Notes from Peoria, Day Two
Man, am I glad I spent a few hours over at the minor league fields this morning, because today’s game was lackluster to say the least, minus one very odd experience which I’ll get to in a little bit. On to today’s notes.
1. The team will address the Putz situation in the next 24 hours, most likely, but rumblings around camp aren’t good. It’s hold your breath time. Update: Hickey and Baker both say the preliminary diagnosis is good news – woo!
2. I got to see 17-year-old Carlos Triunfel take some hacks in the cage this morning and was extremely impressed. You can only tell so much from a guy taking swings in batting practice, but when a kid has a major league swing, it tends to jump out at you. This kid just has a different swing than the guys in his group (which included solid prospect Alex Liddi, by the way) and the ball absolutely leaps off his bat. Very effortless swing – little excess body motion and power coming from his batspeed and hips. He’s thicker in the lower half than most kids his age, so I expect we’ll hear a lot of suggestions that he won’t stick at shortstop simply because of his frame. I didn’t see him take the field, so I don’t have anything to say about his defense, but he’s obviously someone to keep an eye on. Sounds like he’s going to break spring training with Wisconsin, and if he’s as good as he looked in the cage today, he’ll be fine there.
3. Speaking of Alex Liddi, he was interesting to watch – he has a totally different swing than most of the M’s, as he drops his hands, dips his shoulder, and has a pretty noticable uppercut as he attemps to drive every pitch he swings at. It works, too, as he generated significant power and hit a lot of rockets to the deepest parts of the outfield. The swing was somewhat reminiscent of guys like Ryan Klesko. If he makes the majors, you’ll hear a lot of comments about how he doesn’t get cheated at the plate. I’d like to see him against real pitching and see if he makes adjustments to handle the low-and-in pitch.
4. The Royals sent their F team to Peoria for todays games. Ross Gload hit third. At least I got to see Billy Butler swing the bat, but man, that was a bad squad they put on the field. The game itself was pretty unventful, at least until the 5th inning. I was watching the game with a friend from Seattle who I get to see about every other year or so, and we were catching up on things – how’s his family doing, stuff with his job, normal friendly conversation. There was no drinking going on, nothing that could even potentially be construed as offensive conversation, and yet, the lady in front of us turns around and says (paraphrasing): “I’m sorry, but you guys have been talking the entire game. We’re trying to enjoy the game, and we can hear everything you say, and its pretty irritating. There’s some great seats in other sections – why don’t you guys go sit over there.”
I was so stunned, I didn’t know what to say. She wasn’t complaining that we were being loud or vulger or drunk – she just was annoyed by the fact that we were talking to each other. My friend offered up an apology for distrubing her, and rather than cause a scene, we moved to another location. We didn’t say anything rude as we left, and yet, as we walked down the stairs, she applauded us leaving in the same manner you see people applaud when someone is arrested and taken from the stadium. This is the first time in my life I’ve ever had any kind of negative encounter with the fans sitting around me, and to have someone get so annoyed because I was conversing with a friend I haven’t seen in a couple of years is still just stunning to me.
5. Overheard in our new seats a few innings later after Willie singles to give him yet another spring training base hit.
“Man, Willie runs hard. I don’t think I could do it if I was him – be that dedicated to the game, be such a good player, a good person, and never get a chance. He always hustles, always does his best. You can just tell he’s special, but they always find someone to play ahead of him. He’s just like Ibanez, where we used him as a utility guy and never gave him a job, and then he went elsewhere and became a star. But he just works so hard. Buhner was like that too. I’d love to have a team full of guys like Buhner and Bloomquist.”
We joke around here about comments like this to the point that you almost forget that most of the Mariner fans out there actually think this way. We’re in the vast minority when it comes to Willie – people really think he’s a terrific player who has just never been given a fair shake. I don’t even know what to say anymore. We’re never going to convince people that Willie’s not a major league starter. The things that they love about players aren’t things that make players good, and for the casual fan, that’s never going to change. As long as Willie keeps running hard, he’s always going to be held up as a great player in Seattle. It’s a fight we just can’t win.
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in spring? what, it’s the only game they’ll get to all year? I mean, I’ve felt that way during the season when you get to hear waaaay more than you want to about someones life, but heck, those games count
Maybe those people talking about Willie were the same ones who used to attempt to sell his rookie card on Ebay for $15.00, calling him the next Roberto Alomar. Sad may be the right word, but that’s just the fruits of the local media’s labor. If Ichiro is ever traded, I can guarantee the “braintrust” will hand Willie a starting job somewhere, even if they have to McLemore him.
I don’t think we can blame the media for the Willie love. Fans don’t love him because they’re told to, but because he embodies that everyman spirit that parents try to teach their kids at a young age. “Always try your hardest, you can do anything you set your mind to, play for the love of the game, and don’t be selfish.” Most parents, especially middle class suburban white folks, would rather have a good kid than a good ballplayer as a son, and Willie is the personification of what they would want their kids to be as players.
People are never going to stop loving this kind of stuff, and it wouldn’t matter if the media stopped writing feel good stories about WFB. Until he starts jogging on infield flies and turning down autograph requests by small children, he’s going to be loved, as is every hustling small white guy who plays in a similar style.
I’m with the lady, Dave. I don’t care if people are talking about the game or even stuff vaguely related to the game. But old home day? I’d even join or chime in if it’s about the game because that’s what I paid for. Whether it’s spring training or not I still paid for a ball game not a couple of guys catching up on old times.
I understand, he’s the kid with Down’s Syndrome who gets to play in the blowout games. Everybody loves a “feel good” story, like the little Bloomquist that could, the Bloomquist and the Hare, etc. It is what it is. We’re stuck with him and his fans for the forseeable future.
So, what’s the rule of etiquette for people like you guys, then? Old friend you hardly ever get to see meeting at a ballgame – can we talk about non-baseball stuff for two minutes? Five minutes? Only if the team is losing? If we get a signed release from all those around us?
I guess the expectation of silence at a ballgame is a foreign concept to me.
Two comments…
First, that lady was out of line, particularly with the sarcastic clapping thing. It’s a spring training game, for pete’s sake!
Second, the WFB luv is not rational, and we can’t use stats to fight it. Sad but true, I think.
me, I don’t mind people talking if it is also obvious they are watching the game (it is possible to multitask, after all)
me, I am bugged more by un-ending nattering between folks who were dragged to the game by someone else, and obviously have no interest in the field or by the baseball know-it-all who spews incredibly wrong facts and gossip about the teams & players
or (as a friend got to enjoy last season) the drunken doctors who spent the entire game visciously ragging on their absent colleagues and wives …
Dave, you’re a better man than me. The clapping when you left would have put me over the edge.
Yeah. There was no need for the “sarcastic clapping thing”. I’d still have asked him to take the conversation somewhere else. I think it’s just common courtesy that’s become all too uncommon these days. If you were ruining the game for her then she was in the right to ask you to take it elsewhere. If you guys were at the bar talking old times and she was the drunk on the barstool next to you being obnoxious then you would be in the right to ask her to take it elsewhere.
If we were being obnoxious, absolutely, I’d have understood it.
I’m just not sure I see what’s obnoxious about “so, how’s the wife and kid?”
That lady just doesn’t get out enough. She should stay home and watch on her TV where she won’t have to put up with having a crowd around her.
And thanks for the Notes, Dave. I appreciate the insights. I haven’t heard of Liddi before and very little of Triunfel. Some names to look for in a few years. And Morrow on the mound in Seattle teamed up with Felix. Hope Putz elbow isn’t as bad as I fear it is.
Liddi and Triunfel should be part of a fun Wisconsin team that may also include Greg Halman, Carlos Peguero, Gerardo Avila (who didn’t look very impressive today, but has some fans in the organization), Tony Butler, and Chris Tillman.
Wisconsin’s going to have the most prospect heavy team in the organization, bar none.
“If we were being obnoxious, absolutely, I’d have understood it.
I’m just not sure I see what’s obnoxious about “so, how’s the wife and kid?””
I know you don’t. That’s because courtesy is not as common as it used to be. I’m not saying you’re a lout but it went on for a while according to your account so that’s more than “so, how’s the wife and kid?”
Let’s agree to disagree on this one and get back to baseball.
Let’s agree to disagree on this one and get back to baseball.
Her and her husband showed up around the bottom of the second inning. She told us to go away in the bottom of the fifth. So, yea, she listened to us for about an hour or so before she said something.
I’m really curious – what do you feel is common courtesy in this kind of situation? How long is it not rude to talk to a friend you never get to see at a ballgame with 8,000 people in attendance?
Really curious or sarcastic? Here goes anyway: I’d have said “hey, Bro, let’s go get a beer/pop/burger/whatever and catch up”. I probably would have noticed that I was making the lady in front of me uncomfortable or irritated with my chatting. That’s just me. I watch people around me and care about how I’m impacting their enjoyment when I’m at ball games/movies/concerts/etc. That’s how I was brought up. Don’t screw up somebody else’s trip. I don’t walk around on eggshells all the time I just take other people into consideration as I trip along through life.
I tried not to be sarcastic. A little snarky maybe, but I like a little good natured snarky now and then. That’s why I like USSM.
I’m legitimately, honestly curious. I’ve never thought of a baseball game in the movie/library sense. I’ve been to thousands of baseball games in my life, and I’ve never seen this situation play out before. So the idea of not-talking-during-a-game is new to me.
And I think you can probably infer by the fact that we apologized to the lady and moved to other seats that we also care about the enjoyment of people around us.
I don’t think it makes any difference if 8,000 people were attending the game or 35,000 were. And I don’t think it makes any difference if the games “count” or not.
I think it was rather rude of you two to be nattering away, oblivious to your surrounding fellow fans. Were you there to watch the game or “catch up” for an hour or so? I think she was justified in complaining.
And another thing: why don’t you give up the “bah, bad Bloomquist” rants? We get the point. You’re complaining about a woman irritated with an hour of your gossiping; I’M complaining about a year of Bloomquist rants.
The real problem is if the M’s have 3 or 4 “Bloomquists” on the team.
I hate to see that chick at a Seahawk game…
I didn’t say anything about a library. Nice try but you don’t get it. There’s always chatter at the ball game but it’s mostly about the game or the goings on at the park. Maybe a little of this a little of that but endless conversation about old times and whatever while a ball game is going on isn’t the same thing.
I would have been more polite to you than she was but would have asked you to take it elsewhere.
I think it was rather rude of you two to be nattering away, oblivious to your surrounding fellow fans. Were you there to watch the game or “catch up” for an hour or so?
Is both not an acceptable answer?
And another thing: why don’t you give up the “bah, bad Bloomquist” rants? We get the point. You’re complaining about a woman irritated with an hour of your gossiping; I’ m complaining about a year of Bloomquist rants.
I love how “how’s the wife and kids?” is now gossip.
Obviously, this wasn’t a “lady” by any means. The clapping thing by itself pushed her way out of the “lady” category. I probably would have reminded her that we aren’t at the Opera, “Cats”, or a taping of “The View”, but that’s just me. I doubt if the cuckold next to her would have made a peep about it. As long as no profanity was used by you and your friend, she abolutely was not justified in saying anything. People talk during games all the time, even if it’s just reacting to the game itself.
I’ll just be joining the PRAY FOR PUTZ crowd…may the shoulder magically heal itself in the next 24 hours. Thanks.
Also, you paid for the ticket, and nowhere in the guidelines say you can’t talk. You can do and say whatever you want unless you’re being obscene or intoxicated. Which wasn’t the case here. Personally if I was watching the game, I’d be more irritated by the people like her making a fuss out of things.
Jeez, that high horse must be getting pretty tired folks.
The PI says the preliminary look at the MRI revealed nothing unusual…
You don’t have to be obscene or drunk to be rude and inconsiderate. Manners, people, manners. Be considerate of other people. Jeez, you’d think I was pulling teeth here.
I don’t think you can fault the media for Willie love … but you can fault them to their inability or unwillingness to connects the dots between how well (or unwell) he plays and how well (or unwell) his team performs when he plays. Admire his virtues on an aesthetic level all you like … but don’t confuse them with virtues that win baseball games. That’s empirically proven, over and over, up one side and down the other … and is beyond credible refutation.
Dave,
Two comments:
You cannot fight the Willie love. You just need to make a joke about it. For example, whenever I am at a game and Willie gets a single or fields a routine groundball, I very loudly tell whoever I am with about the greatness of Willie Bloomquist. Over the course of the game (especially if he goes 2-5 with a stolen base), I start floating suggestions like “Is Willie Bloomquist a Hall of Famer?” The reactions of the fans around you will make the whole Bloomquist ordeal worthwhile.
I’m quite suprised that some lady would randomly tell you off for having what you describe as a socially acceptable conversation with an old friend. It would be kinda funny to see the ushers at Safeco enforce a code of conversation. 3 minutes of not talking about the baseball game and you get the boot.
How about the lady and her husband leave if they were so disturbed? If you weren’t loud, and you weren’t swearing and obnoxious, then sorry.
It’s not bad manners to not talk to the person next to you at a game. It just isn’t. The lady could have been considerate of those around her. Sure, I get annoyed when I’m next to those girls who are text-messaging people and giggling ridiculously the whole game, but manage to ignore them 99% of the time.
Manners means to not be rude, not to be scared of talking to your friend in a public setting.
Are you guys serious? No non-baseball related talking at games? Wow. I’ve always thought that conversation – as long as it wasn’t drunk, loud, etc. (I really hate that) – was just part of the atmosphere. I better not go to any games with friends anymore, since usually our wives sit together and talk about non-baseball related stuff the whole time. I’ve never even noticed their conversation before and I’d be about two seats away.
Really, the solution was THE LADY SHOULD HAVE MOVED. It’s her deal if she was annoyed hearing somebody just talking during the game – that’s fine. A reasonable person just gets up and moves, and everyone’s happy. Problem solved. But no…
I’m with you on ballpark ettiquette, Dave. From what I can tell, you weren’t out of line at all, and the sarcastic clap thing was definitely out of line.
If someone can’t be bothered to sit next to two people having a reasonable conversation held at a reasonable volume, they shouldn’t leave their house. What’s so hard about watching a baseball game while people are talking in the background? I can watch a game with a hundred thousand people standing, clapping, and screaming their heads off, and I can certainly watch the game when the two people next to me are talking to each other.
If you were talking sex, politics, drugs, religion, or something like that, then I can see why someone would ask you to pipe down or move elsewhere. Certain topics are inconsiderate to bring up in public. But if it’s an acceptable public conversation, it ought to be an acceptable ballpark conversation. Conversing and watching the game are not mutually exclusive things, and I would actually encourage people to do both.
Oh, and I have 3 kids. We go to ball games. Kids get loud and goofy. I’m sure they annoy people around us. Should we just migrate around the ballpark constantly, so we don’t get on anyone’s nerves too long?
Or are we not allowed at the games? Because if you think we don’t belong there, I’m sure there’s a line of baseball organizations that want to talk with you.
I couldn’t be more serious and I didn’t say no non-baseball related talking. Wow is right. Where did manners and consideration go? I run into inconsiderate people all the time. Most of the time I shine em on and shame their parents for not raising em better. That’s the trouble with kids nowadays, no proper upbringing.
Always remember the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Exactly. And I expect all sorts of people around me to be talking about anything they please, as long as they are not swearing or loud or obnoxious.
I would have them talk about whatever they want, in those guidelines. Now, does it fit your definition of good manners?
I don’t understand how a conversation at normal volume could be ruining the game experience for anyone. The woman was totally out of line.
I agree with you assessment of the Willie love. And really, it’s not a problem, unless the organization and/or manager happen to agree, or almost agree. People will always have the hard working scrub favorites, and that’s fine. It’s when the manager thinks that this hard work makes his team win more games that we have a problem.
Really, if the Willie loving people won’t understand your stats argument, why bother? Let them be, as long as Hargrove or whomever makes out the lineup doesn’t agree. Then, well, I don’t know what to do then.
Maybe. But going on and on for an hour or more while a ballgame is going on is rude as far as I’m concerned. Take it elsewhere if you’re not interested in a ballgame. I’m a reasonable guy. I haven’t decked anybody since Wayne Robinson tried to cut the lunch line in 7th grade. I tolerate a lot.
Here’s another one: took my wife out for a significant anniversary. Nicest, fanciest most expensive restaurant I’ve ever taken her to. Nice “quiet” corner table. A young lady at the corner table across the room prattled endlessly through the whole meal about her upcoming wedding. She was loud. But she was with a party of family and friends who could hardly get a word in edgewise the whole time. It ruined our meal but it never entered my mind to ask her to shut up. It was her night and she was obviously wound up about her upcoming special day.
Went to a movie with my wife in college town. Lots of college age kids who wouldn’t shut up, were loud and obnoxious. Once the movie started and they didn’t settle down I gave them the “evil eye” a couple of times and finally stood up and said “shut up or I go for the manager”. The rest of the movie was quiet.
If a couple of guys are behind me at the game and keep going on about old home stuff, I politely ask them to take it somewhere else so I can enjoy the ballgame. That’s all. Most people are like Dave and his friend. They apologize and go enjoy their conversation somewhere else.
I think your first two examples are night and day from the ball game. Audiences should be quiet in a movie — they even tell you before the movie starts. Nice, expensive restaurants are not ballparks. Most people know and understand the difference. I’d be annoyed about the restaurant.
But a ballgame is different. It’s a public place where people hang out, talk, and watch the event in varying degrees. It’s in an atmosphere that does not encourage silent study of the game. It encourages socializing. About whatever the ticket buyer wants. (within reason of generally family friendly topics, which “how’s the wife and kid” sorta kinda fit into)
“WFB love” is rational in the way that love for anyone is rational. Some things you just can’t explain.
I guess people look at Willie and think, “Hey, he’s an ordinary guy. Not much of a physique. Makes the best use of the skills he has. Will play anywhere because he loves the game so much.” They see him as the response to the notion that players are overpaid and just don’t play hard anymore. Unfortunately, for all the work, the output is below average, and that’s what folks fail to recognize. They see the effort and misinterpret it as results.
As for that lady who was put off by your talking… Jeez, man, you’re at a baseball game, not the opera. One of the great joys in life is hanging out with friends at a baseball game, preferably in sunshine and with a beer in hand.
I couldn’t be more serious and I didn’t say no non-baseball related talking. Wow is right. Where did manners and consideration go? I run into inconsiderate people all the time. Most of the time I shine em on and shame their parents for not raising em better. That’s the trouble with kids nowadays, no proper upbringing.
You just insulted an entire generation of people AND their parents. Where are your manners?
Your argument boils down to this:
If you were ruining the game for her then she was in the right to ask you to take it elsewhere.
Quite frankly, that’s ridiculous. The same logic would apply if someone told me to move because she thought I was ugly and was ruining her experience with my ugly face. Just because someone doesn’t like something doesn’t necessarily make it inappropriate or inconsiderate. Dave was showing consideration by controlling the volume of his conversation and avoiding topics that aren’t acceptable in public conversation.
Take it elsewhere if you’re not interested in a ballgame.
This assumes that you can’t have a conversation and follow the game. People do both all of the time, though.
Okay, so as a psychologist, I’m going to venture a guess that you were seated in front of someone with a touch of the ol’ narcissism. Ballgames are different than concerts. Her reaction is seriously out of proportion to the circumstances. I love shooting the shit with my buddies at the game… we all lead busy lives, and sometimes we haven’t seen each other for a while. I figure the other fans are in the same boat.
She could easily have moved somewhere if she needed a church-like atmosphere.
and, I’m just guessing here, but I bet Dave at a ballgame is not spending the entire hour talking personal chat, even if he & his friend hadn’t seen each other in a while. If nothing else, there had to be back and forth about who Billy Butler is, how Liddi & Triunfel had looked to him in the cage that morning … you know, sort of what he wrote about above…
Those of you who think fans need to be quiet and watch the game obviously don’t understand the nature of baseball fandom.
Ever notice the buzz in the crowd during ANY ballgame? It’s people talking. That buzz is constant throughout any ball game. Baseball lends itself to having a nice conversation with the person next to you. It’s not fast-paced like basketball, or overly intense like football. It is much slower and deliberate. You can watch the game, and not miss a thing, and still have a good conversation.
If anything, Dave, I’d say you guys were too polite. You paid money for your seats, and you have every right to carry a conversation with your friend. So long as there was no vulgarity, rudeness, or loud yelling on a constant basis, you guys were doing nothing wrong. I would have told the woman to turn around and watch the game and mind her own damn business. You don’t watch baseball in a freakin’ bubble.
Love of conspicuous or pointless hustle is endemic with casual fans. There’s also the other side of it. Friends and I saw a game at Fenway Park early last year (yeah, we’re Sox fans) in which these two women behind us talked all game long. Fine. They weren’t loud. They were at least somewhat considerate. But they complained bitterly about Manny Ramirez for truly bizarre perceived failings. Somebody on the opposing team hit a liner into the left field corner. It was the sort of ball that 999 times out of 1000 is a double. The only time it’s not a double is when the left fielder falls down or misplays a relatively easy carom and a speedy runner gets to third. Manny went over to get it with a few loping strides. If you put Roberto Clemente in his prime in left field he could not have prevented a double in that circumstance. Nevertheless, the two women behind us bitterly carped at Manny saying how he was getting 20 million and he couldn’t bother to run hard after it. We laughed out loud. Only an utterly pointless show of false hustle would have satisfied them. WFB appeals to fans like them.
Sorry, QuoVadis, but you’re way off base on ballpark talking (though quite correct about movie theaters and fancy restaurants). As long as the conversation is not offensive and at a reasonable volume, you have no room for complaint. Frankly, anybody who can’t handle that going on around them at a ballgame should just stay home and watch it on TV.
What if the people behind you are having an annoying baseball conversation? Do I have the right to ask someone to move if they’re spending the game going on about the greatness of Bloomquist, Hargrove, the Yankees, and RBI and ERA as the best predictive stats? I mean, that’d be really annoying. I’d rather they were talking about their wives and kids.
Yeah, I’ve been to games and listened to other peoples whole life story. I just move if I can.
At ST I was giving Willie some crap when he was at bat. Some Seattle fans turned around and told me she for one never liked WB. We joked around for a few minutes as he grounded out. So there are people that don’t read this site that do know WB for what he is.
HOWEVER, the experiance you had over hearing the Bloomquist-Backers. That is my experiance every game I go to with some of my friends.
One more thing – you don’t need to hear a baseball game to know what’s going on. If you can’t help but eavesdrop on other people’s polite/friendly conversation, that’s your own problem.
Dave. Regarding the gung holier than thou woman who asked you to leave, she’s completely in the wrong unless you or your friend talk abnormally loudly. The idea of insufficient devotion in a spring training game is a new one one me. I guess if you live long enough you encounter all kinds.
Way back in 1999, friends and I got tickets for game 3 of the ALDS against Cleveland in Fenway Park. I’m a totally unhinged Red Sox fan. But I was called something on the order of a bandwagon jumping fraud by a woman sitting behind us because I told her to stop her incredibly loud attempts to start cheers moments after the final out of an inning had been made. She was laboring under some delusion that that’s when chants in the stands started not just before the first batter of the inning stepped to the plate.
Is that the new microbrew amber ale I’ve been hearing about?
#46 – I think that was my wife and I you talked to
Heh. I wonder if somehow Cranky Yankee made her way down to AZ. Sure sounds an awful lot like her, and how she treated us (and the non-annoyingly behaved fellows in front of us) during the rain-delayed first ever LookoutLanding night at Cheney back in ‘05. But, then, she didn’t go grab the usher and cuss at him, trying to get us kicked out by telling him we were, ironically, cussing in front of her granddaughter. She didn’t happen to have a huge crush on Pat Borders, now did she???
Good on you for taking the initiative yourselves to move, even though she probably was the one who should’ve moved herself. I agree with those who see the ballpark as a hugely social place, where you’re invited to cordially converse with those around you, especially if you’re sitting amongst friends. It’s the drunken belligerence and certainly certain topics of discussion that can annoy people, so you have to be mindful of those sorts of things. But in knowing you like I do, Dave, I don’t see that those are faults you have to worry about…
My two cents:: You can talk about anything you like. It is volume that is the problem, at least with me. If you are talking loud enough so that I am a third party to your conversation, then I don’t like it. Suprisingly, I find that it happens more often than one might realize. My wife and I joke about it alot, especially when I start telling her what the issues of the day are for the couple sitting nearby.
Went to my other happy place: the shooting range. Put 100 rounds of .45 ACP down range. Feel much better.
Baseball is life, ballpark is cathedral, baseball fans are community. Make noise, cheer, chat and visit. Yep. Agree with all that. People are at the ballpark because they’re fans, married to fans or family of fans. It’s like family at the ballpark so we give family a break. Cut em some slack and put up with their crap because they’re family. Sometimes you have to shut them up too.
Sorry if I offended a whole generation. I don’t think their parents are offended though. They probably agree with me.
I feel like I was set up. Dave cast the bait and I took it hook line and sinker.
Personally, when she started the clapping, I would of turned right back around, sat back in my seat, and continued talking. And I would of done while leaning close to her ear so I could make sure she heard me. Because that would of been BS.
I had Pennsylvania Guy sitting behind me in Peoria. He spent the entire game calling friends back home and telling them that it was 90 degrees and that no one in the section owns a snow shovel. I would have rather listened to you and your friend’s conversation.
The Angels crowd treated their home game like it was the World Series. The Mariners crowd was very much less partisan. More snowbirds and less hard core Mariner fans. Well, and less fans in total.
Holy Crap! Bloomie was 4 for 4 today! What if, I’m saying what if Pentland is a miracle worker and WFB is now a bona fide major league hitter? What if he has the famous grit and can hit and play every position except 1 and 2? Where do you put him? DH daily and then put him in the field as needed?
I have a buddy who is a huge baseball fan, yet he and I have had exactly the same argument about talking at games. He views a baseball game as a social event, and thinks it’s perfectly acceptable to chat with a friend throughout the game about something other than the game. To me, it’s a huge and irritating distraction, especially when I’ve paid some hideous amount of money for my seat and the guys next to me got corporate seats and are clearly not paying attention to the game.
Unlike Dave, I don’t see thousands of games of baseball; it’s an occasion to me, and one to be savored. I’m there to watch my favorite sport live and in person, not to have someone else’s personal life poured into my ear.
The lady was rude with the clapping thing, but I’m with her on the chatter. Catch up with your friend at the bar.
I’d just like to put in my $.02 for manners not just being things that people either have or don’t have but also things people disagree on and things that change over time, are different in different places, etc. In this case, I’m pretty squarely in Dave’s corner, but it’s not so hard for me to imagine being on the other side in a somewhat similar situation with a slightly different cast of characters/behaviors.
The point here is not so much that Dave probably wasn’t overly obnoxious (though I think that’s the case), or that the woman should tolerate conversation under x, y, or z parameters (though I think she probably should have). It’s that it makes sense in most situations to be tolerant, at least to some degree, of different sets of manners from your own. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t complain, but it does mean that you should be a little reflexive. For me lecturing other people about manners is extremely bad manners. But that’s just me, and while it’s hard, I try to recognize that’s not the case for many other people.
In this particular case, it seems clear that all this woman wanted to do was feel righteous and indignant. It appears she got what she wanted. I wish there was a way you could have prevented her from doing so (though the sad reality is that there probably wasn’t).
I don’t think I could ever be so mature as to politely apologize and get up and move. That lady would have had to listen to stories about my Aunt Dorothy’s gallstones and my cat’s litter of kittens and my nephew’s poopy diapers for the entire rest of the game. Good for you guys for taking the high road.
Huzzah for chatter.
It’s always been my view that if the chatter is bothering me then it is my problem, because it means I’m not being social with my own friends and hearing too much of what other people around me are saying.
It’s public, it’s social, and quiet people are the problem. I meet ladies like that in Seattle all the time. You got to stand your ground with them because they’re on a righteous power trip.
Set up? No; Dave told the story as one who still had a hard time believing it had happened — I’d guess the last thing he expected was to find people taking the woman’s side.
From my point of view, the fact that it’s ST actually makes the incident more explicable, because the crowd’s small enough that there isn’t the background noise — even the players can hear the conversations in the stands. Still, the idea that only certain kinds of conversations are permitted at a baseball game isn’t an established standard of manners to which everyone should adhere; I’ve never met anyone of any generation who had that expectation (and my grandfather was a serious baseball fan). As long as you’re not saying anything offensive and you’re not being loud, if people are bothered, that’s their problem.
(I’m reminded at this point of a comment by the novelist Pinckney Benedict, who told a class one time that the great benefit of being married to a fellow writer is that when you go out to a restaurant, neither minds that the other is making perfunctory conversation while eavesdropping on everyone else around.)
If this lady’s blood pressure spikes over “what’s new?” in the row behind, she really needs to find a new hobby. Someone might even yell something she doesn’t agree with at a game.
And Spring Training? In the Florida parks, particularly Vero Beach, players used to run wind sprints in the outfield during the game, and cool off sitting next to some hottie on the outfield berm. Very formal affair.
The ballpark is a place for conversation mos def, but people can get irritating (especially cell phone talkers and folks spouting massively flawed baseball knowledge). Then again, I’m 19 and my friends and I are probably way more annoying, not to mention there is about a 5% chance we payed for the seats we’re in.
On that note, people who show up in the fourth inning’s seats should be fair game.
If anyone can’t handle hearing someone else’s conversation, they shouldn’t go a to ball game where they are surrounded by thousands of people. Simple as that. It’s not about politeness, it’s about mellowing out and letting people be. Jeezus, I’m just shocked this is a real debate…
I don’t really understand why it’s hard to tune out something that’s going on behind you when you’re watching a ballgame. God knows I do it to the announcers enough while I’m watching on TV, and I’m not really sure why you need audio to enjoy a spring training ballgame from the stands. That’s just me, though.
I can’t imagine Dave or his friend being loud while catching up… and even if they were, how does she feel about PA announcements?
Fact of the matter is, she was being a control freak and was also more then likely taking out some unrelated frustration out on you to help her get back into her controlled zone. The fact that she was snarky about it afterward is proof that she enjoyed more making you do her bidding.
This is the kind of person you shoot in the parking lot. We’re all better off without them in the gene pool.
Wow…if you can’t have silence at a ball game, where can you? This is exactly why I hate other people talking when I have a conversation with them….I mean, when they talk, I can’t even hear myself think… it completely ruins the coversation for me… I mean really….how rude and selfish of them…
Anyway, I bet you’re one of those people who stand up and yell at key moments in close ballgames…..really the nerve….
It’s not “common courtesy” to attend a public event and expect those around you-who are engaging in socially acceptable behavior- to conform to your expectations so that your enjoyment of the game is maximal…
The lady was a bore and a bully. It’s absolute bunk to assume others’ conversations at a game will center on the field let alone that there is some standard of etitquette dictating that they do…
Common courtesy dictates that the lady should’ve found those great seats in other sections…
Anyway, concerning Bloomquist, I think it’s kind of like the conversation in Moneyball where Lewis suggests the job of a scout is to see the tools and imagine what the player will be… I think fans can do the same thing with intangibles. We can see the grit and hustle and just imagine that a player is capable of great things. The intangibles just make it easier to dream.
Really on some levels thats a bit of the reason for the tension between old school and sabermetrics that exists in the fanbase. People don’t like to have their dreams challenged.
I think this sort of complaining is a ‘Seattle thing’. I’m sure this woman was related to the two guys who kept looking at my friends and I when we were cheering during game 5 in 1995.
Ross Gload should hit in all positions in the order at once. He is the Gload. The shining firmament or something. Ross Gload. Ross Gload. Ross Gload.
I read through Dave’s notes and was amazed at the audacity of the lady to make that request; the clapping was just amazing. And then to see the comments in support of her is a shock. I go to at least 5-8 spring training games every year and I personally sit in the outfield because it’s just a great excuse to sit outside, enjoy a ballgame, and have a conversation. The only time that someone gets on my nerves is when they are loud, drunk, or a combination of the two. I’m with marbledog in that I would have sat my ass back down and continued to talk about even more nonsensical things. This lady needed to pull the stick out or go back home and listen to the game on the radio.
Oh yeah, and how serious can she be about enjoying the game if she showed up late. Yes, that is an assumption that she didn’t have something more important to do before the game, but still valid.
I do wonder sometimes how much of what people complain about the Seattle baseball fan is a by-product of still being a relatively young franchise — there are those who complain that Seattle baseball fans don’t have the devotion of a Cub fan, or the fanaticism of a Sox fan, or the knowledge of a Cards fan … forgetting there is a century of baseball culture in those places that hasn’t happened here.
I image the vast majority of folks at games to day weren’t at the Dome when you could not only talk to each other in the stands, but carry on a conversation with the outfielders as well…
Man, it doesn’t sound like she should have reacted that way to you guys…I mean, come on seriously? It was a spring training game against the Royals…how intently can you really watch it? I am in Peoria right now and I was at that game. It’s probably because she was so dying of heat and really irritated. It was a absolute scorcher out there.
Sounds like I’m going to have to check out Carlos Triunfel when the Timber Rattlers are in town to play the Swing. Any other players I should look forward to this season, guys?
Oh yeah, and how serious can she be about enjoying the game if she showed up late.
Amen. Showing up late is major no-no with me. Righteous indignation lady would have absolutely no leverage if she strolled in in the bottom of the second.
My parents would be offended by this suggestion. And the one that they did something wrong raising me because I talk with friends and, yes, my parents at ballgames. If I’m at a ballgame with my parents, it is one of the three or so weeks a year I get to see them. We talk about life. We watch the game. We talk about the game. We’ve been going to Mariners games for over 20 years, and from my experience, there is nothing wrong with talking in a normal voice about various topics – baseball and non-baseball – without using crude language. I got angry just reading about this woman asking Dave and his friend to stop talking. I can’t believe how calmly and politely they handled the situation. The most obnoxious part of her actions is that this was a SPRING TRAINING game – half the people there don’t know first base from third. I just spent a week down there, and at the games I would talk with my friends and family (including my parents, who wanted to know how school was going, how the job hunt was going, if I’m moving at the end of my current lease, etc), read through the new BP (sorry ussm), talk baseball, Mariners and otherwise, and block out the chatter of the local senior citizens behind me who don’t know who Ichiro is and love Willie Bloomquist. Man, if you can’t talk at a spring training game, what is left?
So Dave, after the lady told you to be quiet, did Bloomquist make his birdie putt?
preliminary good news in Bakers blog
All the information isn’t out yet, but an MRI taken on Mariners closer J.J. Putz revealed no structural damage. Mariners manager Mike Hargrove said this morning that: “The news on J.J. is better than we’d hoped, so that’s good.” Hargrove declined to elaborate further, pending the release of a statement by the team expected at some time before 10 a.m. Team medical director Dr. Edward Khalfayan reviewed the MRI today and phoned the Mariners with the news.
This story about the clapper is driving my blood-pressure through the roof. That usually doesn’t happen until I have to watch Hargrove attempt to manage the bullpen. Personally I think that people OUGHT to talk at ballgames in between significant action (say men on base or Ichiro at bat or Randy Johnson with two strikes). That’s part of what it is to be at a ballgame, unless you’re scoring. I think I’d better go take a walk or something before I get really angry.
I do wonder sometimes how much of what people complain about the Seattle baseball fan is a by-product of still being a relatively young franchise — there are those who complain that Seattle baseball fans don’t have the devotion of a Cub fan, or the fanaticism of a Sox fan, or the knowledge of a Cards fan … forgetting there is a century of baseball culture in those places that hasn’t happened here.
Okay. I totally screwed up that attempted use of the quote feature.
“I’m with the lady, Dave. I don’t care if people are talking about the game or even stuff vaguely related to the game. But old home day? I’d even join or chime in if it’s about the game because that’s what I paid for. Whether it’s spring training or not I still paid for a ball game not a couple of guys catching up on old times.”
Sorry QuoVadis but I’m on the other side. The “lady” was totally out of line. If there were so many good seats elsewhere then she should have been the one to move. The clapping is absolutely classless, period.
If the lady had simply, politely said “You know, your conversation is distracting for us and we’re having a hard time enjoying the game due to it; would you mind not talking so much or so loudly?”; that would’ve been perfectly acceptable.
Different people get distracted by different amounts of, well, distractions, and you have to understand that you can’t hold everyone to the same standard of what would bother you.
However, it’s also the responsibility of the “offended” party to address the situation in a polite manner, and it’s pretty clear to me that this individual was more concerned with making her frustrations known to as many people as possible than with resolving a conflict in a mature matter.
For her to immediately resort to “YOU need to move”, and then give sarcastic applause when you were nice enough to do so utterly removed any moral high ground she could have been pretending to.
Dave: …the lady in front of us turns around and says (paraphrasing): “I’m sorry, but you guys have been talking the entire game. We’re trying to enjoy the game, and we can hear everything you say, and its pretty irritating. There’s some great seats in other sections – why don’t you guys go sit over there.”
Jeff Nye’s suggestion above: “You know, your conversation is distracting for us and we’re having a hard time enjoying the game due to it; would you mind not talking so much or so loudly?”
I don’t see a whole lot of difference (considering Dave was paraphrasing), save for the last sentence uttered by the complaintant.
Actually, if I was that lady, I probably would have said to my husband “Honey, let’s move to those great seats over in that other section over there, I can’t hear myself think let alone pay attention to the game with all the chattering going on behind me.”
And left Dave and his friend to continue chattering on, and later post a complaint on his blog…
I’m not so sure I would ever go to a public event of any kind where I run the risk of offending anyone by having the temerity to complain about someone else’s thoughtlessness, if Typical Idiot Fan (in #62) is one of those chatterers behind me.
I had a lot more to say, but suffice it to say I still agree for the most part with QuoVadis, and obviously we both are of a generation less laissez faire than what we’re seeing here.
It’s my opinion that the last sentence makes all the difference.
A relatively simple request to reduce the volume or amount of non-game-related conversation is a world apart from requesting that someone else move to different seats. I can see the lady asking them to move if she’d previously requested this and Dave and his friends ignored said request. But it shouldn’t have been the first thing she said to them, nor should she have followed it up by applauding. There’s no way to construe the applause portion of this as anything positive on the complainant’s part.
I am HUGE on personal manners, and I agree that manners in general have been largely abandoned by society as a whole; but the woman exhibited manners at least as poor as, and frankly in my estimation poorer than, Dave and his friends.
Her actual complaint had some merit to it, but the manner she chose to address it in was entirely inappropriate.
Sorry. This boggles my mind.
I don’t think this has to do with generations; it’s more individualistic in my estimation (having been a fan since the 60s). It’s simply not in my conception for this to be considered impolite.
By the way, I’d probably fit into the “laissez faire generation” referred to, being 32 years old this year.
I’m simply of the opinion that how you address a situation where someone is doing something you perceive as impolite is just as important as how the offending person conducting themselves acted in the first place.
Being offended doesn’t give you the right to be rude yourself.
from the everett herald today
and the beat goes on…(my head against keyboard)
Almost as bad as the clapping, is the fact that the “husband” didn’t come over at some point to apologize for his wife’s rudeness and uncouth behavior. I’ll have to assume that he had to make a run to the store for some midol and cranberry juice.
There is no credible reason why she would have needed to open her mouth and address two strangers simply for talking. (Unless profanity was used) She was 100% in the wrong.
This has been fun and interesting. I’m glad lots of people joined in and gave their opinions. I disagree with probably less than half the people that disagree with me. I think some of those that disagree just don’t get it and are rude louts. Not many but they’re a fact of life. Some of our disagreement is to a lesser degree than it appears in this format because it’s not conducive to this kind of discussion. Some of our disagreement is generational some might be regional.
Thanks again for the discussion.
I was too lazy to read what everyone else wrote, but [deleted, too lazy]
Jeff Nye, I agree with you. The lady was rude in suggesting Dave and his friend move, rather than just remarking on the situation (to Dave, etc., OR to her own companion) and moving herself. That’s what I suggested.
Nevertheless the situation wouldn’t have gotten to that point if Dave and his friend had observed a few niceties of conversing in public. Which, in my mind, is: Keep it short, keep it clean, keep it modulated.
Almost everybody here seems to be giving the two guys a “bye” because they got 2 out of 3.
I give up.
And I probably WILL be watching Mariners games from now on via TV, because I sure wouldn’t want to irritate Typical Idiot Fan when he acts like a typical idiot fan.
Wow, I never realized what an asshole I am.
I’m never talking at a game, again. Period.
I mean, the biggest thrill I had at a Mariner game last year was cracking wise at the Ibanez/Bloomquist/Everett OF alignment from the third deck. (I mean, what better game to sit *high* above home plate)! Other than that, how else do you pass away a less than stellar baseball game? By sitting silent? Why not just go to the games alone?
Who made her the speech police? Dave or whoever has ever right to talk what they want to talk about as long as they aren’t being abusive to those around them.
Well, Karen, here’s the thing:
The part that I said about not being able to expect everyone to adhere to the standards you may personally have for what you find offensive or distracting goes both ways.
It was as incorrect of the woman in question to assume that Dave and his friends would adhere to her personal standards of etiquette as it was of them to assume that there was no possibility that their conversation would bother someone. There really can’t be any complete and objective standard of public etiquette in a situation like this because, aside from a common desire to treat others as you’d like to be treated, there are a myriad of cultural, social, and other factors that determine what is considered to be “courteous”. This thread is further evidence that there isn’t one clear standard that everyone can agree upon.
So we’re left with what I personally consider to be offsetting “wrongs” as far as the original behavior went, so all we have that differentiates the two groups is how they reacted to the situation.
So let’s contrast those:
Woman: phrased her displeasure very confrontationally, attempted no resolution prior to “suggesting” that Dave and his friends inconvenience themselves by moving to other seats, and applauded spitefully (I’d be hard-pressed to find any other motivation for the applause when they moved, and really this is the determining factor for me) when they removed themselves;
Dave et al: responded as soon as they were notified that their conduct was bothering the woman, and frankly did more than they really needed to.
Now obviously there are two sides to the story, and we don’t have the benefit of the woman’s take on the events as they happened; but as I say above, the applause portion of this, in particular, there’s no real possible justification for that I can think of, and I’ve never known Dave (or any of the other authors of this blog) to be deliberately deceptive, so I’m inclined to trust his version of events (while acknowledging that he may naturally be biased to see his conduct in the most positive light).
Thus, while admitting that Dave and his friends probably could have been somewhat more considerate of others by minimizing their conversation somewhat, I think that the greater wrong lies in this case with the woman in question, who displayed no real interest in resolving the conflict in an amicable fashion and simply went right to the most extreme option she had available to her (making a scene and demanding that Dave and his party move THEIR seats, rather than doing so herself or simply asking them to stop).
Boy, that was long winded. I like ethics conversations.
When beer, cracker jacks and cotton candy are sold at the opera and it’s become tradition to stand up two thirds of the way through and sing along with the PA announcer or to yell encouragement/criticism to the tenor at key moments during the night, I guess i’ll try to discreetly whisper to my buddies during a ballgame… Maybe we can just send text messages to one another….if our typing isn’t too disturbing.
Several ball clubs actually have cheerleaders now….I guess to encourage quiet and discreet conversation? Is part of the home field advantage the satisfaction that comes from knowing your fan base is uncharacteristically quiet and reserved? I guess the point of having an organ player is to discourage spontaneous bouts of disrupting noise?
This has nothing to do with courtesy let alone “common” courtesy or manners…. It has everything to do with projecting unreasonable expectations upon others….
If you go to a public swimming pool to work on your tan, you shouldn’t assume that you won’t be splashed or that you’ll be able to read Nietzsche without interruption…
Really….who seeks solitude in a place that seats tens of thousands of people with painted faces and nets and gloves?
In a little late, but better that than never…
I talk at ballgames. I talk about the game and talk about other things. That’s what I do.
I was in an identical situation as Dave at a game at Safeco last September. Buddy I haven’t been with in about ten years had just moved to town. We talked about everything–absolutely everything…my marriage, his divorce, and eventually we got into a heavy-duty political debate (how to fix up American public education). He’s in law school, I teach…we went to town on it. And at the end of the debate, the woman in front of us turned around. And she said:
“That was great! You guys should write a book!”
Well, that was nice. If she’d said “you’re a little loud,” well, I’d have tried to be quiet, as I know I’m a little loud. But it’s grossly unreasonable to expect people to not be social. I talk to my dad, my wife, my friends, etc., about the ballgame and about anything else that crosses my mind. This is part of the reason why I prefer baseball to other sports. Its tempo encourages conversation during games.
Dave, you went way above and beyond the call of duty in leaving. I never would have left. I’d have said “We’re not breaking any rules here…we’re just chatting. If it bothers you, then you can go, but we’ve paid for these seats the same as you, so we have a right to have a conversation here.”
And the clapping? Forget it. I’d have turned back around. You showed admirable restraint.
Those of you who disagree, please email me your seat locations for any nights you’re going to games at Safeco or in Everett. I’ll let you know if I’m going to be nearby so you can change your seats before you take offense at me [GASP!] enjoying a night out with my friends and family. Or maybe you can wear headphones and listen to Rick Rizzs.
Or just stay home.
OK, my absolute “annoying fan story” goes like this.
My wife and I have season tickets in the front row of section 333. One night, right behind us, was some drunk birthday chick and two guys. The gal had a voice like a foghorn and used it on occasions when the rest of the crowd was dead quiet. Such as: John Olerud coming up to bat.
She would yell, “COME ON JOHNNY OOOOO”, at the top of her leather lungs, leaning forward so her lips were within twelve inches of my ear. I mean, they could hear her down on the field, so at a range of twelve inches, this was roughly 2,000 dBA.
After about the third time (approx six beers for her), I turned to her and asked her to “keep it down, please”.
“We’re at a f***k*N ballgame, buddy”, was the response. The boyfriends/whatever, actually had the grace to look sheepishly embarrassed at the trucker-mouth on their “date”.
After the next couple of foghorn blasts (maybe 4th inning), I’d had enough, so immediately after the last one, I stood up, turned around and yelled in her face, at a range of maybe six inches, “WOULD YOU MIND KEEPING IT DOWN!!!?!?!?!?”
Freaked out everyone within about 20 feet, including Dave “Softy” Mahler and his wife at the time, who had season tickets immediately adjacent to drunk chick. Seriously, if anyone ever calls Softy and asks about it, I’m sure he’ll remember.
Drunk chick shut the hell up, though.
Shortly after that, an usher came over and asked for a word with me, saying that a patron had complained about my behavior. We retreated to the usher’s home area, by the handicapped seats. I described the sequence of events, mentioned that I was a season ticket holder of about 10 years, that I had attempted to reason with drunk chick and been rebuffed in an impolite manner and that my ultimate reaction was merely one of exasperation.
Shortly after that, drunk chick and her boyfriends were quietly moved to seats unknown.
Ah, good times…
Good response, Jeff Nye, in #95. You summed it up very nicely.
Common courtesy is thinking of others and how your behavior impacts them, not the other way around…not letting the situation get as tense as it apparently did between the lady and Dave/friend. I’d guess no one in that situation really considered that, although Dave and his friend definitely get points for leaving the scene quietly.
A lot of you are guilty of obfuscating the simplicity of the situation by castigating the woman for showing up ~the bottom of the 2nd inning (some of you mistakenly implied it was later than that), for suggesting she was criticizing non-baseball talk in general during the game, or that she was requiring complete silence. Tsk.
I have a couple of stories, too, but they’re about common courtesy and regard for others, not ballpark behavior. They’d be funny if they weren’t so obliviously rude.
My husband and I had just ordered dinner at Tony Roma’s restaurant right across the street from Disneyland one night a few years ago. About halfway through my salad I began to smell the worst smell (in a restaurant, anyway). Phew! Some thoughtless self-centered young mother lacking in common courtesy was changing her baby’s stinky diaper in the booth in back of me. All she was apparently concerned about was that her baby’s diaper needed changing. She never gave a thought to the milieu possibly being totally inappropriate, or who else her actions might impact.
Another story, more recent: Last January my husband, my sister and I were returning from Florida. About a half hour into the flight, the bulkhead passenger next to my husband and I asked to get up. We moved out so she could, then sat down until she got back. When she got back, though, she stood in the aisle in front of us and asked my sister to exchange seats with her so she could have an aisle seat. Since we’d specifically booked these seats months before, my sister refused (politely).
The woman then got insistent, saying she realized we were all related and that we should want to “keep the family unit together” (my sister and I both were in aisle seats side by side, and my husband was next to me). It took almost 10 minutes of the woman haranguing us and my sister and I standing firm before the woman finally sat down (the attendant pointed out there was a single vacant seat in the row ahead of us, but she didn’t take it).
For the rest of the flight the woman made my (stroke brain-damaged) husband miserable by hoisting her armrest up to about 3/4 vertical, then leaning against it and propping her feet up against the bulkhead, and sleeping. He couldn’t lean back but one shoulder at a time. I spent most of the flight with my arm up around his back so he could lean towards me, then lean back against the back of his seat. I could have moved him to that vacant seat, I suppose, but I don’t think he would have gone willingly (he doesn’t like to be distanced from me these days).
What could we complain about? She was “within her rights” to use that armrest any way she wanted. Finally, about 20 minutes before we landed, she woke up, packed up all her belongings, and moved to the vacant seat the attendant had pointed out several hours before.
I vented my irritation by writing a letter to the airlines. I hope the next time she flies, the airline makes sure she’s sitting between 2 behemoths on a full flight…
#101: yes but in the context of a ballpark behavior of the woman in Dave’s story was analogous to the behaviors of the inconsiderate ones in your stories….
Ballpark etiquette, I suspect, is quite different from one city to another. In certain East Coast cities like Boston, Philadelphia, or New York if that woman in Peoria had made a similar request to some dudes sitting behind her, you might have a “Malice in the Palace” situation break out.
One time I was waiting for a Metro bus with the same folks I’d waited for the bus with for 2 years. All of a sudden one of the folks said “Good morning”. I reported them to Metro transit once I arrived at work. Imagine, someone talking in public!
Dave–Great the support you have received. Been away for a few days so reading all was interesting. The number of posts and support for you shows the loyalty and support of readers.
Those times when you may question is it worth your time and effort to share with us for no monetary reward. This support should be great reward.
It certainly helps that you were on the polite correct side. You demonstrated great character,which you do in your writing. Especially fond of your sharing your Mother’s and your going to the game.
The clapping would have pushed me over the top. One just feels sorry for a person whos life must be so unpleasant after being pissed off and reflection.
Wonder how the senerio would have played out if DMZZ were in the mix?
Well, maybe she could have taught him how to change a tire. That’s the only difference that I can think of.
HA HA HA HA IT IS FUNNY BECAUSE PREVIOUSLY I HAD TROUBLE FIGURING OUT THE CRAAAZY WORKINGS OF THE GRAND CARAVAN SPARE WHICH INVOLVES USING A WINCH AND STUFF!!! HA HA HA HA HA!!!