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	<title>Comments on: New extra-fun Vidro trade comment thread</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: Celadus</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159372</link>
		<dc:creator>Celadus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 02:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159372</guid>
		<description>&quot;Lemme se, um, is Vidro going to be the backup 2B,SS,3B, or is he going to back up the backup, Bloomquist?  And how will I get Willie his 250 at bats?&quot;  I&#039;m sure these are the most important, acute, and far-reaching questions that Hargrove must be asking himself.

As for Lincoln, T. S. Eliot said it best:

&quot;one of the low, upon whom assurance sits like a top hat upon a Bradford millionaire.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Lemme se, um, is Vidro going to be the backup 2B,SS,3B, or is he going to back up the backup, Bloomquist?  And how will I get Willie his 250 at bats?&#8221;  I&#8217;m sure these are the most important, acute, and far-reaching questions that Hargrove must be asking himself.</p>
<p>As for Lincoln, T. S. Eliot said it best:</p>
<p>&#8220;one of the low, upon whom assurance sits like a top hat upon a Bradford millionaire.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: pygmalion</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159190</link>
		<dc:creator>pygmalion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159190</guid>
		<description>When Ichiro leaves, I hope that he at least says something really cool.  I can&#039;t come up with anything off the top of my head because I&#039;m not cool like that, but something along these lines would be great: 

Reporter: &quot;So, Ichiro, why did you leave the Mariners to play for the Athletics at half the pay?&quot;

Ichiro: &quot;Atama no naka ni kaiso wa arimasu.&quot;

Translator: &quot;Ummm...I didn&#039;t like the sushi in Seattle.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Ichiro leaves, I hope that he at least says something really cool.  I can&#8217;t come up with anything off the top of my head because I&#8217;m not cool like that, but something along these lines would be great: </p>
<p>Reporter: &#8220;So, Ichiro, why did you leave the Mariners to play for the Athletics at half the pay?&#8221;</p>
<p>Ichiro: &#8220;Atama no naka ni kaiso wa arimasu.&#8221;</p>
<p>Translator: &#8220;Ummm&#8230;I didn&#8217;t like the sushi in Seattle.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Xteve X</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159148</link>
		<dc:creator>Xteve X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159148</guid>
		<description>It&#039;ll be interesting to hear what Ichiro thinks about all of this. I know I&#039;d want off this sinking ship, pronto.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;ll be interesting to hear what Ichiro thinks about all of this. I know I&#8217;d want off this sinking ship, pronto.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam S</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159137</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159137</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Snelling has -never- contributed in all this time we’ve been talking about. &lt;/i&gt;
&lt;i&gt;if you don’t feel Snelling is going to be healthy enough and has lost of step because of his ACL injuries, wouldn’t this be the BEST time to trade him while he has some value?&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Snelling and Fruto have proven nothing.&lt;/i&gt;

And that&#039;s why this is a terrible trade.  Even if you take the most pessimistic view on what the Mariners gave up -- that Snelling will never be healthy enough to contribute and Fruto will never be good -- and you don&#039;t value young prospects with good minor league records this trade doesn&#039;t help the Mariners.

&lt;i&gt;Vidro is an all star caliber bat.&lt;/i&gt;
Vidro was an all-star in 2003. So was Bret Boone.  That&#039;s FOUR seasons removed from 2007.  Vidro&#039;s SLG% has dropped three years straight as have his BB%. He&#039;s missed time due to injury three seasons in a row.  He &lt;b&gt;was&lt;/b&gt; an all-star caliber bat at 2B.  On the optomistic side, he might be an above average bat at 2B now.  But he isn&#039;t going to play 2B, he&#039;s going to play DH where his bat is well below average and he replaces Broussard who has similar numbers.

So even if you believe Vidro makes the team better, does he make the team $6M better?  Is he better than Marcus Giles who certainly would have signed a 2/$12M contract and wouldn&#039;t cost prospects.  Viewed simply as DH vs. DH, is there anyway he&#039;s $12M better than Snelling over the next two years?  To be honest, I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if Snelling is $12M better than Vidro over the next two seasons.

Salary aside, I&#039;m curious how anyone (especially anyone in the Mariners front office) concludes that this trade makes us better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Snelling has -never- contributed in all this time we’ve been talking about. </i><br />
<i>if you don’t feel Snelling is going to be healthy enough and has lost of step because of his ACL injuries, wouldn’t this be the BEST time to trade him while he has some value?</i><br />
<i>Snelling and Fruto have proven nothing.</i></p>
<p>And that&#8217;s why this is a terrible trade.  Even if you take the most pessimistic view on what the Mariners gave up &#8212; that Snelling will never be healthy enough to contribute and Fruto will never be good &#8212; and you don&#8217;t value young prospects with good minor league records this trade doesn&#8217;t help the Mariners.</p>
<p><i>Vidro is an all star caliber bat.</i><br />
Vidro was an all-star in 2003. So was Bret Boone.  That&#8217;s FOUR seasons removed from 2007.  Vidro&#8217;s SLG% has dropped three years straight as have his BB%. He&#8217;s missed time due to injury three seasons in a row.  He <b>was</b> an all-star caliber bat at 2B.  On the optomistic side, he might be an above average bat at 2B now.  But he isn&#8217;t going to play 2B, he&#8217;s going to play DH where his bat is well below average and he replaces Broussard who has similar numbers.</p>
<p>So even if you believe Vidro makes the team better, does he make the team $6M better?  Is he better than Marcus Giles who certainly would have signed a 2/$12M contract and wouldn&#8217;t cost prospects.  Viewed simply as DH vs. DH, is there anyway he&#8217;s $12M better than Snelling over the next two years?  To be honest, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if Snelling is $12M better than Vidro over the next two seasons.</p>
<p>Salary aside, I&#8217;m curious how anyone (especially anyone in the Mariners front office) concludes that this trade makes us better.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159112</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159112</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Even after a night of sleep&lt;/i&gt;


You slept?

*Sigh*

Gonna be a long day.

When I start botching code I will give a hearty &quot;thanks&quot; to Bavasi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Even after a night of sleep</i></p>
<p>You slept?</p>
<p>*Sigh*</p>
<p>Gonna be a long day.</p>
<p>When I start botching code I will give a hearty &#8220;thanks&#8221; to Bavasi.</p>
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		<title>By: Mustard</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159109</link>
		<dc:creator>Mustard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159109</guid>
		<description>I can even contribute anything positive to this discussion.

For those that think this is a great deal for us....this is not the Vidro from the 2000 Expos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can even contribute anything positive to this discussion.</p>
<p>For those that think this is a great deal for us&#8230;.this is not the Vidro from the 2000 Expos.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159108</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159108</guid>
		<description>Keep an eye on the Alexa ratings for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=novaraymedical.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NovaRayMedical.com&lt;/a&gt; after it updates for Dec. 14th. Should be interesting to see how high the chart spikes up after it doesn&#039;t even show a graph now, being a grand #5,432,875 site on the Internet.

Think they get any paying customers thanks to the M&#039;s?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep an eye on the Alexa ratings for <a href="http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=novaraymedical.com" rel="nofollow">NovaRayMedical.com</a> after it updates for Dec. 14th. Should be interesting to see how high the chart spikes up after it doesn&#8217;t even show a graph now, being a grand #5,432,875 site on the Internet.</p>
<p>Think they get any paying customers thanks to the M&#8217;s?</p>
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		<title>By: Tek Jansen</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159107</link>
		<dc:creator>Tek Jansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159107</guid>
		<description>Even after a night of sleep, this still puzzles me.  I would love to have some reporter eventually ask either Bavasi or Grover why they think that Vidro will outperform Snelling as a DH.  Even if Vidro does, given the salary discrepancy, he better outperform Snelling by a quite a margin.  

The only thing that I think can save Bavasi&#039;s reputation is if he knows that he can&#039;t fire Hargrove and he also knows that Grover won&#039;t use the quality young players on the roster (Choo, Reed, Snelling, Jones, etc.).  Bavasi&#039;s only option, then, is to try to find useful players whom Grover would play.  This does not completely exonorate Bavasi by any means, but I feel that moves such as this one point to a poison in the FO that extends beyond Bavasi.  Firing him, which may well be warranted, would not cleanse or heal what is wrong with the M&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even after a night of sleep, this still puzzles me.  I would love to have some reporter eventually ask either Bavasi or Grover why they think that Vidro will outperform Snelling as a DH.  Even if Vidro does, given the salary discrepancy, he better outperform Snelling by a quite a margin.  </p>
<p>The only thing that I think can save Bavasi&#8217;s reputation is if he knows that he can&#8217;t fire Hargrove and he also knows that Grover won&#8217;t use the quality young players on the roster (Choo, Reed, Snelling, Jones, etc.).  Bavasi&#8217;s only option, then, is to try to find useful players whom Grover would play.  This does not completely exonorate Bavasi by any means, but I feel that moves such as this one point to a poison in the FO that extends beyond Bavasi.  Firing him, which may well be warranted, would not cleanse or heal what is wrong with the M&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159106</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159106</guid>
		<description>from Corey Brock:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The trade was agreed upon between the two clubs last Friday, but both sides needed Vidro&#039;s approval because he has a no-trade clause. After receiving the news from his agent, Seth Levinson, Vidro spoke to Mariners manager Mike Hargrove that same day on the phone, and the skipper told him that he would be a designated hitter and a backup at third, second and first base. 

Vidro then had a discussion with his wife, Annette, who told him to go to Seattle. Vidro then called Mariners outfielder Jose Guillen on Tuesday and informed him that he was going to approve the trade. &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from Corey Brock:</p>
<blockquote><p>The trade was agreed upon between the two clubs last Friday, but both sides needed Vidro&#8217;s approval because he has a no-trade clause. After receiving the news from his agent, Seth Levinson, Vidro spoke to Mariners manager Mike Hargrove that same day on the phone, and the skipper told him that he would be a designated hitter and a backup at third, second and first base. </p>
<p>Vidro then had a discussion with his wife, Annette, who told him to go to Seattle. Vidro then called Mariners outfielder Jose Guillen on Tuesday and informed him that he was going to approve the trade. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/comment-page-3/#comment-159105</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/13/new-extra-fun-vidro-trade-comment-thread/#comment-159105</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;1) Snelling has -never- contributed in all this time we’ve been talking about. He has all the hallmarks in the world of a guy who’ll never have a healthy year. So trading him isn’t in itself a bad move.&lt;/i&gt;

What might all of those hallmarks be, pray tell? Does he have a repeatable skill in getting injured? If you say so, then what are the other hallmarks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>1) Snelling has -never- contributed in all this time we’ve been talking about. He has all the hallmarks in the world of a guy who’ll never have a healthy year. So trading him isn’t in itself a bad move.</i></p>
<p>What might all of those hallmarks be, pray tell? Does he have a repeatable skill in getting injured? If you say so, then what are the other hallmarks?</p>
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