Game 23, Mariners at Red Sox
Dave · May 3, 2007 at 3:31 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Ramirez vs Matsuzaka, 4:05 pm
Fearless prediction – Matsuzaka throws at least one breaking ball tonight that is harder than at least one of Horacio Ramirez’s fastballs. Also, J.J.’s unavailable today, so if the M’s head to the 9th with a lead, we’ll see Brandon Morrow get his first save opportunity.
Raise your hand if you expect to head to the 9th with a lead today, though. Yea.
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If we need any reason for optimism… here it comes… wait for it…
J.D. Drew is out of the lineup due to the Flu.
We’ll take what we can get? It’s not as good as it looks, Wily Mo Pena takes his place and Prediction! Hits one out vs. Ho Ram.
Tore rotor cuff raising my hand so quickly.
Oh, boy. Get ready for lots of “Gil Meche REALLY is an ace” stories after today.
My hand’s up! I have a gut feeling we’re going to smack Matsuzaka around, and end up winning 10-8.
Hey, if we win tonight, we’ll be back in a tie for 1st place! I’d raise a toast to Gill Meche for making that possible…
Baker blogs on the make-up dates, and says that JJ is not available tonight
Someone has been drinking the kool-aid (or just not paying close attention):
Three straight games! Unheard of!
Dice K vs. Seattle 2: Electric Bugaloo.
Now the question is; Can we withstand another barrage of gyroballs?
What goes unsaid: The M’s have been facing a bunch of punch-and-judy craptacular line-ups for the last 8 games.
Can someone explain the phenon of Gil Meche? Where is that top-of-the-rotation performance coming from? He just single-handedly beat the Angels. If the M’s win tonight, we’d be tying the Angels for 1st place, with a better W% though.
Oh, boy. Get ready for lots of “Gil Meche REALLY is an ace” stories after today.
Did Meche ever have a six-game stretch where he induced 56% groundballs last year? That’s the most intriguing thing to me so far. Where are the groundballs coming from? And his 2.0 BB/G has been pretty nifty, too.
I still wouldn’t bet $55M that Meche is a new man, but I also wouldn’t have expected him to become a groundball-inducing, walk-limiting kind of pitcher–even over a 6-game stretch.
Why the f does Hargrove refuse to play Broussard? Un-friggin-believable.
From Baker:
I’m hoping that Grover’s just throwing the reporters a bone here. Why would you have this planned out before the game…you know…actually happens? Seriously, if there is ever an opportunity to get creative with the bullpen, its now when he has a little cover. But no, Grover’s gotta have guys in roles….
Dice-K will want revenge after his last loss against us. Lucky for him, he’ll be facing our worst SP. (besides Weaver, who almost doesn’t count since he’ll be gone after Saturday)
Seriously, I fully expect HoRam to get shelled today. Nothing against him because I really want him to succeed. I just don’t see it happening today in any form.
Meche did have a good June last year… 3-0 1CG 6ER in 5 starts.
Why not sit Richie down against Dice-K (rather than suffer the 0-4 with 3 Ks) and give Broussard a spot-start at first tonight? Is that asking too much?
Broussard is still suffering from a stomach ailment that apparently caused him to drop 6 lbs very rapidly, he may just not be available.
This would be a good series to get Ellison a start.
17- Sexson seems to be coming out of the slump and Brossard looked down right awful when he did start. Brossard could take some hacks as a DH or PH you could think though.
Meche has had streaks of goodness. I’d be surprised, though, if he can be consistent for more than a month or two without imploding in a fit of wildness.
There’s always a chance that he’s matured or something, and is now consistently able to keep his motion in sync. We’ll have to wait and see.
How do you expect Richie to break out of his slump if you don’t play him? But then, when players get hot, you have to play him. Hmm…. I think I just channeled Hargrove…
19 – Raul could probably use a day off. Maybe if we get a lefty in NY Ellison could get a much needed start.
He views his departure as a mutual decision with, he believes, no hard feelings on either side. “Deep down, I knew I wasn’t going back. I knew I needed a change, a fresh start with someone else. So far, it’s paid off for me coming (to Kansas City).”
Meche is just 1-1 but sports a 2.55 ERA and has four “quality starts” in five outings. He has also pitched at least six innings in each start. “I needed to be the guy,” he admitted, “and that’s created a different mind-set for me as far as being a pitcher. I’m not trying to overpower anybody any more.”
Sexson hits about the same against righties as against lefties. Except he takes more walks against lefties.
No idea why this is so, but his numbers over the last 3 years are pretty similar:
LHP .263 .393 .529
RHP .261 .339 .525
And since the M’s have a hack and slash philosophy, the chances of getting a platoon or partial platoon with Sexson are slim to none.
Why would we want to get Ellison a start? The less he plays the better. Start Broussard if guys need a rest.
LETS GO M’s!!!
25 – one would assume that Richie sees the ball alot better when it’s coming from the south side of the mound. That doesn’t explain why he’s not hitting better vs lefties, but would seem to explain his significantly better batting eye.
Ellison isn’t a bad player; first-rate defensively, and a little better than Bloomquist as a hitter. I’d think you’d want to pair him with flyball pitchers in parks that expose their weaknesses.
Look, look, teh GYROOOOOoO-BaLLZZorz! LOLITOLDYUOSO!!!!
yawn.
“Raise your hand if you expect to head to the 9th with a lead today, though. Yea.”
Jesus, this is a blog written by Mariners fans, right? I come here sometimes and feel like you’d be happier if the team left town, just to take the burden of a poorly-run (but insanely profitable) business out of your city.
The first line of that comment was supposed to be wrapped in tags.
Johjima hits Dice-K so well, I really don’t understand the reason why Grover won’t move him up at least in this instance. I mean at least move him up to the 5 hole behind Raul. Dice-K is definetely a pitcher Sexson would tend to have major struggles against.
26 – Ellison should get a start here and there at Safeco when people need rests. On the road, I’m not so sure. He fits Safeco a lot better.
The problem with Hargrove being creative in his use of the bullpen (other than Hargrove apparently not being creative in any way in his entire life) is that there’s no upside. If he’s “creative” and it goes wrong, it’s just one more nail in his coffin. If he’s “creative” and they win, he will be unable to explain it (not to mention the inevitable questions about why he didn’t employ his imagination earlier in his career).
holy angle brackets, batman.
[WillCarroll] tags.
worst. joke. ever.
Jesus, this is a blog written by Mariners fans, right? I come here sometimes and feel like you’d be happier if the team left town, just to take the burden of a poorly-run (but insanely profitable) business out of your city.
Being a fan does not require one to stick your head in the sand and ignore the reality of the fact that this is a ridiculously bad matchup for the Mariners.
Dice-K is very average, he has gotten ridiculous run support. We have a chance in this thing.
ICHIRO!!! 41st consecutive!!!
Ichiro actually swiped a bag? woo!
Matsuzaka’s nothing like an average pitcher. He’s one of the ten best starters in the league.
31. Talk about Morrow closing, implies we’d have the lead in the ninth. To suggest that in the context of this game and leave it at that, without injecting reality, is insane. Besides, we have a right to a reasonable amount angst considering the recent history of this organization. Stating the obvious shouldn’t be looked at as obsessively negative. Also, do you think the fact that the M’s are insanely profitable makes us happier?
Looks like Dice-k can’t find the stike zone.
Three hundred Japanese media members just spontaneously soiled themselves on that steal. “What does this mean for the future of the nation?”
Am I hallucinating or was Beltre just very patient at the plate?
Dear Jose,
Dice-K has now walked two in a row. Would you be so kind as to take some &*!( pitches, please? Thanks.
40- What other good pitcher starts a game off with two walks? He can be great, but he has major control issues.
Back to the vile pits of the ESPN.com message boards with ye!
zsiron, you just don’t get it, do you? This is how we’re happy as fans. If they were winning every game we’d have nothing to bitch about, and we’d be bored and off mowing our lawns or something. We enjoy black humor, train wrecks, and the cold creeping hand of doom snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. And of course we enjoy victory too — all the more so when it’s unexpected. That’s the only way to survive 162 games of ths. It’s something we learned as fans in the 80s, and it’s served us well — whether you’re capable of understanding it or not. If you don’t like it, there’s lots of other blogs around, some of them trafficking in the kind of mindless “rah team” spirit you might prefer.
anyone else sensing triple play?
Matsuzaka is averaging 2.8 walks per game. Jarrod Washburn is walking 2.6 guys per game. Do you think Washburn has “major control problems”?
Matsuzaka has the 3rd lowest Fielding Independant ERA in the AL, behind only Beckett and Lackey. He’s really good.
If Sexson blows this inning because he is severely outmatched with Dice-K, I’ll want to slap Grover around like a ragdoll. Johjima should be moved up the lineup, and it would seem to me any good manager would agree.
Three straight walks?? Who are these guys?
3 already…
I’ve watched every Matsuzaka start this season, and I was in San Diego for the final three games of the WBC. I haven’t seen anything out of him yet to live up to the hype, other than the final game of that tournament against Cuba. He is a relatively average pitcher with tremendous hype surrounding him.
Wow. Jose Vidro just went an at-bat without taking the bat off his shoulder. That’s awesome. Can Rauuuuuuuul be patient, too?
Have we had 3 BB in one game yet? let alone in a row?
18 pitches only 6 for strikes
2.8 BB, 10.6 K, .57 HR per game – that’s not an average pitcher. That’s a Cy Young candidate.
yeah…one of the best ten in the league…three walks and a FC…and gave up ten runs in his last two starts…he may be one of the best in the future, but he hasn’t adjusted to the show yet…
Dice K was amazing in that final WBC game, worked it into 50 Million.
Nice we got a run there. However, Daisuke was still wild, and even that pitch was a ball. Don’t hitters usually take in this situation until there is a strike? That could’ve easily been a double play.
Read the Evaluating Pitcher Talent column on the left.
Um, guys: One inning is the very essence of Small Sample Size Theater. And Dice-K’s pitches aren’t missing by much.
48: I’m not looking for blind “rah rah, go team” at all… but there’s a big difference between that and the now-obligatory “This team sucks, here’s why they’re going to lose” game thread.
how bout a funk blast?
any of you guys having sound issues? I think it may be my local affiliate here in eugene.
HOLY CRAP!!
FUNK WALK!!!
WAY TO GO RICHIE!! Seriously, that was the best possible outcome of that AB
))))))
Johjima should get an AB here. This should be interesting. Stay out of the dp……
We all know the Cy Young is about Wins and ERA. Shouldn’t be as much, but it is. 3-2 4.36 Not Cy Young numbers.
Anyone else as aggravated by the stupid MLB.com pun headlines? “May” the best man win. WTF?! Don’t teams win, rather than players? What sport are they covering?
Let’s go Jose! Just pretend it’s Donnelly out there….
or a funk double! funk yeah!
Dice-BB just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Nice swing, Jose.
WOOT WOOT…M’s bats are alive (largely due to them being inactive!)
So how many runs do we need to have a realistic shot at this game?
I just found a great example of “opportunity cost”:
Sexson .151 / .244 / .397
Lopez .308 / .318 / .462
Beltre .267 / .319 / .407
Betancourt .229 / .236 / .357
That’s 18BB/44Ks for an average infield OPS of .685
Meanwhile, over in Miami:
Jacobs .311 / .400 / .541
Uggla .222 / .301 / .426
Cabrera .360 / .431 / .652
Ramirez .344 / .440 / .591
That’s 45BB/77Ks for an average infield OPS of .894
(And let’s not even talk about Ramirez’ insane SB rate)
Here’s the kicker: for ‘07, the M’s infield cost $28.4M. The Marlins? $8.57M (and 7.4 of that is Cabrera).
So for the price of Weaver, more or less…
Well Guillen has sure turned on the juice recently.
Daisuke Weaver??
72- nice…lol…
and the flood gates begin to open…
Funk Double!
I like the Guillen signing.
Wow.
that was an outside sympathy call.
And fielding like that isn’t helping any =)
get the bullpen ready…
JOHJIMAAAAAA!! He’s rapidly becoming one of my favorite players. Sure, his fielding is average but I think he’s a great hitter. Especially for the catcher position.
This inning has probably pushed the M’s win probability over 60%. A 4 run lead is a big deal, even for a road team with the worse pitcher on the hill.
Think we’ll see Pineiro?
wtg Kenji take advantage of the error.
funk yeah!
Someone send Julio Lugo a thank-you card.
4 runs and 1 hit
what about 5 dave?
Wow. So this is how it feels to have a big early inning. Daddy like.
88. That would be wonderful. We need to get our run differential back in line with our super record.
Hey, is this game on TV?
This scorer blows..those are 2 hits
The M’s are now pretty big favorites to win this game. That didn’t take long.
Channel 11 at home.
Dice-E?
Ah yes…channel 11. Hmm…Tivo decided to grab Oprah rather than the Ms game….the wife and I will need to have a chat
Fangraphs has the M’s at 89% favorites to win. It’s not really that high, since Fangraphs doesn’t know that Horacio Ramirez is pitching, that the Red Sox offense is really good, or that the game is in Fenway, but still…
100- more like E Lugo.
Manny being Manny. LOL, would love to have that guy I don’t care what anyone says about him.
Wouldn’t Yuni have had bothj of those E-6’s?
Holy poop. This is amazing even on GameCast.
Is it too late to switch Weaver’s start to this game? He just *might* be able to pull this one off.
Japanese Jeff Weaver WOOT!
I called my wife and she wouldn’t set the DVR, cold-hearted, I guess I should have remembered this morning before work.
5 runs on 1 hit. I don’t think I’ve seen anything like that before.
Crazy, Crazy. Perhaps one of the poorest first innings in history:
Pitcher walks the bases loaded to start the game.
Add in an HBP
Shortstop commits back to back errors.
Very ugly.
To the sub-thread about win percentage, Fangraphs has live win percentage charts. Kewl.
35 pitches in the first. I think t hat is a first this season.
If I read Fangraphs right the M’s have a 87% chance of winning this game. But I might be wrong
Oh boy, keep the ball down.
You have to read in between the lines for those live win expectancy charts, as Dave alluded to earlier. 87%… not so much. Still high, though.
5 runs, 1 hit.
Memo to Bavasi: walks and extra base hits are good. If you end up keeping your job, maybe try to sign guys who are good at those, instead of guys who aren’t?
Thanks.
And YuBet says: See, this is how it’s done.
just pray they don’t kill horacio…
Big Papi is looking a little thinner, no? Or is it my TV?
Adjusting for home field advantage and quality of teams, it’s probably like 70%. But either way, it was about a 40% WPA swing in the first inning. That’s huge.
Wow they’re actually taking some walks and getting baserunners on board….and then we we score? Cool how that works huh? Go figure.
As for the fan above that made that smart ass remark about putting your head in the sand…it’s true. There’s a time to be optimistic which seems to be never over here on this board.
We’re 7-1 over the last 8 games and we’re still looking for excuses to say the M’s suck. Yeah it’s still early in the season and we’re only 1 game above .500 but you know what…I like it and I’ll hold my complaints until we start losing again.
A lot of you are still bashing Vidro, but you know what he’s done his job over the last 10 games or so…which means I’ll hold my Vidro bashing until he starts to suck again. That’s the nature of the game…with some you guys is alway whining and crying even when we have a little momentum going for us. For those of you that are sensitive and hurt by this post…go ahead bash away.
You guys do realize, there is nothing more jinx-inducing than talking about win % in the first inning?
It would be great if there was some sort of statistical analysis that would project how a given pitcher would fair if he pitched all of his games in a given park, and then do that for every park. This way you could see before a game started that, for example, HoRam might have a projected ERA of 5.80 in Fenway but 4.5 in Safeco. Or something to that effect.
Okay, seriously, if you think we’re horrible fans, leave. We really won’t miss you.
Not that it would have changed the inning too much,but why was it smart of Lugo to get force at third with no outs rather than try for DP? Raul was the batter.
Dude. Why must you people post this crap? If you don’t like the prevailing tone, simply don’t participate. Find or create a Mindless Optimism blog and have at it.
Meanwhile, seeing Horacio’s headshot makes me remember that he really reminds me of… Jorge Posada, I think?
Jinxes are only induced 31% of the time when the inducement of the jinx is mentioned. It’s a proven statistic.
I guess Brandon might get that chance at a save after all… though let’s see how Horacio pitches before we get TOO cocky.
Good call, Lauren. He could be Posada’s twin.
#121 thanks Dave, I will try to take that into account. Mostly I have been looking at it as so moment to moment that the value at any point isn’t all that important.
Jinxes are only induced 31% of the time when the inducement of the jinx is mentioned. It’s a proven statistic.
It’s a scientific fact. And remember, 60% of the time, it works every time.
DizzleChizzle: if you are such a big fan, at least get our record straight. We are 2 games above 500, not 1 game above.
Think everyone here is very surprised and pleased after the first.
I could care less if you missed me or not, that’s besides the point. Try to think of a better comeback than that too while you’re at it.
Think everyone here is very surprised and pleased after the first.
Absolutely.
Anyone who thinks Dave is being too pessimistic or whatever and isn’t a good fan is an idiot. If he didn’t care about the team he wouldn’t be so critical sometimes and do a little research to back up his claims.
He wants the Mariners to build a great team and win the WS just like the rest of us here. If anything he cares a little TOO MUCH, if it’s possible to care about the M’s too much
Just a little under that one….
128: but isn’t there an irony factor, like the more you’re ahead early, or the greater the optimism, or the later in the no-hitter you mention it, doesn’t that 31% increase?
This isn’t a battle of the comebacks, Dizzle – either add something useful to to the blog or go away. Those are your options. I’m fine with you taking either one.
This blog oozes optimism when there is reason to ooze optimism. It is pessimistic when appropriate. It compliments the Mariners when a compliment is justified. It criticizes when there’s a need.
That’s why I like it. It’s a place of reasoning.
137- He makes us all better fans.
One other cool thing is that the M’s will miss Mussina and Pettitte in the Bronx this weekend, instead facing Igawa, Wang, and Rasner. We have a fighting chance (except, obviously, for the Wang-Weaver matchup).
Dizzle is looking for comebacks! Hahhaaha! Is this fourth grade?
Furthermore, let me identify “bashing” vs. “analyzing” for you.
BASHING: Jose Vidro sucks ass. He’s fat, ugly and smells bad, and can’t get laid to save his life.
ANALYZING: Jose Vidro’s historical numbers don’t provide much hope that he’ll be worth what we’re paying him.
MISSING THE POINT: People like Chizzle.
Dave, there’s a certain kind of fan that takes a perverse pleasure in being optimistic in the face of certain defeat, and then insulting everyone around him for not being “enthusiastic.”
I had season tickets in ‘01. I loved the summer. I had a great time. In the first game of the ALDS the Mariners got smacked around by the Indians. This was no fun. I remember this guy coming down into our section, while the M’s were down 5-0 in the 8th or 9th inning, trying to “rally the crowd.” He was yelling at us that we were bad fans for not supporting the team.
No. We’re season ticket holders. We’ve been out here fifty or sixty times this summer. Where the hell were you in April, pal?
We know that sometimes, the game is out of hand, and you’ve just got to let it slide. Save your energy for the next day. And sometimes, you just have to be realistic about your chances.
It doesn’t mean we’re bad fans. It just means we aren’t looking at the world through rose-colored glasses.
anyone know how to listen to this game for free online? I’m a longtime fan who’s going to college in cali and am getting sick of watching gamecast.
Wow. Miss the first inning and I’m gouging my eyes out in disbelief. May be I should skip the whole game.
Is there any system of generating WE% that takes into account the specific lineups/pitchers/defense? I realize that the equations involved would probably be pretty monstrous, but I wonder if anyone’s ever attempted it.
You know Lauren, I think all the things in BASHING might just be true as well…
anyone know how to listen to this game for free online? I’m a longtime fan who’s going to college in cali and am getting sick of watching gamecast.
There isn’t a way, but GameDay Audio is only $15 for the whole year.
The irony factor of jinx inducement has been scientifically measured to 7 significant digits and shown to be precisely inversely proportional to Jeff Weaver’s RA+.
Be that as it may, Dave, you and the USSM crew aren’t usually saying them.
I think a lot of the fat cracks work their way in around the edges, though. But for some reason I see the mindless optimism crew as more the type to make them.
Nothing like being up 5-0 and walking the lead-off guy.
People…questioning fandom of a group of guys pouring all of their spare time into a place for you to come and read and talk about the Mariners is really an empty statement. It has no validity, and is not supported. If you genuinely think there shouldn’t be reason for pessimism, then show us the evidence, please. Don’t just say you’ll reserve voicing your opinion until the Ms suck again.
Generally, I’m for more discourse rather than less…but this back and forth accusations of who’s a better fan is not discourse, its insult.
Is there any system of generating WE% that takes into account the specific lineups/pitchers/defense? I realize that the equations involved would probably be pretty monstrous, but I wonder if anyone’s ever attempted it.
I think Tango’s done a little work on that, but I can’t remember for sure. I don’t think it’d be as hard as you’d think – if you could build a reliable sim engine (MGL has one, and Diamond Mind might even work) you could run a thousand sims and get a pretty good estimate of the beginning WE for each team.
Hehehe. I said “fat cracks.”
149: That’d be an interesting statistical exercise.
Win Expectancy is, itself, pretty simple. It’s just drawing on a very large database to make its claims.
If I were going to adjust for lineup, etc… Oof. Hurts to think about it. Maybe use some variation of runs scored/allowed (third-order wins?) to try and handicap it?
Great start to the game, but I don’t like the approach the M’s took in the second inning. They seem to think the game’s over and want to be New York-bound ASAP. They’d be well served to continue working the count, not reverting to form. I can foresee this being a lot closer game than indicated by the current score unless they do so.
Scoring change – give Betancourt a hit in the first.
Here we go….
Hang on.
#133 I never said I’m a BIGGER fan or that I’m a better fan then anybody in here. I’m just trying to state that some of you continue to cry even when we have some positive things going for us. BTW Thank you for correcting me, yes we’re two games above .500 I can admit when I’m wrong. I can see my post is working since the two responses I’ve had so far is from one guy who wants me to leave because I’m just a Mariner fan who is happy that things are going good for us right now and another guy who instead of debating the issue with me want’s to point out a minor statistical mistake in my post which is totally irrelevant to the message that I was trying to convey. Can I at least get a welcome to the boards…I am after all a new member.
#137 oh there is a thing about caring too much for the team or about any sport. But yeah, I feel the information on USSM makes me a better fan. The more I know about the game the more I enjoy it. However, knowledge can sometimes be depressing.
God, I hope we score some more runs. We’ll need them.
Well…we all knew HoRam would show up! this is gonna get ugly
Cmon Ho, get a ground ball.
And the tying run comes to the plate. I’m not feeling so good about this.
i’m watching on NESN, and the sox comentators are the only ones that i’ve heard on the road this year that i didn’t want to strangle…
156: Dave, how easy is that to do in realtime, though? How long does it take Diamond Mind to crunch a game?
Awwww shit.
I didn’t want Horacio to pitch like he IS Posada.
He’s not actually pitching that badly. Varitek’s grounder was 6 inches away from a double play, and Pena fisted a blooper into the outfield. They’re not crushing everything he throws.
DP wishing here…
So now Fangraphs have us at 73%… so that would be like 55-60% in reality?
156./158.
Just wondering cause I saw the 87% WE up above, and I laughed because fangraphs obviously wasn’t considering the epic battle that is HoRam v. the Boston Lineup.
Wow what kind of message board is this…are we all suppose post thing and just be in agreement?
Wow what kind of message board is this…are we all suppose post thing and just be in agreement?
Who do you warm up in the bullpen right now? Morrow?
Doesn’t everyone get the feeling we will lose this game? I sure do
this is ridiculous…
163: One cannot hope to put the veils back over Salome’s face…but we can nevertheless love the dance.
*attribution: literary inspiration to Tom Robbins.
156: Dave, how easy is that to do in realtime, though? How long does it take Diamond Mind to crunch a game?
Oh, it takes forever to sim stuff in DMB. It wouldn’t be practical for anything other than a World Series game or something.
not good
U-G-L-Y
Yeah, Dave, but now he’s terrified of going near the strike zone. He, clearly, doesn’t think he’s pitching that well, walking the no. 9 hitter on four very nervous pitches.
Isn’t Pedroia’s only asset his patience? At least throw him something he can gidp!
Bleearrgh.
HoRam to the nth degree. If almost anyone but Weaver were on our SP staff, he’d be our worst.
It’s in a situation like this that the animated dots GameCast puts on the bases are particularly disturbing. They throb in an ominous fashion.
WE: 57%
Well that was fun for a while there…
Who’s pitching for Boston again?
176: No. You’re supposed to have logical, reasonable evidence for your claims. This is not a love-fest based on best-case reasoning. We’re realists, here, and realism means things like recongizing Horacio Ramirez’s vulnerabilities and the strength of the Red Sox lineup.
Might need Ellison in RF before the 9th
It’s amazing how fast a lead can disappear in Fenway. These guys can hit.
No, but if you’re going to criticize someone, at least make a coherent argument in support of your opinion.
….
If we only had a faster LF..
YUNIYUNIYUNIYUNI!!!!!!!!!
and our chances now?
Sorry if someone had asked this before…
Is it possible to make the game thread multiple pages or run by Flash? I really want to read all of the comments but it spend lots of time to reload this long page…
I heart Yuni.
Nice way to get out of that inning.
Breaking News: HoRam just broke fangraphs.
Wow is it just me or was manny ramirez running extra-extra slow there? If I were a Red Sox fan I’d be pissed. As it is, I find it a little amusing and ridiculous at the same time.
This is what comes from having a “hot seat” policy for the GM.
Hey, speaking of optimism… things could be a hell of a lot worse right now. The game’s been reset to 0-0 instead of us being behind by five runs. And with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out, no Sox scored.
Man, did Manny jake it to first, or what?
It’s not a message board, Dizzle.
This is what happens to M’s pitching when they aren’t facing the White Sox, Royals, and As.
Dizzle, this isn’t a board. And it’s customary here and elsewhere to wait a little before jumping in with the criticism until you’ve gotten a grasp of how things work. This blog wasn’t created the day you first heard of it. You’re jumping into the middle of a conversation already in progress. You also need to get the chip off your shoulder; from your few posts here, one gets the impression you came here specifically to start this exact fight.
Somewhere John Schuerholz chuckles quietly to himself and prepares for the era of Rafael Soriano, closer.
We need a new center fielder.
In the last two innings there were three balls out there that Reed would have easily snared.
So what were the chances of that happening? Probably less than Boston’s first inning WE.
We know the game threads pound the server, and we (meaning Derek) is looking into the best way to handle them. We haven’t figured that out yet.
Hang on a sec, weren’t we in the lead a few seconds ago?
They haven’t smoked him yet, that was a couple bloops, broken bat, and only one gap shot for the double…
WE is at 50% now… but reality should be like what, 40%?
Very interesting. After an hour of play, we have an even game.
I hope you’re kidding, jsa. Ichiro is a vastly superior defensive CF to Jeremy Reed.
I’m increasingly sorry I gouged out my eyes in disbelief after the first inning. Waste of two perfectly good eyes.
Hey, look on the bright side… you’re a fine touch-typer.
Is that true? are we the toughest to strike out in the league??
Thanks Dave.
uh, another retired side…
Problem now is the Mariners are back to their poor at bats and we all know Boston’s offense will devour HoRam…chalk one up boys! (pessimism runs deep within me as an M’s fan watching anyone pitch but Felix or Washburn)
Re: 211
what are you talking about?
This is the weirdest fangraph I’ve seen since I started watching ‘em live.
I guess the M’s feel like they’ve reached their quota for BB’s. You’d think putting up a 5-spot with only 2 hits would be more instructive.
well, that was an exciting bus ride– ten runs later.
How? sv_gravity 0?
If you don’t take any pitches, you won’t have any K’s looking.
You know what the Ms need right now? Some grit…where’s Willie?
Now that, my friends, is a joke.
I am relatively new, I know we don’t call it a board or message post. What is the preferred term? Support group?
Re: 220
The Ms have the lowest number of Ks at 111. (NYY at 130, SF at 138) Not a great way to measure since the Ms have played fewer games than most teams…
230: blog.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the M’s were one of the toughest teams to strike out; Ichiro, Johjima, Lopez, Betancourt, and Vidro are pretty tough guys to strike out, and that’s over half the line-up.
Most people call it a blog.
231- Thats what I figured they were going off, those sneaky announcers at NESN!
12 step program. We love the Mariners, but we don’t need the Mariners.
Nice D there Guillen…
230: don’t sweat it, you should have been here a while ago when I called it a forum. The snark-monster came out to play that day!
That’s an E-9. Double? Please.
236- We are going to need a lot more then 12 steps…
You know, you have a better feel for how this game is going to end if you look at the number of HITS each team has rather than the number of RUNS….
227: Watch how fast (slow) he runs at balls out there, and compare that to the all out effort Reed used to give. Fenway is not a big park. He’s 10 feet short, but never running hard.
Take off your “Ichi is God” glasses and watch his play sometime.
I’ve got a mountain of evidence that says you’re wrong, jsa. Ichiro gets to more balls than almost any other center fielder in baseball. You’re being fooled by appearances.
242- He is probably going to win another gold glove. Reed never will.
Nice catch there Jose. So I know this isnt the place for it but Dave is there either a website you can point me to or a topic for an off day game thread. I am a lifelong baseball fan but really BA / RBI / HR / ERA are the only numbers that mean anything to me. I need some education on what the 300 / 400 / 500 and the .600 ops all mean. I’m man enough to admit I dont know everything
Another great reason to love Geoff Baker. In-game blog: (I know it’s long, but it’s good.)
HoRam…enjoy that strike three gift! Awesome!
242 – Ichiro is one of the fastest CF’s in the league, he knows when to sprint and when to hold up on a play. Reed would more or less just go all out on a lot of plays. Sometimes he’d make a spectacular catch, sometimes he’d blow it and a ball would get behind him. Ichiro is smarter than that.
HO K! Way to come back and put up a goose egg.
The Ms have the lowest number of Ks at 111. (NYY at 130, SF at 138) Not a great way to measure since the Ms have played fewer games than most teams…
The M’s pitchers have the lowest number of Ks at 114, too. Not a good thing in sabermetrics…
242- we all know that Ichiro plays fairly conservative defense…and he didn’t look like he was going all out..but I’m not sure anyone else would have got it.
It’s not hard to strike out fewer than other teams when you constantly hack away at bad pitches early and often.
If your whole Reed>Ichiro argument is predicated on saying Ichiro is dogging it, or doesn’t give enough “effort”, I don’t know what to say except that 5 years of his play would beg to differ.
If on the other hand your argument is that Reed is faster than Ichiro, then I would say you’re nuts.
245, you could try this site: http://www.baseball-reference.com/
BTW, their 5.15 K/9 rate is lowest in all 30 teams. WOW
wow, that Baker sure is negative, he must love it when the Mariners lose
I had to do some homework when I first came to this site a few years ago, so don’t worry.
Its not rocket science, its harder
8 batted balls to the outfield, only 1 of them turned into an out. I think somebody needs to be reminded of Big Red Ron Fairly’s Keys To The Game:
* Keep the ball down
* Keep the ball down
* Keep the ball down
Bask in the wisdom.
Nice catch there Jose. So I know this isnt the place for it but Dave is there either a website you can point me to or a topic for an off day game thread. I am a lifelong baseball fan but really BA / RBI / HR / ERA are the only numbers that mean anything to me. I need some education on what the 300 / 400 / 500 and the .600 ops all mean. I’m man enough to admit I dont know everything.
For pitching stats, I’ll recommend my “evaluating pitcher talent” article thats linked over on the left side of this blog. For hitting stats, Baseball Prospectus did a “By the Basics” series a few years ago that should be helpful. Those can be found here.
Jose worked up the count nicely. Me gusta la paciencia!
Shut up, Lauren.
C’mon Ich it’s time to beat the demon that is in the inner most caverns of your soul, or whatever.
Few… that was a gift on a 3-0 foul out.
I love it when Ichiro swings on a 3-0 count. Love is a term for when you throw up in your mouth a little bit, right?
Adrian will chase the pitch at his eyes or feet, but that one that’s belt high just doesn’t tempt him.
263- Depends if it is a gag or a vomit. If its both its gavomiting.
so, having just heard the first three innings, how has the ball/strike calling been? were both pitchers really that off to begin the game?
If a manager can’t enforce plate discipline on his team in a situation like the 2nd and 3rd innings of this game, he should go into broadcasting or car sales or wherever washed up old managers go after their last, disastrous posting.
What is the optimal point at which to tear myself away from ESPN Gamecast to drive down the 205 like a bat out of hell toward home, while missing the least amount of baseball possible?
Red Sox got the scouting report the White Sox missed on the whole pitch outside and render Beltre as useful as a Dollar Store in Aspen.
The latest MLB team to have canned their manager.
Musical chairs, whee!
As a fellow PDXite who just sat on the 205, enjoy your gamecast for a while. It is raining afterall and us oregonians have never driven in it.
Pitches-strikes: Ramirez 64-36 (3 innings pitched), Matsuzaka 72-41 (4 innings pitched).
Mediocre K/BB ratio for both pitchers; HoRam’s is more or less expected (right?), but considering the hype for Dice-K, his is rather underwhelming.
Good walk to get to Ortiz, smart baseball.
I swear, the next SUV I see driving 50 on I-205 SB just because it’s raining a little gets my Civic Hatchback up its tailpipe.
3-0 he isn’t swinging just throw it in there!
See Adrian, Ortiz did not appeal himself on the check swing.
Look at Big Papi hustle! I don’t think I’ve ever see him move that fast.
276: Yeah, that drives me nuts, too.
277- When your jacking the ball half the time it is more fun to walk.
anyone checked his eyes? maybe they cross when he focusses in the middle like that
how does he enforce it, a blowtorch? pincers on sensitive bits?
Holy Crap, I thought I was imagining that Beltre is doing that. My girlfriend swore I was crazy – she was watching with me and didn’t see it, and anyway no hitter would ever do that.
oh, crap
God that ball almost left the building….ugh
meh.
I’ll guess the percentage to be around 30% now.
All we had to do was give up Soriano for this guy!!!!!!!!
Oof.
Okay, Ho-Ram, a tip:
Manny Ramirez’s weakness is not the thigh-high fastball out over the middle of the plate. Especially from a lefty.
Sigh. And the good ship Mariners begins to slip beneath the waves.
274. – I would love to have gone 50 today. boy that pitch was a meatball
Not exactly keeping the ball down…
Manny being Manny.
Manny, on the other hand, sees those pitches around the waist.
i really thought ramirez would be “alright” for us this year…and he was till tonight…he looks TERRIBLE…
What do you say if you’re Chavez? Uhhh…dude…don’t throw meatballs…
“Julio Mateo, getting ready”
White flag, being raised.
Get Weaver up quick…oh wait a minute he hasnt been moved to the bullpen yet has he?
Here’s a wacky idea, let’s have Morrow pitch 3-4 innings.
hrm… looking at getting into the bullpen early tonight, probably get there really early Sat night… gonna be a long road trip for the relievers.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2007 Seattle Mariners.
Maybe we could put Weaver in in long relief today and get most of the pain out of the way in a single game.
287- All we needs is a little constructive criticism like that and we will be back in the game. Good one.
Mateo + Fenway = Me watching Oxygen
293. When the Braves trade a pitcher a red flag should go off in every GM’s mind. With Bavasi…nevermind.
WE: 22% … but maybe closer to 15% chance of winning now.
You think whenever Schuerholz is in a bad mood he has an assistant find game footage of Ho-Ram’s starts this season?
Dave, what’s your take on the A’s getting Cust to DH, and how it affects Doyle?
To be fair to Ramirez, who I’ve said my fair share of negative stuff about, this isn’t the last time a pitcher in Fenway is going to get rocked. These guys can really hit.
I think we should just have HoRam pitch 4 innings for every start and have Weaver come in to ‘clean up’ or ‘make more of a mess’….we’re going to lose their starts anyways…just lump their sucky-ness together in one horrid game.
304 – Yes that’s a definite. What’s more, Soriano’s about to get his chance at Wally Pipp-ing Bob Wickman out of the closer job down there.
304. When he sees Soriano shut down a team Schuerholz smiles reminded how he hoodwinked Bavasi.
Cust sucks – he has no power when he’s not ‘roiding, and his entire approach is to stand there and hope you don’t throw him a strike.
If he takes playing time away from Doyle, it will hurt the A’s.
306- To be fair…he doesn’t belong on a major league roster
In defense of HoRam… I’ve seen another soft lefty, our beloved Jamie Moyer, get smacked around countless times in Boston.
He is still a fairly crummy pitcher, but it is more of an understandable beating when you are a soft throwing lefty pitching in Boston.
306- Agreed, If he only gave up 5 runs I was going to be happy and call it a good start.
eyup. since they have so much hitting, think they’d trade their Ramirez for our Ramirez?
When Moyer gets rocked, he’s probably more efficient, just giving up a lot of HR. HoRam throws 100 pitches in 4.
This is the opposite version of Washburn’s last two starts – this was good hitters smacking not terrible pitches. Now, I’m not saying Ramirez is good, but tonight isn’t indicative of his actual talent level.
I think I’m gonna go read DizzleChizzle’s comments again and laugh. Maybe bring my spirits up a bit.
301: What do you suggest? Clapping harder?
I’m waiting to see who the Sox use out of their bullpen. Okajima’s pitched the last two days. Papelbon looked awful in that game he blew and is probably getting rested.
There’s a chance of some Jo-el in this game.
314.
I think HoRam would be about 7th or 8th on Boston’s depth chart.
“With the fortunes of the franchise basically hanging on Felix’ arm, a prudent move….”
Chilling thought, however accurate.
318- I thought it was a funny comment, I was complimenting it.
In other news,
Tim Lincecum: Greatest Rookie Ever, or merely Rookie of the Year?
319- In fairness Boston has the best staff in baseball.
BOSTON DEFENSE!!!!!!
Jose Guillen – LOF’nL. That wink to the Home plate ump was classic. That pitch was well inside. BTW, nice bloop…. and we’re right back in it!
If we take the lead or tie there is NO WAY they send out Mateo right?
was that Pedroia making Sexson look like even more of a giant?
I think Anaheim has the best staff in baseball. I love Lackey, and Escobar is wildly underrated.
322: Greatest Rooke Ever = Pujols, 2nd = Liriano
321: Ah, fair enough. There’s been enough Tinkerbell Theory on this blog recently from know-nothings, I’m getting cranky.
My TIVO confirmed what I thought I saw… Guillen winked at the ump after that first strike call. Whatever else you say about the guy, he’s got style.
316: Having no outpitch has really cost him, though.
329: Neither of those guys were on my fantasy team(s).
I don’t know if it’s luck or skill, but Jose Guillen seems to have a knack for positioning himself as he runs from 1st to 2nd. That’s the 2nd or 3rd DP I’ve seen him break up due to adroit baserunning.
328- You are right, but I hate the Angels so I prefer not to think about their dominate pitching that kills us 19 games a season.
329: I think he was channeling Colbert with that. But to your point, Ichiro and his ROY/MVP award says hello!
Guillen is one crafty cheatin’ ballplayer. I love him.
I LOVE YOU JOSE
Run Yuni Run!
Nice distraction by Guillen!! That was a smart-as-hell play.
Sayonara Dice.
Please, for the love of God, bring in Morrow next inning.
Taking defense into account, anyone have a guess at Lugo’s WPA?
316: Having no outpitch has really cost him, though.
Yea, as has his lack of command. He’s a marginal major league pitcher being asked to get good hitters out. This is the result.
He’d have looked awesome against the White Sox had he pitched yesterday, however.
i love these NESN guys…even they are saying that was “smart base running” buy guillen
Best base running by a Mariner in YEARS!!! Guillen can’t be made fun for a week.
Fantastic piece of baserunning there by Jose. Very WFBesque.
Yu-Bet ownz Julio Lugo.
4pm the score is even 0-0
5pm the score is even 5-5
6pm the score is even 7-7
this is a wacky game!
Guillen is a gentleman of the highest order.
345. WFB isn’t nearly crafty enough to pull that play off.
Scrappy ≠ Sneaky
that style of base running fits nicely in the “cheater’s guide”
What the fuck is Mateo doing in this game!!!!!!
that reminded me for some reason of the obstruction call that ended the Tampa game back in ‘04
This should be fun.
350- That is just smart base running, nothing cheating about it.
Setting up the double play?
351- Grover is off the hot seat for now, back to his old ways.
Nice play by Yuni. Not so nice by Kenji.
Give that throw out to YuBet. The throw wasn’t even close.
The force of Wily Mo’s swing caused a massive jet of air to stop the ball dead before it hit the bat, rendering a harmless single.
Lord, that’s the FIRST runner thrown out by Kenji, out of 9, and he barely got him on a pitchout.
Wow, they almost managed to mess up a pitch out.
Putz is unavailable, so Morrow/Reitsma will be held back for the 8th/9th. So, the options were Mateo, White, Sherrill, and O’Flaherty. I wouldn’t suggest putting in a lefty to face Wily Mo Pena, so it’s Mateo or White.
Lesser of two evils.
um, he hasn’t pitched since saturday?
you know, when I see Mateo, I think of Monique The Pyromaniac on Kids in the Hall, who loved her job because everything was sooooooo flammmable.
Boston play-by-play guy: “Julio Mateo, hard-throwing righthander.”
Geez, HoRam and Julio certainly have helped WMP’s batting average. You know, Hargrove, don’t you, that WMP can’t hit breaking balls? SO WHY ARE HoRam and Julio dishing up fastballs to this guy?
I wonder what’s wrong with Daric Barton, such that the A’s would rather DH Cust?
Dave, thanks for talking me off of the ledge…I have a visceral reaction when I see Mateo.
Didn’t we establish that White was somewhat of a groundballer? I thought that’s what you’d want in this park.
White has no command – that’s not what you want against a patient team.
Mateo looks like Manuel Noriega Jr.
Dave, have I mentioned how much I love our bullpen? No…well, I must have been remiss…
W)#($*)(#@)$
I like Putz, Sherrill, and O’Flaherty. I have a love/hate thing with Morrow, where the player development guy in me screams everytime I see him, but I also recognize that he can help the team win this year.
Reitsma doesn’t do much for me, but he’s not horrible. Mateo and White suck.
TiVo says OUT!
Uhh, wanted to stay away from the 2-3-4 in this inning.
so, did the scorer give Lugo a hit to make him feel better for that error call earlier?
The Ms announcers are having serious fun tonight.
All other non-Adam-Everett SS wouldn’t made that play, Jeter would’ve done one of his spectacular jump/spin throws and not had the arm strength to get the runner. The error on top of the miscall just hurts.
Dave, I like Morrow as a player, but I’m worried that when teams start sitting fastball and actually doing damage against him, its going to hurt his development even more than what Hargrove/Bavasi are doing to him by having him up here.
Can someone teach Mateo a slide step, there is a base runner on.
377: Getting his FB shelled might be the only thing that’ll set management straight.
WOOOO! We get to face Ortiz with no one on base!
ok, those KUBE guys are really embarrasing themselves.
Mateo just needs to always come in to pitch with no one on base.
I didn’t realize Julio was participating in a “Let’s see how much I can look like Bartolo Colon by putting on 30-40 lbs Contest”
378. I don’t think you want Mateo pitching any worse than he’s capable of. He gives up XBhits that scores runners no matter where they are.
When did James Shields become a dominant starter? The Rays literally have a better staff than we do.
#375. “The Ms announcers are having serious fun tonight.”
Are they? I’ve been listening to the Red Sox announcers for kicks and giggles, and they DON’T sound like they’re having fun after that abortive bottom of the 5th.
Dice-K reminds me of the Public Enemy song, “DON’T BELIEVE THE HYPE!”
-Mateo actually didn’t allow a run and had to use A LOT of pitches
-Snyder in, Matsuzaka out
-Tie game
What more can the M’s ask for to steal an unexpected win? (OK, maybe Joel coming in after Kyle, but you get the idea…)
Ms have put themselves in a position to win, against all odds…I know my rally cap is on right now!
If Joel has to come into this game, and Mateo can pitch another inning without giving up a run, it’s ballgame.
this weekend:
Baek/Igawa
Weaver/Wang
Rasner/Washburn
DeSalvo/Batista
389
I agree, well that and being spotted five runs, would mean we just weren’t destined to win today NO MATTER WHAT I guess.
387- We have been patient at the plate, some good baserunning.
They are slowing turning into a baseball team. It is fun to watch.
Dang, that wind is killing fly balls out there.
The conundrum with Mateo, is if he gets lucky and pitches a scoreless inning, Hargrove knows he’s got his good stuff and can go another.
Good ol’ Kyle Snyder. I guess its easy to see why we couldn’t get even one run off of him. What with that sparkling lifetime 5.84 ERA and opponents only hitting .312 off of him in those 188 innings.
Beltre proves that even in that once in a blue moon game where he walks twice, he can still somehow look stupid offensively.
c’mon Beltre!
Myself- Never mind… Does that count toward the 32% jinx rate?
Beltre, that was unbelievably terrible.
This is a game of crazy ups and downs. I wouldn’t be surprised if a triple play ended this one.
That was Snyder’s 1st pickoff in MLB…
several brain farts by the Mariner runners the last week …
if mateo gets through these guys, we will win…
Is… is that a full moon?
Bad Beltre stalks the basepaths! *howl*
Well, the GOOD thing about the pickoff is that Ibanez will get a re-do of his plate appearance.
Mateo only allows a walk to Ortiz…amazing.
Now about Ramirez…sigh
Maybe Mateo should be pissed that he’s a terrible pitcher rather than a borderline call by the ump.
403
That is a good point. Maybe that was Prof Beltre’s strategy all along
Lets shy away from that belt high fast ball Mateo!
Isn’t it kind of risky to let ManRam hit against Mateo in any game situation?
Mateo pitches a long inning and Hargrove sends him out there for another try? After all, he’s only going to be pitching to David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez….
Boy, he got away with a pitch there.
Okay, nevermind, that was a filthy Euphus strikeout.
No movement in out pen means were trying to win a game in Boston with Mateo pitching 3 innings. That Grover sure has a set of marbles on him.
LOL @ Ortiz
This is seriously one of the most entertaining games I’ve ever seen, as far as little quirks here and there are concerned. The HUG by Big Papi, the basket catch by Ramirez, the wink by Guillen, the DISTRACTION by Guillen.
What a great game.
412
A hole in his marble bag is more accurate
It’s a Kodak Moment. LOL at the hug.
otiz is hilarious…
Ortiz is a friendly sort. Can’t say I remember seeing a tag out like that before.
That Felix bobblehead doesn’t even look like him. Who designs these trinkets?
Well 355, you called it.
This is such a wacky game. Normally I fumble around a bit during a game and am not always paying attention. This is one of those games that you just can’t turn away from or you’ll miss something memorable.
Does any pub/tavern sell beer for the price of Sexson’s batting average a buck fifty-two?
It we take them in order in the 7th and 8th Morrow is going to try and get a save at Fenway against Ortiz-Manny-Youk. Thats one way to see what a rookie is made of.
Should probably PR for Sexson here……
Can this really count as a slugfest if BOTH Mateo and Kyle effin’ Snyder manage to throw more than one scoreless inning?
I have officially jumped on the Guillen bandwagon today and am willing to drive. The base running, the wink, the ducking on the high curve to mess with the strike zone. He does the little things the M’s need.
I smell money on this one, GO KENJI!
Hooray! We didn’t swing at a 3-0 pitch!
Dang you wind!
No wonder Mateo didn’t allow a run after seeing Kenji’s blast wilt like that
Curse you Fenway wind… curse you
You’ve got to be kidding me!
How angry is Guillen at this pitching change? Donnelly is a dead man!!!!!!!!
427- You only smelt it cause you were down wind. That looked off the wall for sure.
Was hoping Guillen would pick up part of the broken bat and stab Donnelly.
#4 Dano, you could be right!
Lets go Reitsma!
Reitsma!
Great looking swing there by Lugo.
Dave- We ever see if Dice-K threw a breaking ball harder then that smoking fastball HoRam has in his “arsenal”?
The guy on that bobble head commercial, camping in front of Safeco, is kind of scarey.
What’s with this Fenway crowd, or at least the two or three who talk?
The M’s have had 7 walks tonight to go with 6 hits.
It’s the apocalypse!
the bobblehead guy wasn’t so bad the first ad, but in this 2nd ad he’s written a leeeetle too strange.
Donnelly looks beefier
And Beltre has not struck out swinging at a ball low and away, it is kind of eerie!
Wow…this game is going on a long time…anyone have the game time at this point? 3 hours 11 minutes…roughly…if they actually started on time.
Sherrill was born for this inning, lets go George!
NIIICE pitch!
Pineiro Sighting. We have a chance!
Reitsma! Nice pitch to Papi!!
Big time pitch there. Hot damn.
Made him look ugly, sweet pitch Reits!
Given the way flyballs are dying out there tonight, Pineiro might not be a bad option.
So both Batista and Matsuzaka give up 5 runs in two innings. Matsuaaka now has an ERA of 5.45. I would love it if Boston spent 52 million to get a pitcher that turned out to be ordinary.
We spoke too soon.
Should have thrown another curve… or walked him.
Manny just won the game. Grrrr.
you know, going into extra innings before a 10 game road trip wouldn’t be a good thing, but that doesn’t mean I want Manny hitting like Manny.
What a cocksucker. Standing at home plate until the ball lands in the bullpen.
Just out of curiosity, why didn’t Hargrove just put Ramirez on base and pitch to the next batter?
Second guessing here, but before the inning started I figured they would leave in Reitsma for the righty, put in Sherill for Papi, and bring in Morrow for Manny.
Oh well…
Hope we can get something off Donnelly.
Pineiro has the Force of Ex-Mariners behind him. He’ll strike out the side.
Remember to call KJR-AM tomorrow to complain about how we let him go.
That is the kind of thing that ruins a road trip, they need to bounce back this inning.
fuck.
Vidro gives us some hope. 2 BB for him today OBP of .400, without a hit.
If we pinch run WFB, we have a shot! Especially if Piniero comes in…….
whimper
damn
RICHIE!! lets go!
bad time for a crappy strike call
man wasnt that a beautiful swing on the breaking pitch?
So we put in Willie to do the ONE thing he does well…
and he never gets to go on four pitches
Cue the usual Sexson no clue wild flailing to end the game
Sexson imitating Beltre on strike 2
see 464
bad time for a bad swing at a bad pitch
Sexson being himself on the last pitch.
They don’t even bother to take out Romero for Sexson
Again, why did Grover put in Willie?
This game was lost in the bottom the second inning. I’m gone like a Manny blast. Good night.
see 473
uhhh thats a kick in the nuts.
We did just stick with the best team in baseball starting HoRam though. Got to be worried about Reitsma though, 2HR last two appearances.
479
Funny how the announcers kept using the wind as an excuse for our lack of power, yet we lose on TWO homers by Manny
I guess the wind didn’t hurt their power guy.
Manny just tied Stan Musial & Willie Stargell at 26th on the HR list ….
Man, a great, riveting game, but, alas, a gut-punching loss. With a 5-0 lead, we should have won this one. I sure hope that this is not this starts a death spiral on this rugged roadtrip.
Sorry, “…this is not the start of a …”
Why do we even have a bench?
Raul & Richie were a combined 3-27 of JC Romero. No Pinch Hitter?
Hey, have we ever hit 500 game thread comments?
482
Nah…it wouldn’t be like a Hargrove managed team to tank after another avoidable, gut wrenching loss
485, pretty sure I remember some comment threads that went at least into the 560’s last year. I’d bet there was one or two that went into the 600’s that I missed.
per Drayer, Hargrove still believes Manny was out on that pitch before the home run was hit.
The speculation is that Manny’s post-homerun posing was because he thought he’d just won the game inthe 9th
Hot-DAMN! I *knew* they could pull it out!
Boy I hate the Red Sox!! If they were playing anyone other than the team currently plagued by having Mike FUCKING Hargrove for a “manager,” I wouldn’t be rooting for them.
BUT
Since I’m officially the anti-fan until that idiot gets the heave-ho, good, quality, start-on-the-wrong-foot-rip-your-heart-out-and-hand-it-to-you loss tonight. This is the sort of loss that sets the tone for a road trip. This is the stuff of extended losing streaks. No more .500 ball, hangin’ around as mediocrities! Now if they can just get swept in New York, we’re on to something.
Funny how playing teams with actual major league *hitters* can make that “won 7 of their last 8* drum that Homer Riszz and Dave Sims were beating sound pretty hollow.
Just goes to show, you can’t play Texas and the Royals every day…
Here’s to a long losing streak and Hargrove fired by mid-month!
488
Then all we’d have had to do was shut down the BoSox for the next 5-7 innings until we finally pushed another run across. ONE hit the last four innings…pathetic
488
That may be the case, but if I’m on the mound the next batter is still taking a fastball to the ribs….
I defer to Jim Leyland on the subject.
I think Reitsma is going to turn into a pretty valuable pitcher for the M’s. He’s got a great change up, decent fastball and a serviceable curve when needed.
He’s got to throw more strikes and not get deep into the count. He should use the fastball early and use the change up as his out pitch. His fastball is good enough that he can pound it inside to get ahead in the count.
He’s much more usefull than Mateo in the pen and should be the long reliever of choice in any close game.
It would be a shame to stop this short of 500 comments!
I was in the car listening when Manny hit it out… even Niehaus said that he was really strutting. Actually, Niehaus said, “That boy can hit!” Careful, Dave, that kind of stuff could be a little sensitive when you’re talking about a non-Caucasian ball player. But he’s just old school.
Anyway, I had the same thought–why give Manny a high fastball 3-2 (that’s what Niehaus said it was)??? He’s scary good, already had one home run… put him on!
I missed the 9th, but I knew we wouldn’t score. We’d shot our wad.
Ah, whatever. It was a great game.
I was listening to the game on the radio, but if I read the replays correctly, Manny didn’t leave home until the baseball landed. Jackass.
Hes never been known to be much of a classy guy, but whatever… Manny being Manny.
496- Boston is getting smashed in the 1st inning and he turns a routine pop-out into a basket catch and laughs with Coco Crisp about it…he’s a big goof…he laughs at himself when he does something dumb and loves watching baseballs fly from the perspective of homeplate…maybe after throwing a 3-1 slider, Reitsma shouldn’t throw a fastball down the middle. Didn’t understand that pitch at all.
Got Weaver and his sexy ERA…and HoRam’s 6+ ERA…who didn’t see this coming? (I know…Bavasi…but seriously). When does Parque get called for veteran presence and a sub 30285.38 ERA? (kinda a joke..but random pitchers are welcome when we know what horrid pitching we will get out of the rotation we have now.)
Granted, there’s a pretty good way to prevent Manny from getting to do his struts against us:
STOP THROWING HIM PITCHES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PLATE!
This is the kind of crap I hate.
If we suck, yes Hargrove should and will be fired, BUT YOU DON’T ROOT FOR THAT TO HAPPEN!
By Kolloen in the PI (cuz I don’t have anywhere else to put this):
Weaver basically throws batting practice, you can hit above .492 in batting practice. I see no change coming at all.
#209…I know this is a little late, but I felt I needed to respond. My mistake..this is not a message board. It has been noted. Also I’ve visited here many of times over the years and only decided to start chime in yesterday. There are a lot of intelligent baseball/Mariner fans on this board..you seem to be one of them. I don’t have a chip on my shoulder, I apologize if that’s how I came off. If anybody has a chip on their shoulder it’s the ones who were angered, annoyed, or offended by my first post yesterday. I was only pointing out what I thought was the truth in my eyes and fortunately for me I was able to get a rise out of a handful of the people I intended to target. It’s blatantly obvious what I must do in order to fit in here since a select few of you seem to gang together. I guess I’ll try and conform….at least I’ll do my best.
502: You don’t have to conform. And no one says you can’t be happy with the M’s current record. But if you’re going to criticize the pessimistic outlook shared by a lot of people here, you need to rise to their intellectual level by making logical arguments grounded in useful baseball statistics. Saying “Vidro has done his job the last 10 games” doesn’t get it done.
More importantly though, posting to “get a rise out of a handful of people” is called trolling. It’s a great way to turn people off to what you have to say, no matter how cogent it might be.