Comments on: Tuesday’s baseball news and rumor http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/ Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:17:03 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Gomez http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-160112 Gomez Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:06:28 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-160112 <blockquote>Remember when he was a bad clubhouse guy and needed to be run out of town at any cost?</blockquote> That was muchas cervezas ago. The Detroit Guillen is a kinder, gentler... soberer?... Guillen.

Remember when he was a bad clubhouse guy and needed to be run out of town at any cost?

That was muchas cervezas ago. The Detroit Guillen is a kinder, gentler… soberer?… Guillen.

]]> By: et_blankenship http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-159984 et_blankenship Wed, 20 Dec 2006 23:17:28 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-159984 #72 - Park effects need to be applied with a grain of salt in regards to OPS. Deep fences will have a more negative impact on a flyball hitter than it will on a linedrive hitter, who can actually benefit by having wider alleys and more room down the lines. Conversely, shorter fences will have a greater positive impact on a flyball hitter than it will for a linedrive hitter. Running a straight line average across every hitter who plays 50% of his games in Park X certainly helps paint a picture of general performance for each specific ballpark, but it’s not indicative of how Park X actually affected each specific hitter. It can only represent how Park X affected the average of all offense that occurred in that park without further consideration to things like quality of pitching, variables in fence dimensions, etc. For example, Yankee Stadium shows up as X% on the park effects chart, but X% doesn’t discriminate between its effects on left-handed hitters (positive) vs. right-handed hitters (negative). Between 1982 and 1988, Mattingly and Winfield each played 50% of their games at Yankee Stadium. The same ballpark had opposite effects on their performance, but BPF requires that both players have the same number applied. So by the time you take the disproportionate statistics from one ballpark, compare them to the disproportionate statistics generated by all of the other parks, and blanket every player in the league with those numbers, the end result is a compounded mess. #72 – Park effects need to be applied with a grain of salt in regards to OPS. Deep fences will have a more negative impact on a flyball hitter than it will on a linedrive hitter, who can actually benefit by having wider alleys and more room down the lines. Conversely, shorter fences will have a greater positive impact on a flyball hitter than it will for a linedrive hitter. Running a straight line average across every hitter who plays 50% of his games in Park X certainly helps paint a picture of general performance for each specific ballpark, but it’s not indicative of how Park X actually affected each specific hitter. It can only represent how Park X affected the average of all offense that occurred in that park without further consideration to things like quality of pitching, variables in fence dimensions, etc.

For example, Yankee Stadium shows up as X% on the park effects chart, but X% doesn’t discriminate between its effects on left-handed hitters (positive) vs. right-handed hitters (negative). Between 1982 and 1988, Mattingly and Winfield each played 50% of their games at Yankee Stadium. The same ballpark had opposite effects on their performance, but BPF requires that both players have the same number applied. So by the time you take the disproportionate statistics from one ballpark, compare them to the disproportionate statistics generated by all of the other parks, and blanket every player in the league with those numbers, the end result is a compounded mess.

]]> By: Choo http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-159979 Choo Wed, 20 Dec 2006 23:10:47 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-159979 #72 - Park effects need to be applied with a grain of salt in regards to OPS. Deep fences will have a more negative impact on a flyball hitter than it will on a linedrive hitter, who can actually benefit by having wider alleys and more room down the lines. Conversely, shorter fences will have a greater positive impact on a flyball hitter than it will for a linedrive hitter. Running a straight line average across every hitter who plays 50% of his games in Park X certainly helps paint a picture of general performance for each specific ballpark, but it’s not indicative of how Park X actually affected each specific hitter. It can only represent how Park X affected the average of all offense that occurred in that park without further consideration to things like quality of pitching, and more importantly, variables in fence dimensions. For example, Yankee Stadium shows up as X% on the park effects chart, but X% doesn’t discriminate between its effects on left-handed hitters (positive) vs. right-handed hitters (negative). Between 1982 and 1988, Mattingly and Winfield each played 50% of their games at Yankee Stadium. The same ballpark had opposite effects on their performance, but BPF requires that both players have the same number applied. So by the time you take those disproportionate numbers and compare them to the disproportionate numbers generated by other ballparks, the end result is a compounded mess. #72 – Park effects need to be applied with a grain of salt in regards to OPS. Deep fences will have a more negative impact on a flyball hitter than it will on a linedrive hitter, who can actually benefit by having wider alleys and more room down the lines. Conversely, shorter fences will have a greater positive impact on a flyball hitter than it will for a linedrive hitter. Running a straight line average across every hitter who plays 50% of his games in Park X certainly helps paint a picture of general performance for each specific ballpark, but it’s not indicative of how Park X actually affected each specific hitter. It can only represent how Park X affected the average of all offense that occurred in that park without further consideration to things like quality of pitching, and more importantly, variables in fence dimensions.

For example, Yankee Stadium shows up as X% on the park effects chart, but X% doesn’t discriminate between its effects on left-handed hitters (positive) vs. right-handed hitters (negative). Between 1982 and 1988, Mattingly and Winfield each played 50% of their games at Yankee Stadium. The same ballpark had opposite effects on their performance, but BPF requires that both players have the same number applied. So by the time you take those disproportionate numbers and compare them to the disproportionate numbers generated by other ballparks, the end result is a compounded mess.

]]> By: eponymous coward http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-159933 eponymous coward Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:49:55 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-159933 <i>So you are right. Guillen’s OPS wasn’t below average. It was almost exactly average, which made him replaceable all the same. Fellow light hitters Omar Vizquel and David Eckstein were each posting higher OPS during those years, while many of the shortstops with lower OPS brought other skills to the table, like speed/leadoff abilities, better defense, and/or a quiet nightlife that wasn’t interfering with the development of their top young arm.</i> Uh, keep in mind that you need to make a park adjustment there. If you look at OPS+ (adjusted for park), Guillen comes out better. So you are right. Guillen’s OPS wasn’t below average. It was almost exactly average, which made him replaceable all the same. Fellow light hitters Omar Vizquel and David Eckstein were each posting higher OPS during those years, while many of the shortstops with lower OPS brought other skills to the table, like speed/leadoff abilities, better defense, and/or a quiet nightlife that wasn’t interfering with the development of their top young arm.

Uh, keep in mind that you need to make a park adjustment there. If you look at OPS+ (adjusted for park), Guillen comes out better.

]]> By: Choo http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-159923 Choo Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:18:12 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-159923 #57 - I contorted and twisted? Remove the last bit about the white stuff, which was in reference to a previous post, and everything else is cold, hard, unspun fact. I didn't make up anything in relation to his OPS or the way he was perceived by others around the league at the time he was dealt. I know a lot of us saw potential in those long AB's he would have as a Mariner, but I'm tired of people pretending like they <em>knew</em> Guillen was going to blow up the way he did. His OPS jumped 200 points, almost magically - and he stayed healthy. Nobody saw that coming. #57 – I contorted and twisted? Remove the last bit about the white stuff, which was in reference to a previous post, and everything else is cold, hard, unspun fact. I didn’t make up anything in relation to his OPS or the way he was perceived by others around the league at the time he was dealt.

I know a lot of us saw potential in those long AB’s he would have as a Mariner, but I’m tired of people pretending like they knew Guillen was going to blow up the way he did. His OPS jumped 200 points, almost magically – and he stayed healthy. Nobody saw that coming.

]]> By: frenchonion http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-159922 frenchonion Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:12:59 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-159922 Didn't know about the Hep C thing....how'd he get it? Didn’t know about the Hep C thing….how’d he get it?

]]> By: bookbook http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-159921 bookbook Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:56:59 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-159921 Mickey did have Hepatitis C. It is unknown (unknowable?) how much of his liver failure should be attributed to the disease as opposed to the alcohol. Most of life isn't a clearcut morality play, it turns out. Mickey did have Hepatitis C. It is unknown (unknowable?) how much of his liver failure should be attributed to the disease as opposed to the alcohol.

Most of life isn’t a clearcut morality play, it turns out.

]]> By: terry http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-159920 terry Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:56:23 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-159920 I always thought he was traded because of health issues... I always thought he was traded because of health issues…

]]> By: frenchonion http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-159918 frenchonion Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:34:00 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-159918 Garcia and Guillen: When Mickey Mantle came up his drinking buddy was Billy Martin. The Yankee brass looked at that and decided that Billy was a bad influence and traded him. The irony is that it didn't really change anything -- Jim Bouton wrote about Micky's excessive drinking in Ball Four. Mickey's liver eventually failed him. Billy was killed as a passenger with a drunk driver. My perception at the time was that Guillen was traded because he enabling Garcia's partying. Maybe Garcia didn't need the help. Garcia and Guillen:

When Mickey Mantle came up his drinking buddy was Billy Martin. The Yankee brass looked at that and decided that Billy was a bad influence and traded him.

The irony is that it didn’t really change anything — Jim Bouton wrote about Micky’s excessive drinking in Ball Four. Mickey’s liver eventually failed him. Billy was killed as a passenger with a drunk driver.

My perception at the time was that Guillen was traded because he enabling Garcia’s partying. Maybe Garcia didn’t need the help.

]]> By: darrylzero http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/comment-page-2/#comment-159917 darrylzero Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:51:22 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2006/12/19/tuesdays-baseball-news-and-rumor/#comment-159917 Heh, BJB's JOB...nasty. Heh, BJB’s JOB…nasty.

]]>