Talent Overload in Appleton
A Future Forty update is coming tomorrow, as I wanted to confirm all the minor league rosters before putting it out there, but since the Future Forty threads often turn into discussions about a specific player, I wanted to give this its own post.
The Wisconsin Timber Rattlers have more prospects on their roster than any team I can remember in Mariner history. This team is loaded with guys who at least have a shot at a major league future, and basically every exciting young talent in the system has been sent to Appleton.
The rotation contains Tony Butler, Chris Tillman, Nathan Adcock, Anthony Varvaro, and Ricky Orta. Tillman, Butler, Orta, and Adcock were the M’s selections in the second, third, fourth, and fifth rounds respectively last summer, and Anthony Varvaro would have been a second or third round pick in the 2005 draft had he not undergone Tommy John surgery. Orta and Adcock are more fringy prospects at this point, but even they have some potential, and Butler/Tillman/Varvaro is an outstanding trio of arms. Steve Uhlmansiek, another TJ recovery guy, will work out of the bullpen.
On the offensive side, SS Carlos Triunfel will make his professional debut as a 17-year-old in the Midwest League, making him likely to be the youngest player in the league this year. He’ll be joined by Alex Liddi, Kuo-Hui Lo, Greg Halman, Gerardo Avila, and Kalian Sams to form a very talented young line-up. Of that group, only Sams won’t appear on the Future Forty, and all but Sams and Avila are among the organizations best offensive prospects.
Butler, Tillman, Varvaro, Triunfel, Liddi, Halman, and Lo are essentially the cream of the crop in terms of low-level talent in the organization, and they’re all going to be playing together in Wisconsin this year. If you’re anywhere near a Midwest League city, you want to make sure to make it to the ballpark when the T-Rats roll into town. The next wave of talent headed towards Seattle will be on full display.
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Im glad you made a topic on this.
I was really excited about how their team was forming towards the end of ST…I was gonna watch their games this year, but completely forgot once the MLB season got under way.
Thanks for the reminder…
I cannot wait to see Truinfel.
Just think how much past-it veteran leadership we can turn these guys into!
I say we trade every single name on this list for Sammy Sosa after he wins Comback Player of the Year.
Good to see that the talent pool is being refilled after Pat Gillick used it as a skateboard park.
So Dave, how does the pitching compare to the 2003 Missions squad? I remember we had some good feelings about those guys.
The Missions pitching staff was better, but their offense was mostly minor league vets and organizational players. This year’s T-Rats have two premium arms, another good arm, and the two highest upside bats in the system.
Higher upside than Clement and Jones, Dave? That’s kinda scary.
I’d love to hear more about Triunfel. I’ve heard him described as Rafael Furcal with power; that sounds like a bit of hyperbole but there must be something there.
Jones has a lot of upside as a player, but less when viewed just as a hitter. If he was, say, a first baseman, he’d be a pretty ordinary prospect. His value comes from being able to play center field and run well.
Clement and Liddi are actually similar upside guys – Clement is obviously a lot closer to the majors – as power hitters who probably won’t be high average guys. Liddi’s a much higher risk guy, but just on upside, they’re pretty similar.
Triunfel’s easily got the most offensive potential of any hitter in the organization. I can’t overstate just how awesome he looked in Peoria.
Has anything changed since last year in the M’s policy in moving players throw the system faster than any other organization in baseball? Basically, can we expect to see any of these guys in Tacoma by the end of the year?
Am I missing something in regards to Orta? Dave, you describe him as another fringe prospect, his career numbers don’t jump out at you, yet the M’s took him in the 4th round?!?!?!
I’ve been excited about this prospect all of the late winter, hoping the M’s would assign all the players it seemed they were going to assign to the Midwest League.
I’ve got tickets to all the Cedar Rapids games next week, so am excited that it has come through. If anyone wants me to look out for any specific things and report on them, let me know.
Aha. I misinterpreted ‘bats’ as ‘position players’ rather than taking it as ‘bats’. Oops.
I’d love to hear more about Triunfel. I’ve heard him described as Rafael Furcal with power; that sounds like a bit of hyperbole but there must be something there.
He doesn’t look anything like Furcal. His body type is totally different.
He’s about 5′10/180 or so with a fairly thick lower half. Physically, he looks more like Andruw Jones than Furcal. He’s already got fairly well developed legs, and if his upper body fills out in a similar fashion, he’s probably not a long term shortstop.
His swing also didn’t remind me of Furcal at all. Pure, line drive stroke, very quick hands, and great natural power. The ball leaps off his bat.
Obviously, this is all extremely premature, but he looked a lot more like a Tejada/Cabrera type player. I really doubt he’s going to be a speed/defense type player.
Has anything changed since last year in the M’s policy in moving players throw the system faster than any other organization in baseball? Basically, can we expect to see any of these guys in Tacoma by the end of the year?
They aren’t going to promote guys as fast this year, but not necessarily due to a philosophical change as much as just the lack of opportunity. They’ve pushed the kids up the ladder so quickly, there’s nowhere for them to go. They’ve got a lot of players who they want to play and limited at-bats at the four full-season ball spots for them. So, in all likelyhood, I’d expect to see far fewer promotions this year, and no, there’s no chance any of the Wisconsin kids end up in Tacoma.
However, some of these initial assignments are still very aggressive. The T-Rats have 11 guys on the roster who are 20 or younger, including 6 teenagers. Most teams in the MWL will have two or three teenagers at most, and they’re generally going to be no-hit/all-glove types. The M’s are still pushing kids rapidly through the system, but this year, its more initial placement than midseason promotions.
Am I missing something in regards to Orta? Dave, you describe him as another fringe prospect, his career numbers don’t jump out at you, yet the M’s took him in the 4th round?!?!?!
Orta was a reliever in college who didn’t pitch particularly well for the University of Miami. Fontaine likes his arm, and they’re using him in the rotation to see what they’ve got, but I still don’t love that pick.
What do you know of Mario Martinez? I have he’s almost as good of a prospect as Carlos Triunfel.
Sorry, I meant I have heard he’s almost as good of a prospect as Carlos Triunfel.
I didn’t see Martinez when I was in Peoria, but weirdly enough, he was listed on the minor league roster as an infielder. Just a typo, I’m sure.
Basically, we know he’s a guy they like a lot – he signed for $600,000 last summer – and he’s going to start the year in extended spring training. If he performs well down there, or one of Wisconsin’s outfielders get hurt, he could show up in Appleton. But I don’t have any first hand observations, unfortunately.
WOW, I live in Appleton WI. I have been to Fox Cities Stadium and seen a bunch of T-Rats games. This piece blow’s my mind. I saw A-Rod in here back when they were the Appleton Foxes. I guess its a small world when your a M’s fan. Anyway keep up the great work. Hopefully Batista can give us a sweep over our natural enemy.
P.S.- Did You Know that Jim Leyland was once the coach here for the Foxes way back in the 60’s.
I’m in Tennessee…who should I be watching for on the Diamond Jaxx?
Kalian Sams, by the way, is built like a tank. I don’t know that much about him – signed for $100,000 a few years ago, had some discipline issues – and his bat looked a little slow in Peoria, but he looks like a prize fighter.
i have a bone to pick. why is it that when i write something it doesn’t appear in the blog?
With the team changing affiliations in the minors, how do the new parks play compared to Safeco? With Safeco being an extreme pitchers park, do you think that the M’s should look into affiliations with similar parks?
Hmmmm … USS Mariner road trip, anyone?
Dave, is our “favorite player,” Casey Craig, still in the system? His personality issues aside, has he made any strides in growth as a player?
I’m in Tennessee…who should I be watching for on the Diamond Jaxx?
It’s easily the least interesting team in the system. There are a few guys of interest, but overall, it’s pretty bare.
Kam Mickolio (pronounced Mik-eye-oh) is a 6′9 groundball machine who the M’s think they stole in the 18th round last summer. He throws on a severe downward plane and puts some sink on a two-seam fastball, and he’ll probably be one of the most extreme groundball guys in the minors. The secondary pitches and command need work, though. The push to Double-A is extremely aggressive, and it will be interesting to see how he handles it.
Tui will be your third baseman. If he doesn’t figure out how to hit this year, his career is essentially over.
Mike Wilson will be hanging out in the outfield crushing fastballs and still getting bewildered by breaking balls. He’ll hit some impressive home runs from time to time, though.
And that’s about it.
With the team changing affiliations in the minors, how do the new parks play compared to Safeco? With Safeco being an extreme pitchers park, do you think that the M’s should look into affiliations with similar parks?
The M’s got screwed on the affiliation shuffle this year. High Desert is the most hitter friendly park on the planet. It’s what Coors Field would be with a short porch and high winds. It’s crazy, and if the staff posts an ERA under 5.00, it will be a success.
Hopefully the M’s can get out of there in two years. It will be an adventure, that’s for sure.
Dave, is our “favorite player,” Casey Craig, still in the system? His personality issues aside, has he made any strides in growth as a player?
He’s grown, that’s for sure. He could now be nicely described as portly. He’ll be headed to High Desert for another trip through the Cal League.
I live in Appleton! I have been to Fox Cities Stadium. I have seen alot of present and past M’s play here. I find it great that you guys even know where A-Town is. While you guys get the pro’s i’ll take the rookies any day.
P.S.- Jim Leyland was once the head coach of the A-Town Foxes back in the 60’s.
Where is Austin Bibbins-Dirx (sp?)?
I am totally against Brandon Morrow being in the pen. I feel that it is pushing back his development time as a SP especially since he’s had limited innings in college as a starter. I feel that there will be two things that can come out of it. 1) If he goes lights out, how can you tell him that he needs to be sent down to work on starting? 2) If he does not do well and gets hammered, are we going to see Clint Nageotte all over again? I live in MN and so I was not able to see his performance. How did he do?
Morrow looked a bit nervous and probably overthrew a bit. He didn’t throw a lot of strikes, but the ones he did throw looked great.
Threadjacking! Whoop, whoop!
How much different is the difficulty level between the league Everett is in (short season A-) and the difficulty of the league Wisconsin is in.(A- league). How much different is the difficulty between Wisconsin(A-) and High Desert(A+)?
Is it threadjacking if Morrow is on the future 40? =)
Score! I’ll be up yonder in June. I’ll certainly catch a game.
Where is Austin Bibbins-Dirx (sp?)?
FREE AUSTIN BIBENS-DIRKX!!!!
High Desert, or so I’ve heard. Which will really be a test for him.
I’ve had some conversations with Dave about him right after we drafted him (and I saw him pitch in Tacoma). I’m curious to see if/how Dave’s thoughts have changed on Austin. Especially since Dave’s sorta the Simon Cowell of the M’s blogosphere on prospects.
There’s a good map of the Midwest League cities at http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/maps/smallmap.php?l_id=44 (this was the first site Gooogle turned up), if you want figure out which teams are near you or places you might be.
Dave,
You sound pretty certain that Truinfel will make a move down the defensive spectrum. If so, how far down? Does he have the defense to stick at third, or will he have to move to LF/1B? And what is the current opinion of his defense and speed?
I haven’t gotten ahold of a final High Desert roster yet, but yea, it sounds like he’s going to pitching hell.
I guess we’ll see with Dirkx – I generally prefer pitchers with good stuff rather than guys with deceptive deliveries, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he cruised through the minors.
You sound pretty certain that Truinfel will make a move down the defensive spectrum. If so, how far down? Does he have the defense to stick at third, or will he have to move to LF/1B? And what is the current opinion of his defense and speed?
I didn’t get to see him play defense in Peoria, so I’m not going to make any kind of firm conclusions about his defense. He looks like he’s going to outgrow shortstop, and the M’s are probably more concerned with how a player looks than most organizations, so yes, I’d probably bet on him shifting to 2nd or 3rd eventually.
We need to wait and see how he handles SS in game action before drawing any real conclusions, though. He could have a great first step or insane reaction times. We just don’t know yet.
so how did I miss that Jim Horner & Lance Painter were coaching the Rattlers since last season?
I love these threads. Prospect discussion is one of the key reasons I come here.
Dave,
Any risk of ‘Age-gate’ with Truinfel? He’s got amazing raw talent, but he sounds pretty advanced for a 17 year old.
Orta in the rotation but Uhlmansiek in the pen? That’s odd.
Jeff Clement is sharing time with Rob Johnson in Tacoma again, and now they have four outfielders. Who gets the bulk of the DH time?
It seems like ‘age-gate’ is a thing of the past, due to tighter immigration/visa standards post 9/11.
What’s behind the decision to use Orta as a starter? His college numbers aren’t particularly impressive, and even at Miami he was mostly a reliever.
Any risk of ‘Age-gate’ with Truinfel? He’s got amazing raw talent, but he sounds pretty advanced for a 17 year old.
No – there are rumors that several of the big name bonus guys from last summer are older than listed, but no one’s questioning Triunfel’s age. He’s got the face of a 17-year-old, there’s no doubt about that.
So I get mixed messages from you, Dave. This post obviously says the M’s are finally getting it right as far as restocking the minors.
I can’t help but to wonder if another solid draft while these guys start rising up through the Minors might be, not only a boon to the program, but a great indication that Bavasi is truly the man for the job.
For example– while I and generally everyone else is displeased with the offseason moves, they are not an indication of dispair, but instead are temporary solutions to larger issues that were looming for years.
And those issues are now being taken care of naturally due to the rapid promotion and reclamation project that Bavasi has undertaken in regards to our minors.
The speedy promotions may have in fact been risky, but once the minors are restocked with youthful talent (and which appears is rapidly occuring), wouldn’t it be safe to assume the rapid promotions will slow somewhat once there are legitimate prospects in front of the promotee?
I’m hoping perhaps Hargrove will be gone but MAYBE, and that is a tentative maybe, Bavasi should stick around and watch the seeds of his minor league efforts come to fruition. (Assuming he doesn’t trade any true prospects away for spare parts the remainder of 07.
I just get the feeling right now that sometimes we are very shortsighted in regards to future while looking at the present. And while I dislike the trading of Soriano and Snelling, in comparison to the many trades (and not trades while value was incredibly high on the “Little Unit” etc.) during the Gillick Era that a couple bad trades is worth the price of restocking the barren system.
I’d rather have 4 prospects go when creating 20+ prospects, than give up 1 or 0 while creating 2 prospects per year, and none of them high level.
So I get mixed messages from you, Dave. This post obviously says the M’s are finally getting it right as far as restocking the minors.
My position for the last several years has been the same – Bavasi’s done a very solid job adding talent to the farm system, and the next GM should reap the rewards of the increased focus on player development that the organization has experienced during his tenure as GM.
I can’t help but to wonder if another solid draft while these guys start rising up through the Minors might be, not only a boon to the program, but a great indication that Bavasi is truly the man for the job.
He’s not the only guy on earth who can emphasize the draft and amateur signings. He is the only guy on earth who would trade for Jose Vidro and throw ridiculous amounts of money at Jarrod Washburn.
I just get the feeling right now that sometimes we are very shortsighted in regards to future while looking at the present. And while I dislike the trading of Soriano and Snelling, in comparison to the many trades (and not trades while value was incredibly high on the “Little Unit” etc.) during the Gillick Era that a couple bad trades is worth the price of restocking the barren system.
If you read my rantings during the time when Pat Gillick ran this team, you know that I couldn’t have been happier to see him leave. He burned this organization to the ground on his way out the door, and I’ve laid more blame for the struggles of this decade at his feet than pretty much any other writer alive.
So, better than Gillick isn’t much of a compliment, I’m afraid.
Bavasi’s done an above average job of managing the farm system while he’s been here. But his horrible track record at the major league level should be enough to cost him his job. It isn’t an either/or situation. If the M’s are smart enough to hire someone like Chris Antonetti, they can both build through the farm system and acquire good major league players.
I totally understand where you are coming from there, Dave. My only fear is we don’t get the right person, such as you perceive Antonetti to be. And also, let’s remember until there is a track record we are merely adding conjecture that there will be success for any as of yet unhired individual.
My fear is unless Lincoln moves on, the next person may not be who we perceive as the right person, and could be a hell of a lot worse.
If Bavasi is behind the Hargrove hire and keeping him this year, if he is behind the motivation for the trades, then perhaps it is time.
However, if Lincoln is pulling the strings (which I suspect is the case), but Bavasi is willing to concede in some areas while drastically rebuilding and improving the minors, then perhaps there isn’t a better person.
Maybe he is an expert at damage control and making the best of the modest hand Lincoln appears to continually deal. And perhaps someone such as Antonelli, who you perceive (and rightfully so) to be a great GM prospect would not play the same hand dealt by Lincoln as effectively as does Bavasi, even if he has potentially superior GM potential.
I realize this is speculation of course, and that you may know more than us as far as true inner working of the FO, but I just am afraid that the next could be worse, much worse, considering the past track record of the individual Bavasi calls his boss.
I totally understand where you are coming from there, Dave. My only fear is we don’t get the right person, such as you perceive Antonetti to be. And also, let’s remember until there is a track record we are merely adding conjecture that there will be success for any as of yet unhired individual.
Sure, there’s certainly a valid fear that the M’s could hire someone worse than Bavasi. But I don’t think we can let that fear stop us from moving towards an optimal management team. We shouldn’t not attempt to get better out of worry that we might get worse.
And I’d argue that Antonetti has quite a track record with Cleveland. Being an Asst. GM isn’t the same thing as running a franchise, but we have a large amount of decisions and philosophies that have been established under his watch that we can be relatively sure that he’ll bring to whatever GM job he ends up taking. His body of work to date is extremely impressive.
I also think that, while criticism of Armstrong and Lincoln can be warrented, their influence is generally overstated and this organization can win with them involved. The Mariners did pretty well from ‘95 to ‘02 with those guys in prominant leadership positions.
And I think part of a GM’s job is to be able to influence his superiors into making better decisions, rather than accepting their misconceptions as inevitable. For instance, J.P. Ricciardi (who I’m not a huge fan of, incidentally) blew away the Blue Jays in his interview for their position with an impressive plan to completely overhaul the organization and was hired to replace older-than-old-school Gord Ash. He convinced management to go in an entirely new direction and get on board with what he felt was the best plan for the Blue Jays as a franchise.
If Bill Bavasi is unable to convince management that trading for Jose Vidro is a terrible idea, then that’s a failure of his responsibilities, just as much so as if he’s totally on board with the decision (which I’m pretty sure he is).
Dave- Choo seemed like a no-brainer to be traded in a deadline deal last year, any guys like that in the system right now? Anyone other than Reed/Broussard?
Not really – they thinned out the upper levels of the system pretty effectively by dumping Choo, Cabrera, Snelling, Fruto, and Cruceta for nothing. It’s still a matter of just waiting for Reed to be traded, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Baek gets dealt if he puts together another strong month or two in Tacoma, but besides the obvious, there aren’t too many guys down on the farm who are just auditioning for other clubs.
Dave-
Weeks ago, I believe you said that we were really close to dealing Reed. Now that it didn’t materialize, any chance you can reveal what might have happened?
Ah ha. Comment #39
ussmariner.com/2006/11/20/mondays-signings-rumors/#comments
Was this just referring to Arroyo?
So we all agree Vidro was a horrible solution to the M’s obvious need. We all agree that Bavasi did us (the fans) and the M’s organization wrong by bringing him in.
How stuck with Vidro are we? Bavasi cut what’s his name loose last year. Can we hope for more of the same this year (with me guessing that Jose
Woa. 3/4 of my post evaporated. That sucks.
Basically, I ranted that this M’s team is a candidate to form into a “synergy”, defined as a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. Hargrove and Bavasi could reap the benefits of a team that wins in spite of their “intuitive” influence, and we get stuck with them indefinitely.
I was wondering if Vidro gets axed if the M’s win in spite of him? Bavasi wouldn’t lose as much face then.
Well said. And I do agree with you for the most part. I’m just so afraid that change however justified can lead to negative leadership.
Call it an after-effect of growing up a Northwest sport fan.
But yet I continue to be hopeful, even if that is unwise at times given past history.
#46: Cutting Everett was cheap: they ate the 1-year salary and buyout for the option year. Vidro has $16m guaranteed coming to him over the next two years. No one will take that albatross of a contract off Bavasi’s hands for a guy with no defensive ability who put up a 100+ OPS in the NL last year.
Get used to his vetran (sic) presence in the lineup.
Good to see that the talent pool is being refilled after Pat Gillick used it as a skateboard park.
You should blame Frank Mattox, and Roger Jongewaard, not Pat Gillick. That skateboard park Gillick provided us with delivered King Felix, Jose Lopez, J.J. Putz, and indirectly Yuniesky Betancourt. Without Gillick you have no Bob Engle. I can’t begin to imagine how bad this team would be without those players.
Please. Pat Gillick thought first-round draft picks weren’t worth the money. Look where that got us.
I heard the Mariners scouts were comparing Tillman to a Mark Buerhle or a Jon Garland? Is this true? Because if he pitches that way in real life, well, I definitely wouldn’t mind it.
Calderon, think of all the players we DON’T have because of Gillick, not the 3.5 we do have. Yes, Felix is royalty, but you spend a decade with a team, shouldn’t you pull more than 3.5 players that are defendable as legitimate players to be with the current roster?
Well, I still hate what Gillick did to the team, too, but you can’t deny that no matter how badly he and his crew screwed up in the draft, he and his crew at least should get SOME credit back for their work on the international market. They really did go after and get a lot of their current ML home-grown talent on the international market.
Good point, PP, but think how flush the whole Mariners organization would have been today if he would have put a few million more per year into American talent and the draft (along with not signing FA’s before the date when the draft pick is lost for the signing)
… the ROI would have been fantastic, and the team/minors could have been flush with upper level talent for years.
Find me a perfect GM and I’ll show you a dynasty.
That said, Gillick was a MORON.
Please. Pat Gillick thought first-round draft picks weren’t worth the money. Look where that got us.
It got us 90+ wins a season and a shot at post-season play every year Gillick was in Seattle. The same cannot be said for Bavasi.
Adam Jones, a compensatory pick, didn’t turn out too shabby. Non-first round picks Feierabend, O’Flaherty, and Livingston all have good chances to become big leaguers.
It’s well documented Gillick clashed with the meddling Chuck Armstrong, and still had success.
I think we both agree we should have gotten more than a division title, but there were many outside factors working against Gillick during that time period.
I heard that Yuni got an extension today. Any word on the numbers? Any opinions of it from Dave or Derek?
Good point, PP, but think how flush the whole Mariners organization would have been today if he would have put a few million more per year into American talent and the draft
Blame Chuck Armstrong for that. One of his many hats is possessing the club’s financial keys.
Why else would a good Scouting Director pass up better arms than Brandon Morrow in last year’s draft? Like Lincecum, and Miller. They allegedly scared off the team with high signing bonuses. Yet the team didn’t hesitate to bid $10-$13 million on Kei Igawa.
as long as there’s threadjacking going on…
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#57: I’m with you. Too much Gillick bashing, too much Bavasi love. They were just good at different things, and one of them (Gillick) is not very personable while the other one (Bavasi) is. Personable gets too much play for him here. Is the goal of the GM to a) get the big club into the playoffs? b) ensure steady stream of talent in the farm system, c) both. It’s c, of course, and it’s all about striking a balance between the two. Our approach is clearly unbalanced; small market teams like the As and the Twins who are manging to do both to some degree, successfully year in and year out, are forced to have the right balance by circumstances. Maybe throwing LESS money at the big league roster would have forced this organization to pull it’s head out of its’ ass and try to come up with an approach to achieving the right balance, instead of swinging back and forth on the pendulum.
It got us 90+ wins a season and a shot at post-season play every year Gillick was in Seattle. The same cannot be said for Bavasi.
It also got us 2004 to 2006. Gillick burned any chances this team had to contend on his way out the door.
Adam Jones, a compensatory pick, didn’t turn out too shabby. Non-first round picks Feierabend, O’Flaherty, and Livingston all have good chances to become big leaguers.
Jones worked out, but given the amount of extraordinarily risky picks, it was inevitable that one of them would. Feierabend is a solid, unspectacular prospect, the kind that every organization drafts every year. O’Flaherty is a LOOGY, and Livingston’s not a major league player. So we’ve got two and a half good picks.
Contrast that with the worst draft of all time. The only major league player we selected in 2002 was T.J. Bohn, who isn’t really a major leaguer. Well, we also drafted Travis Buck, but didn’t sign him. But good luck finding a worse top ten than Mayberry (not signed), Womack, Martinez-Esteve (not signed), Frye, Bergdall, Cate, Bastida-Martinez, Perry, Forbes, and Stitt. They basically lit money on fire.
Of course, that draft was only slightly worse than this one in terms of talent added, but is arguably a bigger wasted opportunity since the club had two compensatory picks for losing A-Rod. Garciaparra, Rivera, Wilson, Abreu, Merritt, Livingston, Cole, Ockerman, Axford, Ellena, Blood, and Hintz in the first ten rounds.
Those drafts suck. So did the 2000 draft, where the best player we took was Chip Ambres. Of course, they forfeited their first three draft picks that year, so Mattox gets a bit of a pass for this clunker.
That’s a three year run where the M’s just completely whiffed on the draft. They didn’t get one ounce of value out of 150 selections over a three year period. That kind of ineptitude is remarkable.
It’s well documented Gillick clashed with the meddling Chuck Armstrong, and still had success.
He mortgaged the franchise’s future to win while he was in charge, then left it to others to clean up his mess. What a hero.
Please, no more talk of those three drafts. It makes me ill.
Dave,
Going all the way back to post 7, are you saying Liddi has a higher ceiling as a hitter than Halman?
“If you’re anywhere near a Midwest League city, you want to make sure to make it to the ballpark when the T-Rats roll into town. The next wave of talent headed towards Seattle will be on full display.”
I live right near where the Quad City Swing play, so I’ll definitely have to check these boys out when they roll into town.
Going all the way back to post 7, are you saying Liddi has a higher ceiling as a hitter than Halman?
Yea, I like Liddi more than Halman offensively. Halman could make up the difference with his glove, and they’re similarly valuable prospects, but just on offense, I’d prefer Liddi.
Kind of a more broad question: How can this GM and his management team be so TERRIBLE at evaluating major league talent in their trades and signings, but be half way decent with their evaluating of rough and undeveloped talent for their drafts? Is there more political issues driving their decisions on the major league level? Is it just he has better advisors and scouts helping on the draft than helping in the trades and signings?
It seems like team Bavasi has gotten better with their drafts each year, but increasingly worse with their Major league trades and signings.