Red hot televised spring training action!

DMZ · March 26, 2007 at 5:47 pm · Filed Under Game Threads 

Seattle @ Texas! Whee! 6:05!

Comments

128 Responses to “Red hot televised spring training action!”

  1. Johan Garpenlov on March 26th, 2007 9:22 pm

    Damn.

  2. gwangung on March 26th, 2007 9:33 pm

    USSM has pitched the availability of relatively cheap and abundent relievers for a long time. On the other hand, decent starting pitchers are as rare as hen’s teeth, and cost considerably more if purchased on the open market. Assuming all this to be true it would seem like a no brainer to conserve starter possibilities and buy whatever you need for relief.

    There are a lot of no-brains out on the Internet. I think we’ve proved that to anyone’s satisfiaction….

  3. David J. Corcoran I on March 26th, 2007 9:33 pm

    I accuse Johan Garpenlov of being DMZ.

  4. Russ on March 26th, 2007 9:35 pm

    They haven’t had to deal with you for as long as we have. And they’re getting paid to be pleasant towards you.

    This is without a doubt one of the funniest, truest statements I’ve read in long time. This one comment makes the subscription worth it.

  5. DMZ on March 26th, 2007 9:41 pm

    I accuse Corco of being Corco.

    The verdict? Guilty.

    Penalty? Being Corco.

  6. David J. Corcoran I on March 26th, 2007 9:43 pm

    105: Per comment 32, I’m helping conserve bandwidth.

  7. David J. Corcoran I on March 26th, 2007 9:44 pm

    And I didn’t get a fair trial. It was speedy, though.

  8. Johan Garpenlov on March 26th, 2007 9:53 pm

    105: LOLzers

  9. JI on March 26th, 2007 10:25 pm

    Worst. thread. ever.

  10. Johan Garpenlov on March 26th, 2007 10:36 pm

    Threads appear on forums. This is a blog post with comments.

  11. David J. Corcoran I on March 26th, 2007 10:39 pm

    110: But good sir, these are referred to as “Game Threads”

    I refer you to comment #33. Also, you could look for threads tagged “Game Threads,” much as this one.

    Johan, you are a crazy cat.

  12. David J. Corcoran I on March 26th, 2007 10:40 pm

    Actually, I have this hypothesis. Johan is not DMZ. It’s Coach Owens in disguise! Only Coach using his brain.

  13. david h on March 26th, 2007 10:44 pm

    Dave – while I agree with your 1400+ word argument for not carrying Morrow in the bigs right out of spring and think you wrote persuasivly enough to convince most rational people, your responses to arguments in this thread have mostly been as far off base as the arguments you are refuting:

    I would argue that the chance to familiarize himself with real mlb hitters is a better preparation for the starting rotation in 2008 and beyond, than pitching to AA hitters all year.

    Do you have any evidence of this being true?
    and
    This isn’t philosophy class. There are right answers.

    The common call here at USSM for evidence supporting an argument – this makes for a much better discussion, and the evidence you use normally makes it nearly impossible to disagree, but in this instance you haven’t put forth any evidence in support of your argument either. 1400+ words, and yet no evidence supporting the need to learn to start in the minors, which makes it seem odd to demand it here. You cite some thoroughly researched info regarding tangential issues like quality of competition, but nothing supporting the main thrust of your argument – that Morrow would be a better starter in the future if he learned to start in the minors. That is presented only as a philosophical/theoretical argument, and it seems appropriate for people to disagree for reasons not founded on a wealth of data. Certainly, you have undermined the premise of many of these arguments (like college v. professional competition, Zito’s minor league starts), but dismissing others simply because they lack statistical support doesn’t make sense here.

    Also, using the slippery slope argument regarding Corco’s TINSTAAPP point doesn’t really poke a hole in his argument. Since, as you acknowledge, Morrow is different than Tillman et al, there really isn’t a slope, just a bunch of steps, and your counter-argument assumes no one can recognize where one step ends and the other begins. Further, your original post is subject to the same criticism – you fear Morrow’s potential success as a reliever could lead the club to view him only as a reliever, but that fear would still exist with a mid-season call-up to the M’s pen – a plan you at least tolerate if not endorse.

    Finally, if random dude says “X is ready for the Majors,” and you say, “no he isn’t,” I think most people here trust your scouting/statistics ability to side with your opinion without you telling random dude he is ignorant and cannot possibly have a credible opinion. And in comment 24 you seem to suggest Corco doesn’t know Morrow is ready to pitch in the majors, but you said that he is “likely” to be an effective major league pitcher in your original article and implied that you think the M’s will be better this year with Morrow in the pen – Corco could be just trusting your opinion on Morrow’s readiness.

    And, in conclusion, you are wrong Corco. The M’s are stuck with Washburn, Batista, and Ramirez in ’08 – we absolutely need Morrow as quality starter.

  14. david h on March 26th, 2007 10:44 pm

    Crap. I even used the quicktags. What the hell went wrong???

  15. David J. Corcoran I on March 26th, 2007 10:49 pm

    Well, you hit the nail on the head anyway.

  16. david h on March 26th, 2007 10:52 pm

    thanks for the formatting touch up.

  17. Dave on March 26th, 2007 10:52 pm

    You had a couple open tags. I fixed them as best as I could, anyways.

    And yes, I’m well aware of the logical fallacies in my discussion with Corco. If I was talking to someone else, I’d have approached it differently. But its Corco, so he gets his own special blend of discussion.

  18. david h on March 26th, 2007 11:00 pm

    Makes perfect sense.

  19. okdan on March 26th, 2007 11:38 pm

    Not that I really expected anything different, but there’s no need to get ultra-defensive when someone questions the conclusions you draw, Dave. I’m just trying to have a discussion on a topic, that’s all.

  20. _David_ on March 26th, 2007 11:48 pm

    103 + 110 = weird.

  21. bongo on March 26th, 2007 11:50 pm

    BTW, Soriano is not the only ex-Mariner making an impression on the Atlanta Braves. Looks like TJ Bohn has a shot at making the team as a 4th or 5th outfielder. Anyone up for a guess as to how many players on last year’s 40-man roster will end up on the 25 man roster of another club?

  22. okdan on March 27th, 2007 12:13 am

    bongo, Where’d you find that info on Soriano? I’ve been casually keeping an eye out for any news lately, but haven’t had too much luck…

  23. Rain Delay on March 27th, 2007 6:30 am

    BTW, Soriano is not the only ex-Mariner making an impression on the Atlanta Braves. Looks like TJ Bohn has a shot at making the team as a 4th or 5th outfielder. Anyone up for a guess as to how many players on last year’s 40-man roster will end up on the 25 man roster of another club?

    Bohn has no hope of making the Braves roster. He was sent down already to Triple A Richmond. They sent him down over the weekend.

  24. Dave on March 27th, 2007 7:13 am

    Not that I really expected anything different, but there’s no need to get ultra-defensive when someone questions the conclusions you draw, Dave. I’m just trying to have a discussion on a topic, that’s all.

    We had a discussion on the topic. If you don’t like the way that I pointed out the inaccuracies in your beliefs, sorry.

  25. Oly Rainiers Fan on March 27th, 2007 7:15 am

    C’mon, new topic for Bill the Beerman? (That photo with the P-I article had beer being sold at Sonics games in 1976 for $1.25. What’s the inflation rate come out to?)

    As to Morrow, count me as firmly against going to the big-league club. I’d hate to see that mentality start ruling baseball, that college is some sort of equivalent. It’s not. Same game, but played with different equipment and under completely different circumstances. Is it worth it starting his clock early? Aren’t relievers a dime a dozen?

    As to ‘too quick promotions’, who read what Churchill had over on Prospect Insider, buried in the Jeff Clement as #2 prospect article? This little tidbit, equally applicable to pitchers as to position players:

    “It’s irresponsible to do what they (Mariners) did last year,” said a rival front office member. “They rushed their shortstop (Asdrubal Cabrera) before trading him, they rushed both catchers (Johnson, Clement) and they pushed Tui (Matt Tuiassosopo) far too quickly. They should know better, and I bet they do.

    “It really seems like they promoted those kids to make something that wasn’t there naturally. You can’t create value in your prospects that way, it’s going to catch up to them at some point, and they went o-fer with all of them. It’s not only counterproductive, it’s inexcusable and probably cost themselves and their players career time, or possible a career at all.

    “Clement probably was effected the most, since he had the most to lose. I’m telling you, if he’s handled properly, he’s still a big-time prospect and I’m really excited for his future.”

  26. em on March 27th, 2007 7:57 am

    Development is real. Morrow is talented, but he hasn’t been conditioned for a particular role at the ML level. The ability to leverage talent over a full pro season requires mental and physical conditioning, regardless of the talent level.

    Learning to be effective without going 100% on every pitch is not easy to do. Learning how and when to turn it up to 100% takes time.

    No, I didn’t learn this in pro ball, but I did learn it as a starting pitcher at the Division I and summer league level. I’ve competed against a lot of minor league and division I hitters, and I can tell you that seasoning makes all the difference. Experience trumps talent over the long haul, every time. Seasoning allows you to mentally engage every situation.

    Development is real.

  27. msb on March 27th, 2007 8:35 am

    for what it’s worth, McGrath has a column on Morrow today, with some quotes from Bavasi, who isn’t tipping his hand.

  28. PositivePaul on March 27th, 2007 9:31 am

    According to Gameday, Morrow threw 9 pitches to 6 batters. All but Laird, who walked on 4 pitches, hit his first pitch. But, wait, that doesn’t seem right. I remember him throwing two strikes at the knees of the last batter he faced, so never mind that.

    What I remember from watching him pitch was that he didn’t really seem to struggle with his poise and command too much. He seemed still under control on the mound out there, and didn’t look like he freaked out under the pressure.

    I’m still convinced that it’d be better for him to spend time in the minors to get prepped for the rotation. But he does seem to me to be ready to handle major league hitters.

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