Comments on: Credit Stealing http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/ Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg Sun, 08 Nov 2009 04:39:06 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: The Ancient Mariner http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177418 The Ancient Mariner Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:40:41 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177418 Hey, I'll be rooting for Vidro, too; but he's not hitting for significant power, he's not drawing walks, and he has no value in the field or on the basepaths because if he were any slower, he'd be going backward. At this point, taken as a whole, the guy's a replacement-level player who's costing us big money. Snelling? Heck, as much as I've been a fan of his since I watched him for Everett, this isn't about Snelling; I'd rather Bavasi had dealt Snelling for a box of Froot Loops (well, <i>Fruto</i> Loops) and anointed Bryan LaHair the DH--we'd be better off. Hey, I’ll be rooting for Vidro, too; but he’s not hitting for significant power, he’s not drawing walks, and he has no value in the field or on the basepaths because if he were any slower, he’d be going backward. At this point, taken as a whole, the guy’s a replacement-level player who’s costing us big money. Snelling? Heck, as much as I’ve been a fan of his since I watched him for Everett, this isn’t about Snelling; I’d rather Bavasi had dealt Snelling for a box of Froot Loops (well, Fruto Loops) and anointed Bryan LaHair the DH–we’d be better off.

]]> By: colm http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177398 colm Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:16:38 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177398 Thanks John. In response I'd say that: 1. If you had the time to type in all his other numbers as Terry has done, he'd look a lot less valuable than his .309 batting average. 2. It still makes no sense to me for you to compare him to a bunch of #2 hitters when Vidro's not the #2 hitter on the Mariners, and none of those guys is a DH. Why not compare him to a selection of #7 hitters because that's where a lot of posters on this sit would hit him? 3. You're probably right. Batting order doesn't matter much. Which makes your comparison in point 2 all the more baffling. That said... Dave Cameron has already raised the point on this blog that Vidro's skillset as a beat-the-ball-on-the-ground/run-like-a-tractor hitter makes it likely that he'll ground into a great many double-plays this season. Batting him behind a high OBP player like Ichiro would increase that total even further. Thanks John. In response I’d say that:
1. If you had the time to type in all his other numbers as Terry has done, he’d look a lot less valuable than his .309 batting average.
2. It still makes no sense to me for you to compare him to a bunch of #2 hitters when Vidro’s not the #2 hitter on the Mariners, and none of those guys is a DH. Why not compare him to a selection of #7 hitters because that’s where a lot of posters on this sit would hit him?
3. You’re probably right. Batting order doesn’t matter much. Which makes your comparison in point 2 all the more baffling. That said… Dave Cameron has already raised the point on this blog that Vidro’s skillset as a beat-the-ball-on-the-ground/run-like-a-tractor hitter makes it likely that he’ll ground into a great many double-plays this season. Batting him behind a high OBP player like Ichiro would increase that total even further.

]]> By: Goose http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177387 Goose Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:00:31 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177387 Wow. The quality of the member comments at this place has gone down alot. Sad. Wow. The quality of the member comments at this place has gone down alot. Sad.

]]> By: terry http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177386 terry Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:55:23 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177386 Show of hands.... Reach for the sky is you're satisfied with your DH putting up this line: .299/.338/.388 OPS: .726; For context, last year the average DH did this: .261/.356/.485; OPS: .841. So far this year, league average for DH is this: .260/.351/.433; OPS: .784. Vidro not only isn't in the middle of the other guys, he's significantly below average (that's NOT a good thing). Vidro pretty much is a blackhole. He's a one tool guy so far...he hits for average. Show of hands….

Reach for the sky is you’re satisfied with your DH putting up this line: .299/.338/.388 OPS: .726;

For context, last year the average DH did this: .261/.356/.485; OPS: .841. So far this year, league average for DH is this: .260/.351/.433; OPS: .784.

Vidro not only isn’t in the middle of the other guys, he’s significantly below average (that’s NOT a good thing). Vidro pretty much is a blackhole. He’s a one tool guy so far…he hits for average.

]]> By: mln http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177379 mln Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:15:59 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177379 This thread is turning into a USSM group therapy session. Everybody take a deep breath and repeat: Serenity Now.... This thread is turning into a USSM group therapy session.

Everybody take a deep breath and repeat: Serenity Now….

]]> By: John09 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177375 John09 Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:10:15 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177375 186- That's great you know how to hit. I don't know you well enough to say more about that. Not succeeding this year? Depends on your defintion of success, he was able to execute his understanding today into getting multiple hits and hitting one off the wall for a two-out RBI double which as a Mariner fan you realize have been few and far between for the team. I realize one game doesn't a season make, but you have to look at what he does, in addition to what he doesn't. That's enough about Vidro for me. We'll see how it goes this year for him, I'll be pulling for him. 186-
That’s great you know how to hit. I don’t know you well enough to say more about that.
Not succeeding this year? Depends on your defintion of success, he was able to execute his understanding today into getting multiple hits and hitting one off the wall for a two-out RBI double which as a Mariner fan you realize have been few and far between for the team. I realize one game doesn’t a season make, but you have to look at what he does, in addition to what he doesn’t.
That’s enough about Vidro for me. We’ll see how it goes this year for him, I’ll be pulling for him.

]]> By: The Ancient Mariner http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177360 The Ancient Mariner Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:48:52 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177360 I understand how to hit, too; it doesn't mean I have the ability to execute my understanding well enough to succeed as a major-league hitter. Ditto for Vidro these days. I understand how to hit, too; it doesn’t mean I have the ability to execute my understanding well enough to succeed as a major-league hitter. Ditto for Vidro these days.

]]> By: John09 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177327 John09 Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:32:44 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177327 Reply to #182: My logic at the three levels you mentioned: 1-I realize listing only BA as a sole measure is not valid, however, I don't have the time to type in all that makes value. However, in my opinion if you look at the BA's of these guys you can see that Vidro isn't the black hole he's made out to be on this site. The BA is an indicator, I don't know what his OPS is compared to the other guys. My hunch is he's in the middle, but I guess I shouldn't say that since this site isn't about hunches (that's a good thing). 2-I'm comparing him to other #2 hitters because I think that's where he should hit. What does it matter that he's a DH? 3-I have nothing to say to that, he is terribly slow. However, I don't think it's real important. How many more bases will Beltre steal than Vidro? My point was to show that Vidro shouldn't be the whipping boy he is on this site. Just watch his AB's and you realize this guy understands how to hit. Are you happy Beltre is hitting second? Reply to #182:
My logic at the three levels you mentioned:
1-I realize listing only BA as a sole measure is not valid, however, I don’t have the time to type in all that makes value. However, in my opinion if you look at the BA’s of these guys you can see that Vidro isn’t the black hole he’s made out to be on this site. The BA is an indicator, I don’t know what his OPS is compared to the other guys. My hunch is he’s in the middle, but I guess I shouldn’t say that since this site isn’t about hunches (that’s a good thing).
2-I’m comparing him to other #2 hitters because I think that’s where he should hit. What does it matter that he’s a DH?
3-I have nothing to say to that, he is terribly slow. However, I don’t think it’s real important. How many more bases will Beltre steal than Vidro?
My point was to show that Vidro shouldn’t be the whipping boy he is on this site. Just watch his AB’s and you realize this guy understands how to hit. Are you happy Beltre is hitting second?

]]> By: Graham http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177280 Graham Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:12:27 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177280 John, I would take everyone but Harris and possibly Punto over Vidro batting second. John, I would take everyone but Harris and possibly Punto over Vidro batting second.

]]> By: Graham http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/comment-page-4/#comment-177279 Graham Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:11:06 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/26/credit-stealing/#comment-177279 The only reason Washburn is hitting well is because batters aren't hitting line drives off him. He's something like 3 standard deviations below the normal LD/BIA. The only reason Washburn is hitting well is because batters aren’t hitting line drives off him. He’s something like 3 standard deviations below the normal LD/BIA.

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