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Time to pray
Dave · April 18, 2007 at 8:10 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Felix left tonights game with “tightness in his right elbow”. That’s about the worst news possible. Now we just hold our breaths and hope like crazy, because without Felix, rooting for this team is about as much fun as having your eyelids ripped out.
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My eyelids already got ripped out….Seriously, baseball gods, what did we do to deserve this?
Please just let it be stiffness from the cold weather….
shoot me now…. I blame those hacks over at KJR for trying to change his nickname to “Big Trouble”……dammit…
This, on the same day SI.com has “Sonics likely to leave Seattle” as one of the main page links.
Maybe Lofa Tatupu can get in a car wreck tonight and we can have a hat trick for the day.
Wonderful.
I think I just threw up in my mouth.
So much for possibly competing for the AL West. . .
Couldn’t said “tightness” mean several different things? Or is it surely some Tommy John surgery thing?
I think I’m already on stage 4 of grief, depression.
Well at least he didn’t try to “pitch through it.” If there is a bright spot to be had, it’s that he was smart enough to close it down when he was sure there was something off. [fingers crossed for the inevitable tests to indicate no problems]
On any other club, ‘tightness’ could mean many things. On the Mariners? It very well could be Tommy John…followed by torn labrum, followed by being released after the fans are tortured and jerked around for 5 years….
…finally followed by career resurrection elsewhere.
I don’t know anything about baseball injuries. What does it usually mean when someone comes out of the game with tightness in the elbow? Could we be looking at, dare I say, Tommy John?
If the M’s were smart they’d open up a suicide hotline tonight.
I’m glad strict extreme pitch counts in our minor league system has paid off so well with so many youngsters since the late 90’s.
And my God, we thought last night’s thread was negative…
For some reason I suspect it was “suckiness in the right elbow” rather than tightness. I’m not watching, so I can’t actually see if there’s a physical issue, but when your emperor walks 2, hits 1, and gives up two hits to the first six batters, sometimes you might want to give the quick hook and reload for next time.
I can just read the stories now:
“The M’s were in 1ST PLACE before Felix went down. Gosh, it’s not Bavasi’s fault that the season went in the tank. He and Hargrove deserve another chance!”
Kill me now.
I still say he looked like he had flu-like symptoms out there. But, yeah, I’m completely ignorant.
My goodness aren’t you all a bunch of optimistic people. Enough with the doomsday already! Now, if word comes back in a few days that doomsday has arrived, then OK. But for cryin’ out loud, tightness in the elbow could mean he’ll be gone for ten - twenty days, miss 3-4 starts, come back and be lights out again. Let’s wait a bit before we go pitying ourselves.
Go M’s!
I’ll remember that when we start to see less than 10,000 fans come to SAFECO Field during games this September.
Geez, what did we do to deserve this?
Please forgive me for not adding the /sarcasm tag for those that needed it. Thank you.
15: Been a Seattle sports fan long?
You’re forgiven. (I know you were dying for that conformation)
Woods is doing a nice job in relief.
Yep. Here, I’ll add a smiley tag for effect. =^)
Conformation?
THIS BLOG IS SO NEGATIVE OMG WHY DO YOU GUYS WANT THE M’S TO BE BAD
Now that that’s done with…
Please, please let it just be a slight strain from too many high-fives after two dominating starts.
Been a Seattle Mariners fan my whole life…rest of Seattle sports, not so much. Specially them dang Dawgs…Go Ducks! Oh man did I just make a lot of friends, now. Sorry. Anyways, like I said I love them Mariners, I just tend to be a little less pessimistic, or as some might call it, realistic. I just have a slightly foolish tendency to think they’ll go 162-0 every year.
22
confirmation. better?
The guy on FSN said the move was precautionary. What does that mean? How can the move be precautionary when Felix took himself out of the game? I can see “precautionary” when he is scratched but not when he takes himself out.
24
Seattle is a cursed city when it comes to sports and the curse will not be lifted until we give America back to the Native Americans.
The guy on FSN said the move was precautionary. What does that mean? How can the move be precautionary when Felix took himself out of the game? I can see “precautionary” when he is scratched but not when he takes himself out.
It’s taking a precaution against something worsening if you leave him in?
I’m tired of all this negativism towards pessimism. Felix is the ONLY reason to watch the Mariners. The last three Septembers have been unbearable. I just don’t know if I can take another summer in the cellar, and our only hope just got taken out of the game with tightness in his elbow. Now I don’t know what tightness in the elbow means, but I know it isn’t good. So I feel I’ve got a right to be sad, nervous and pissed.
#29
Putz and Good Beltre are reasons
Good Beltre stayed in LA. We signed bad Beltre.
30. How often is Putz going to pitch when he’s counting on Washburn/HoRo/Batista/Weaver/Woods to get him a lead?
He is still better than Guardado, this team could win 50 or so games
I’m trying to listen Rizzs (and we all know how painful that can be) for signs in his voice of what “precautionary” really means here. So far..inconclusive. And still painful to listen…
The only room for optimism here is that while his location was off today his stuff was good. He was throwing 94-97 with movement. Hopefully that means the “injury” is nothing serious.
I was at the game (left after the 2nd inning). Watching Felix warm up in the bullpen, I thought he looked uncomfortable. Hopefully it was a precautionary move. It was kind of chilly tonight once the sun started to go down; maybe it was a cramp. In an aside, I’ve never seen so many people leave a baseball game in the top of the first inning.
Seattle is a cursed city when it comes to sports and the curse will not be lifted until we give America back to the Native Americans.
Sounds good to me. Please vacate your place in 24 hours; my squaw and I will be taking it for ourselves.
I was there tonight too and at opening day. The difference between the two games was obvious in his mannerisms. When he’s on, he throws in this business-like fashion. Tonight, he just never looked comfortable, never looked loose, and once he started missing the strike zone he just threw harder. The time between pitches was a lot longer. He probably shouldn’t have even taken the mound.
The spousal unit kept saying he was shaking his arm and didn’t look right. I shrugged it off, said it was nerves. And, obviously, I’m wrong.
Tightness in the elbow is a really big concern. “Precautionary” means absolutely nothing. The pessimist in me is screaming at the top of his lungs: “Tommy John! Tommy John!”
Seriously, though - how often does “tightness in the elbow” translate into a two-week stint on the DL, and then everything is back to normal? Methinks that’s not the usual result.
It is so hard being a Mariners fan.
The saddest thing is, as a weathered M’s fan, this didn’t even surprise me. I reacted to it, yes, But I am too calloused at this point to really feel anything anymore. [/eeyore voice]
This is totally anecdotal, but I can’t remember him throwing anything offspeed anywhere near the strike zone, and he seemed overly reliant on the fastball, which still had good velocity. Thoughts?
I’m sick to death of all this fatigue about the negativism towards pessimism.
I think.
I hope whoever said Beltre was a reason to watch the M’s said that BEFORE his bases loaded hackarama
ONE BASERUNNER since the SECOND INNING for Minnesota…and it looks like it will still be enough
But wait! Wasn’t this just the same kind of adversity that those “Miracle Mariners” of 1995 faced when Junior got injured? The team (albeit a much better team with a much better manager) pulled together, won the AL West and took the Cleveland Indians to six games in the ALCS!
I’m trying to make myself feel better. It’s not working.
That team had pitching. Going w/o Jr. is a lot easier than going without Felix - especially when you see the rest of the pitching staff.
If this does turn out bad, let’s hope Bavasi doesn’t panic and make a really bad trade.
(Wait, what am I worrying about? He’s never done THAT…)
Where the hell was Bloomquist running for Beltre in the ninth. that is the ONLY think that he is good for!!!!!!!
Wow. That was a brilliant idea to send him by the 3rd base coach. The play was routine and he was out by 4 steps.
Just stupid.
Bloomquist probably wouldn’t have made that either. There was no excuse to send anyone, even if it was the tying run with two outs. Scoring from first on a fairly sharply hit single to right? Come on.
38: That’s what happens when you don’t listen to your wife. Let that be a lesson learned.
Why would you run for Beltre? You run for Vidro.
Without Felix, this club sure taint much fun to look at. And watching these mediocre (in some cases WORSE) players use the revolving door in/out of town every couple years is getting old. We need another Edgar to come along and bring some stability for the fanbase. Knowing our luck, though, the next ‘Lifetime Mariner’ is already on the roster. His middle name starts with ‘F’.
Beltre was the tying run
Weaver’s starts are only endurable because I knew Felix was coming.
No Felix basically makes the team unwatchable. I might have to go back to just checking for Ichiro stats after the games are over.
“I’ve never seen so many people leave a baseball game in the top of the first inning.”
way to show support for your team!
I’m happy that everyone who left missed a decently exciting finish
When Felix was warming up he was throwing a lot of pitches in the dirt, but he wasn’t grabbing his arm or anything like that. I thought he was trying to get a kink in his leg worked out.
On the bright side of the whole deal I think Woods made a pretty compelling argument to be in the starting rotation when Weaver gets released in a month or so.
#54
Sorry if a lot of people aren’t willing to offer up irrational homerism for a team that frankly isn’t very compelling if Felix isn’t involved. As small as tonight’s crowd was, it would have been tiny were it not for the fact that Felix was pitching. This town wants to support the M’s, but has had to put up with lackluster management and front office work since the end of 2001. The last couple seasons have been particularly brutal, with the exception of Felix’s initial call-up and Ichiro being Ichiro, and now when people have something to legitimately cheer for (Felix’s dominance), he gets injured in the first inning. A lot of the crowd was despondent; forgive them for not wanting to stick around for the Jake Woods’ experience and a deflating baserunning gaffe to end the game.
Since no reports have come out as I type this, the best thing I can compare this to is what just happened to BJ Ryan. His command was off, and then he got knocked around, then we hear the next day that he has “elbow tightness” which leads us to now. Out 4-6 weeks with a strained ligament in his left elbow. Rest and rehab is supposedly the cure. Lets hope and pray that this is the scenario for Felix.
“My gut feeling is Felix is going to be OK. But I have nothing to base that on.”
My sympathies to M’s fans.
what is with the obsession with Hargrove and his manager-speak? his generic responses aren’t much different from any other manager out there.
back on topic, from Drayer last night:
Damn. Actually, lack of depth is a VERY Seattle thing. Examine history: time was when this was a one company town, and depending on its fortunes, we all just bobbed up and down. Until we finally got some diversity across on the other side of the lake.
Damn. Sound familiar?
Damn. This is EXACTLY what we all (pessimists openly, optimists secretly) were dreading.
Damn.
At this point, no matter what, what I’m hoping now is that, if they need to, they really take it easy with the kid. I’d trade the whole season rather than watch them blow his arm out.
Eeesh……… bite my tongue.
Dammit.
Hargrove was quoted, regarding Beltre getting sent home and being tagged out, as saying that “A good third base coach is not doing his job unless he is getting guys thrown out at home plate”. How much is that guy getting paid, and could I have HIS job?
Regarding the 1995 Mariners losing Griffey, they still had Randy Johnson. If you look at their record for the year, they were 79-66 (including the 1 game playoff). Randy was 18-2. If you take away the wins and losses he was credited with, the M’s were 61-64, i.e., less than .500, when someone else got the decision. I have a vague recollection that they were something like 26/27-3 when he started, so take out the game they won when he didn’t get the decision, and it was even worse. It’s premature to compare Felix to Randy Johnson, but not out of the question to compare their importance to their clubs. The 1995 M’s didn’t get much out of their other starters as a group, and the 2007 M’s are quite possibly in the same situation.
We don’t have to go too far back to find hope. Though J.J.’s arm is much more mature, I admit, but hell, he throws real hard too.
From the Seattle Times
and
Indeed, the preliminary word on the fateful MRI from Seattle manager Mike Hargrove was promising. Hargrove is acting like — or at least trying to convince himself that — Putz will still be ready for opening day, even though the time line for that is shrinking fast.
So I’m not going to panic . . yet. Putz came out ok (as far as we know). Throw in a combo of unexpected time off, colder weather, and maybe a psychological component about stinking it up in the first inning after pitching in an inhuman fashion for his first two starts, and maybe, just maybe Felix’s elbow tightness goes the way of Putz’s.
obviously I need to work on my use of tags.
No starting pitcher is worth 24 wins to his team.
64 -
Are you kidding me??
You know, if Hargrove had been smart and put Bloomquist in to pinch run, he might have only gotten thrown out by five feet instead of 15 …
if felix was right he would have not struggled, given up three runs, and left the game…if vidro’s out in the 7th goes a foot higher we score two runs…if the right fielder doesn’t misplay the vidro single in the ninth then beltre doesn’t get sent to the slaughterhouse…
lots of “ifs”…i think grover does some bad things, but last night was NOT his fault…
we almost won the game WITHOUT the KING…how about a little optimism that he’s okay and that the season is not over…c’mon people…
I understand the angst over Felix, and the general pesimissm, but there is really a lot to feel good about:
Vidro and Guillen look like a good moves.
Beltre and Sexson are off to good starts.
Washburn, Batista and Ramirez all looked good in their last outings.
Woods and Morrow are waiting in the wings if Weaver continues to suck.
And Putz, Betancourt and Lopez have been locked up for years to come.
I think things are generally going in the right direction.
amen auburn! i agree 100%…it ain’t over…rangers suck as usual…the a’s are playing .500 ball…and the angels can’t score…we’re okay if the king isn’t out long…( i just hope the angels don’t wake up their bats when i’m there this weekend…if they do, look for the only Ms fan in the stadium crying…)
What?
guillen will be fine if healthy…vidro is too expensive, but will have decent numbers…he shouldn’t be in the three spot though…that’s on grover…they should just bump everyone down a spot and bat him seventh (maybe batting clean-up is too much for raul and that is why he is struggling) or just swap him straight up in the order with kenji…but not including his contract, vidro is okay…
#68 - well some of what you said is true. Putz, Betancourt and Lopez are locked up for a number of years. The other stuff . .not so much.
Every time Vidro hits into a double play, potentially killing a rally I tend to disagree with the “good move” thing. Plus his numbers for a DH, not great at all. He’s stringing together more hits, but at his price . .
Guillen is out with a minor injury, he’s ok so far, but I wouldn’t call him a good move yet. Washburn, Batista and Ramirez haven’t looked great this year, though their last outings were ok to decent.
Woods hasn’t done anything to get real jazzed about, he’s fine as a replacement rotation guy at the back end, but if he’s in there as more than a long reliever, then the worst has probably happened to Felix. Morrow will likely continue to get better, but they aren’t going to throw him in as a stater wtih other options before him. Baek and Woods are likely in line first well before Morrow if we need to replace Felix and Weaver this year. Still small sample size theater here.
it is a small size to look at, but i think all the doom and gloom posts about the season being over are premature…until we find out what’s what with felix…a 5-5 start and 4-2 in the west is okay if you ask me…
#74 - when Felix is primarily responsible for 2 of those wins, and I think the concern you see here is justified. The bottom line is this team isn’t going go compete without him (or a trade to help the rest of the rotation). Felix actually could make the difference between winning the division and not coming close.
but why freak out hours after it happens? if it comes out later that he needs tommy john surgery, i’ll be the first guy to the bar…but why get all worked up now…”patience grass-hopper”
Vidro and Everett are the same. See the post that DMZ wrote several days ago. Especially for what they gave up and what they are paying Vidro, he’s a horrible acquisition.
Guillen is not bad but I will need to see more of him.
It’s entirely possible (but highly improbable) that Vidro busts out and goes nuts this year. I will eat my words if that happens. IF that happens.
Does anyone have any idea what the timeframe is on getting MRI results back?
You don’t thin Vidro and Guillen are an upgrade over Reed and Everett? You don’t think are lineup is more dangerous now?
Well sure. But by the end of last year, Everett was long gone and Reed was injured. We had Snelling in RF and Broussard/Perez at DH.
So the question should be is Vidro/Guillen and upgrade over what we had at the end of 2006. What do you think?
Because it’s worth getting worked up about. I’d rather get very nervous and excited about it and find out its nothing, then hang on to hope and have a bad report come our way. I’ve tried it your way as a Mariner fan for years, and the fall is a lot shorter my way. It’s actually kind of funny because I am a “positive attitude” guy. But not so much with potential bad news and the M’s.
better than what we finished the year with last year? yes…but WAAAYYYY too costly…
and at least we “won” by losing out on zito, schmidt, meche, etc…
how bad would things be then? long term would be shot and short term too if felix is out…
things could be much worse than they are…
i’m usually a pessimist, but right now, i guess i just am looking on the bright side of things…lol…
OK guys - we can content w/o Felix. here’s the math:
Over a season, your #1 starter is going to clock… 35 starts?
Now, your best teams will win say, 75% of those games with their ace on the mount. The worst teams will win, typically 33% of those games with a random dude on the mound at least. So that’s 11 wins on the low end, 26 games on the high end. However, the Mariner’s are a middling team, so I’ll say they can be counted on to win 40% of their games (thats a 65 win season w/o felix), and 60% of the games in which Felix would have started. Also take into account that we’ve already run Felix up 3 times so far.
So, we’ve got 32 games. With Felix, we expect to win 19 games. Without Felix, we expect to win 13. Six Games, over the course of a season. That’s losing one game a month due to not having our ace available.
Yes, it’s a blow. IIRC, a hitter worth 6 wins is a great hitter, so this doesn’t minimize Hernandez’ contribution. But a game a month does not remove a team from contention.
If the M’s hitters can step it up, even mediocre pitchers can look good. Paul Abbott won 17 games with the M’s in 2001, and I beleive he was down with injuries part of that year. If Abbott doesn’t spell replacable, than I don’t know who does.
that’s a great point, but the problem is that losing him hurts the pen if woods is the replacement…there is a trickle down affect…
let’s just keep praying (literally) and crossing our fingers…positive energy…
The KING is GONE
83. It’s not just as simple as looking at 6 games over the course of a season one game a month. Having Felix out there every 5th day gives a psychological edge, exactly the kind that might be necessary to keep a 4 game LS from spiraling into an 8 or 10 game LS. The same can be said for the other pitchers that follow a Felix start who are that much more amped up and pitch at another level to keep the momentum rolling. Just my $.02
you got inside info. chiro? or are you just venting?
I’m not sure are starting pitching without Felix can even be described as mediocre. Jarrod Washburn would be the clear ace of that rotation.
our, not are. Not thinking clearly
He’s not venting, he’s rubbing it in.
don’t freak out on me, but think of this spin on it…say he is out a couple weeks, but then comes back 100% and dominates…so while he’s out, baek or another rainier comes up and looks good in his place, forcing us to dump weaver…just trying to create something good out of a possible catastrophe…thoughts?
Bako - it’s possible, but I think that $8 mil says that Weaver is going to be in the rotation for the foreseeable future.
Two things:
1. Yes, losing Felix would be a major blow. Hard to see us contending without him. My point was other things are going well and some of Bavasi’s moves seem to be working out.
2. Yes, I think Guillen and Vidro are an upgrade over anything we had at anytime last year at DH and the third outfielder. I like our lineup now. I also think Batista and Ramirez are an upgrade over Meche and Piniero. Now, if we had only kept Moyer….
All interesting points, #83.
However, that is assuming the M’s WERE contenders to begin with. Was there anyone here who really believed the M’s were favorites in the AL West? Even WITH Felix?!? My belief, is that if Felix ends up out the rest of the year (who knows right now), and your statements were 100% true, those 6 extra losses would mean the team wins are in the mid-70s instead of the previously-projected low 80s.
Now, say someone actually believed the M’s were a 90+ win club coming into 2007 (supresses chuckle)…Even the most optimistic of projectionists would then have the M’s sitting at 84. Of course, many will throw out words like, ‘The Cardinals won the WS last year!’, and ‘The M’s in 2001 lost A-Rod and still won 116!’. Heck, ‘Rizzo’ may even chime in this thread and start rattling off fuzzy-feeling comments like ‘Cardiac Kids’ and ‘Refuse to Lose’.
But it doesn’t change the now-reduced chances for success. Every once and awhile odd things happen, and the underdogs overachieve. It makes for a great story. However, there is a REASON its such a great tale. In that, its very rare.
Personally, I’m of the opinion that anything written in all caps is true…
I do think we can still contend if this is a short-term situation. I didn’t mind Baek last season, and if it means we get to dump Weaver ASAP, even better.
the team was set up to be slightly above .500 with the starting pitching…now, unless felix is okay or someone(s) steps up, we are looking at third or fourth in the west…i realistically thought we’d be first or a more likely second…
i thought baek would have been a great #5 too…he better be the choice now if we need him…he’s had good numbers in tacoma so far…
I do think that the Mariners are/were contenders, even if it’s just the result of the talent level of the other teams in the AL West. Have Oakland or LAAOA shown anything thus far that makes you think they’ll run away with this division? The Rangers pitching is downright ugly, as is the Angels offense. I don’t see the A’s putting up a ton of runs this year, and they have the most fragile ace in the league. The Mariners can be competitive, and I don’t think that’s just wishcasting.
However, the Mariner’s are a middling team
Yes, it’s a blow. IIRC, a hitter worth 6 wins is a great hitter, so this doesn’t minimize Hernandez’ contribution. But a game a month does not remove a team from contention.
Middling team - 6 wins + 6 losses = not a middling team any more. That takes an 87-75 team down to 81-81, and an 81-81 team to 75-87. Considering an AL West team’s never won less than 88 games since realignment, the all-time low for a division winner is 82, and you can count the teams that win divisions with less than 85 wins on two hands in 40 years of play, you aren’t saying much positive about the M’s odds- they are vanishingly small without a significant contribution from Felix. We understood this going into the season. The only way the M’s contend absent Felix is if the division is REALLY bad, and the M’s get really lucky (no other injuries, etc.).
Realistically, NONE of the Mariner starters aside from Felix could be expected to post a sub-4 ERA, outside of a flukey Washburn/Franklin sort of season… even accounting for Safeco. That’s a terrible pitching staff. The M’s have a decent offense, but this isn’t 1996 (where the team scored a zillion runs to make up for RJ being gone, and still couldn’t beat out the Rangers).
You’re also not accounting for the fact that a bad start to the season = players get sold off for scrap/prospects (*coughIchirocough*), so the middling Mariner team that started 2007 has better odds of not being the team that finishes it.
said the same thing earlier CSG…we are in a mediocre at best division this year…were for sure in the upper half…now, holding my breath…
when will we know the results? they said in the game last night that a player can ask to not have reports let out to the media…is this true? i’m not getting anything done at work because of this…thank god my kids are testing…
RIP 2007 Season……Anyone else looking foward to 2008???
#98: Even before today I believe both the A’s and Angels were better on paper than the M’s. And the Rangers were just as good. If ‘contending’ means: hovering around .500 at the Trade Deadline within earshot of the AL West leaders…I’m with you. If ‘contending’ means: serious shot at the playoffs with good matchup vs other division winners and solid shot at World Series title…then no. I guess the term ‘contender’ is relative. Contending for the AL West and contending for the World Championship are two completely different set of criteria.
Thank the Maker we are in a ‘weak’ division. That way we can take solace in the statement: “Ya we suck…but everyone around us sucks too!”
The silence is deafening. Does no one have any “inside” information about the status of The King? It is killing me!
Actually, that’s not really true, is it? “Tightness” is not the worst possible diagnosis; the doctors could have said something much more dreadful (and still could). For that matter, wouldn’t it be far worse for the problem to be in his shoulder, rather than his elbow? My understanding is that pitchers can often recover from elbow problems (even surgery) and have a normal career, whereas once the shoulder is damaged you’re on something of a downward spiral….
#102
Hey, my eyes are open. I realize this is a highly flawed team, but so are the other teams in the division.
someone brought up the fact that BJ Ryan had the same thing this week, and is only out 4-6 weeks…for what it’s worth…
I don’t think either way this turns out we will see the same felix, especially not this year.
but even a 70% felix is our ace and better than most in the league…
We haven’t heard from Dave lately. I hope he’s not inconsolable.
Good news: Skip Bayless just said on “1st and 10″ that he believes Felix was faking it because he was getting shelled.
Bad news: In his opinion, that means Seattle’s stuck with a pussy.
Everyone feel better now?
Thankfully, the host and Other Guy Across the Desk for the Week were properly shocked at his insanity.
does 70% of Felix = Gil Meche?
Skip Bayless is a douche bag.
Skip Bayless is a moron, how does he have a job on TV?
on a side note, I don’t like that Skip Bayless much…
RE 107
If its his elbow, he could be back to full strength even if it did require surgery. You have nothing to base that statement on.
He has a job on TV because he couldn’t get one in print anymore. He’s a moron.
Skip Bayless is one of the reasons I continue to lose interest in ESPN. But still, it’s something to watch during breakfast. And hey, they gave props to Derek’s book this morning!
Still, ESPN is a guilty pleasure…but sometimes, it makes me feel so dirty.
Anybody want to guess the number of times Bayless has actually watched Felix pitch? I say ONE.
BTW, anyone know when Felix is getting his MRI (I assume that will happen)?
Re 115
alot of guys that have had elbow problems never fully recover..fully recover meaning same velocity and/or break on pitches.
Sorry, guys, but this was inevitable. I defy anyone to name me a pitcher who came up through this organization and then went on to have a long, successful career. It just doesn’t happen. The only pitchers that I can think of that have done well during/after a stint with the Mariners came up with other organizations. The A’s haven’t beat us because of Billy Beane’s supposed brilliance, but rather because they are able to develop pitchers, and the M’s aren’t. Hernandez has always been doomed to join the scrap heap, along with Anderson, Meche, Piniero, Soriano, Madritsch, etc. This is why I’ve never been excited about him; I always knew this day was coming. I was worried about him last year, when it was obvious he’d lost some stuff; now the underlying injury has become apparent.
re 120
Meche and Piniero = head problem…though meche did fray rotator cuff, he still has plus stuff
lost some stuff last year???? huh
We signed Bobby Madritsch when he was 42 years old.
And I’ll add that it looks to me like Soriano is doing just fine.
Hope you don’t have too hard a time getting out of bed in the morning.
According to KJR they are going to evaluate Felix at about 2, and then will have a little press meeting afterwards.
#120 -Mark Langston?
I miss Bobby Madritsch. He made things interesting, and he could get people out.
The AL West is weak, but the A’s could put together one of their months where they win 25 games and run away with it. If that doesn’t happen, then there might be 4 teams playing .500 ball.
“Thursday, April 19, 2007 - Page updated at 12:32″
“Mariners physician Edward Khalfayan will examine pitcher Felix Hernandez before today’s game against the Minnesota Twins. Khalfayan is expected to discuss Hernandez’s condition with reporters after conducting the examination. “
so It doesnt sound like felix is going to have an MRI… that doesnt sound right does it?
Sorry, guys, but this was inevitable. etc. etc.
This was probably the most paranoid thing I’ve read since … well, since Seung Cho’s manifesto yesterday. But still.
I’d imagine he’s already had the MRI and will be going over the results with the doctor before the game.
I wonder if the colder weather in Tacoma and Seattle has a long term effect that is difficult to measure. I recall the attrition analysis done a year or so back looking at various team’s track records. It seemed that some coaches and philosphies were better than others, but also an element of luck or the unknown.
Does cold temperature = higher chance of injury?
Seattle isn’t that cold. Minnesota gets a hell of a lot colder and they haven’t destroyed arms there that I know of.
minnesota is in a dome…
Umm, last time I looked, Twins play indoors in 70 plus comfort, slight breeze blowing out when the home team bats.
He pitched one game in Seattle. I’m sure if they wanted him to stay awrm they could stick him in a gym and have him throw. Seattle is not cold compared to 50 percent of the teams in baseball.
133 - Don’t the twins play in doors?
I know of other cities that are cold, Boston for example. I’ll have to go back and read the attritiona analysis - see at least if there is a loose correlation to temperature, looking at both the Minor Leage AAA teams and the MLB teams.
Man, we really need something new to talk about …
NY, Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago… all play outside, and all start the season with temps that are similar to Seattle temps in April.
I was going to add that but I figured people here would figure out that baseball is played in MULTIPLE places colder than Seattle. I apologize for the poor example.
Of course, these teams may all have Clues, in comparison to the Mariners…
Is this press conference with the doc going to be on KJR? Just want to know if I should start streaming audio here pretty soon.
141. So then, do the Mariners have Risks, Strategos or Chutes and Ladders?
Battleship. As in, “You sunk my USS…!”
More like worn-out decks of cards that the bosses have fooled themselves into thinking they were Game Boys…
141:
The Cubs don’t have a clue; Wood and Prior’s careers down the tubes… actually, I’d say the Cubs are more clueless than the M’s.
Note that while the Attrition War study concluded that “a pitcher in the Mariner system [is] significantly more likely to be injured than any pitcher” in other systems, it also noted that the Mariners “are a standard deviation above the mean in shoulder injuries. They are not outside a standard deviation in elbow injuries.”
So if it’s Felix’s elbow and not his shoulder, there’s no reason to have expected this particular injury to be more likely vs if Felix had been developed by another team. And Felix is an individual, not a random sample. So expecting Felix to be injured, at least in this way, is nonesense. Though the general pessimism about the organization, I’m afraid, is anything but.
HoRam on KJR, seemed to downplay Felix’s condition as “stiffness,” speculated Felix won’t be gone long, and that it had to do with the weird start to the season. He’s probably talked with Felix today, at least, so my hope slowly increases . . still, doctor he ain’t.
A) Has the White Sox more in mind…
B) Isn’t that more on Baker than the system as a whole? (and I would cheerfully admit that Baker has no clue about pitchers’ arms….)