Kenny Rogers cheating with pine tar
Yesterday, Kenny Rogers was caught with a brown substance on his pitching hand, across the heel of the palm. After the first inning, according to Tony LaRussa, at least two of the five Cardinal hitters told him they’d seen the ball doing strange things, and LaRussa complained to the umpires, who talked to Rogers, Tigers manager Leyland, umpire supervisor Palermo, and when Rogers went back out for the second, his hand was clean.
I spent the last couple of years writing “The Cheater’s Guide to Baseball” (pre-order now! $11!), so you can imagine my glee.
After the game, Rogers claimed that it was a clump of dirt he hadn’t noticed. This is a transparent lie. We would have to believe that he’s the only pitcher not concerned and meticulous about the condition of his pitching hand, and that he also didn’t notice at any time during the inning that there was dirt getting on the ball when he turned it in his hand to grip it.
Asked how he could have not noticed it, Rogers said “”It was dirt and rosin put together. That’s what happens when you rub it up. … I just went and wiped if off. I didn’t think it was an issue. After the first inning, it was fine. I felt I was pretty comfortable after that.””
Uh huh.
It’s pine tar. You’ve seen pine tar, it’s the sticky brown stuff hitters use on their bats, which you’ve also seen smeared on their helmets, batting gloves, and uniforms. Steve Palermo, the umpire supervisor, said the umps saw dirt, but that there was no inspection.
This is not the first time pine tar use by a pitcher in a playoff game has been controversial, either. Just in 1988, Dodger pitcher Jay Howell was caught with pine tar on his glove in the 8th inning of NLCS Game 3 on October 8th, facing the Mets, and was ejected after facing only one batter. The National League suspended him for three days.
Pine tar’s illegal. This is why you can’t admit you had pine tar on your hand. So the question “was he cheating?” is clearly yes. There have been many pitchers tossed out of games for having pine tar on their person.
But use of pine tar by pitchers is more of a long-tolerated practice, as long as they’re using it to get a better grip on the ball. When Brendan Donnelly was ejected in 2005 for using pine tar, he said
“I don’t have anything to apologize for. Pine tar is used the same way resin is used. People think you’re loading up the ball, but it keeps your fingers dry. I’m not trying to cheat or doctor the ball. Just to get a grip. Nothing more, nothing less.â€
Todd Jones, who is now Rogers’ teammate, wrote after Donnely’s ejection that he’d used pine tar every time he pitched at Coors Field because it the ball was so slippery there.
The hitters’ view is surprisingly lenient. In my book, Craig Counsell said in an interview that
“They’ll come up with anything if they think they can get a better grip on the baseball. You’ll see the bill of their hat is black, the rest of the hat’s red, and you’re saying to yourself ‘that’s not sweat.’ If something is done just to get a better grip on the baseball, that’s no big deal to me. But if they’re loading the ball up with saliva or whatever, and their pitches don’t do what normal pitches do, then you start to wonder.â€
If Rogers was only using it to get a better grip in what were clearly difficult conditions to pitch in, this might be nit-picky. But LaRussa said his hitters complained of unusual movement. How would that have worked?
Any foreign substance on the ball affects its flight. A strategic scratch or artifically smooth surface (say, by coating the leather with Vaseline) can make the ball move a great deal. If you scuff a ball on the side and throw a normal fastball, the ball will move away from the scuffed side as it approaches the batter. This is the complaint of the Cardinal hitters: that Rogers was putting enough pine tar on the ball that it was moving more than it should have given a natural delivery.
Moreover, the word is that he’s been doing something to the pitches all year while at home. Thankfully, Nate Silver wrote a nice article analyzing the possibility at SI.
His conclusion is that Rogers has enjoyed a slight, but noticeable, advantage while at home that isn’t enough to say he’s doing anything, but is certainly enough to make you suspicious.
I’ll argue the con side: if Rogers is doctoring balls, he can do it using clear substances, and he can better conceal them, or if he’s scuffing or trying to create more air resistance on one side by loading it with tar, there are a lot better, sneakier ways to go about this (there’s a huge section on this in the book, by the way). Running around with a big smear of pine tar on his hand is just asking to be caught.
The most likely explanation here is that Rogers was using pine tar to get a better grip on the ball in the poor conditions, and went without (or went to something else) after the umpires told him to clean it off. That’s not a huge deal, and certainly not enough to make his performance less impressive.
(Also, if you find this kind of thing interesting – what the difference between minor rule-breaking and full-on cheating is, the history of ball doctoring and how to do it, you should buy the book, The Cheater’s Guide to Baseball” because it’s all about this stuff)
Comments
50 Responses to “Kenny Rogers cheating with pine tar”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
How about: Rogers uses the pine tar as a form of misdirection. By allowing the umps to catch him with the pine tar (and knowing how tolerated it is, there’s not a lot of risk there), he gets them to miss the really effectively illegal trick he’s using.
Awesome thread.
I think i’ll buy two copies of your book…. one for the den and one for work…
Maybe even a third (one for the car)…. 🙂
Another interesting, if entirely speculative, factoid is that Kenny Rogers wears a batting practice cap during real games. The underside of the BP bill is black, making it easier to store a dab of whichever dark substance he’d like, while the gray underside of a normal Tigers cap would be a bit more conspicuous. It’s far from damning, but an interesting aside nonetheless.
And yes, I read Uni Watch. Everyone needs a guilty pleasure.
Does Derek have a book coming out?
Derek writes?
FWIW, Moyer (not admitting that any pitcher might stoop to such a heinous thing!) did point out that pine tar would help your grip on a ball in cold weather, esp. those slippery ones they have now, the ones that are not mudded up like they were back in the Olden Days. If you then had to throw said slippery object towards a batter… why, then you might get tossed for throwing at a batter if your grip slipped.
Per various reference sources, Howell _was_ in fact ejected from the NLCS game, and was also given a suspension of three games (later limited to two games). This is what makes the reaction to Rogers by the umpires unclear — if there is a precedent, why wasn’t it applied?
You’re right, I just looked it up on Retrosheet. I’ve fixed that.
It’s an interesting question. Various articles today attribute this to LaRussa not asking for an inspection, but umpires don’t require a expliit request to inspect, and certainly don’t require one when they’ve noticed something on the hand, as Palermo’s comment seems to indicate.
It would seem like the umpires didn’t see any strange movement on Rogers’ pitches and weren’t going to do anything unless asked.
Not sure how interesting this is to anyone else, but I’m just curious about something you said. With the caveats that I know very little about 1) how to pitch or 2) aerodynamics, it would seem to me that the scuff (or Vaseline or pine tar or spit) would increase drag on its side of the ball and cause the ball to break toward the marked side. Is this right, or am I missing something?
Nope.
What happens is that the side with the scuff has comparitively more air pressure on it, and the ball moves towards the low pressure side – so away from the scuff.
If you use a substance like Vaseline that makes the ball artifically smooth, that decreases air pressure and it dives towards the grease. Traditionally, though, any greasy substance is used to lessen the grip to produce an entirely different effect.
There’s a whole explanation of this, with diagrams, in the book, which you should buy. Hee hee.
from La Russa, on not calling Rogers out:
“It’s not the way we want to win.”
man, I wish there was a way to get those proofs to the various colunists & writers– just think, they could all have mentioned in those articles and columns … “as Derek Zumsteg, author of The Cheater’s Guide to Baseball (just $11.16 at Amazon) says … “
Wait — this is what your book’s about? Here I thought it was for philandering spouses, so they’d know enough to give passable explanations if they were ever asked about where they were for 3+ hours on so many evenings… (the other possibility, of course, was that “baseball” was some kind of euphemism for something I’m not outré enough to know the slang for)
#12– Wait — this is what your book’s about? Here I thought it was for philandering spouses, so they’d know enough to give passable explanations if they were ever asked about where they were for 3+ hours on so many evenings
nope, that one is A guide for the Married Man…
I saw a clip on espn.com today with Peter Gammons saying without caveat (in passing, though) that Rogers was using pine tar. Some of his other comments were interesting, too, like about how the umpires didn’t want to change the complexion of the game by forcing the Tigers to go to their bullpen in the first inning. Gammons noted that the Cardinals didn’t object much because they too have pitchers that are using substances to help their grip on the ball. (Although they are apparently more discreet.)
I bet Tony didn’t call it because many pitchers probably do it, and it’d be the equivalent of trying to bust the other team on the “vicinity” BS used on turning double plays. (how many times are they -actually- on the bag, or even close? 50%?)
Yeah it’s against the rules, and Kenny’s a schmuck for being so blatant, but I can see how Tony didn’t want to win by calling out the Tigers on something that is probably usually dealt with by looking the other way.
If he did call out Kenny, in guy-speak, it would be the equivalent of being the proverbial “bitch.”
FWIW, I heard an interview with Pedro Gomez last night, where he mentioned that he overheard a number of Cardinal’s players saying that they didn’t know any pitcher that wouldn’t use pine tar on a night like last night, and that they didn’t think it was a big deal.
What is this book you are talking about?
If he did call out Kenny, in guy-speak, it would be the equivalent of being the proverbial “bitch.â€
Right. Tony’s got an obligation to keep Mr. Rogers from making him look like a fool by being blatant about it, but he doesn’t need to completely call Rogers on it to accomplish that. And it’s sort of protecting his own players (the pitchers anyway) in a weird sort of way.
Another interesting, if entirely speculative, factoid is that Kenny Rogers wears a batting practice cap during real games. The underside of the BP bill is black, making it easier to store a dab of whichever dark substance he’d like, while the gray underside of a normal Tigers cap would be a bit more conspicuous.
I am certain that this is against the rules, as the entire team must have the same caps. Can anyone confirm this?
Interesting ‘editorial’. Not much proof in it besides ‘uh huh…its pine tar.’ But talking about this does allow for another plug of why the post was really written. /wink
Pablo – Technically, that is correct. However, it’s one of those rules that really doesn’t get enforced. Rule 1.11 (a) states:
(1) All players on a team shall wear uniforms identical in color, trim and style, and all players uniforms shall include minimal six-inch numbers on their backs. (2) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players on a team. Any player other than the pitcher may have numbers , letters, insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt. (3) No player whose uniform does not conform to that of his teammates shall be permitted to participate in a game.
So, if the Cardinals wanted to get Rogers kicked out for wearing a batting practice hat, the Tigers could get Jim Edmonds kicked out for wearing a two-tone windbreaker under his jersey…
#15: I bet Tony didn’t call it because many pitchers probably do it, and it’d be the equivalent of trying to bust the other team on the “vicinity†BS used on turning double plays.
I can top that. Tony didn’t call Rogers on it because in the 1980’s, Tony had the biggest juicers in the game winning pennants for him in Oakland (one of whom was, by that player’s own admission, injecting steroids in LaRussa’s clubhouse). And that player has since claimed that LaRussa tolerated it.
So if he called out Rogers, he would have been inviting Jose Canseco to interrupt the World Series and renew a national conversation about cheating in baseball. While that may be good news a certain author of an upcoming book, it would be very bad news for Tony LaRussa, Baseball Geniusâ„¢. So, no harm, no foul, as far as Tony’s concerned.
I have a long spiel about LaRussa’s history of managing steroid users and its effect on baseball in the book, including speculation on some interesting stuff.
Kenny Rogers Roasters: It’s the tar that makes him good!
Evan might be onto something in comment #1.
Congratulations, Derek. I think you oughta buy Kenny Rogers dinner for all this free and well-timed publicity for cheating in baseball. Or if you find him personally too distasteful, perhaps he’d enjoy a signed copy.
Looking forward to the book.
Wait a minute. Did you already buy him dinner? Hee hee.
DMZ–I sell used and collectible books through Amazon. I note that your sales rank is about 110,000, with a prepublication date of April 2, 2007. That’s a good ranking, prepublication, for a non-Harry Potter, non-get-rich-quick, non how to have sex pronto sort of book.
I’ve seen books ranked as high as 4,800,000 or so, though there’s little economic difference between that and 2,000,000–both numbers translate to about one or less than one sale a year.
Looking at your book entry online at Amazon, I note that the content isn’t described. I think, particularly given the Rogers tempest in a teapot, that some content description is warranted and might prove useful.
I also believe that the author/publisher can insert this material into a descriptive field. I know that when I insert a book onto Amazon that hasn’t been there before, I have an option of describing the book in more detail. My suggestion, then, is that you contact your publisher and/or Amazon to see how this might be possible. Just listing the Table of Contents will help.
The reason that I’m making this a public comment, instead of just emailing your USS Mariner site, is due to the likelihood that one of the USS Mariner readers knows more about Amazon’s new book process than I do.
All good points. Right now, there’s a lot of inaccurate information there, and we don’t have a final cover design, so I entirely expect that when we get through layout (etc) they’ll fully revise the entry.
But I will do all those things, and more. Thanks.
Don’t forget us Brits! I want the book, but it is not available over here on our Amazon.
I can accept Rogers’ explanation for the whole thing. It just depends on what your definition for was was.
Although, I’m beginning to understand more fully his distain for cameramen.
2) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players on a team. Any player other than the pitcher may have numbers, letters, insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt.
Out of curiousity: Has there been an exception made for those exceptionally bad long-sleeve undershirts with the weird dotted pattern? Or is this something that is just unofficially okay to keep the sponsors happy?
So, if the Cardinals wanted to get Rogers kicked out for wearing a batting practice hat, the Tigers could get Jim Edmonds kicked out for wearing a two-tone windbreaker under his jersey…
I’m pretty sure no one’s getting kicked out over a uni violation (especially in the WS) unless they absolutely refuse to change to something compliant when/if asked.
Generally speaking, uniform enforcement is really lax. We saw it here with Joey Cora’s pins/nose strips etc, but the most notorious example is probably Pedro Martinez intentionally fraying the uniform sleeve on his pitching arm to try and distract hitters during his delivery. Even then umpires wouldn’t go after him unless they other side made a specific complaint and asked them to.
They don’t want to be uniform cops as much as they can avoid it.
OK, I give up! DMZ, I pre-ordered your book…
P.S. they’re charging me $11.16.
I recognized the stuff on Rogers’ hand as pinetar right away, too. This thread has a lot of great background information in it, like the batting-practice-cap/uniform stuff and LaRussa managing his A’s steroid giants and his own Cards pitchers being a possible factor for not yapping about Rogers.
Interestingly, I go after LaRussa twice, because he was (at least) a bystander in managing the first steroids-ridden team but doing nothing, and his role in the McGwire andro controversy (such as it was). In fact – well, I won’t spoil it.
the most notorious example is probably Pedro Martinez intentionally fraying the uniform sleeve on his pitching arm to try and distract hitters during his delivery.
what?! he wasn’t splitting the sleeves to accomodate his massive Kluszewski-esque arms?
#35, Triple word score, msb…
Nice Kluszewski reference. I actually thought of Gregg Valentino.
———–
For the Brits, in my experience Amazon.ca is really good at getting shipments to Britain. I have a friend in London who routinely orders US-released computer games through them.
Plus, they’re charging less for the book than Amazon.com.
Plus, they’re charging less for the book than Amazon.com.
Wha–? But what does that do for the royalties????
hey! I have a $5.00 Promotional Credit owed me from Amazon!
I’ve sort of thought about this thing some more, and here’s what I think: even though many pitchers probably use pine tar or some other illegal substance, Kenny Rogers was dumb enough to get caught by the other team and therefore the umpires should have inspected his hand and tossed him. If he’s going to break the rules, he should be discrete about it.
Anyone remember Omar complaining about Arthur Rhodes’ jewelry? And Arthure went ballistic, but the umps made him remove it?
For an alleged infraction like that of Rogers, the World Series isn’t the place to throw him out.
I say “alleged” because it might not have been an illegal substance. There was no discernible difference to my eye between Rogers’s pitches before black hand and after black hand.
Also, I wish somebody would tell Fox to stop with the extreme closeups. If I can see that a pitcher needs to use Crest Special Whitener toothpaste, I am much much much too close.
It also gives the Fox announcers yet another way to be irritating–the way they carried on after their “discovery” it was like they had caught him whacking off in front of a mirror in the men’s room.
“Whoa, Tim, check that camera shot–those two nose hairs look like they’re a mile apart.”
Hey gwangung – please e-mail me, I would like to talk to you about your sketch comedy.
cglassey (at) gmail (dot) com
It’s hard to be discrete if, as theorized, he’s been cheating continuously.
It’s hard to be discrete if, as theorized, he’s been cheating continuously.
Personally, I’d say that baseball is inherently a discrete game, making it difficult to do anything continuously. Of course, over a long enough time, a continuum discription might be pretty accurate.
Wow, I’d love to read that cheaters book. Who’s going to sell me their used copy?
Wow, I’d love to read that cheaters book. Who’s going to sell me their used copy?
If enough of us call the King County Library System, they’ll probably buy a copy!
#47. Call them often enough and they’ll probably buy 50 copies. Though I’ll buy a copy myself, I’ve already called the Portland Public Library twice (from different phone numbers), requesting the book.
In the long run, the more people who are exposed to such books, the more of such books they’ll buy. The downside is that libraries don’t pay as much for the books as regular people and so the writer makes less on each copy the libraries buy.
Great post, I was looking for something more knowledgeable on the subject than what I read in the headlines. I’m looking forward to your book on the subject. And I hope it covers part of that year I remember from my childhood – 89 ? – where all these players got caught scuffing the ball and corking bats. ?
#47– you can also request they buy the book online ….
http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageID=collection_sp
https://www.kcls.org/ill/bookreq.cfm