The M’s are insane

Dave · April 20, 2007 at 9:17 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Eric O’Flaherty is coming up from Tacoma and will join the team in Anaheim. Brandon Morrow will move from the bullpen to the rotation and make Felix’s scheduled start in Texas on Monday.

Yes folks, Brandon Morrow is going to make his first major league start, on the road, in the bandbox that is whatever they’re calling The Ballpark in Arlington now.

Brandon Morrow threw an inning on April 3rd, an inning on April 10th, and an inning on April 14th. During spring training, his longest outing was two innings, he threw 8 1/3 total innings in the month of March. In his professional debut last year in the Arizona and Cal Leagues, his longest outing was three innings.

The last time Brandon Morrow threw more than 3 innings in a ballgame was May 5th, 2006 against the Stanford Cardinal.

And now, he’s being asked to go into a severe hitters park and make his first major league start, after having spent the entire spring being used as a reliever, and then sitting on his hands for the better part of April.

This organization is ridiculous.

Comments

197 Responses to “The M’s are insane”

  1. Karen on April 20th, 2007 2:31 pm

    Which one of you guys updated the Brandon Morrow page on Wikipedia?

    With Felix Hernandez injured, Morrow is expected to make his first major league start Monday, April 23rd at Texas. Morrow has not pitched more than three innings in an outing since May 5th, 2006.

    Did he ever pitch more than 3 innings this past March in ST? He’s logged a TOTAL of 3 innings since he made the 25-man roster — 4/3, 4/10, and 4/14, one inning each.

    I can’t believe the Brain Trust is going to go through with this.

  2. marc w on April 20th, 2007 2:34 pm

    Dylan,

    I’d agree with that, it’s just that we want to be able to say more than ‘Brandon Morrow has the physical strength/conditioning required to throw 70-90 pitches in his first start.’ He can develop that strength at home, in the bullpen, anywhere…it’s just not all that important.

    I think there’s definitely some value in having him work long bullpen sessions ahead of his first MLB start; the guy’s pitched what, less than 30 innings of competitive/semi-competitive baseball since he was at Cal. It’s clearly better for him (in some ways) than languishing as the last guy in the pen for 2 weeks. But while it’s better than having him do laundry, and better than having him take piano lessons, it’s still not ideal. I think that’s why the argument started.
    It’s not that he couldn’t get work in game situations, save for 3 garbage innings with almost no leverage. He could, and he could do so right now. That he won’t is…strange. But yeah, I guess, given that the M’s have ruled out the sensible plan, maybe a bullpen session *really is* the best they could do. You’ve gotta ask how we got to this point, though.
    Weird.

  3. marc w on April 20th, 2007 2:35 pm

    I’ll be fascinated to see what kind of baseball owner Mark Cuban would be.
    To be fair, I’d bet he’d hire a kick-ass GM… the more I think about this, the more I like it.

  4. Thingray on April 20th, 2007 2:40 pm

    Mark Cuban would be interesting to watch as a baseball owner. I’m sure he wouldn’t ban “Yankees suck!” t-shirts from Safeco!

  5. chrisisasavage on April 20th, 2007 2:41 pm

    #144, I think visualization is VERY important for any physical activity, Pavel teaches that in his books, it’s a large part of what builds those connections up.

    I see potential problems w/ him being in the majors too early, so I’ll sumarize the reasons I’ve stated in other posts in the thread.

    1.) In a relief role, he’s more likely to go out and try to blow people away instead of actually practicing his pitches. Maximum effort is not going to help him learn to be a starter, or build up endurance, and would limit how often he could practice.
    2.) In a starters role, getting shelled, or being in high leverage situations may make him concentrate on the game situation, more than on his mechanics, or not even focus at all, and if he’s not well conditioned, that could lead to increased injury risk.
    3.) They’d be more likely to pace him (and I dont just mean pitch count limits) in AAA than in the MLB, not letting him get into a bunch of high stress situations, until he showed he could pitch consistently for 90 pitches.
    4.) Mental stress (from an MLB game being on the line, for example) can cause it’s own problems, physically and mentally. I believe this is part of why confidence is so important for a pitcher.

    I just don’t see how being in the Majors would REALLY allow him to practice enough to build up the stamina to be a starting pitcher in the MLB, without signifigantly increasing his injury risk, whether it’s in the Bullpen, or the rotation.

  6. Nuss on April 20th, 2007 2:42 pm

    I think someone let the cat out of the bag too early on Morrow — check out the probables now on the MLB site.

    http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/probable_pitchers.jsp?c_id=sea

    That sound you hear is some poor PR intern being fired.

  7. bmanuw on April 20th, 2007 2:57 pm

    156. I was trying to block out the upcoming pitching matchups for us ..LOL…. We are so done

  8. Nuss on April 20th, 2007 2:59 pm

    Maybe the M’s brass listend to some of our logic here.

    I’ll try not to hurt myself laughing too hard.

  9. heyoka on April 20th, 2007 3:12 pm

    Even if Morrow is the world’s coolest character and game stress is not an issue, and even if he has taken the time in the bullpen to prepare for a starting role, we can pretty much all agree that game pitching is much more physically stressful, and it is also reasonable to say that BM will get taken to school at least by the second time through the line up, on account of never having pitched more than 3 innings in pro ball.

    This is one of my favorite parts about baseball. Probablistic models and performance of human beings. Can BM overcome the predictions? And why do people get paid (ala Hargrove/Bavasi) to play against the odds and actually make things worse?

  10. Tek Jansen on April 20th, 2007 3:13 pm

    156

    Good catch. Earlier in the day I checked the M’s official site for probables, and Morrow was on the docket to pitch Monday in Texas. Has any official announcement been made other than the initial listing of Morrow as Monday’s probable starter?

  11. gwangung on April 20th, 2007 3:24 pm

    1.) In a relief role, he’s more likely to go out and try to blow people away instead of actually practicing his pitches. Maximum effort is not going to help him learn to be a starter, or build up endurance, and would limit how often he could practice.
    2.) In a starters role, getting shelled, or being in high leverage situations may make him concentrate on the game situation, more than on his mechanics, or not even focus at all, and if he’s not well conditioned, that could lead to increased injury risk.
    3.) They’d be more likely to pace him (and I dont just mean pitch count limits) in AAA than in the MLB, not letting him get into a bunch of high stress situations, until he showed he could pitch consistently for 90 pitches.
    4.) Mental stress (from an MLB game being on the line, for example) can cause it’s own problems, physically and mentally. I believe this is part of why confidence is so important for a pitcher.

    Add to that—

    Pitchers have tactical and strategic plans to handle hitters. These plans are different for starters than for relievers. Being able to execute these plans (particularly in response to changing tactics and strategy from the batter) is just as important as the physical mechanics…and separates the good from the bad.

    Morrow is not getting any work on executing these plans.

  12. Pete on April 20th, 2007 3:32 pm

    Nuss,

    You and I are taking Larue to task! Hahaha. Just kidding. Fun though.

  13. DMZ on April 20th, 2007 3:47 pm

    And people call us arrogant.

  14. Pete on April 20th, 2007 3:52 pm

    You referring to me DMZ?

  15. DMZ on April 20th, 2007 3:53 pm

    No no no no… that someone would respond to “here’s a long, well-reasoned argument” with the dismissive “there’s a reason they’re on the internet”

  16. ChrisK on April 20th, 2007 3:54 pm

    Knowing the M’s, once Morrow gets shelled in Texas, they will instantly think he can’t be a starter and pigeonhole him as a reliever for the rest of his Mariner career.

  17. mln on April 20th, 2007 3:55 pm

    The Mariners may be insane, but just think what fun there will be watching all crazy, wacky things they could do this season.

    -Hargove as a player-manager. With the Human Rain Delay hitting second behind Ichiro, he has a .421 OBP.

    -The Mariner Moose gets turned into a LOGGY out of the bullpen.

    -Sanjaya becomes a Mariner radio announcer with Rick Rizzs and sits on Rizzs’ lap through the broadcast.

    -Anything to do with Willie Bloomquist.

    Mariner baseball, feel the insanity.

  18. Pete on April 20th, 2007 3:56 pm

    Oh ok, that’s what I thought at first. …I’m the guy (pwhit44) over there trying to explain the insanity of Hargrove’s Mateo decisions. …Not sure I’m doing a good job.

  19. Josh on April 20th, 2007 4:06 pm

    I can’t even count how many fallacies the “Internet” statement gives us.

  20. Nuss on April 20th, 2007 4:06 pm

    LaRue is a good guy. He’s just trying to play devil’s advocate and generate discussion, bringing the insight of a guy who has covered Major League Baseball for a looooooooooooong time.

    I do notice, however, that he still has yet to come up with a more cogent argument than “that’s the way most managers do it — they like their bullpen roles” and “managers like their comfort zones.”

    My guess is, that’s the best Hargrove could come up with, too. Stupid.

  21. Pete on April 20th, 2007 4:09 pm

    Yeah, Larue is asking for something more concrete from us, but is only giving us “that’s the way most managers do it — they like their bullpen roles” and “managers like their comfort zones” in return. Kind of weird.

  22. leetinsleyfanclub on April 20th, 2007 4:13 pm

    Mariners Baseball: “Why Oh Why?”

  23. Nuss on April 20th, 2007 4:23 pm

    Not all that weird, since there isn’t a better argument.

    He’s also making the argument that there would be very little to be gained by making a change immediately. We all disagree, using examples of Hargrove’s incompetence.

    It would be nice if he could provide some objective evidence that Hargrove is doing a good job, but he’s neglected to do so. Both LaRue and Baker have simply tried to defend his decisions — not show us how he’s having a positive impact on the performance of the team.

    So there you go.

  24. Oly Rainiers Fan on April 20th, 2007 4:25 pm

    God I’m glad I switched to the Rainiers season tickets.

    The Mariners are clearly insane. No coherent, discernible, overall strategy. Just one strange isolated move after another. Sometimes, on an individual basis, the moves seem justifiable. Sometimes, (as in now), they’re completely ludicrous. When you add them all up, it’s like watching some weird physics experiment or something, with random particles just bouncing all over.

  25. Grizz on April 20th, 2007 4:30 pm

    With Guillen’s slow start, maybe the front office should consider bringing up Carlos Triufnel to play RF.

  26. Nuss on April 20th, 2007 4:36 pm

    KJR just said that the Mariners told them Morrow is not in their plans for Monday.

    Let’s hope that’s true …

  27. Red Apple on April 20th, 2007 4:44 pm

    #147: Larry Dierker? I thought he had a brain tumor, or something like that..

    He did, but came back from surgery and guided the Astros to the divison title in 1999. Now that’s determination!

  28. Thingray on April 20th, 2007 4:49 pm

    That’s gritty!

  29. fore on April 20th, 2007 4:57 pm

    yea, KOMO just said that Hargrove is denying the “internet rumors” that Morrow is going to take Felix’s spot in the rotation and that he will announce who later.

  30. Red Apple on April 20th, 2007 4:59 pm

    Who’s on first.

  31. Nuss on April 20th, 2007 5:01 pm

    I’m going to laugh really hard if it ends up being Morrow … then, I’ll cry.

  32. Jeff Nye on April 20th, 2007 5:04 pm

    It’s amusing to watch the “normal” media automatically dismiss all internet discussion as being inherently non-credible…

    And yet, most of them have a variety of different company-sponsored blogs!

  33. JI on April 20th, 2007 5:15 pm

    I know I’m late to the party, and it’s probably already been said before: but seriously, what the fuck?!?

  34. terrybenish on April 20th, 2007 5:16 pm

    Soooo, Hargrove was going to get fired too.

    Maybe deep throat is not telling the truth…as Morrow is not going to start…

    Move back to Seattle so you can see if their fingers are crossed while they tell you all this inside scoop…

    If this wasn’t so pathetic, it’d be worth a laugh.

  35. bmanuw on April 20th, 2007 5:35 pm

    Someone needs to straighten out Hargrove and let him know he is a rude, thoughtless, little pig

  36. Josh on April 20th, 2007 5:41 pm

    Actually his scotch remark made me chuckle. He seems like a decent guy, just not a great baseball team manager.

  37. DMZ on April 20th, 2007 5:53 pm

    Yes. What happened was that we hacked into the M’s official site and put Morrow down as Monday’s starter in order to start an internet firestorm. We’re just that crazy. And powerful.

  38. Tek Jansen on April 20th, 2007 5:59 pm

    I suppose Hargrove considers internet rumors to be official postings of probable pitchers on the M’s official website.

  39. Nuss on April 20th, 2007 6:09 pm

    Having been a former member of the professional media, their condescending attitude towards those who don’t get paid to cover a team or sport never ceases to crack me up. Check out the way we all got upbraided by Geoff Baker.

    http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2007/04/morrow_rumors_other_nonsense.html

    How could we all have been so stupid as to believe the Mariners might be so assinine as to start Morrow? After all, it did appear on their own Web site and we are talking about the Mariners, the bastion of how to effectively take care of prized prospects’ arms.

  40. Paul B on April 20th, 2007 6:19 pm

    I also noticed that Baker says that we’re all dumb for, first, thinking that there was any other pitcher than Mateo that Hargrove could possibly have used in the seventh inning, and, second, for second guessing (of course, most of us were making these observations in real time before the predictable result occurred) Hargrove in April. Not sure what it being April has to do with it, I guess he thinks it is OK to do dumb things early in the season. Maybe the games are worth less in April than they are later in the season?

  41. Tek Jansen on April 20th, 2007 6:30 pm

    I saw this other crazy rumor. Apparently Weaver is the probable starter against LAA on Sunday. I am choosing not to believer such nonsense since it appears on that crazy blog known as the M’s official website. After all, who would start Jeff Weaver in a major league game?

  42. Nuss on April 20th, 2007 6:39 pm

    Now that was funny.

  43. John D. on April 20th, 2007 6:41 pm

    Re: The 10-day minimum for a mlb send-down

    It’s generally true, but there is an exception (that’s been batted around).
    For an analogy, when Raul Ibanez was with KC, he was sent down; and he was back up in a couple of days. Another position player had been DL’d. [This is the exception.]
    So, if FELIX goes on the DL, that makes it possible for the Ms to recall another pitcher, even someone (Woods) who’s just been sent down.

  44. Tek Jansen on April 20th, 2007 6:45 pm

    On the radio pre-game Drayer did admit that the Morrow info was on the M’s website, yet she also said that even though the site is run by the M’s and MLB, the people who write for the site have no connection to the organization and those who wrote the Morrow as probable starter piece were erroneous in writing such info. Her statement about who writes for the M’s website was confusing. Who the hell write for them then? Random people picked up off the street?

  45. DMZ on April 20th, 2007 6:49 pm

    I sent Geoff a quick note about that, and he said that no one was saying that it was USSM spreading it – he was responding particularly to all the people on the Times blog.

    He also mentioned, though, that he heard there was a blogger on KJR today saying Morrow would be starting on Monday. I don’t know who that would have been.

  46. DonP on April 20th, 2007 6:55 pm

    So…who the hell is going to start on Monday night? Baek? White? Bill Krueger?

  47. etowncoug on April 20th, 2007 7:00 pm

    I think Churchill was on KJR today.

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