M’s rumored to be interested in further self-harm
DMZ · January 8, 2007 at 7:40 am · Filed Under Mariners
In the form of Darin Erstad and, though they likely won’ get him, Brian Lawrence.
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Erstad might be ok off the bench but how many injured coner outfileders do we need?
Clearly a shot across the bow of the good ship Bloomquist, what with the grit and scrappiness. And out-making.
hmmm.
wait! ok, you sign Erstad to a one-year deal, you trade away Willie B (to eliminate that excess grit) and then let nature (and Erstad) take its course with an injury part-way into the season … Voila! Free at last!
and, for more self-inflicted damage, FSN is going to re-air three 2006 Mariner games, selected through an online vote.
Wow, at this point in his career, is Erstad any better than Jeremy Reed? If anything, don’t we need a RIGHT handed outfielder to sub for Ibanez?
How might one TRADE Willie Bloomquist? Who would want him? I guess if you packaged Bloomquist and $3M for a low A prospect with an ERA of 7+, you’d have a deal?
What’s the Brian Lawrence bit? I looked around and found some idle rumor but is there any more to it. Admittedly I know nothing about his injury, but that wouldn’t actually be so bad would it? I mean if it’s a one year deal and just a few million, isn’t he a bit of an upgrade on Woods and Baek?
Just when you think Bavasi can’t get any stupider. . .
I’m telling you, we need to root for this team to tank it completely this year at the box office and in the standings so we can actually get people fired and start over again.
I assume that Erstad would be more expensive than a Reed-Broussard combo with the added addition of being far less useful. While I doubt that either Reed or Broussard will be on the team, I would be happy with both on the bench.
Erstad hasn’t been able to hit in 4 years. No one should want him for more than a fifth outfielder.
This is such a predictable Bavasi move it’s not even funny. A former Angel, “playoff tested”, veteran grit, peaked 5 years ago, in long decline and coming off injury. Perfect.
Self-harm is my response to the idea of Darin Erstad, too.
I hear Raffy Palmiero wants back into baseball ….
Re 12… No no no… The next outfielder Bavasi is going to get is Steve Finley… ex Angel, Play-off experience, veteran grit…
Mark my words, Bavasi will try to trade for D. Anderson and T. Glaus soon, if he isn’t already begging.
I swear the Mariners are plagued by the past success of Bret Boone and Paul Abbott. They found these guys on the scrap heap and got lightning in a bottle. Now they think that is the preferred way to build your team: pay $.60 on the dollar and hope they have career years.
Looking at Erstad’s career I’m actually surprised at how terrible he’s been for how long. He really hasn’t been any good since 2000, when he was 26 years old.
I don’t see how he would replace Bloomquist, since (even best case for Erstad) he fills a completely different role. And it’s a role already filled by Broussard and Reed — lefthanded hitting 1B/OF with offensive question marks).
Has Bavasi ever heard the term “roster management”? Last year’s roster certainly suggests that he hasn’t.
Erstad is just a body. Not really gonna help.
I’m more intrigued by Lawrence, though. I saw they were one of two teams who have made an offer to him.
Do you have any more info on his potential? How about his injury?
If he’s breathing and has an arm I’m all for signing him and letting him at least try to make the team.
This is such a predictable Bavasi move it’s not even funny.
I agree. It’s so predictable I actually feel angry with myself for not having predicted it.
I wonder who would make a more effective 5th outfielder Choo or Erstad?
Check off the boxes
World Series Ring
Play-Off Experience
Gritty Veteran
Club-house guy
Costs more money
Hands down Erstad is a better investment than Choo. Now let’s not even bring up a comparison with Snelling…that would make me cry.
If the Lawrence contract offer is reasonable, I would not object to it. Prior to his injury riddled 2006, in which he did not pitch, he proved to be much better than anyone the M’s currently plan on using as their ‘07 fifth starter.
I’m not sure if any of you are aware of this, because no one ever talks about it, but Erstad played football in college.
His grit is completely of the chart.
Was not Erstad a punter? Most “regular” football players would dispute that punters have “grit.”
Oh, snap! Are you seriously questioning the grit of Darin Erstad? That man could scrape off your face with his chin stubble.
Yes but he was punter for the Cornhuskers. That’s probably grittier than a USC defensive lineman.
Would this be a good point for the USSM authors to issue individual posts explaining exactly why they’re Mariners fans? I can’t be the only person who’s starting to forget why he is.
You’d think that Erstad, assuming he can still run, would be a fantastic defensive replacement for Cement Shoes; and, in a perfect world, would force Gimpy Knees to the bench when Washburn pitches.
I sense self-esteem issues here. Er, make that self-esteem PROBLEMS! This team is getting older, slower, more expensive and just generally suckier (is that a word?). Why are we doing this? Come on Bill, 2002 was FIVE YEARS AGO! Give up the ghost! Start building for the future! Start building the NEXT version of the 2002 Angels to excited M’s fans instead of acquiring the actual 2002 Angels to frustrate them.
I’d be disappointed if the M’s weren’t at least considering Lawrence, but the fact that they’re also considering Erstad more than negates whatever mildly positive feelings I have about the Lawrence daliance.
I hear David Eckstein has done all right since 2002(high average, no power, a fair mount of runs scored when he plays). He is the model to which Bavasi makes these decisions …..aging ex Angels.
Well, i’d much rather sign Lawrence and Thomson than sign Reitsma and trade Soriano for Ramirez… thats just me though….
In fact, on days that Lawrence started, I’d let Sherrill play first and Sexson DH….everytime a lefty came up to bat, I’d switch Lawrence and Sherrill. When a righty came back up… I’d switch Lawrence back to to the mound and Sherrill back to first…
It could work…..really…..
Why is Bavasi so into the groundball thing? Is he admitting Washburn was a mistake? Also, with the hitting, how does having a bunch of guys who don’t strike out translate into runs? If that’s the philosophy, why is Big Richie still an M? Has there ever been a team built on the principles the M’s suddenly are extolling that won anything? Just looking for a silvering lining or some way to make sense of it all. Will there be counselors at Safeco to help M’s fans cope with the atrocities of this offseason? Has BB or HL earned the nickname ‘Caligula’?
#29 That is WILD!!! Has any team ever done that?
Of course, when you move the pitcher to first, you lose the DH.
I don’t know about losing the DH. Piniella once put Jeff Nelson in left-field for an at-batt to replace him with a situational lefty. After the at-batt, Nelson returned to the mound and the other pitcher was replaced by the backup outfielder.
Erstad by himself in the right role isn’t a bad idea, since as a defensive OF/1B he’d surely be an upgrade on Rauuuuuuul. I’d rather see him as the backup OF than Morse or Willie.
I suspect it all comes down to his health and how he’s acquired- if it’s a 3 year, 25 million dollar deal, of course it’s stupid.
As for Brian Lawrence- I guess Bavasi has a thing for injured Nationals players?
somebody outta install quicktags or something to make posting easier…
On a serious note for a sec….why wasn’t Soriano for Lieber ever discussed as an option to Soriano-ramirez? Atleast I don’t remember reading about those discussions being leaked.
The Ms undervalued Soriano based upon what they perceived couldn’t do and apparently over-valued Ramirez by overlooking that he likely couldn’t do the same thing…. Despite his age, Lieber has a much greater chance of putting up 150 innings that are at least league average. Are the Ms so strapped that $5M makes a potential trade out of the question?
So because the Mariners are mentioned in rumors with 4 other teams for Erstad, it means they’re going to sign him?
I couldn’t resist looking up the Jeff Nelson in left field game at retrosheet.
Indeed, when Nelson went to left field, he replaced (or displaced) the DH while Dennis Powell (relief pitcher) replaced the left fielder.
The game is also notable for an appearance of one Bob Melvin.
#31, The White Rat did something similar with Ken Dayley and Todd Worrell in the late 80’s. Late in games with a slim lead Herzog would sometimes move Worrell to right field while Dayley would pitch to a lefty coming up to bat. Then Worrell would come back to the mound to face the next righty. Of course this was in the N/L with no D/H….
#14- You are right on. This FO always wants to catch lightning in a bottle. Sign a bunch of previously injured players for less than market value and hope they recapture the past. Instead of signing a few FA that will improve the team. The FO strategy on trades is a quaundry of another color(they make no sense)and do not improve this team for ‘07.
You know, the upside to an Erstad signing would be that I really could just pick the entire Mariners lineup next year for my HACKING MASS team.
So because the Mariners are mentioned in rumors with 4 other teams for Erstad, it means they’re going to sign him?
This is a reasonable point but I think this offseason has seriously hampered the ability of many of us to be rational. You have to admit it certainly FEELS like something Bavasi would do. Isn’t that enough reason for despair?
Vidro, Burroughs, and now Erstad? The M’s really ARE trying to reassemble my 2005 Hacking MASS team (a pretty high finisher).
Looks like the M’s are shooting to win the Greg Oden sweepstakes.
What’s the big deal with Erstad? Personally, I like it as long as it’s a one year deal.
With question marks like Guillen, Vidro, et al, why not throw as much crap at the wall as you can, and see what sticks? By luck if he comes out of the gate hot in spring training, he can bump someone who’s playing piss-poor… *cough*Vidro*Ahem* And if (and probably) not, then who cares? He’s off the books in six months.
Each year I try to avoid choosing Mariners for my HACKING MASS team so I won’t have conflicts. That’s one of the reasons I was so happy when Ryan Franklin left.
It’s going to be pretty hard this year.
The big deal with Erstad: he can’t really play OF any more even though the Angels moved him back there after 3 years at 1B. As well, the Mariners have no use for a LH backup CF. He has 1 career game in RF and hasn’t played LF in 7 seasons. He’s a 1B/DH now coming off an injured 624 OPS season. The two previous seasons he was 739 and and 769.
So, he can’t field and he can’t really hit (for a 1B/DH) and he’ll probably want real money because he’s a veteran and was good two seasons ago. I guess if we trade Broussard, Erstad for $700,000 or an NRI as a PR and defensive replacement for Sexson would be a fine move.
Still it seems more likely that Erstad is done as a useful major leaguer than that he’s worth the few million (I assume) he wants.
I didn’t think it was possible to find someone worse than Everett. Clearly, I was wrong.
Still it seems more likely that Erstad is done as a useful major leaguer than that he’s worth the few million (I assume) he wants.
I was thnking he’d be more of an NRI with a playing-time based contract for 700K than a full-time player. Erstad’s not going to replace Ichiro, Raul or Guillen if they are healthy. I also suspect his ability to play CF and his crappy 2006 performance is related to his injury- which he says is better now. Worst case, he’s Quinton McCracken without having to give anything up for him.
If Erstad WANTS to be a starter, I don’t think Seattle is the place to go, since he’d be waiting for an injury.
E.C. – Can you think of a better place to go to wait for an injury to happen than an outfield of Guillen, Ibanez and Ichiro? I know you probably can, but Seattle has got to be very near the top of the that short list…
31/35/39: Its too bad Rick Ankiel flamed out…that would’ve been a perfect platoon for him. He could’ve played in the OF and came into pitch to tough lefties.
46- The problem with having a stock of players and seeing whicn one sticks is that Hargrove doesn’t use his roster that way. He sticks with one guy at each position until over-whelming evidence suggests he should try something new – See Jurassic Carl. It’s simply not in Hargrove’s make-up to have 4 guys playing 3 positions and then evaluate them over time.
OK, say he’s willing to come in as a low-priced NRI with a playing-time based contract. And say he gets hot in spring training and makes the team. How is that a good thing for the Mariners, given the very low likelihood that he could sustain any short burst of hitting over a whole season (given his last 5 years of steadily worsening suckitude)?
He has not slugged over 400 since 2000. Even Jose Vidro has been good more recently than that.
The only good thing about having him on the team is that he might make WFB look like a good hitter.
Making WFB look like a good hitter is NOT a good thing. We should be looking for guys who can make WFB look like a TERRIBLE hitter — i.e., average major leaguers at the minimum.
Yah, more Corner OF/DH/1B. One can never have enough guys who can’t play in the middle of the field.
Seattle Mariners = sports seppuku
what’s with all the willie bashing? he is on the team to play defense and steal bases…he’s pretty good at both…you want a bench player to have 1) speed 2) versatility 3) power…he’s got two of the three…you can’t expect a bench player to be of starting caliber, or they wouldn’t be on the bench…he’s fine for what is expected…
I believe that is addressed exhaustively in the FAQ:
“The problem is that what he offers the team could easily be replaced by any number of minor league players; that he gets so much irrational love from the team, the media and fans due to his local ties; and because of the dramatic divide between the playing time his skills merit and the playing time he actually gets/people want him to get.”
http://ussmariner.com/?p=2461
Willie is simply emblematic of what’s wrong with the team. He’s not a terrible player, but there’s no justifying his excessive at-bats. The correlation between production and playing time just isn’t there. A competent organization would realize this and play and pay Willie accordingly, but the M’s haven’t demonstrated competence over the past few years and certainly not this winter.
This team is going to need a second plane to haul all the meds, band-aids and trainers needed to field a team.
How’d we go from one of the youngest teams last year to freaking ancient in a matter of one off-season?
hmm. apparently Bill isn’t the only one in the pool:
“The A’s remain interested in free agent Darin Erstad as an outfielder and first baseman. Erstad told the Los Angeles Times six teams expressed interest in him. If the A’s signed Erstad, it would not necessarily prevent them from pursuing a young outfielder via a trade.”