Comments on: Doyle to the A’s http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/ Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:00:02 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Dave http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-3/#comment-180243 Dave Fri, 04 May 2007 06:42:00 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-180243 We didn't stop liking the guy just because the M's made a bad trade. I hope he wins several MVPs and ends up in the hall of fame. He deserves it. We didn’t stop liking the guy just because the M’s made a bad trade. I hope he wins several MVPs and ends up in the hall of fame. He deserves it.

]]> By: Colorado M's Fan http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-2/#comment-180241 Colorado M's Fan Fri, 04 May 2007 06:08:45 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-180241 Now that Snelling is an A, shouldn't we refrain from calling him Doyle? I thought the point of using "Doyle" was to avoid jinxing him into being injured again. Now that he's an A, I don't think we should be giving him good karma. :P Now that Snelling is an A, shouldn’t we refrain from calling him Doyle? I thought the point of using “Doyle” was to avoid jinxing him into being injured again. Now that he’s an A, I don’t think we should be giving him good karma. :P

]]> By: Dave http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-2/#comment-179760 Dave Fri, 04 May 2007 02:07:12 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-179760 Read your comment again, Gomez. You're arguing that balls in play are better than strikeouts, which is obviously true, to support your first claim that a strikeout is worse than <em>any other kind of out</em>. A ball in play is not any other kind of out. You've got two seperate claims going on. If you look at a run value chart, you'll see that a strikeout is marginally worse than a popup, flyout, or groundout. But overall, they're pretty much all bad. Read your comment again, Gomez. You’re arguing that balls in play are better than strikeouts, which is obviously true, to support your first claim that a strikeout is worse than any other kind of out.

A ball in play is not any other kind of out.

You’ve got two seperate claims going on. If you look at a run value chart, you’ll see that a strikeout is marginally worse than a popup, flyout, or groundout. But overall, they’re pretty much all bad.

]]> By: Gomez http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-2/#comment-179756 Gomez Fri, 04 May 2007 02:04:36 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-179756 The K's = all other outs argument has to be one of the commonly accepted fallacies in sabermetrics. Balls in play can become hits. Strikeouts cannot. The K’s = all other outs argument has to be one of the commonly accepted fallacies in sabermetrics.

Balls in play can become hits. Strikeouts cannot.

]]> By: Evan http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-2/#comment-179710 Evan Fri, 04 May 2007 01:31:50 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-179710 <blockquote>Doyle: 11 Ks in 58 PAs Vidro: 9 Ks in 98 PAs</blockquote> Strikeouts aren't bad. They're no worse than any other kind of out. In fact, Vidro's awful speed might actually make strikeouts BETTER than groundouts, because strikeouts can't become GIDP.

Doyle: 11 Ks in 58 PAs
Vidro: 9 Ks in 98 PAs

Strikeouts aren’t bad. They’re no worse than any other kind of out.

In fact, Vidro’s awful speed might actually make strikeouts BETTER than groundouts, because strikeouts can’t become GIDP.

]]> By: Gomez http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-2/#comment-179674 Gomez Fri, 04 May 2007 00:07:20 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-179674 <blockquote>Actually, looking at those two lines, I’d say they are fairly equivalent. Sure, singles are better than walks, but it’s not a huge difference. Vidro is making outs at the same rate as Snelling, and Snelling is hitting for more power (.123 ISO to .076 ISO). Snelling has hit 23.7% line drives so far this season, and Vidro has 18.1% line drives so far this season. Snelling has a PrOPS of .875 so far as compared to Vidro’s .741. It doesn’t take imagination or irrational fanaticism to conclude that Snelling has been better so far.</blockquote> Um, no, Mat. Whether or not Doyle is better than Vidro is certainly a subject of debate, but Snelling has not been better than Vidro. I'm no Vidro fan, but... Doyle: 11 Ks in 58 PAs Vidro: 9 Ks in 98 PAs Even if Doyle's hitting more liners and producing more isolated power per capita, he's missing way more pitches per capita. Vidro's no star or talent, but he's currently doing a much better job of putting the ball in play when he has to than Doyle.

Actually, looking at those two lines, I’d say they are fairly equivalent. Sure, singles are better than walks, but it’s not a huge difference. Vidro is making outs at the same rate as Snelling, and Snelling is hitting for more power (.123 ISO to .076 ISO). Snelling has hit 23.7% line drives so far this season, and Vidro has 18.1% line drives so far this season. Snelling has a PrOPS of .875 so far as compared to Vidro’s .741.

It doesn’t take imagination or irrational fanaticism to conclude that Snelling has been better so far.

Um, no, Mat. Whether or not Doyle is better than Vidro is certainly a subject of debate, but Snelling has not been better than Vidro. I’m no Vidro fan, but…

Doyle: 11 Ks in 58 PAs
Vidro: 9 Ks in 98 PAs

Even if Doyle’s hitting more liners and producing more isolated power per capita, he’s missing way more pitches per capita. Vidro’s no star or talent, but he’s currently doing a much better job of putting the ball in play when he has to than Doyle.

]]> By: Lauren, token chick http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-2/#comment-179563 Lauren, token chick Thu, 03 May 2007 20:01:22 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-179563 Wow. This is perfectly timed, seeing as how I just started reading Moneyball. Awesome! Wow. This is perfectly timed, seeing as how I just started reading Moneyball. Awesome!

]]> By: CouchGM http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-2/#comment-179560 CouchGM Thu, 03 May 2007 19:58:12 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-179560 <blockquote>When the A’s come to Seattle, and Snelling’s name comes over the PA system, what will the reaction be? A) Small smattering of polite (and unispired) applause B) Large reception with clear ‘Doyle!!’ chants C) Puzzled faces and whispers of, ‘Hmm…isn’t that a similar name as that kid we traded away? Ya know, the one we didn’t need because we already have Willie…’</blockquote> D) (typical M's fan)....Who is he? He's cute....let's do the wave!

When the A’s come to Seattle, and Snelling’s name comes over the PA system, what will the reaction be?

A) Small smattering of polite (and unispired) applause
B) Large reception with clear ‘Doyle!!’ chants
C) Puzzled faces and whispers of, ‘Hmm…isn’t that a similar name as that kid we traded away? Ya know, the one we didn’t need because we already have Willie…’

D) (typical M’s fan)….Who is he? He’s cute….let’s do the wave!

]]> By: Mat http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-2/#comment-179549 Mat Thu, 03 May 2007 19:11:24 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-179549 <i>That said Vidro (who I would describe as “hot”) 315/357/391, Doyle 204/361/327; playing every day Vidro has 3 XBH and two came in the same game. Vidro has been better so far.</i> Actually, looking at those two lines, I'd say they are fairly equivalent. Sure, singles are better than walks, but it's not a huge difference. Vidro is making outs at the same rate as Snelling, and Snelling is hitting for more power (.123 ISO to .076 ISO). Snelling has hit 23.7% line drives so far this season, and Vidro has 18.1% line drives so far this season. Snelling has a PrOPS of .875 so far as compared to Vidro's .741. It doesn't take imagination or irrational fanaticism to conclude that Snelling has been better so far. That said Vidro (who I would describe as “hot”) 315/357/391, Doyle 204/361/327; playing every day Vidro has 3 XBH and two came in the same game. Vidro has been better so far.

Actually, looking at those two lines, I’d say they are fairly equivalent. Sure, singles are better than walks, but it’s not a huge difference. Vidro is making outs at the same rate as Snelling, and Snelling is hitting for more power (.123 ISO to .076 ISO). Snelling has hit 23.7% line drives so far this season, and Vidro has 18.1% line drives so far this season. Snelling has a PrOPS of .875 so far as compared to Vidro’s .741.

It doesn’t take imagination or irrational fanaticism to conclude that Snelling has been better so far.

]]> By: Adam S http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/comment-page-2/#comment-179517 Adam S Thu, 03 May 2007 17:57:44 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/02/doyle-to-the-as/#comment-179517 <i>I know it’s heresy on this site, but have you all considered that Bavasi maybe knows more than the rest of us? After all, I was sad to see him go too, but Snelling was barely hitting Mendoza in the NL, and have any of you been watching Vidro lately? The guy knows how to swing the bat. Soriano has an ERA approaching 6,</i> Sure, we've considered it. We've also considered that one month does not a season or career make and that Bavasi has no clue. That said Vidro (who I would describe as "hot") 315/357/391, Doyle 204/361/327; playing every day Vidro has 3 XBH and two came in the same game. Vidro has been better so far. Has he been playing like he's $6M better. No way. I'm curious to see how this looks in a month assuming the A's play Doyle every day. Soriano has an ERA of 4 and is the Braves closer now. (At least, check your facts.) He's had two bad outings where he's given up 3 runs in an inning and has otherwise been unhittable. I'd take him over any pitcher in the Mariners pen besides Putz and it's not even close. I know it’s heresy on this site, but have you all considered that Bavasi maybe knows more than the rest of us? After all, I was sad to see him go too, but Snelling was barely hitting Mendoza in the NL, and have any of you been watching Vidro lately? The guy knows how to swing the bat. Soriano has an ERA approaching 6,
Sure, we’ve considered it. We’ve also considered that one month does not a season or career make and that Bavasi has no clue. That said Vidro (who I would describe as “hot”) 315/357/391, Doyle 204/361/327; playing every day Vidro has 3 XBH and two came in the same game. Vidro has been better so far. Has he been playing like he’s $6M better. No way. I’m curious to see how this looks in a month assuming the A’s play Doyle every day.

Soriano has an ERA of 4 and is the Braves closer now. (At least, check your facts.) He’s had two bad outings where he’s given up 3 runs in an inning and has otherwise been unhittable. I’d take him over any pitcher in the Mariners pen besides Putz and it’s not even close.

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