WaPo report: M’s agree to trade Snelling, Fruto for Vidro
The Washington Nationals took a major step toward freeing room on their future payroll and breaking loose a logjam in the middle infield, agreeing to trade second baseman Jose Vidro — who has spent his entire career with the Montreal-Washington organization — to the Seattle Mariners for a pair of prospects that could contribute to the 2007 team, Vidro said in a telephone interview tonight.
The trade — which is pending a physical for Vidro, expected to take place Thursday
I guess we hope Vidro blows that physical like a horse in Enumclaw, because this is crazy.
Chris Snelling is a 25-year old corner outfielder with an injury history and a plus arm who hit .250/.360/.427. Based on his PECOTA projections, he’s one of the best hitting prospects in baseball. He was the third or fourth-best hitter on the team last year (performance, not taking playing time into account).
Fruto’s a 22-year old reliever. He’s a big boy. He’s got a ridiculous change and through his whole career in the minors he was as stingy giving up the home run as you could possibly hope for.
Jose Vidro is a 31-yr old second baseman who hit .289/.348/.395 for the Nationals last year.
Does this bode ill for Jose Lopez? It does.
Nearly as important for Washington, however, is that Seattle has agreed to pay $12 million of the remaining $16 million left on Vidro’s contract for 2007 and ‘08.
You don’t take that on if he’s going to sit.
The Mariners have traded two players, one finally healthy and tearing the cover off the ball who can play right or left, and a still younger, cheap, effective reliever in order to acquire a 31-year old passable hitter who plays a position where team has another cheap, effective player (if Hargrove would just stop telling him to ground out over and over).
I’ve tried to come up with a justification for this, and I can’t. There must be another deal waiting, which makes this hard to justify in isolation: at least one of Broussard/Lopez/Sexson is going to be booted.
But this move hurts the team. More than just next season: Snelling and Fruto were both the kind of players who could be parts of the next Mariner championship team. Snelling in particular could be one of the best hitters on any team (if he stays healthy, of course), and he’s under team control for years for very little money. Jose Vidro’s a declining, increasingly immobile player on the wrong side of his peak who’ll be paid an immense amount of money. Vidro will not help the M’s win a pennant. If it comes to be, this will be one of the worst trades the team’s ever made, even if Snelling never plays another game and Fruto doesn’t throw another strike.
This is ridiculous garbage.
Update: Geoff Baker at the Seattle Times writes
Another offensive upgrade for the Mariners is to be finalized later this week when Jose Vidro joins the team as its full-time designated hitter.
No, but whatever.
“I think this is the best deal for me,” Vidro said in a telephone interview tonight from his home in Puerto Rico. “By me becoming the DH it will give me the chance to focus exclusively on my hitting and not have to worry about all that other stuff.”
So DH it is, which means the team’ll be paying him a ton of money to be a below-average DH. Broussard’s then the obvious next move.
Update: the hot rumor is that this also involved picking up Vidro’s 2009 option, which is a dingleberry topping on the shit frosting on today’s shit cake. Whee.
Server crash from overload of “WHAT THE ****!?” comments in at once… 5.. 4… 3… 2..
December 13th, 2006 at 5:16 pmPack it up. Throw out the tarp..let’s bring the bulldozers in here and turn this place into a parking lot.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:16 pmWhy. Is there a reason why? Why. Someone tell me why.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:17 pmDJAFKJ;LAEIKFJE;LKAEW UT;LIJAERBG JWAMNEI;OTAPOIJEW ;ILFNJAEW JHEW~~~~ NOOOOO LETS KILLJ BAVASI
IM GETTIN A HIT MAN RIGHT NOW…
FUCK LETS BOMB THE DAMN SFAFE. ANEYTHING!!!! JJKLDJFA;EKJF;LAEJF;JAEKJF;LAKJEF;LA!!!!!!!
December 13th, 2006 at 5:17 pmyeah, this is no good
December 13th, 2006 at 5:18 pmjust cuz
December 13th, 2006 at 5:18 pmI can’t wait to see who Bavasi gets for Lopez!
December 13th, 2006 at 5:19 pmVidro says this about the M’s:
Some pitchers?
The same article describes Snelling as a “prospect”.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:19 pmI’m not a huge fan of 2B who are over 30. This is looking more and more like Pat Gillick is at the helm…
December 13th, 2006 at 5:19 pmI seriously think Corco has lost it
December 13th, 2006 at 5:19 pmDerek, your thoughts on this trade.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:19 pmI need reasons. Come on, somebody smart who understands the M’s motives for this….What the heck is going on?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:20 pmThis is even more incompetent than the Soriano trade. > My seven year-old could make better deals.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:20 pmOK. There has to be something rational. This can’t be right.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:20 pmIf this is really true…I quit.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:21 pmBut hey, look on the bright side — the M’s only have to pay $12 million of the $16 million left on Vidro’s contract for the next two years.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:21 pmI seriously think Corco has lost it
Just be thankful he’s not drunk again. Or is he?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:21 pmCarl Everett is as good a DH as Vidro.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:21 pmMaybe Bill has a trade in the works that sends Sexson and Vidro to Ra in exchange for everlasting life.
That cad!
December 13th, 2006 at 5:21 pmNot drunk, just coked up.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:22 pmkill me
December 13th, 2006 at 5:22 pmWow…
They really are sticklers for that “no walks” policy for our batters
December 13th, 2006 at 5:22 pmI had a feeling they weren’t going to give Snelling playing time after the Bloomquist extension and the Jose Guillen signing. But I didn’t think they were stupid enough to actually trade him, for crying out loud. I hope he gets a lot of at-bats this year and feasts on that juicy NL pitching.
Anyway - why in hell would we need a second baseman? I cant imagine what goes on in Bavasi’s head. How will they even attempt to explain this as improving the team? I know it’s been said before already, but seriously - WHAT THE F***?!?
All we can hope for now is to lose so many games in April and May that the whole management crew is fired before the all-star break.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:23 pmAh yes, Corco you dog. Hitting the nose candy again before jumping on the keyboard to trade cannonballs with the U.S.S. Mariner eh?
I wish I’d thought of that.
Seriously though, fuck Bill Bavasi
December 13th, 2006 at 5:24 pmHUH?!? The reasoning behind this being?!? No trust in Betancourt and/or Lopez? Another deal in the works? Maybe Beltre? Needed the additional 3rd (and apparently EXPENSIVE) infielder to replace someone who will soon be departing? Any concerns that Betancourt may be deported or something?
Can 1 of Lopez, Betancourt or Vidro play 3rd?
This is baffling. As has been the rest of the recent moves this off-season. I don’t understand it.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:25 pmAlthough Vidro has an excellent career avg. for a second baseman and a pretty good OBP. Hmmmm. I must think about this.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:25 pmCan’t wait for the spin on this one:
Vidro: Former All-Star! Can tutor Lopez. Former All-Star!
December 13th, 2006 at 5:26 pmSnelling: Too injury prone, clears OF logjam w/ Bloomquist & Morse
Fruto: Sucked during his call-up; we have too many relievers anyway
OK. I’ve calmed down a little bit. That said, I still really want to kill something.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:26 pmHopefully Vidro will just split time with Broussard at DH, and this isn’t a sign of an impending Lopez trade.
None of these moves are shocking me this offseason. You have to consider who the “trigger puller” is.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:26 pmThink this has something to do with the Betancourt news?
I’m not saying it does, but I don’t know why else they would even have interest in Vidro.
Time to move to the other Washington…
December 13th, 2006 at 5:28 pmGo Nats.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:28 pmNow I’m really sad. I just, I’m sad. I’m sad that there are people in our society as stupid as Bill Bavasi.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:30 pmA wine-drunk hobo with mild retardation and no working knowledge of major league baseball could make a better trade than this. It’s unfathomable. This HAS GOT to be part of a series of deals. It just don’t make any sense otherwise.
Then again, neither did the Soriano deal.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:30 pmWell, if this move to Scottsdale goes through, I think I just root for the D-Backs until somebody with a brain is running the M’s.
Please, somebody, go bribe the team physician . . .
December 13th, 2006 at 5:30 pmI’m numb to the Ms……
December 13th, 2006 at 5:30 pmwho is gonna start up firebillbavasi.com?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:31 pmnever mind, it’s already up
December 13th, 2006 at 5:32 pmI don’t know. I can’t be a fan anymore. But I have to be. Thanks for putting me in this shitty place, Bill.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:33 pmThe talent going the otherway isn’t that bad…but what are they gonna do with Vidro? Don’t they already have Jose Lopez? Neither will play short, right? And Vidro better not be DH….you can get Carlos Pena or something for like 1.5 million to be a better DH.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:33 pmSnelling has done nothing to show he will be a great player for anyone in the future…I think he could probably be an ok dh but don’t think he will ever stay healthy enough to be a real good of asset. He is a pretty good walker but doesn’t have plus power… Would you sign Jose Vidro to a 2 yr free agent contract? I would… I need to wait and see what the other shoe is to drop (Lopez/Sexson blockbuster?)before I pass judgement.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:35 pmI bet money Vidro is the DH. And that’s the problem.
And the talent was too much. It’s not even that Snelling is in the deal. I’d be pissed if we swapped Fruto straight up for Vidro.
Vidro is PTBNL material, especially if we’re taking on salary.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:35 pmAt least you guys don’t have the Orioles management.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:36 pmYou would sign Vidro to a 2-year contract? Really?
Really?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:36 pmI say, emergency USSM feed. Talk about ways to blackmail or get Bill out of his job because he’s ruining this team!
December 13th, 2006 at 5:36 pmJose Vidro is not a good baseball player.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:36 pmmaybe bill just wants to have his players go up the ladder of pay roll?
One guy for 1 million one for 2 million etc.
Well he already has 10, 14 and 12 in the hopper.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:36 pmI’m afraid, very afraid of the next 48 hrs….
This is shit that is still felt five years into the future….
December 13th, 2006 at 5:37 pmWow.
Just… wow.
You know what I wish? I wish that great baseball writers and bloggers like the three of you here and Jeff over at Lookout Landing were all… in Oakland. Or Boston. Or Milwaukee (well, I don’t wish Milwaukee on you lot). But your talents and fandom are wasted here in Seattle. I love this city, but… wow.
Wow.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:37 pmDidn’t Vidro play a little at first at some point in his career?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:38 pmridiculous… I don’t even know what to say right now… Vidro doesn’t help us out in the present of future… Snelling if not in the present would of definately helped us out in the future… A totally dumb trade… I am also afraid to see what trade is coming up next
December 13th, 2006 at 5:38 pmThese are the times when you don’t know whether to kick something or cry, and are therefore stuck in-between emotions. It’s a weird feeling.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:38 pmHas it occurred to anyone that maybe Vidro and Guillen are good buddies and they’re gonna take up the leadership slack in the clubhouse left after the departure of C-Rex? Cause I’m afraid that’s the way these Mariner “baseball minds” are thinking. Nothing like a little veteran leadership, and who needs young players anyway? They just make mistakes……
December 13th, 2006 at 5:39 pmThis has got to be a joke. Are the Mariners now going to move Lopez, their young All-Star shortstop with upside, to play the 31-year old injury prone Vidro?
Just when you thought that Bavasi couldn’t do anything stupider than the Soriano trade, he tops himself.
Bavasi is obviously making desperation moves in order to save his own job. If he blows up the Mariners in the process, so be it.
Bill Bavasi is definitely teh suck.
Maybe, USS Mariner should change it name to … USS Titantic.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:39 pmhow are they wasted?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:39 pmcorrection: should be USS Titanic.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:41 pmI predict that Asdrubal Cabrera, Chris Snelling and, wait for it, Gil Meche have break-out seasons in 2007 (Maybe 2008 for Cabrera)
Just wait and see
December 13th, 2006 at 5:41 pmNo fucking way.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:42 pmSnelling has done nothing to show he will be a great player for anyone in the future
That’s Hargrove-think.
You don’t need greatness; you need goodness that’s cheap. And his OBP and above average slugging (not star level) was both good and cheap.
His health is a question, but that wouldn’t dictate a trade.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:44 pmI can’t figure out why this trade makes any sense… Sure Snelling is injury prone but so is Vidro… No wonder we are always stuck looking for left handed pop it’s cause we trade all of it away… Who can Vidro help us this season? Play 2nd no thanks rather have Lopez… DH? No thanks Broussard is very capable of handling the job, just as Snelling would have been… Maybe Vidro is that platoon player they were looking to platoon with Broussard at DH this move just makes zero sense everyway you look at it… Plus just added 12 mil to payroll for the next 2 years… Thanks Bill for ruining this organization
December 13th, 2006 at 5:44 pmi take that back about the talent. fruto has some upside.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:45 pmVidro might be a DH/2b/1b/3b guy..with most ab’s at DH, saving his legs…this is probably a plus for the 2007 M’s…maybe not the future though….How in the world is Vidro not a good baseball player? He might be trending down but his career line is 301/363/459 that is pretty awesome for any player.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:45 pmMr. Bavasi, a Mr. Billy Beane is on the other line. Wants to talk about that Jeremy Reed guy. He says he’s got some players you’re REALLY going to love…
December 13th, 2006 at 5:45 pmThis isn’t true. The Washington Post is not a reliable media source!
Um, right?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:46 pmClearly someone has stolen Bavasi’s logon creds for MLBs real-life version of Sportsline’s fantasy commissioner software.
logged in as: BaldBill37
You have pending trade offers for review.
Nats (BigBowie14) offers: Vidro, Jose for Snelling, Chris and Fruto, E.
Do you want to?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:46 pm-Accept
-Reject
-Evaluate
This is definitely a prelude to a major trade(Sexson or Beltre) with the last piece needed being Lopez. Look for a + starter and a slugging outfielder coming our way.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:47 pmsee, now, my mental headline was Fuckfuckfuckityfuck.
Glasgow on KOMO mentioned that this report was coming from Vidro, and could only assume that Vidro was to be the DH due to his collapsing knees.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:48 pmI just can’t believe that. I truly think he’s our DH next year.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:49 pmSo we got Vidro so Broussard can sit on the bench? What makes bonehead bob think Vidro will be more productive then Broussard this year or that Snelling would have been… Also, with the trading of Soriano I am sure Fruto would of been a decent piece for the bullpen this year… He really is digging this organization deeper and deeper into misery
December 13th, 2006 at 5:51 pmSince 1999 Vidro’s worst combined stats and best combined stats (any year mismatched)
Worst 275/339/395
Best 330/397/540
How does this guy suck….that is a bizarre non-sensical statemnt!
December 13th, 2006 at 5:51 pmGlasgow vamped for the news with talk of a trade rumor, and I was happily thinking finally, Sexson. Feh.
(btw, I was also having an additional minor coronary as I couldn’t get the laptop to turn back on so that I could vent due to ‘fan error’. anyone have a reliable laptop repair guy?)
December 13th, 2006 at 5:52 pmAttempt to rationalize:
Fruto’s got enough control problems that he might not be an asset in the ‘pen even if he costs the minimum.
Snelling is such an injury risk that you can’t expect more than 100 AB out of him in any given season.
Vidro provides depth in the middle infield?
Now, suspending reality for a second and pretending that I believe these things (which I don’t), I still don’t see how this makes sense. Didn’t anyone in the Mariners’ organization notice last year when Jose Lopez was on the freakin’ All-Star team? Now granted, I don’t think that he’s the best second baseman in the AL, and he had a pretty bad second half, but still–for the minimum, he was carrying his weight and his first half showed his potential to be a very useful player. Lopez wasn’t/isn’t in need of replacement. Vidro has no place on this team. Just on that alone–there wouldn’t really be any reason to pick up his current contract even if you didn’t give up any players to do so.
There have to be more moves. No one is this silly. Dave has said before that when the Mariners do something that initially seems very confusing there almost always turns out to be a very good reason behind it. I guess I’ll hope for that.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:52 pm#2 on Jose Vidro’s list of most comparable batters through age 31: Jeff Cirillo. #1 is Carlos Baerga, #3 is Bill Madlock. I hope he turns into Bill Madlock and not Cirillo.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:54 pmWell, time to start drinking. Heavily.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:54 pmI’ve felt for a long time that Bavasi was the best GM Lincoln might hire (and I mean that in the nicest way to Bavasi possible), and that in a lot of ways, we’ve been lucky to get him, because the organization as a whole is a lot better off today than it was a couple years ago.-Derek Zumsteg
Mr. Zumsteg, please reconsider your stance on Bavasi. There’s no Pat Gillick to blame this time around to blame. Jose Vidro sure isn’t a local boy from the Pacific Northwest. Which leaves us to draw the most intelligent conclusion that Bavasi is a madman. He’s an incompetent stupid General Manager and his detractors were right all along.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:54 pmWHAT THE??? Vidro isn’t a bad option at 2nd, but we could’ve signed Giles and gotten a similar player. That is if we needed a 2nd baseman
December 13th, 2006 at 5:54 pmHowever, I believe Dave said this before the Soriano trade.
Sigh.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:55 pmYep guillen was a great signing…. I give you Snelling’s ticket out of town…
Instead of aging, expensive farts, these are the kinds of players I’d be stockpiling:
2007: .314/.390/.529 EqA: .310
2008: .311/.389/.524 EqA: .309
2009: .309/.391/.527 EqA: .311
2010: .313/.394/.539 EqA: .315
If only the Ms had just one guy who was major league ready and might be expected to do that for cheap…. People need to chill. We’re being too hard on Bavasi-where is he supposed to get mythical guys like someone who could do the above?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:56 pmHey we are stockpiling talent for now people!! 117 wins here we come!!!!**
**Over the next 3 years
December 13th, 2006 at 5:57 pmHere’s part of why you can’t go through Vidro’s career and randomly pick out some lines: he’s not that player any more. He’s got bum knees and his hamstring started to slow him seriously last year. He’s not the same hitter he was at 27 when he put up that sweet .315/.378/.490 line and he’s not the same defender either.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:58 pmThis is the type of deal that should cause Bavasi to double-lock all his doors at night, and hire a couple bodyguards to watch his back.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:58 pmThat’s it. No longer following this team. I’ve had it.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:58 pm77, how are we being too hard on him? We traded a useful player and a potential decent bullpen arm for a guy who, while hitting well a few years prior, is in a bit of a decline and has injury problems. And plays the same position as one of our few young, good players. Meaning he’ll either DH (where we have similar, cheaper options) or Lopez is gone. Are either of those good scenarios, really?
December 13th, 2006 at 5:59 pmNo one said Vidro sucks. But we’re paying him $6 million a year to replace 2 cheap players — Snelling and Lopez — each of whom is a better hitter than Vidro. I don’t understand the logic to that.
Vidro used to have power, but it seems to be gone. He has never had speed. He used to be a very high OBP guy but it has declined substantially the last couple years (probably because of injuries). An awful lot of his OBP is batting average because he doesn’t walk that much. He is not a great glove man at 2B.
From 1999 to 2004 he was a very productive hitter, but now he’s just average. Nothing special.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:59 pm#73–Well, time to start drinking. Heavily.
I just cracked the first post-implant alcohol.
and I want my Chris Antonetti t-shirt for opening day.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:59 pmHe might be trending down but his career line is 301/363/459 that is pretty awesome for any player.
No, no it’s not. AL average at DH last year: .264/.349/.469. So Vidro maybe gives you slightly more OBP, but you lose a lot of power to get that OBP. At best, Vidro is an average DH. Snelling hit .250/.360/.427 last season and was forecasted by PECOTA at .305/.384/.503. If Vidro and Snelling were both sitting on the end of the bench, Snelling would be the better choice at DH. But to completely give up Snelling and Fruto just to pick Vidro over Snelling? Which way to the bar again?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:00 pm70, msb. Holy shit. I have the EXACT same problem with my laptop. started 2 days ago. Let me know what you plan on doing about it. BTW, mines an IBM thinkpad.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:01 pmCareer average means nothing with Vidro, because he’s on the downslide of that career. His best years are behind him and he’s almost certain to underperform his career average.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:02 pmMaybe this free’s up Jose Lopez to trade for a RP like Mike Stanton to take over Soriano’s hole in the bullpen?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:03 pmLopez for…?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:03 pmI think 75 brings up a good point, why not pick up a younger Giles for half the cost, and keep Snelling and Fruto, when the only big difference between Vidro and Giles is their BA
December 13th, 2006 at 6:05 pm88: Normally I’d laugh my *** off but dont say those things…could actually happen
December 13th, 2006 at 6:05 pmThere is not one fucking rationalization anyone can construct that makes this deal make sense.
No. Just fucking no.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:06 pmIf it’s not Mike Stanton, I have a feeling one of Royce Clayton, Matthew Lecroy, or Wiki Gonzalez might be coming our way.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:06 pmHey! We got to pick up Vidro’s 09 option too!
December 13th, 2006 at 6:07 pmAll ex-Nat free agents?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:08 pmAnyone else having the problem of saying appropriate things right now on this board…so the cops don’t show up at your door for threatening someone with the name that rhymes with Mavasi?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:08 pmIt’s like watching someone you love being slowly tortured to death in front of your eyes, and there’s not a god damned thing you can do about it. Fuck Bill Bavasi!
December 13th, 2006 at 6:08 pmsooo anybody meet me at seatac tomorrow? make it so vidro can’t pass physical?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:10 pmSweet. 3 years instead of 2. Its like getting kicked in the nuts twice by a guy wearing sneakers, then he puts on a steel toe boot and kicks a third time.
I just don’t grok what has happened in the past two weeks. Seriously. WTF Bill.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:10 pmMr. Bill must have been watching those Old Navy ‘Fleece’ commercials. ‘Cause that’s just what happened. What a joke of a GM he’s turned out to be.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:10 pmI’m going to boo Vidro whenever he gets up to bat.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:10 pmCareer average means nothing with Vidro, because he’s on the downslide of that career. His best years are behind him and he’s almost certain to underperform his career average.
I was trying to give Vidro the benefit of the doubt. Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt, and suppose that he can hit for his career average next year, this looks bad. More “fun”:
.273/.344/.396 — Vidro’s PECOTA weighted mean forecast for 2006
December 13th, 2006 at 6:10 pm.289/.348/.395 — Vidro’s actual 2006
.272/.346/.393 — Vidro’s 2007 line from last year’s PECOTA
For what it’s worth:
December 13th, 2006 at 6:11 pmI was an intern at a local TV station in DC this summer, and I spent a lot of time in the Nationals locker room after games. I know baseball players usually do not have the most defined bodies, but seeing Jose Vidro almost made me laugh. The man’s body is not just out of shape, he had man-boobs. I couldn’t believe it, he didn’t seem like he could be a good professional athlete. And before you start the rumors, I am straight. You just notice when someone you aspire towards totally changes your preconceptions.
you don;t have to trade for someone like Stanton.
#86– mine as well. it doesn’t do it if I leave it on constantly
I’ve never had to deal with something like this before, which is why I was hoping someone knew someone who’d take a look and not act like it was a Ford transmission getting ready to die …
December 13th, 2006 at 6:11 pmBill Bavasi is obviously trying his hardest to earn the title of “Dumbest GM in Baseball.”
This about says it all:
Jim Bowden > Bill Bavasi
You go, Bill!
December 13th, 2006 at 6:12 pmWell my 2 friends, who are at my house, just happen to be huge Mariners/Doyle fans.
and they also happen to have a massive quantity of cheap cheap wine.
I think I might have a plan…
December 13th, 2006 at 6:12 pm#103– how can you not notice man-boobs?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:13 pmI wish they announced Bill Bavasi when the do the lineups…then at least we could boo the guy…I guess 40 signs against management hanging around Safeco will be fun too
December 13th, 2006 at 6:13 pmI’m stuck down here in Florida ATM, but I’m giving a BIG (I’m talking case here) toast to Doyle. I hope he excels, and becomes the topic of discussion on ESPN for the next 10 years everytime ‘Dumb Trades’ comes up.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:15 pmWell, no one can complain that they’re not adding salary.
So THIS is what it feels like to be owned by Jim Bowden.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:15 pmhmm. on the next KOMO sports update Glasgow doesn’t sound like he gets this one either, and the way he’s stressing it, he’s hoping for Vidro to fail the physical.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:16 pmI was just trying to cover my bases. But seriously, with his body, I’m not surprised he has had knee problems. I think we would all agree that as an athlete ages his physical condition becomes more important (see: Julio Franco), and it just seems to me that Vidro’s condition is going to hamper him even more.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:16 pmOmar Vizquel for the save!
One can only hope on that physical.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:16 pmWow - 113+ comments in the hour this has been up
December 13th, 2006 at 6:17 pmTake me out to the barn shed…take me out with a bat
Buy me a taser and pellet gun, I promise you a certain GM wont be back
For its root root root for a new GM…Because the M’s wont win cause of him
So its One (SMACK), two (ZZZT), three (POP) strikes you’re gone thanks to the USSM angry fans!!
December 13th, 2006 at 6:17 pmSomeone stop the bleeding before the Mariners flatline.
__^__^__^_____________
December 13th, 2006 at 6:18 pmBetween Vidro and Snelling, our odds of the physical failing have got to be pretty high.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:19 pmSo, in less than the space of a year, Jim Bowden has been able to turn Bill Bray, Gary Majewski, and Jose Vidro into Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez, Chris Snelling, and Emiliano Fruto. That’s impressive.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:20 pmAre modeling ourselves after the San Francisco Giants?
(man boobs?)
December 13th, 2006 at 6:21 pmYou know what surprises me? Jim Bowden did this deal. JIM BOWDEN.
Someone please convince me our GM wasn’t killed sometime last year and replaced with Cam Bonifay in a Bill Bavasi suit.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:21 pmSo, what team should I start rooting for?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:24 pmWhat’s the M’s fan response e-mail address again? Let’s fill that shit up.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:24 pmwell if you can’t sign an arm for the rotation with street cred, why not plug the gaping hole in your middle infield by trading for a position player with street cred?
Its an awesome move too….the Ms didn’t lose out on the hired guns because they didn’t want to spend…this proves it, they’re willing to take on payroll…
we should be overjoyed…. chill people….chill….woohooo….
December 13th, 2006 at 6:24 pmMaybe Bavasi knows he is out at the end of the year anyway, so he’s doing everything he can to blow up anything and everything good about this team. Jim Bowden is outsmarting Bavasi? What is going on here?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:24 pm121: I’m liking the Nats, actually.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:25 pmLet’s say that we have a deal on the table that would allow us to move Lopez for some young stud pitcher, let’s just assume that. It still doesn’t make a damn lick of sense to make this deal, you can go out and pick up Marcus Giles for a hell of a lot less money, or some retread of the heap to play 2nd and keep Snelling and Fruto. Instead you sink how many millions down the hole that is Vidro. Why? Because we need an “established” 2nd baseman?
WTF!
December 13th, 2006 at 6:25 pmRotoworld:
Can’t someone fire Bill Bavasi before he does anymore damage? The Mariners are taking on $12 million of the $16 million Vidro is owed over the next two years, which would be reasonable if Vidro still happened to be a quality defensive second baseman. As is, the Mariners figure to DH him and keep Jose Lopez at second base. Vidro’s OPS has dropped four straight seasons, falling to 763 in 2005 and 744 last season. Also, he hasn’t remained healthy enough to get 500 at-bats since 2003. Snelling certainly had a realistic chance of being a better DH, and Fruto has a fair amount of upside as either a starter or a reliever. Amazingly enough, this is another winner for Nats GM Jim Bowden.
It’s possible the Mariners want Vidro to play second base over Jose Lopez, but it doesn’t seem very likely. Vidro would have a better chance of bouncing back offensively as a DH, and he’s a weaker defender than Lopez at this point of his career. The Orioles have inquired about Broussard and still could acquire him, though the Mariners may not have any interest in Rodrigo Lopez.
Not only are the Mariners taking on $12 million of Jose Vidro’s $16 million salary for the next two years, they’re also going to give him a vesting option for 2009 to make up for him waiving his no-trade clause. It just keeps getting better. At least the Mariners didn’t give up talent when they brought in Carl Everett to DH last season. The trade sending Vidro to Seattle for Chris Snelling and Emiliano Fruto is set to be officially announced on Thursday.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:25 pmI’m not sure what to do. This kind of thing is just breaking my heart. Why not run the future of the team into the ground for no reason at all? Why do we need Vidro anyway? We already have an infield.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:25 pmMarcus Giles> Jose Vidro
December 13th, 2006 at 6:29 pmMarcus Giles has had more playoff appearances than Jose Vidro.
does Bill maybe know that he is going to get the GM job in DC in ‘08?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:29 pmFWIW…the deal was done during the Winter Meetings but just got announced because Vidro had to ‘ok’ it..that makes me wonder even more now…this was an ‘old’ deal..didnt just happen today
December 13th, 2006 at 6:29 pmI think this might be the last straw. Snelling and Lopez were most of the reason I was interested in watching the Mariners next year. I mean, I can put up with Hargrove for another year, fine. But trading away or benching all the promising young players on the team in exchange for aging, mediocre veterans?
Ugh.
Talk to me in 2012 or so. Maybe they’ll get a decent GM, tear down, and be getting fun to watch again by then…
December 13th, 2006 at 6:29 pmI forget..the taxpayers built Safeco right? If so, lets take it back..kinda like taking a toy away from a kid for abusing it
December 13th, 2006 at 6:32 pmOK I AM GOING TO TRY AND REMAIN CALM….. OK IT ISNT GOING TO WORK. Does anyone know where Bavasi lives? I know my way around the Seattle area pretty well…. anyone got a truck and some rope. This just doesn’t make sense. why? i dont understand. Is this a joke like when we tried trading Carlos straight across for Omar (even though that would have turned out better than what eventually happened). I don’t want to live.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:32 pmI am in physical pain. Seriously. Why do I allow myself to care so much?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:33 pmJose Vidro? Why not Jose Offerman?
It’s ugly clear that, like the Angels, the M’s will never rise until Bavasi packs his bags.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:33 pmCan’t we just accept reality? We’re that team. You know, the one that everyone laughs at behind their back and just hopes they can get into trade talks with. It has to somebody. And right, now, its us.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:35 pmVidro was a really excellent player when the Expos were still in Montreal. The problem is his health. His knees just won’t allow him to stay in the lineup, and his body as a whole is breaking down. He might get a bit of a boost not having to turn the pivot, but yeah, tough to project him to be more than an adequate DH at this point.
He’s not a bad egg like Crazy Carl btw. Crappy trade, but Vidro’s not the villain here. The guy worked his ass off to go from being a non-prospect in the low minors to an eventual All-Star.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:36 pmoh, we’re not making Jose the villain.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:37 pmDave, DMZ, JMB, et. al. (PDQ),
Serious question: supposing the USSM wet dream comes true and Antonetti takes the reins after 2007. Assuming the talent level among the AL West stays relatively constant, how many years does it take to pull this franchise out of the toilet? Are we looking at 2010 before the team is a playoff contender, or is that too pessimistic?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:37 pmIt’s not Jose. It’s Bavasi giving away the future.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:39 pmit’s going to longer & longer if they keep shipping away the talent.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:39 pmI like Jose Vidro. He’d be a neat guy to bring in on a cheap incentive laden one year deal to be the utility infielder/bench bat.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:40 pmwhy not plug the gaping hole in your middle infield by trading for a position player with street cred?
WHAT gaping hole? Lopez is a decent glove with pop in his bat. Vidro WAS a good glove with a little bit of pop, now he’s in decline. Lopez cost about $400K. Vidro will cost 20 times that.
Again, WHAT gaping hole? The gaping hole is in the #2 starter spot.
they’re willing to take on payroll…
They’re willing to be a payroll SINK. Like the Rockies have been with countless players over the last ten years (Charles Johnson anyone?) You don’t win this way.
EC, you were right, I was wrong. Bavasi should have been drop-kicked last summer.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:40 pmThis is just really strange. I don’t get it - I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of a trade that literally didn’t make any sense whatsoever. It just really doesn’t. I can’t think of any reason for the trade. None. At least the Carlos Guillen trade had that BS “he parties too much” excuse. At least there was something.
The Mariners are giving up two promising prospects to DOWNGRADE a position that is filled with an established, promising player. An young All-Star.
I’m just boggled.
Gonna go lift to blow off steam. Holy crap. I haven’t been so worked up on a trade in since Tom Chambers was traded.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:42 pmI just called the Mariners season ticket hotline and just lamented for a while (206) 346-4287 Didn’t make me feel a whole lot better, but a little bit. This is a great site, but the team is breaking my heart.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:43 pmSince none of the moves made by Seattle has made any sense so far, I am just hoping that this is all a build-up to some big nice surprise… but again, thats being waaaaaay to optimistic
December 13th, 2006 at 6:43 pmSigh. Tomorrow I’m removing my “Seattle Mariners” license plate frames from my car. I wouldn’t want Cubs and Sox fans to start laughing and cause an accident.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:43 pmOK, here is the reason…simple really. #1 rule of pro baseball, never trust your future to a rookie. Sweet Lou, Grover and Billy Bavasi all believe in the Rule. Snelling may be superior, he may be the future but Grover and Billy B have no future, ergo, drop kick Doyle (and God bless him getting to start and hit .340 next year) and get…wait for it….”Gritty Veteran”. Simple and that’s all their is to it. (What ever I misspelled is the fault of a certain Mr. James Beam.)
December 13th, 2006 at 6:44 pmWhats ther over/under on Vidro landing on the DL next season?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:46 pmdoes anyone else REALLY wish we just re-signed gil meche for 5 yrs/$55mil and called in an offseason?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:48 pm#150: Do you know what “over/under” means?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:49 pmheck, maybe i’d take joel pineiro for 4 yrs/$67mil too.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:49 pmHere’s fun activity for Mariner fans. You can rank all the GMs in baseball from 1 to 30 on ESPN.
I wonder where Bavasi will rank.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:50 pm154: I don’t like that one. Bavasi is about the 39th best GM in Major League baseball.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:51 pm#148: I wouldn’t want Cubs and Sox fans to start laughing and cause an accident.
Too late, they’ve already started. Quote from SoSH: I was wondering why USS Mariner wasn’t loading. We crash over Matsuzka and they crash over Vidro. I like being a Sox fan.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:51 pmAt least I’ll wake up from this terrible nightmare soon… it is a nightmare right?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:51 pm152: yes….I say 60 games
December 13th, 2006 at 6:52 pm156: they think we are happy about Vidro?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:53 pm#158: You can have an over/under for the number of games Mr. Vidro plays. You cannot have an over/under for “Vidro landing on the DL next season.”
December 13th, 2006 at 6:53 pm#159: The point would be, they crash their server over good news.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:55 pmWhat game Vidro lands on the DL…whatever…you get the point..roll with it…don’t be a “bavasi”…ooh, thats a new one..I should start using that
December 13th, 2006 at 6:55 pmOk Ok, after that terrible Soriano trade I’m just now waking up from my alcohol induced coma…Have i missed anything?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:55 pmI emailed. I am waiting in breathless anticipation of the same ‘thank you for your email’ letter I got last year.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:55 pm161: Thats so sad…but true
December 13th, 2006 at 6:55 pmNot saying signing Zito would be the best move necessarily, especially with the Prince of Darkness as his agent. But if you’re going to spend 15 or so million, wouldn’t it be better served on Barry than Batista and Vidro?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:56 pmDetailed analysis of this trade over at Baseball Prospectus’ new blog:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=92
December 13th, 2006 at 7:00 pmI can’t wait to see how they even ATTEMPT to justify this trade.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:00 pmhey now, come on. lets see the glass as half full. lets take a look at the positives here:
.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:01 pmThis deal must be to make the switch-hitting Vidro a fulltime DH. My guess is Broussard gets moved for a starting pitcher. That’s why they tendered him. My guess, admittedly a shot in the dark, is he goes to Baltimore for 22-yo righthander Hayden Penn.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:01 pmHey, dw? You know our ongioing argument about Bavasi?
This isn’t how I wanted to win it.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:01 pmI am starting to miss Gillick.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:29 pmBavasi=Gillick?
December 13th, 2006 at 7:35 pmGillick>Bavasi.
I think Bavasi’s really trying to hamstring this club in preparation for his next job.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:36 pmMotherfucking goddamnit.
“Hey Bill, wanna trade Felix for Mark Redman?”
December 13th, 2006 at 7:38 pm“Well…”
“Mark IS an All-Star.”
“Hmmmm… ok, I’ll throw in Betancourt, too. Will that work?”
“Sure, thanks Bill!”
Bill Bavasi just called. He said he punched a hole through my chest. I looked down and sure enough . . . *thud*
December 13th, 2006 at 7:39 pm#169: the silver lining is that every move Bavasi is making ensures we will suck next year, and that the Ms will have a new GM by this time next year.
The other GMs must have been falling all over themselves to take Bavasi out for drinks in Orlando. What a complete and utter fool.
The only question now is, to paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, ‘Who is more foolish? The fool or the man who follows him?’
On that note, fellas, I’m off the bus. See you over at the SOSH blog.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:43 pm#177: The rusty lining is that we were predicting the exact same thing last season.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:46 pmI’m dumbstruck. I feel gut-punched. Why Snelling? Why?
December 13th, 2006 at 7:47 pmOk, I’ll bite. Is it possible Bavasi is spending this entire offseason tailoring to GB pitchers?
Vidro *might* be the intended defensive upgrade at 1st, pending a Sexon/Tim Hudson deal.
That would leave us with 4 GB pitchers and a lights out infield. Vidro is a plus at 1B, no? Is there any way that makes the 2007 M’s a contender?
December 13th, 2006 at 7:55 pmNo.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:56 pmI feel great sadness. Rooting for a sports team is inherently a frivolous emotional investment. We do it knowing that it won’t, in the end, really matter in our lives. We do, however, want to have hope in something. We want to anticipate the beginning of next season. We want to dream of greater glory to come.
Bill Bavasi has become the destroyer of hope. He mocks our dreams and
leaves us with bitter disappointment.
I have only one small spark of hope left - that the faceless people of the ownership group replace Bavasi sone day. Bavasi cannot crush this hope. So long as he is GM there is always the possibility he will be fired.
I will wait for this cold bleak Mariner winter to end and Bavasi to be gone. I will wait, and hope.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:56 pmI’d seriously like to see some positive out of the off season, but I really don’t think there is much anymore.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:57 pmF. F. F. F. F. F YOU MARINERS. F.
Ironically, in the paper today there was a chart showing BA’s ranking of organizations. We were 29th. The Nationals were 30th and last. I’ll bet those are swapped today.
GOD DAMN IT ALL TO HELL.
What a garbage ****bag of a piece of *** ****ing **** of a team this is.
I’ll bet we lose 100 games at least two of the next five seasons.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:57 pm172. Gillick brought us a 116 win team. Bavasi keeps trading plaers for lesser players or for nothing at all (as in the case of Randy Winn.)
December 13th, 2006 at 7:57 pmFYI, not endorsing the deal. Just trying to make some sense.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:58 pmFYI, I’m not endorsing the deal. Just trying to make some sense.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:58 pmMaybe this is like Ozymandias’ plan in “Watchmen”, trying to get the world united against a common enemy - in this case, Mariners GM Bill Bavasi.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:00 pmYa know, when I complained that cutting Joel loose gave us $6.5 million to sign Julio Franco or Gaylord Perry to a three-year deal, I WAS KIDDING, FUCKING KIDDING, OKAY BILL? And we didn’t even get Franco, we got his evil injury-prone, out-of-shape twin.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:01 pmBavasi won’t stop until we are the Royals.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:02 pmYou see what Randy Winn did in SF in 2006?
Neither did anybody else.
Winn for Foppert and Torrealba was a fine trade. This and the RamirezSoriano trade are just foolishness.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:10 pmI hear John Franco is available. He’d be a terrific long arm in the bullpen, or even a setup man.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:10 pmRE 177: I believe the quote was, “Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him?”
December 13th, 2006 at 8:12 pmall i can say is..
ugh…sigh…
December 13th, 2006 at 8:16 pmHere’s a hypothetical question: if for some reason Hargrove and Bavasi were in a fight to the death who would you root for?
December 13th, 2006 at 8:20 pmFolks lets take a swag and bet that Vidro never sets foot in Safeco, my bet is he ends up in Atlanta, LaRoche ends up in Seattle and our old 1st baseman ends up netting a starting pitcher. We end up trading Snelling and Fruto for LaRoche and Sexson for hopefully a young stud arm (ie: one of SF’s youg’ins)
December 13th, 2006 at 8:24 pm#195 - I root for Bavasi because I think Hargrove has been more consistantly senseless in his tenure here. But Bavasi’s last few moves has quickly closed the gap.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:29 pmI’d like to point out the new and improved campaign button on the left nav bar. Enjoy it while it lasts!
December 13th, 2006 at 8:38 pmIn other words Soriano, Snelling and Fruto for LaRoche and HoRam. Soriano for HoRam a bad deal for us, Vidro for LaRoche not great for Atlanta, blend it and I’m okay.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:38 pmOver/under;
December 13th, 2006 at 8:48 pmhow many games will Vidro make it into the season before getting DFA’d?
My guess, 80…
The article in the Times mentions that Vidro waived his no-trade clause to come here to DH, so I think you can stop wishing for another trade to happen, and start wishing for a failed physical.
December 13th, 2006 at 8:57 pmHey, dw? You know our ongioing argument about Bavasi?
This isn’t how I wanted to win it.
I feel like Lindbergh upon hearing the news of Pearl Harbor.
December 13th, 2006 at 9:00 pmFucking Hell.
December 13th, 2006 at 9:01 pmBillBavasi.com
I RULE.
December 13th, 2006 at 9:05 pmI have no words.
December 13th, 2006 at 9:08 pmYeah I do.
Last week I was knocking the overreaction that everybody had for the Soriano / Ramirez trade. I still think that trade wasn’t worth all the damn misery. I wasn’t defending Bavasi, I was just trying to push back the ab