M bonus
I can’t see how anyone can get mad at Rodriguez for signing the $252 million – like they would say no. If he handles things correctly, all of his offspring for eternity or near-eternity will never have to work, have the opportunity to get great educations, live the life of luxury, etc.
I also can’t see why Red Sox fans boo him other than the fact he is a Yankee. He offered to REDUCE the total $ of his contract to play there, but the union wouldn’t let him. Just another reason among a million to hate the Red Sox fans. After living in New England for almost 10 years, Red Sox fans are about a million times worse than Yankess fans.
What? How is $25M/year substantially different to $20M/year?
After you’re making tens of millions of dollars per season of baseball, five here and there isn’t going to massively impact your lifestyle.
I would take $20M to play for the Mariners over $25M for the Yankees, were I somehow given the gift of being a baseball superstar.
What? How is $25M/year substantially different to $20M/year?
By about $5 million a year (20% at least).
For a stats-related board, that’s not a hard question to answer…
Well at least we’ll never have to see Cruceta start again. (probably) He’s been claimed of waivers by the Rangers.
#124 But thats because you are a Seattle fan.
124…When the guaranteed contract is twice as long at 25 million a year and you’re choosing to play for the Rangers not the Yankees.
5*20=100
10*25.2=252
I see a HUGE difference
And Texas seemed like a better place to continue hitting your way to the HOF
Texas is a might closer to where he grew up and has a stronger Hispanic community. I don’t think it’s out of line for A-Rod to have considered that.
Not to mention at the time their owner wanted to buy a championship so I’m sure he saw glory in his future.
The downside was learning a new organization at $150 million extra in a better hitters park I think it seemed worth dealing with.
#125: I had hoped that people would answer that question on a deeper level than ‘20%’, really.
#125: I had hoped that people would answer that question on a deeper level than ‘20%’, really.
And I hoped that people would ask questions on a deeper level than rank jealousy.
It was not a particularly perceptive criticism; all things being equal, a pay differential of 20% is significant. You MUST argue that there are things that overcome that pay differential–and you simply didn’t do that. What? You thought that fans in Texas WOULDN’T love him if he brought them a winner?
And you certainly have been getting much deeper answers, both before and after your comment…..
#139: ‘Rank jealousy’? Hardly. I never followed the Mariners when A-Rod was part of the team – so why would I be jealous? I’m not particularly envious of people with money and as a Brit I have no real need for baseball skills. It’s not as though Cambridge is a hotbed for scouts.
Yeah, all things are equal. Right. You could pay me minimum wage, and I’d find a 20% payrise insignificant. You can pay me 500K/year, and I wouldn’t much care if I got that extra 20% or not. If it doesn’t push you into another economic bracket, it means that essentially nothing changes in your lifestyle, especially at higher ends. At that point, you’re ridiculously rich no matter how you slice it.
But hey, that was apparently addressed both before and after my comment. I must figure out a way to unhide those sneaky comments that I apparently cannot read.
And #132, the difference in years is also a matter of insurance: it’s not as though Alex wouldn’t get that money as a free agent after this year anyway unless he’d exploded or something in between now and 2001.
Well, I see you’re impervious to comments. Au revoir.
I recall saying it was 252% not 20% pay increase (which is however incorrect, it’s 152% increase)…and even if you’re just including the equal time 5/100 which, to my knowledge, has never even been corroborated as having been offered by the M’s to 5/125 is a 25% increase, based upon speculation of what the M’s might have offered. Again A-rod claimed that the M’s only offerred 3 years which even at the same $20 million assumption would mean he took a 320% pay increase over the life of the contract, again while moving from a pitcher-friendly park to a hitter-friendly park. In retrospect the comparison is more unbalanced because 25 million is far beyond what people are getting now and likely more than he would have gotten as a FA after his first 5 years (or even 3). At the time of the signing A-rod was loved throughout baseball and I’m not sure if anyone had an inkling that public backlash would be so severe for someone agreeing to accept a rediculous contract. No one can legitimately claim that it was A-Rods fault Hicks put the offer out. A-rod said that the offer from texas was about 20million a year and suddenly jumped to 25. Had A-rod gotten injured in 2001 severely enough to haveto retire the difference remains at least double (152%-320% more). The fact that he was gauranteed money for 10 years, whether playing or not, is a larger part of the rediculous value of the contract than the $5million a year speculated difference over the five years that may have been offered by the M’s.