Comments on: My Last Morrow Post For A While http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/ Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:17:03 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Senior Octobre http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168256 Senior Octobre Thu, 29 Mar 2007 06:30:43 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168256 The kid has pitched in relief before, both at Cal and in the Cape Cod League. Dude throws 94-99 Mph and has spliter that rushes up there at 90-91. He has a slider that is effective and a change that he admits, needs alot of work. He'll be allright if he doesn't trot out there everyday or every other day all season. The thing is we know Batista has a rubber arm. He had like 78 appearances two years ago and saved 30 some games. Last year he tossed two hundred innings. We don't know if Morrow can bounce back. The kid has pitched in relief before, both at Cal and in the Cape Cod League. Dude throws 94-99 Mph and has spliter that rushes up there at 90-91. He has a slider that is effective and a change that he admits, needs alot of work. He’ll be allright if he doesn’t trot out there everyday or every other day all season. The thing is we know Batista has a rubber arm. He had like 78 appearances two years ago and saved 30 some games. Last year he tossed two hundred innings. We don’t know if Morrow can bounce back.

]]> By: Typical Idiot Fan http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168221 Typical Idiot Fan Thu, 29 Mar 2007 02:06:41 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168221 <em>Well, there was that high school kid, David Clyde, that Texas had start with no minor league experience.</em> Again, as a starter tho. Understand the situation: Morrow was a starter in his last year of college, so it stood to reason he could be a starter in the majors. The Mariners have not stretched him out at all in the minors for starting work, as he's never worked longer then 3 innings at a time. But now they're going to put him in as a relief arm, and stretch him out as a starter later. Or at least that's the theory. There's virtually no precedent for this. Taking young guys and putting them into the show immediately or soon after drafting isn't unusual. But taking a starter, making him a relief arm, then maybe making him a starter again, is pretty unheard of. Well, there was that high school kid, David Clyde, that Texas had start with no minor league experience.

Again, as a starter tho. Understand the situation: Morrow was a starter in his last year of college, so it stood to reason he could be a starter in the majors. The Mariners have not stretched him out at all in the minors for starting work, as he’s never worked longer then 3 innings at a time. But now they’re going to put him in as a relief arm, and stretch him out as a starter later. Or at least that’s the theory.

There’s virtually no precedent for this. Taking young guys and putting them into the show immediately or soon after drafting isn’t unusual. But taking a starter, making him a relief arm, then maybe making him a starter again, is pretty unheard of.

]]> By: Livengood http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168110 Livengood Wed, 28 Mar 2007 21:15:02 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168110 JMHawkins wrote: <blockquote>My thoughts exactly. So, if we’re dead set on keeping Morrow with the big club, why not go the distance and stick him in the rotation and let HoRam pitch out of the bullpen?</blockquote> Because Morrow has not been stretched out (even remotely) to start this year. He has only 8.1 IP this Spring (which, incidently, is the biggest tell that the M's plan to bring him north; if they were even half-contemplating sending him down, they would have started letting him throw more innings to stretch him out to be a starter in the minors, whose season begins in early April, too). I am <em>strongly</em> in the "send him down and keep him as a starter" camp, but one thing I've wondered about and haven't seen mentioned in this discussion is whether Morrow's injury history is part of the equation here. This guy has had some trouble staying healthy, both in college and last year, and I wonder if they think they might be better able to monitor his health as a reliever than as a starter? JMHawkins wrote:

My thoughts exactly. So, if we’re dead set on keeping Morrow with the big club, why not go the distance and stick him in the rotation and let HoRam pitch out of the bullpen?

Because Morrow has not been stretched out (even remotely) to start this year. He has only 8.1 IP this Spring (which, incidently, is the biggest tell that the M’s plan to bring him north; if they were even half-contemplating sending him down, they would have started letting him throw more innings to stretch him out to be a starter in the minors, whose season begins in early April, too).

I am strongly in the “send him down and keep him as a starter” camp, but one thing I’ve wondered about and haven’t seen mentioned in this discussion is whether Morrow’s injury history is part of the equation here. This guy has had some trouble staying healthy, both in college and last year, and I wonder if they think they might be better able to monitor his health as a reliever than as a starter?

]]> By: Paul B http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168063 Paul B Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:42:49 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168063 Well, there was that high school kid, David Clyde, that Texas had start with no minor league experience. That didn't work out so good. Well, there was that high school kid, David Clyde, that Texas had start with no minor league experience.

That didn’t work out so good.

]]> By: Typical Idiot Fan http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168051 Typical Idiot Fan Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:54:39 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168051 <em>I don’t think it has been done very often that a team takes a prospective starter and puts him into the majors as a reliever and all without 20 innings worth of professional ball under his belt.</em> "Then turned him back into a starter." I figured it was implied, but just in case. I don’t think it has been done very often that a team takes a prospective starter and puts him into the majors as a reliever and all without 20 innings worth of professional ball under his belt.

“Then turned him back into a starter.”

I figured it was implied, but just in case.

]]> By: Typical Idiot Fan http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168047 Typical Idiot Fan Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:34:34 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168047 <em><blockquote>Good News - Bavasi isn’t yet pigeonholing Morrow as a reliever, talking about coming up with a plan to still attempt to develop him as a starter in other ways. Of course, the M’s paid this same lip service to Rafael Soriano as well, so it’s good news with a caveat. </blockquote></em> Soriano doesn't quite equate. Nothing the Mariners has done before equates to this. In fact, there's very little precedent for what the Mariners are (maybe) about to do. A few posts back you mentioned four guys put into the majors with little experience, but they were all drafted as / or were slated to be relief arms. Jim Abbott was plunked virtually into the majors from the get go, but he was a starter his entire college career and remained as such in the majors. I don't think it has been done very often that a team takes a prospective starter and puts him into the majors as a reliever and all without 20 innings worth of professional ball under his belt. Because of this, I don't think we can really speculate what the hell will happen to this kid. I think we can safely say he'll be a respectable bullpen arm, but will this really stunt his growth as a potential starter? Can this experiment in "teaching backwards" (if you will) work and / or should it be attmepted? With other starting prospects like Feierabend, Thomas, Butler, and Tillman, and young Felix here with us for quite some time, is Morrow's destiny pre-ordained anyway? I'm just asking questions here. I'm not disagreeing with anything you (Dave) or Jeff Sullivan has said, becuase you both know your stuff and have years of data and analysis to back up your opinions on the traditional makeup of starting pitcher prospects. But isn't this experiment worth a try?
Good News – Bavasi isn’t yet pigeonholing Morrow as a reliever, talking about coming up with a plan to still attempt to develop him as a starter in other ways. Of course, the M’s paid this same lip service to Rafael Soriano as well, so it’s good news with a caveat.

Soriano doesn’t quite equate. Nothing the Mariners has done before equates to this. In fact, there’s very little precedent for what the Mariners are (maybe) about to do. A few posts back you mentioned four guys put into the majors with little experience, but they were all drafted as / or were slated to be relief arms. Jim Abbott was plunked virtually into the majors from the get go, but he was a starter his entire college career and remained as such in the majors. I don’t think it has been done very often that a team takes a prospective starter and puts him into the majors as a reliever and all without 20 innings worth of professional ball under his belt.

Because of this, I don’t think we can really speculate what the hell will happen to this kid. I think we can safely say he’ll be a respectable bullpen arm, but will this really stunt his growth as a potential starter? Can this experiment in “teaching backwards” (if you will) work and / or should it be attmepted?

With other starting prospects like Feierabend, Thomas, Butler, and Tillman, and young Felix here with us for quite some time, is Morrow’s destiny pre-ordained anyway?

I’m just asking questions here. I’m not disagreeing with anything you (Dave) or Jeff Sullivan has said, becuase you both know your stuff and have years of data and analysis to back up your opinions on the traditional makeup of starting pitcher prospects. But isn’t this experiment worth a try?

]]> By: msb http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168045 msb Wed, 28 Mar 2007 07:36:45 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168045 I got to listen to Jeff Nelson on two different shows explain that it didn't matter whether Morrow was in the pen or starting, that the team needed him to help them get wins this year, and that was more important. Morrow can always start next year. I got to listen to Jeff Nelson on two different shows explain that it didn’t matter whether Morrow was in the pen or starting, that the team needed him to help them get wins this year, and that was more important. Morrow can always start next year.

]]> By: JMHawkins http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168024 JMHawkins Wed, 28 Mar 2007 04:03:05 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168024 <i>...there is no way that Ramirez or Weaver make it through the year in the starting rotation. By mid-summer we’ll be DYING to get some help from somewhere.</i> My thoughts exactly. So, if we're dead set on keeping Morrow with the big club, why not go the distance and stick him in the rotation and let HoRam pitch out of the bullpen? I mean, he's got Soriano's roster spot, let him do Soriano's job. I'm so fed up with the way this team manages itself. …there is no way that Ramirez or Weaver make it through the year in the starting rotation. By mid-summer we’ll be DYING to get some help from somewhere.

My thoughts exactly. So, if we’re dead set on keeping Morrow with the big club, why not go the distance and stick him in the rotation and let HoRam pitch out of the bullpen? I mean, he’s got Soriano’s roster spot, let him do Soriano’s job.

I’m so fed up with the way this team manages itself.

]]> By: colm http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168021 colm Wed, 28 Mar 2007 03:45:37 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168021 I think the big question is: Is this worth the risk to Morrow today? Or should the Mariners wait until tomorrow? I think the big question is:
Is this worth the risk to Morrow today?
Or should the Mariners wait until tomorrow?

]]> By: Choska http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-168020 Choska Wed, 28 Mar 2007 03:31:10 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/03/27/my-last-morrow-post-for-a-while/#comment-168020 I agree with Jeff Sullivan's comment that, given Grover's habit of making the wrong decision with gusto, we should automatically do the opposite of whatever he says. Sending Morrow down to AA/AAA to get in some work will give us a slight chance of brining him up in August. Why is that important? Because there is no way that Ramirez or Weaver make it through the year in the starting rotation. By mid-summer we'll be DYING to get some help from somewhere. Starting Morrow in AA/AAA keeps alive the slight possibility of bringing him up. Finding a good bullpen on the cheap and off the scrap heap is a talent that our GM should have. The fact that we are freaking out this late in March about our pen is Prosecution Exhibit #86 for why Bavasi isn't the right guy to lead this club. Stats so far this spring Soriano: 8 IP, 12 Ks, Ramirez: 12.1 IP, 4 Ks, (not including today's disaster) Morrow: 8.1 IP, 8 Ks The fact that we are having this discussion about Morrow at all is infuriating. All it tells me is that Hargrove and Bavasi will burn down the house in order to save their jobs. I agree with Jeff Sullivan’s comment that, given Grover’s habit of making the wrong decision with gusto, we should automatically do the opposite of whatever he says.

Sending Morrow down to AA/AAA to get in some work will give us a slight chance of brining him up in August. Why is that important? Because there is no way that Ramirez or Weaver make it through the year in the starting rotation. By mid-summer we’ll be DYING to get some help from somewhere. Starting Morrow in AA/AAA keeps alive the slight possibility of bringing him up.

Finding a good bullpen on the cheap and off the scrap heap is a talent that our GM should have. The fact that we are freaking out this late in March about our pen is Prosecution Exhibit #86 for why Bavasi isn’t the right guy to lead this club.

Stats so far this spring

Soriano: 8 IP, 12 Ks,
Ramirez: 12.1 IP, 4 Ks, (not including today’s disaster)
Morrow: 8.1 IP, 8 Ks

The fact that we are having this discussion about Morrow at all is infuriating. All it tells me is that Hargrove and Bavasi will burn down the house in order to save their jobs.

]]>