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Red hot televised spring training action!
Seattle @ Texas! Whee! 6:05!
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Twittah
Damn.
There are a lot of no-brains out on the Internet. I think we’ve proved that to anyone’s satisfiaction….
I accuse Johan Garpenlov of being DMZ.
This is without a doubt one of the funniest, truest statements I’ve read in long time. This one comment makes the subscription worth it.
I accuse Corco of being Corco.
The verdict? Guilty.
Penalty? Being Corco.
105: Per comment 32, I’m helping conserve bandwidth.
And I didn’t get a fair trial. It was speedy, though.
105: LOLzers
Worst. thread. ever.
Threads appear on forums. This is a blog post with comments.
110: But good sir, these are referred to as “Game Threads”
I refer you to comment #33. Also, you could look for threads tagged “Game Threads,” much as this one.
Johan, you are a crazy cat.
Actually, I have this hypothesis. Johan is not DMZ. It’s Coach Owens in disguise! Only Coach using his brain.
Dave – while I agree with your 1400+ word argument for not carrying Morrow in the bigs right out of spring and think you wrote persuasivly enough to convince most rational people, your responses to arguments in this thread have mostly been as far off base as the arguments you are refuting:
The common call here at USSM for evidence supporting an argument – this makes for a much better discussion, and the evidence you use normally makes it nearly impossible to disagree, but in this instance you haven’t put forth any evidence in support of your argument either. 1400+ words, and yet no evidence supporting the need to learn to start in the minors, which makes it seem odd to demand it here. You cite some thoroughly researched info regarding tangential issues like quality of competition, but nothing supporting the main thrust of your argument – that Morrow would be a better starter in the future if he learned to start in the minors. That is presented only as a philosophical/theoretical argument, and it seems appropriate for people to disagree for reasons not founded on a wealth of data. Certainly, you have undermined the premise of many of these arguments (like college v. professional competition, Zito’s minor league starts), but dismissing others simply because they lack statistical support doesn’t make sense here.
Also, using the slippery slope argument regarding Corco’s TINSTAAPP point doesn’t really poke a hole in his argument. Since, as you acknowledge, Morrow is different than Tillman et al, there really isn’t a slope, just a bunch of steps, and your counter-argument assumes no one can recognize where one step ends and the other begins. Further, your original post is subject to the same criticism – you fear Morrow’s potential success as a reliever could lead the club to view him only as a reliever, but that fear would still exist with a mid-season call-up to the M’s pen – a plan you at least tolerate if not endorse.
Finally, if random dude says “X is ready for the Majors,” and you say, “no he isn’t,” I think most people here trust your scouting/statistics ability to side with your opinion without you telling random dude he is ignorant and cannot possibly have a credible opinion. And in comment 24 you seem to suggest Corco doesn’t know Morrow is ready to pitch in the majors, but you said that he is “likely” to be an effective major league pitcher in your original article and implied that you think the M’s will be better this year with Morrow in the pen – Corco could be just trusting your opinion on Morrow’s readiness.
And, in conclusion, you are wrong Corco. The M’s are stuck with Washburn, Batista, and Ramirez in ’08 – we absolutely need Morrow as quality starter.
Crap. I even used the quicktags. What the hell went wrong???
Well, you hit the nail on the head anyway.
thanks for the formatting touch up.
You had a couple open tags. I fixed them as best as I could, anyways.
And yes, I’m well aware of the logical fallacies in my discussion with Corco. If I was talking to someone else, I’d have approached it differently. But its Corco, so he gets his own special blend of discussion.
Makes perfect sense.
Not that I really expected anything different, but there’s no need to get ultra-defensive when someone questions the conclusions you draw, Dave. I’m just trying to have a discussion on a topic, that’s all.
103 + 110 = weird.
BTW, Soriano is not the only ex-Mariner making an impression on the Atlanta Braves. Looks like TJ Bohn has a shot at making the team as a 4th or 5th outfielder. Anyone up for a guess as to how many players on last year’s 40-man roster will end up on the 25 man roster of another club?
bongo, Where’d you find that info on Soriano? I’ve been casually keeping an eye out for any news lately, but haven’t had too much luck…
Bohn has no hope of making the Braves roster. He was sent down already to Triple A Richmond. They sent him down over the weekend.
Not that I really expected anything different, but there’s no need to get ultra-defensive when someone questions the conclusions you draw, Dave. I’m just trying to have a discussion on a topic, that’s all.
We had a discussion on the topic. If you don’t like the way that I pointed out the inaccuracies in your beliefs, sorry.
C’mon, new topic for Bill the Beerman? (That photo with the P-I article had beer being sold at Sonics games in 1976 for $1.25. What’s the inflation rate come out to?)
As to Morrow, count me as firmly against going to the big-league club. I’d hate to see that mentality start ruling baseball, that college is some sort of equivalent. It’s not. Same game, but played with different equipment and under completely different circumstances. Is it worth it starting his clock early? Aren’t relievers a dime a dozen?
As to ‘too quick promotions’, who read what Churchill had over on Prospect Insider, buried in the Jeff Clement as #2 prospect article? This little tidbit, equally applicable to pitchers as to position players:
Development is real. Morrow is talented, but he hasn’t been conditioned for a particular role at the ML level. The ability to leverage talent over a full pro season requires mental and physical conditioning, regardless of the talent level.
Learning to be effective without going 100% on every pitch is not easy to do. Learning how and when to turn it up to 100% takes time.
No, I didn’t learn this in pro ball, but I did learn it as a starting pitcher at the Division I and summer league level. I’ve competed against a lot of minor league and division I hitters, and I can tell you that seasoning makes all the difference. Experience trumps talent over the long haul, every time. Seasoning allows you to mentally engage every situation.
Development is real.
for what it’s worth, McGrath has a column on Morrow today, with some quotes from Bavasi, who isn’t tipping his hand.
According to Gameday, Morrow threw 9 pitches to 6 batters. All but Laird, who walked on 4 pitches, hit his first pitch. But, wait, that doesn’t seem right. I remember him throwing two strikes at the knees of the last batter he faced, so never mind that.
What I remember from watching him pitch was that he didn’t really seem to struggle with his poise and command too much. He seemed still under control on the mound out there, and didn’t look like he freaked out under the pressure.
I’m still convinced that it’d be better for him to spend time in the minors to get prepped for the rotation. But he does seem to me to be ready to handle major league hitters.