Ugh
Dave · December 6, 2006 at 2:21 pm · Filed Under Mariners
There are conflicting reports surrounding a potential trade of Rafael Soriano to the Braves for Horacio Ramirez. Several sources close to the Braves claim its done – one source with the M’s claims its not.
We should know in a few hours.
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At least we didn’t have to wait long to find out if the M’s would panic after Schmidt signed with LA…
So what does the rotation look like next year? Ugh is right.
Has this been reported anywhere but the Braves scout.com site yet?
Thankfully, my keyboard has a wristpad, which saved my head and keyboard from breaking from the desk-pounding.
So Dave:
– You think the Braves will give Soriano a chance to start?
– Is this part of some larger roster-clearing move for something bigger?
– Was the M’s FO that low on Soriano that they’d deal him for a broken-down back-of-the-rotation guy?
What. The. Hell.
This HAS to be part of something bigger…. (pile of shit?)
No way Bavasi get’s it up the ass on a deal like this…
Hoping this is only a “report” and not “official”.
Ugh.
Kick Bavasi to the curb if this is true.
This is the most depressed I’ve ever felt about baseball. I just can’t even envision the Mariners next year. 100 losses, here we come.
This is a joke right??? What else are we getting in this deal?
I’m hoping this is BS because if its not, then this is BS….
It just can’t be happening. It just can’t. I will seriously break down and cry if this trade happens.
Bavasi should hang his head in shame.
No justification for this move. None.
It’s not about money. It’s not about talent. It’s not about reacting to the out-of-control FA market.
There is just no explanation for this move other than that the Mariners FO is totally and unquestionably incompetent. Period.
Three cheers for the quick recovery time of the USSM server!
horrible, just horrible.
his #2 comp thru age 26 is Jarrod Washburn…
It’s 22.45 here. It’s my birthday. I have had a horrible day to culminate a horrible year.
And now this.
I feel like crap. WHY, M’s?
Make the bad man stop.
My dog could have gotten better return for Rafael Soriano.
Rotoworld has some amusing comments on this trade if in fact it does go through.
16. Your dog would have BEEN a better return for Soriano. News that this was complete BS makes me feel as if the M’s just made a major good move. Maybe that was their intention, scare us into appreciating what we have so they can sit on their hands?
I’m not going to load my gun just yet. As of 3:11pm over at Lookout Landing they’re saying the M’s are denying this deal. GOD I hope so.
It makes absolutely no sense that the M’s would deal Soriano for a marginal back-end rotation guy when they were unwilling to move Soriano himself into the rotation! This is one of the few bargaining chips we have, if all we do is deal him for Ramirez, and there is NOTHING larger on the horizon, then Bavasi just signed his termination papers.
Maybe, just maybe, Bavasi thought he was getting THAT Ramirez. I can see it now…. “Chuck, you’re never going to believe it, all they want is SORIANO FOR MANNY!!!!!”
Someone owes my employer about a hours worth of work, because this deal upset me so much, I have been staring at the floor in disbelief.
We can all breathe easy. . .for now
So this deal has yet to be confirmed?
Maybe the M’s will throw in Jeff Clement to get it done.
Slocumb if ya got ‘em!
Maybe not. I’ve got people telling me that its done, and people saying its not.
No one is claiming its not being discussed.
Why? Has it been announced that the deal is a no go? I can’t find that anywhere.
According to Jerry Crasnick though, he cites a couple of “baseball people” as saying the Dodgers are now shopping Brad Penny for a bat. Sexson? Broussard? Ibanez? Penny’s only 28 and his 06 salary was 5.5 mil.
Maybe the fact it’s being discussed but not final yet means they’re talking about a larger deal. Maybe it still involves LaRoche?
Can we use this spare time to send someone to “Nancy Kerrigan” Horacio just to make sure he doesn’t pass the physical in case this turns out to be true?
If this deal goes down, Bavasi is the one to go after.
Man alive, I surely hope Bavasi isn’t that stupid . . .
#26 – the proper verb is “gillooly” him. As in, Nancy Kerrigan was gilloolied by Tanya Harding’s ex-husband.
Which has a completely different meaning that “gilmeching” someone.
Actually, the guy to be Kerrigan’d would be Mike Gonzalez(s?) right now. Current story seems to be Gonzalez for LaRoche.
Gilmeche: v. To induce hope and optimism in another, only to perform some act destroying that hope and optimism…
Maybe this is Dave’s way of helping to control the population problem.
Two Questions (one rhetorical)
If the Braves won’t include Tim hudson in any deal, can we at least have his soul patch?
Is Bill Bavasi actually functionally mentally retarded?
If true, Soriano must have been throwing 80 MPH TOPS in winter ball for this to happen… my GOD.
Rotoworld summed this up best: Michael Silverman says the Mariners refused to part with J.J. Putz and Adam Jones and apparently made Putz untouchable in talks. So, Putz, a soon-to-be 30-year-old reliever with a career ERA of 3.47 in 205 innings, cannot be had in trade talks, but Rafael Soriano, a soon-to-be 27-year-old reliever with a 2.89 ERA in 171 innings, is up for grabs for a No. 4 starter. Genius.
2007 Projected Lineup:
1b Jeff Manto
2b Jeff Manto
SS Jeff Manto
3b Jeff Manto
CF Jeff Manto
LF Jeff Manto
RF Jeff Manto
C Jeff Manto
SP Blas Minor
Closer Bobby Ayala
Bench: Jeff Manto
Manager: Jeff Manto
GM Bill Bavasi
Your dog would have BEEN a better return for Soriano.
Your dog has gone 200 innings in a season before? That’s some dog. Even Gil “about to make 40 million” Meche hasn’t done that.
#35: You can’t rate a pitcher using ERA. I haven’t had time to crunch the numbers on JJ & Raffy, but I do know this: Raffy is a bit more fragile and that worries me more than JJ turning 30.
Best assessment of this possible Soriano trade:
“Wow, the Mariners are f****** retarded!”
Regardless of how you compare JJ and Raffy, the Ramirez trade (if it happens) is a horrible one.
It doesn’t make any sense at all, it’s just trading for the sake of trading.
When I first read this story, I thought “No way. Absolutely no way.”
Then I remembered who our GM is.
I hate you, Bavasi.
Rotoworld summed this up best: Michael Silverman says the Mariners refused to part with J.J. Putz and Adam Jones and apparently made Putz untouchable in talks. So, Putz, a soon-to-be 30-year-old reliever with a career ERA of 3.47 in 205 innings, cannot be had in trade talks, but Rafael Soriano, a soon-to-be 27-year-old reliever with a 2.89 ERA in 171 innings, is up for grabs for a No. 4 starter. Genius.
Uh, there’s a significant detail being left out there. Hint: Rafael Soriano didn’t pitch full seasons in 2004, 2005 AND 2006 (remember he was rested for a while in July, THEN sent to the DL with shoulder problems). Putz, on the other hand, has never been on the DL.
I’d take Putz over Raffy in a heartbeat, even with the age difference.
Yes, but what’s the point of considering Putz untouchable? At least he would net us Manny!
Dave,
Could you kindly quell our seemingly collective heartbreak and tell us what good is going to come from this? I cant take it any longer.
as long as we are quoting Rotoworld:
According to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the Braves are just waiting for some information on Mike Gonzalez’s elbow before going through with the Gonzalez-for-Adam LaRoche trade with the Pirates.
Also, it’s worth noting that the article, which was published at 5 p.m. ET, says nothing about the reported Rafael Soriano-for-Horacio Ramirez trade with the Mariners.
Don’t forget the liner off the head. That can wreck a career all by itself.
Sadly, tomorrow’s headlines will read “Mariners lose local boy” or “Mariners add a missing piece in Ramirez”, instead of “Mariners execute moronic trade.”
I think that should be:
1b Jeff Manto
2b Jeff Manto
SS Rey Ordonez
3b Greg Dobbs
CF Willie Bloomquist
LF Jeff Manto
RF Jeff Manto
C Jeff Manto
SP Horacio Ramirez
Closer Bobby Ayala
Bench: Jeff Manto
Manager: Jeff Manto
GM Bill Bavasi
Yes, but what’s the point of considering Putz untouchable? At least he would net us Manny!
Putz wouldn’t have fetched Manny by himself, and maybe the M’s aren’t happy with the idea of their closer being someone who has no record of staying healthy over a complete season, being backed up by Jon Huber and Emiliano Fruto?
from Hickey’s blog:
“Although there were some reports suggesting the Mariners might be trying to trade for Tim Hudson of the Braves, it seems unlikely that will occur. The Braves had been willing to think about moving Hudson as a preemptive financial move — he gets a modest (??) $6 million this year, but is due to get $13 million in 2008, and the Braves are always trying to cut salary.
Atlanta seems likely to keep him, at least for this season. What changed was the fact that the Braves were not able to entice Tom Glavine back down south as a free agent. Glavine re-signed with the Mets the other day. Hudson could still be moved, but it will take a much better offer than before to make it worth the Braves’ while.”
Where is Joel in all of this? Is he a free agent? If so, has ANYONE expressed any interest in him? Just curious and am in no way suggesting that the M’s should consider bringing him back.
I don’t see how you could have watched Putz’s development last year from a one pitch flamethrower into a dominant closer then question why we would want to keep him over a guy with good stuff but a suspect (and already surgically repaired) arm who just took the worst line drive off the head in the history of line drives off the head.
Bender, I think you are missing the point… Putz could’ve brought in Manny (along with two others players), while Soriano brought a mediocre at best starter. Soriano is selling low, while Putz would be selling high.
Pineiro is a third-year arbitration eligible, but he can’t be tendered an offer worth more than a 40% pay cut from his 6.3 mil salary from this past season. If he returns to Seattle it won’t be until after they non-tender him, (in order to avoid paying well over 3 million) which makes him free to negotiate with any team.
First time poster.
Hi everyone. I’m actually a Blue Jays fan but I like your team and your site. I am also sitting here, praying for a deal also to not go through (I think the Soriano for Horacio Sanz deal won’t go through, and if it does, there’s another player involved)….please don’t let us sign Gil Meche for 4/40. So, I look at Meche’s stats, and I honestly don’t think he’s that good. Plus, his home/road split has a +5.00 ERA away from SAFECO (pitcher’s park), and the ROgers Centre is a hitting park. I foresee him as a 5.00 ERA guy, even if he harnesses his upside somewhat. Also, his stats last year were OKAY, but most were in the first half, and then he exploded. We’re desperate, but I think our young guys, though not great, could do almost as well for no money. Thoughts?
Last I heard, Bavasi was now considering trading Soriano, Putz, Clement and Adam Jones to the Braves for a sack of ‘magical’ beans!
Bender, I think you are missing the point… Putz could’ve brought in Manny (along with two others players), while Soriano brought a mediocre at best starter. Soriano is selling low, while Putz would be selling high.
Putz + Jones + Clement/Butler/? is not“selling high.” Putz straight up for Manny might be selling high. I would prefer Putz to Soriano, significantly.
Show me the magic pixie dust fairy land you live in where someone could trade Putz straight up for Manny please. It sounds like a wonderful place.
I sure hope not. He’s cheap, but does he throw strikes? I think we’d have a better shot with Tim Meadows or Colin Quinn, as far as washed-up SNL stars go.
MLN: I read that blog. Who is the guy who thinks we should trade Felix for Melky Cabrera? Wow…
Ramirez’s numbers in the majors are horrible. In 521.1 innings, he struck out 248 (4.28 K/9) and walked 200 (3.45 K/9). He gets a lot of ground balls, but still. Yuck.
I sure hope not. He’s cheap, but does he throw strikes? I think we’d have a better shot with Tim Meadows or Colin Quinn, as far as washed-up SNL stars go.
Ha ha! I would prefer Tina Fey — I hear she has a good knuckleball.
I was wondering if the Horacio Sanz entry was an attempt at humor that I just didn’t get, or if he had the last names wrong.
As long as we don’t trade for Jimmy Fallon, I won’t have to kill myself!
#55: I feel for ya’.
#51– per Geogg Baker’s blog:
“Seattle has until Dec. 12 to tender a contract to the arbitration-eligible Pineiro. If the Mariners don’t do this, he becomes a free-agent and could be much sought after given the scarcity of starting pitchers out there and their quickly-inflating pricetags. The danger in Seattle offering Pineiro a contract, though, is that they lose any pending arbitration case and wind up stuck with a pitcher they don’t really want anymore at much too high a cost. Don’t forget, the salaries for even mediocre arms keep going up, up, up. My guess is the Mariners try to peddle Pineiro off as part of a package before the deadline and then let him become a free agent if they are unsuccessful.”
On a similar note, I hear the Red Sox are making a play for Jimmy Fallon.
Jimmy Fallon could do that funky Pepsi dance delivery. But as a prospect, Horacio Sanz laughs too much during plays.
63- Beat me to it.
Just one question.. Can Bavasi REALLY be this stupid?
If he makes this trade, he should be fired ON THE SPOT.
Hey I had Geoff Baker too in Toronto. He’s famous for the White Jays article claiming JP RIccardi only sought white guys. But he was a pretty good writer.
jaysbaseballfan:
We’d much rather have the Jays sign Gil Meche than have him remain a Seattle Mariner. Oh, he’s not the worst pitcher in the majors by a long shot, we’ve also got Joel Piniero, also available, should your GM be interested in a pitcher who did win 16 games once, I think. Of course that was in 1942, the last year he was effective.
And Fallon doesn’t? Too bad we can’t get one of the good big guys from SNL, like Chris Farley, or John Belushi!
#69: Yes, he might just be if this deal happens. Now if this part of a larger package deal, then I can forgive him if Ramirez is a throw in.
Oh yeah it was humor. I just thought the real guy sucked so why use his name?
What a BS….can´t believe the mariners do this trade…regards from europe, miss the mariners and seattle:)
from the Boston Globe yesterday: “If there was a pattern to be detected in the Manny Ramírez trade talks here, it was this: The Red Sox are focusing on getting a closer in return.
In talks with the Dodgers, they asked for mountain man (6 feet 3 inches, 290 pounds) Jonathan Broxton, LA’s 22-year-old setup man. In talks with the Angels, they gave GM Bill Stoneman a choice: closer Francisco Rodriguez or setup man Scot Shields. In talks with the Mariners, the names of closer J.J. Putz and setup man Rafael Soriano surfaced. Mariners GM Bill Bavasi acknowledged talking to the Sox about Ramírez, but with a noticeable lack of enthusiasm that a deal might be struck.
[snip]
The names the Sox are seeking in return for Ramírez only begin with closers. With the Dodgers, they have asked about prized outfield prospect Matt Kemp, third base prospect Andy LaRoche, and first base prospect James Loney.
With the Angels, shortstop Orlando Cabrera, a catalyst to the Sox’ run to the 2004 World Series, has been mentioned, along with young pitchers Ervin Santana and Jered Weaver.
With the Padres, who all but dropped out of the Manny mix when it became clear that more than setup man Scott Linebrink would be required to do a deal, ace Jake Peavy was the desired target.
With the Mariners, Sexson and outfield prospect Adam Jones were the names being mentioned.
Also, I’m giving an external view, but I think a deal of JJ Putz and Adam Jones for Manny Ramirez would have been a heist for you guys? Since some money is freed in not paying Schmidt, and perhaps the Red Sox could have put a little cash in too.
There could be a murder mystery tonight if the deal goes through, if you know what I mean.
#77– except that it wouldn’t have been just Putz & Jones.
Well another mid-level, and not top prospect. Then it’d be great.
If nothing else, at least Baker isn’t a PR mouthpiece a la Finnigan.
I agree with EC…
Basically the Ms decided that soriano isnt going to rack the rotation so now you have to compare him to Putz from the stanpoint of each only being a bullpen arm. Given the injury concerns, I’d trade Soriano first.
Now what I would trade him for is something better than Ramirez… I can’t imagine that really is going to happen. After the *trade* leaked, I’m sure Bavasi got about 10 calls to his cell phone with better offers.
I think they wanted more than that, like Putz, Jones, Clement and maybe one other guy. That’s a lot.
From the clip above it sounds like the package the Red Sox asked for was….
Putz or Soriano plus Sexson and Jones.
#82- I hope you’re right about it not happening, but keep in mind that this is the man that thought “The Carl Everett Experiment” was a good idea…
It’s official. Soriano for Horacio.
says who…another rotoworld blurb? not very convincing.
RS is so young, and his pitching career so short I think he has many good years ahead.
Obviously, Putz has done well, but I can only guess that if this trade happens it says that the M’s think Lowe is very much ready for 2007. Mateo is still a mop up guy.
We got the WRONG Ramirez, damnit!!!
How is Soriano’s health after that head hit thing? Maybe he won’t be the same like Matt Clement.
David O’Brien at the local Atlanta paper is proclaiming “Done Deal!”
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2006/12/06/braves_topheavy.html#comment-859673
By David O’Brien
December 6, 2006 08:01 PM EST
Soriano for Horacio is a DONE DEAL. Hasn’t been announced yet, but done. Gonna write story and wait for announcement.
#85– I hope you’re right about it not happening, but keep in mind that this is the man that thought “The Carl Everett Experiment” was a good idea…
no, this is the man who was willing to give his manager “The Carl Everett Experiment”. Bill was pretty upfront about what he thought Carl might bring the club.
Geoff Baker reporting it as well:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003453703_webwintermeet03.html
M’s acquire Braves’ left-hander Horacio Ramirez
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — A Mariners team in desperate need of starting pitching is to announce soon that it has acquired left-hander Horacio Ramirez from the Atlanta Braves.
A major-league front-office source confirmed that a deal to bring Ramirez to Seattle, in exchange for relief pitcher Rafael Soriano, has been agreed to and that all that remains is the announcement.
My head hurts.
Geoff Baker is saying the same thing …
“A major-league front-office source confirmed that a deal to bring Ramirez to Seattle, in exchange for relief pitcher Rafael Soriano, has been agreed to and that all that remains is the announcement.
“There were physicals, but they’re all done and it’s going through,” the source said.”
man, there are some unbelieveably bad email questions to Geoff Baker on the sidebar link.
Rotoworld’s updated note:
“The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s David O’Brien says the Rafael Soriano-for-Horacio Ramirez deal between the Mariners and Braves is a done deal. Unbelievable. Maybe it’s really Soriano to Atlanta for Ramirez and the compromising pictures John Schuerholz has of Mariners GM Bill Bavasi. Anything as long as it’s not truly a one-for-one deal.”
Done or not, I don’t get it. Even looking at the traditional stats that the Mariners are found of, Ramirez isn’t good 11-9 4.63 ERA in 2005, and 5-5 4.48 ERA last year and that’s in the NL.
He’s more or less Jake Woods, who we already had for free. Even if the Mariners think Soriano won’t be effective after his injuries, they could get more than this for him.
Words can’t describe this…
Can someone fire up a quick online peition we can all sign to prevent them from inking the deal???
Way to break the tables, Jerry! Maybe you should use the convenient “Add link” button above the reply box, or at least go to http://tinyurl.com/ and fix that huge link next time.
Don’t have to worry about Lilly at least…
cnnsi.com
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — Cross Ted Lilly off your wish list, Yankees fans.
The veteran left-hander on Wednesday agreed to a deal with the Cubs that will pay him $40 million over four years, SI.com has learned.
What the hell?
It seems like the general consensus is that this is a horrible deal. What could have motivated the Mariners to make the deal?
Is it just desperation for something that can be labeled a starting pitcher? Or are there deeper forces at play here (maybe Soriano wants a chance to start and is kvetching about it in private?)
Atlanta Journal Constitution reporting this as a done deal as well…Soriano for Ramirez
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/index.html
101: That can’t be right. If Soriano wants a chance to start, and our rotation sucks, let him start. But don’t give him away to another team who will let him start.
sigh. all this on top of getting to hear the KJR guys announce that losing Schmidt means the Ms now have to get Zito. Offer him 5 years! (yeah, that’ll do it)
LOL…(sigh)…
The AJC caption under the picture refers to Ramirez as “injury-plagued!”
Argh. Ugh. Yuck. Patooey.
I mean c’mon Bavasi????? We could have kept Raffy and used Baek or Woods for NOTHING! Why this fellow?
Bah.
Well, it’s pretty clear that the Mariners at this point don’t view Soriano as a viable starter, ever. Which he might not be, who knows?
But I’ll admit that that was totally me grasping at straws. I’m trying to find a way this deal makes sense.
So far, I’m failing.
Maybe, think of it this way… Ramirez is cheap, 3 mil or so through arb? Maybe this IS a way to stockpile money for a Zito run?
Gas thinks if you have to trade one of the two, you should move Beltre. I should just turn the radio off.
Here is a positive wish for you all… maybe Soriano goes to Atlanta in a deal that nets us Manny Ramirez. The Atlanta folks may have assumed it was Horacio and the Seattle folks are denying that it is Horacio and not giving away that it is indeed Manny?
Ok long shot… but its something to ponder that tastes better.
FWIW, Hickey says “No Ramirez-Soriano deal; at least not yet
Although a deal that would send reliever Rafael Soriano from Seattle to Atlanta in exchange for left-handed starter Horacio Ramirez was widely reported as done, both the Mariners and Braves denied that was so Wednesday. Apparently the two sides have to review medical records and both pitchers have to pass physical exams.”
Whatever Geoff Baker posted about Horacio Ramirez seems to have been removed now.
I’ve decided that when the rare occurrences appear that I can deliver breaking news that I am going to evade use of HTML at any cost.
Also, my page looks fine?
Ramirez is cheap, 3 mil or so through arb? Maybe this IS a way to stockpile money for a Zito run?
Soriano is cheaper at least this year and next year. Next he’ll make what $340,000?
Just a terrible trade for Bavasi. Sort of like the opposite of the Hudson trade would be.
Bavasi is a boy among men.
So they both have to pass Physicals.
Who’s the doctor that Mariners nation can bribe to say Ramirez is no-go?
The fact that it’s gotten this far is absurd. This could be crappiest 1 for 1 of the offseason.
The Seattle Times is reporting it now…really sad.
Following this winter meeting is reminding me of watching the Mariners on TV this past year. You keep thinking something great is going to happen, then everyone “underperforms.”
It’s too early to give up on Soriano. And for a .500 pitcher? Now where have I seen a .500 pitcher lately? Don’t they grow on trees around here?
IF IT ISN’T DONE BAVASI DON’T DO IT!!!!!!!
Number 1, anyone named ‘Horacio’ is a tool that will never be good at anything, number two, how does bavASSi still have a job, number 3, why should I care about people who make millions of dollars and dont care about me, and finally, number 4, when does the new season of The Shield start?
“A major-league front-office source confirmed that a deal to bring Ramirez to Seattle, in exchange for relief pitcher Rafael Soriano, has been agreed to and that all that remains is the announcement major league front office source has confirmed the trade” —-from the Seattle Times website.
“A major-league front-office source confirmed that a deal to bring Ramirez to Seattle, in exchange for relief pitcher Rafael Soriano, has been agreed to and that all that remains is the announcement”—-from the Seattle Times website.
What is Raffy’s arb status? Could that be a factor in this? He certainly was way cheaper than Ramirez last year.
You couldn’t make these up (from the Geoff Baker article):
The only way this works out for the Mariners is if Soriano is “not right” physically and mentally from his beaning and his arm problems.
Otherwise, somewhere John Schuerholtz is doing his happy dance.
Just read the times article myself… Something HAS to be missing here.
#122– you should point out those are ‘fan’ questions, not Baker’s thoughts.
the unattributed article on the Times sports frontpage is essentially the last blog post by Baker.
This deal really doesn’t make sense considering JJ Putz was considered the untouchable part of a Manny Ramirez trade. Soriano is one of the game’s best relievers (if his head thing hasn’t made him a bad pitcher), and trading him here is for 40 cents on the dollar. By kicking in a bit more talent, Man Ram could have been had, and he’s one of the greatest hitters of all time. I hate when trades like this happen. If it makes you feel any better, I still feel pissed that the Jays got absolutely FLEECED for Lyle Overbay last year (Dave Bush, Zach Jackson, Gabe Gross), plus giving them Corey Koskie and $7 million for a minor leaguer with an 8 ERA.
My two cents:
1) Frakfrakfrakfrakfrak.
2) JeffMantoFan, don’t be dissin’ the fine name “Horacio.” History and literature are your friends. Just because this particular Horacio is really lemon-juice-and-black-light secret code for “second coming of Kirk Rueter” doesn’t mean that you need to go attacking the entire population of Horatios. (I share your overall sentiment, though…see #1)
This has to be a joke right? Just a little fun between Bavasi and the fans before he signs Zito, right? RIGHT? HA HA HA!
“Why me? Why anyone?”
If this trade doesnt get sweetened up, I am not going to sleep well tonight.
Re: jays baseball fan:
please leave sir, everyone knows that canadians know nothing about baseball, and plus, this is a the USS Mariner, not the USS Bluejay. Discuss
Fine I won’t mention the Jays. Sorry about the trade, that’s all.
Look what the Atlanta Constitution-Journal
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2006/12/06/1207ramirez.htmlis saying about Soriano.131: Geeze man, that is not the Seattle Sports Fan motto I know and love. Since when do we bash other people like that? This isn’t NY.
Somebody has to have Bavasi’s cell phone number right now…right? Anyone have that so we can post it here and call him continually so he can’t complete this deal??? Besides…I need to call Bavasi and see if I can interest him in a bridge I have for sale.
Where are people like him when an ordinary guy like me wants to make a deal?
Jays fan, stick around. It would do us M’s fan good to talk about a team that doesn’t regularly piss us off…
I’m still waiting for some catch. The article probably reads something like the following, but nobody’s computer loads it correctly:
i have an empty can of Rockstar Juiced (Guava) anyone wanna trade me an XBox 360 for it?
131: Geeze man, that is not the Seattle Sports Fan motto I know and love. Since when do we bash other people like that? This isn’t NY.
He’s a Jeff Manto fan. That says it all.
so it’s official now…
how on earth does this deal make ANY sense other than the fact that Ramirez is a SP… there must be some information we are missing…
Lake Buena Vista, Fla. – The Braves got the elite setup man they wanted Wednesday when they agreed to trade injury-plagued starting pitcher Horacio Ramirez, center-fielder Andruw Jones, and slugger Hank Aaron to Seattle for reliever Rafael Soriano…
I would rather not have a 72 year old man on my favorite baseball team. Although he would be 10x better than anyone we have. Hmmmm.
If I were not a Mariner fan I would be pointing my finger at the organization and laugh uncontrollably about this trade. what? Did bavasi get a callgirl in the offer too?
If I were not a Mariner fan I would be pointing my finger at the organization and laugh uncontrollably about this trade. what? Did bavasi get a callgirl in the offer too?
141: What about the veteran experience? Aaron played on a world champion ballclub!
Cettainly I would hope, anyhow, that this does not mean that Bavasi has pigionholed the extra cash for Zito?
What about the veteran experience? Aaron played on a world champion ballclub!
Well there’s that too…
Cettainly I would hope, anyhow, that this does not mean that Bavasi has pigionholed the extra cash for Zito?
What extra cash? Soriano was probably going to make in the $1.5m to $3m range in arbitration. Ramirez made $2.2m last year, should be a bit more this time.
Even if this was for some reason done to make room for Zito, that would only be adding insult to injury, or maybe vice-versa.
This is like a horror movie..
Between jaysbaseballfan and JeffMantoFan, I’d rather have jaysbaseballfan, thanks. What a rude, unnecessary post #131 was . . .
Freddy Garcia is a Phillie, according to FoxSports… Another option off the table.
This offseason has been a horror of hopes raised and dashed.
Somehow this needs to be a Manny Ramirez comes to Seattle story.
ESPN is reporting the reports now
Click HERE
This is pretty sad. I especially like that fact that Horacio ALSO got hit by a linedrive in the head.
Thanks Bill.
147. I think the extra cash was a reference to the difference between Ramirez and another free agent starter, not Ramirez and Soriano.
This trade sucks. They should have tried Soriano in the rotation before trading for someone even more injury prone that Soriano. Bavasi effectively gave away Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen and Randy Wynn, getting nothing of value in return–add Soriano to the list.
#147
Can you recall any “freeagent signing of stating pitchers? And what you said is the point I was making, shesh???
I was being ironical you idiots, and if you really think I like Jeff Manto you need professional help…that is all
I think this was rumor put out there by a Braves fan to counter the rumor that Bavasi was fleecing the Braves by trading for Hudson and LaRoche in a 3-way. Anything else than this explaination just doesn’t add up. Look at what Chicago is getting for Freddy! Soriano is much better than Gavin Floyd and I would take Freddy over Ramirez in a heartbeat!
Well, hopefully Bavasi has come to his senses sooner than later, and this is all rumor mongering, but…
I can envision how this went now.
Schuerholz: Hey Bill, we hear you’re looking for SP, we are looking for an elite Setup man. Wanna talk.
Bavasi: Sure, we’ve had our eyes on Tim Hudson. Maybe, oh, Soriano for Hudson.
Schuerholz: Hmmmmm, well, Tim did have a down year, and Raffy looks like what we want, but I’m not sure I can do that trade as is.
Sabean: Can I interupt. We can give you Benitez as well, if we get a good firstbaseman, like, oh, Richie Sexson.
Bavasi: Oh, that sounds good to me.
Schuerholz: OK, hold on while I dont drag my feet until Jason Schmidt is signed.
Bavasi, Sabean: What?!
Schuerholz: Never mind, just thinking aloud.
Bavasi: So it’s a deal
Schuerholz: Ssssuuuurrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee……………………….
Bavasi: What’s wrong?
Schuerholz: Oh, nothing, hey did you hear Jason Schmidt just agreed w/ the Dodgers?
Bavasi: What?!
Schuerholz: Nothing, well, this deal doesn’t quite suite our needs, but maybe we can work something out.
Sabean: Hey, well, let me know, Richie sounds like a good fit. Talk to you two later.
Schuerholz: OK, Bill, well, I know you need starting pitching, and youy’re in a win or else season, and we want Raffy, so do I ever got a deal for you.
Bavasi: OK, so what is it
Schuerholz: Soriano for Horacio Ramirez, straight up.
Bavasi: How, why, no, I need a starter bad, or it’s my job, you knew it the whole ti….
Schuerholz:
Billy Beane (appears out of nowhere): Hey Bill, I know we’re division rivals and , but I was curious if we could work out a ….
I think I will stop watching baseball, move to German and start watching soccer if this is real.
We have conflicting reports, Mariner fans.
Apparently the JSA does not call for spewing the same poison.
This could still go through as-is, and if it does, I will be angrier than I am now, and I’m pretty angry that the Mariners would even let it be known that Horacio Ramirez for Rafael Soriano is a deal worth considering. But hold on…it’s not done just yet.
#147
Can you recall any “freeagent signing of stating pitchers? And what you said is the point I was making, shesh???
You didn’t say anything about free agent starting pitchers. I quoted your entire post. Go back and take a look.
If you mean that the M’s have, they picked up Justin Lehr. Other than that, I’m not sure what you might mean about free agent signing of starting pitchers, since that wasn’t even in your post.
Aside from that, no reason to get upset just because I made a point.
Correction: Germany.
From livid curtain’s hue, a tangram emerges: a country.
It also seems that all of the major news outlets are starting to quote everyone else to confirm their story. Things like “Multiple news outlets are reporting…” and “People are saying that a deal is in place…” None of it seems credible to me at this point.
Reminds me a lot of when Seattle had Randy Johnson on the table. Leaks got out about a deal with the Dodgers being done. Turns out, it was fueled by the internet. Not wanting to be out-scooped, major agencies started reporting rumor as fact.
We all know how that turned out.
I don’t get worked up until I see something official from the M’s. Deals are often not what they are made out to be on the internet.
If nothing else, it’s certainly been a day of non-quotes and comments.
Holy Smokes…check out the anagram I came up for Bill Bavasi:
Is a b-ball idiot!!!
I’ve never noticed that before!!!
Churchill is saying there is a prospect involved, although he did not say which side that prospect would be coming from… Any word from YOUR sources Dave?
This trade sucks. They should have tried Soriano in the rotation before trading for someone even more injury prone that Soriano. Bavasi effectively gave away Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen and Randy Wynn, getting nothing of value in return–add Soriano to the list.
As stated in the next thread about the Soriano trade, you don’t evaluate a trade after the fact, you evalute it at the time of its occurrence. At the time, we thought we were getting a good deal with Freddy, Guillen had been an injury problem that wasn’t producing nearly what he has been lately, and the Randy Wynn trade was a gamble not designed to help immediatley. While that doesn’t defend the suckitude of this trade, I don’t feel it’s a legit comparison.
Does Atlanta have any hot prospects worth this deal?
Lilly gets 4/$40 from Cruds. Seems relatibely reasonable for a pitcher who might be a better lefty than Zito. Lou beside himself.
Yanks predictably focused on Pettitte, apparently didn’t even bid on former farmhand Lilly.
Good news for Blue Jays Fans here and abroad: they are closing in on Meche AND Matt Stairs.
How about some Bavasi haikus.
Ahem..
player value high
don’t throw away for nothing
bill doesn’t get it
There is no chance at the moment right now that Soriano’s going to start for the Braves. There’s not a spot for him to do so. You’ve got (in order) John Smoltz, Tim Hudson, Mike Hampton, Chuck James, and Kyle Davies. The Braves also have about three or four other players either in the bullpen currently or in AAA Richmond who could be starting in the major leauges right now. Also, the Braves are very unlikely to unload any of their young talent because of payroll constrictions. One more thing. The Braves might be unloading Adam LaRoche, but wouldn’t be interested in getting Richie Sexton because his contract would be more than LaRoche’s even with arbitration.