New extra-fun Vidro trade comment thread
DMZ · December 13, 2006 at 9:42 pm · Filed Under Mariners
… because we now have many threads. Now there is only one.
So, to sum up:
Vidro for Snelling and Fruto.
Vidro thinks he’s going to DH.
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141 Responses to “New extra-fun Vidro trade comment thread”
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I just wish Zito would sign with the Mets so this horrible offseason would be over.
I’m hoping that Beane makes a trade with the Nationals that brings Doyle to Oakland. I’d love to see him make the Mariners regret this trade in person 19 times a year.
If the USSM crew takes up on Lauren’s idea, I’ll be there.
To paraphrase the Beatles, “I read the news today, oh #?@!” I really don’t want to root for the M’s to lose so Bavasi & Hargrove get canned, but it looks like that’s what’s going to happen regardless of what I root for.
Feh. I feel dirty.
I’m done with this team until Bavasi and/or Hargrove is gone. Lincoln would also be good. I hope that the team loses 110 games next year just so that this can happen. I used to feel conflicted about this, because I would like the team to compete but also want them fired. But now it has reached the point that if they aren’t fired the team will be mediocre-to-sucky forever, and teases like last June aren’t worth that being the Mariners’ future.
The ONLY thing that could save this would be if the M’s pulled off an even-greater fleecing of another team. But come on. You think that Bavasi can do that? If he could do that, he wouldn’t have done this.
From now on, forget about it. I’m not watching any Mariners’ games unless Felix is pitching, but Bavasi is probably going to trade him to the Cubs for a box of Sammy Sosa baseball cards.
One of my friend’s brothers always used this as his personal Mariners slogan, and I can see this year it could be more applicable than ever before (thanks Bavasi):
Refuse to Lose … Ignore the Score!
The only thing I will be rooting for this season is the firing of Lincon, Bavasi, and Hardgrove.
Peter Gammons
In addition to those pitchers, the BoSox have Schilling and Wakefield. How many of those would be considered TOR guys?
In contrast, the Mariners in DESPERATE need for a top of the rotation guy, trade Soriano for Ramirez and Snelling/Fruto for Vidro…a broken down, expensive second baseman.
I’m copywriting right now my new book title “The Dismantaling of a Profitable Baseball Team. A Case Study of the Mariners”
If this isn’t grounds for immediate termination I don’t know what is.
At this point, the only entertainment I can possibly hope to derive from the Mariners’ games this season is the amusement of watching the M’s broadcasters scramble, trying to find a positive spin to put on this team. They try way too damn hard to accentuate the positives, of which there have lately been none.
I have to join the Hargrove blaming camp on this one. Not because I think Bavasi’s been perfect, but because he at least did things that made sense.
Well, on the first hand, I do think the trade sucks. It would have been a great trade, oh, 4 or 5 years ago.
but, a few things to note:
1) Snelling has -never- contributed in all this time we’ve been talking about. He has all the hallmarks in the world of a guy who’ll never have a healthy year. So trading him isn’t in itself a bad move.
2) It would have been nice to get an outfielder for him.
Okay…I’ve had some time to think about things.
First, if you don’t feel Snelling is going to be healthy enough and has lost of step because of his ACL injuries, wouldn’t this be the BEST time to trade him while he has some value?
Second, I know Vidro thinks he’s DH, but why would I bring in a declining hitter to play a position he’s never played before? I don’t think stepping in to DH is as easy as some people think it is. You’ve got to train yourself mentally for keeping your focus in the game.
Third, Could another trade be brewing for pitching? (this is my wish because I can’t imagine Bavasi doing TWO stupid trades in a two week period…I mean…sure, one stupid trade, you got caught up in the emotion of losing Schmidt and all the deals happening around you at the meetings…it could happen. But after being relentlessly excoriated by ALL since that time….you would thing Bavasi wouldn’t make a second stupid trade.)
Who needs a second baseman and a left-handed bat and has some pitching to trade? Dodgers? Boston?
Mr.Dave…any whispers of another trade swirling around?
Oh, oh…I know! The M’s are gearing up a BLOCKBUSTER trade with the Sixers for AI!!!
In Bavasi’s defense … being fleeced by Jim Bowden isn’t as much of an insult as people here seem to think. Between getting Lopez and Kearns from the Reds in exchange for random spare parts, signing all the good minor league FAs, and now this deal, he’s had a pretty good year (well, except for the whole not trading Soriano in July thing).
I’m thinking that the Kevin Mitchell trade may have made more sense than this one (nah). Maybe Snelling will fail his physical. Would that nix the trade? Baker doesn’t mention the possibility. It’s bad when poor knees save the GM from himself.
There is a serious problem with this franchise revolving around the DH position–always has been, even in the latter Edgar years. They’ve been really bad at plugging the hole with expensive or fading (or both) veterans (Lee Stanton year 2, Bob Robertson, Willie Horton, Richie Zisk, Jeff Burroughs, Gorman Thomas the list goes on) who, even if productive for a short time, had no future with the team and no ability to play the field. Edgar solved the problem, but strangely, new problems cropped up when it was clear they had no flexibility when he could no longer play defense, plus when interleague play came into being, it presented another difficulty because his bat was so important. You can’t afford to have a bad DH, but when the DH is your best hitter, that’s not perfect either. I always wondered whether the Mariners would have trouble in a World Series because of the Edgar problem.
Unfortunately, any problems Edgar presented look very good right now, because BB seems bent on going back to the broken-down veteran mode for filling the position. Only with Vidro, you get little power and an albatross contract, plus the loss of prospects. Burroughs, Thomas, and company didn’t cost this much in relative terms. A sad, sad day.
Geez, I just came back from Vegas to read THIS. And to think, I thought I’d reached the point where I could no longer get MORE emotionally uninvested in this team. Apparently I hadn’t, though I’m hard-pressed to figure out what they could do next to make it even worse.
(Oh no, I just thought of some things and now I’m going to try as hard as I can to purge those thoughts from my mind before they materialize…. this is how my experiences at the craps tables went as well….)
I hope Doyle has a long and fabulous career with the Nationals. Best of luck kid.
I have never understood the love or forgiveness that’s been often on display here for Bavasi, though he is a very charming man and I’m sure, a good husband, father, brother, son, etc. That seems like history though.
JMB: I like the button change; I would suggest additional versions, perhaps saying ‘before MORE damage is done’ or something to that effect. I’d still like to see Kim Ng get a shot, but I agree that Howard and Chuck are unlikely to be the first to break that particular glass ceiling. So bring on Antonetti….and do it quick.
Snelling and Fruto have proven nothing.
Vidro is an all star caliber bat.
Back off people. This trade makes us better.
From this Giants fan to my suffering Mariner fan cousins: I’m sorry. This upcoming season, I pledge to bring up our experience with Edgardo Alfonzo fewer than fifty times when discussing Vidro with my Seattle friends.
Hmm… A slap switch hitting, declining, #2 slot DH? Didn’t we trade him for Jesse Foppert a few years back?
The trouble with Snelling is he walks too much. Mariners have to be aggressive at the plate, not passive. That’s why Betancourt is such a good hitter, right?
116 – Care to elaborate on how this makes us better?
What is sad about this is I actually like Vidro. I just don’t like how stupid it was to trade those two and then take on most of the salary. That and we don’t have anywhere to put him…. Sheesh.
Snelling and Fruto have proven nothing.
Vidro is an all star caliber bat.
That’s the exact recipe to create a bad team, you know. See Orioles, etc.
And, at that, what we’ve seen from the two shows that they are NOW better than Vidro, and if they’re like typical playeres, THEY will improve, while Vidro will decline.
No, you don’t back off from pointing out obviousness…
ah. to quote lyricist Larry Hart, “the self-deception that believes the lie…”
#116: Following that logic Wayne Krivsky should be fired because he failed to trade Homer Bailey for Luis Gonzalez at last season’s trade deadline…..
So I go to mariners.com, and I get this page:
Mariners.com
Cardiac Mariners? WTF? That just seems so fitting.
Anyone else notice that we’ll have one white dude in our starting lineup next year? Of course I’m not saying that this is good or bad. You just hear so much around here about the FO seeking out local white guys for the fan base. Is there anything to this?
Snelling and Fruto have proven nothing.
While Vidro has proven that his best years are long past.
Vidro is an all star caliber bat.
That was an entire war ago.
Back off people. This trade makes us better.
Nonsense. Snelling is a better hitter now and going forward–without being a huge cost.
Can we pool our money and take a out a full-page or half-page ad in the paper calling for Bavasi to be fired?
I’d contribute some $$$ to that…
So I go to mariners.com, and I get this page:
I don’t know what’s going on but that is absolutely hysterical.
Screenshot saved so I can have something about these 24 hours to share and laugh over with the grandkids one day.
Yeah. When was the last time ANYBODY got outsmarted by Jim Bowden. When you come out blatantly on the wrong side of a trade with the guy who locked up Christian Guzman for millions of dollars, you need to take a long hard look at yourself.
Sorry Bill. You seem like a really decent guy, but you have no more business being a major league GM than I would.
according to the Post’s Barry Svrluga on the radio this morning (when asked about Vidro’s knees) they are ok, and he started working out early this off-season — something he has never done in the past — because he now realizes that his knees mean his career.
The man is a 32 year old infielder and he is just now figuring this out.
1) Snelling has -never- contributed in all this time we’ve been talking about. He has all the hallmarks in the world of a guy who’ll never have a healthy year. So trading him isn’t in itself a bad move.
What might all of those hallmarks be, pray tell? Does he have a repeatable skill in getting injured? If you say so, then what are the other hallmarks?
from Corey Brock:
Even after a night of sleep, this still puzzles me. I would love to have some reporter eventually ask either Bavasi or Grover why they think that Vidro will outperform Snelling as a DH. Even if Vidro does, given the salary discrepancy, he better outperform Snelling by a quite a margin.
The only thing that I think can save Bavasi’s reputation is if he knows that he can’t fire Hargrove and he also knows that Grover won’t use the quality young players on the roster (Choo, Reed, Snelling, Jones, etc.). Bavasi’s only option, then, is to try to find useful players whom Grover would play. This does not completely exonorate Bavasi by any means, but I feel that moves such as this one point to a poison in the FO that extends beyond Bavasi. Firing him, which may well be warranted, would not cleanse or heal what is wrong with the M’s.
Keep an eye on the Alexa ratings for NovaRayMedical.com after it updates for Dec. 14th. Should be interesting to see how high the chart spikes up after it doesn’t even show a graph now, being a grand #5,432,875 site on the Internet.
Think they get any paying customers thanks to the M’s?
I can even contribute anything positive to this discussion.
For those that think this is a great deal for us….this is not the Vidro from the 2000 Expos.
Even after a night of sleep
You slept?
*Sigh*
Gonna be a long day.
When I start botching code I will give a hearty “thanks” to Bavasi.
Snelling has -never- contributed in all this time we’ve been talking about.
if you don’t feel Snelling is going to be healthy enough and has lost of step because of his ACL injuries, wouldn’t this be the BEST time to trade him while he has some value?
Snelling and Fruto have proven nothing.
And that’s why this is a terrible trade. Even if you take the most pessimistic view on what the Mariners gave up — that Snelling will never be healthy enough to contribute and Fruto will never be good — and you don’t value young prospects with good minor league records this trade doesn’t help the Mariners.
Vidro is an all star caliber bat.
Vidro was an all-star in 2003. So was Bret Boone. That’s FOUR seasons removed from 2007. Vidro’s SLG% has dropped three years straight as have his BB%. He’s missed time due to injury three seasons in a row. He was an all-star caliber bat at 2B. On the optomistic side, he might be an above average bat at 2B now. But he isn’t going to play 2B, he’s going to play DH where his bat is well below average and he replaces Broussard who has similar numbers.
So even if you believe Vidro makes the team better, does he make the team $6M better? Is he better than Marcus Giles who certainly would have signed a 2/$12M contract and wouldn’t cost prospects. Viewed simply as DH vs. DH, is there anyway he’s $12M better than Snelling over the next two years? To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if Snelling is $12M better than Vidro over the next two seasons.
Salary aside, I’m curious how anyone (especially anyone in the Mariners front office) concludes that this trade makes us better.
It’ll be interesting to hear what Ichiro thinks about all of this. I know I’d want off this sinking ship, pronto.
When Ichiro leaves, I hope that he at least says something really cool. I can’t come up with anything off the top of my head because I’m not cool like that, but something along these lines would be great:
Reporter: “So, Ichiro, why did you leave the Mariners to play for the Athletics at half the pay?”
Ichiro: “Atama no naka ni kaiso wa arimasu.”
Translator: “Ummm…I didn’t like the sushi in Seattle.”
“Lemme se, um, is Vidro going to be the backup 2B,SS,3B, or is he going to back up the backup, Bloomquist? And how will I get Willie his 250 at bats?” I’m sure these are the most important, acute, and far-reaching questions that Hargrove must be asking himself.
As for Lincoln, T. S. Eliot said it best:
“one of the low, upon whom assurance sits like a top hat upon a Bradford millionaire.”