Game 31, Yankees at Mariners
DMZ · May 11, 2007 at 6:32 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
Darrell Rasner v Jarrod Washburn! 7:05, FSN.
Heyyyy, it’s Josh Phelps again! What’s up, Josh?
M’s offer their new standard lineup:
CF-L Ichiro
DH-B Turbo
LF-L Ibanez
1B-R Sexson
RF-R Guillen
3B-R Beltre
C-R Johjima
SS-R Betancourt
2B-R Lopez
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So, does Phelps see a lot of high & inside pitches, or is it all even at this point? Given the M’s “family friendly” emphasis I’d expect they’d rather pick their fights on the road….
Do the M’s owe the Yankees some payback for the Proctor incident?
Yes. Yes they do. Plus Washburn remembers that Guillen will beat him up if he doesn’t protect his hitters.
I am thinking since Proctor didn’t actually hit Yuni and he was suspended the M’s don’t have much grounds for starting anything. You can’t throw at Proctor anyways so I don’t know who you take it out on. The Phelps incident has been settled fairly.
Hold Proctor’s head down in banned clubhouse beer.
By the way, Willie — the M’s player rep — is coming out against a Seattle clubhouse beer ban.
Yes, definatly pay-back. Even if we don’t have the grounds for starting anything. Maybe we should start it this time. A pre empitive strike!!
We should have let Weaver start this game, hit someone, start a brawl. No one join in to help out Jeff besides HoRam. Put them both on the DL with a ass-beating.
Sanjaya Malakar is appearing tomorrow at a Poulsbo car dealership. Any suggested headlines, since I’m the night news editor tomorrow? Maybe something that contrasts his ebbing fortunes with Blake Lewis’ triumphant M’s pre-game appearance?
Sexson hitting 4th?!?!
GO M’s!
not to mention that Blake got a parade with special Matt Hasselbeck appearance too.
I hear the Yankee Fans are out in force.
YES Analyst Ken Singleton thinks Rasner wil be ok tonight, as the Mariner hitters go up hacking and are not patient hitters.
Got to love the continued hate and discontent for ARod after all these years.
First game thread with this new look; it’s going to be an interesting game!
I love watching a decent pitcher on the mound…kinda fun
Isn’t there a statute of limitations on how long M’s fans can boo A-Rod? I mean, really. Give it up already.
4 GBs for Washburn
we will NEVER stop booing PAY-ROD…
#8– um.
Tyger! Tyger! burning bright …
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Ich!
If he left under different terms we might stop, he shafted us and left for the worse team in the division cause the money. BOOOOO!!
Sigh… let Ichiro steal!
Nice… lets go Rauuul! Earn those U’s!
He didn’t shaft us. He went to the team that blew everyone else out of the water with their offer. He played his ass off while he was here. If we can cheer the returns of Griffey and Randy Johnson, each of whom lft under circumstances at least as fraught as A-Rod, we ought to have the decency to remember the good years Rodriguez gave us, and get the fuck over it already. Booing him makes us look petty. Especially when our organization sucks mightily, so who gives a damn if we boo them? Like A-Rod’s going to look at the state of things here since he left and be sorry he left? Please.
It was a shock to hear commentary about how the M’s need to walk more. Beats the mindless rah-rah-rah about how the M’s play the game.
“Isn’t there a statute of limitations on how long M’s fans can boo A-Rod? I mean, really. Give it up already.”
Ted Williams got booed in opposing parks for his entire career. Granted, he was a jerk, but really…
Now Josh Phelps, in contrast, deserves to be booed for his previous bush league play on Kenji.
And that’s not even taking into account the fact the loyalty doesn’t mean a damned thing if a player isn’t free to choose. a-Rod had no choice about being a Mariner; why should you expect him to not do what’s best for himself? We fans behave like players owe us something other than their best effort, like they should be so grateful that we cheer them that they’ll forget that they could have been drafted by any team and the fans would have cheered them there, too.
Isn’t there a statute of limitations on how long we have to explain to people why A-Rod didn’t screw anyone?
A-ROD said he was going to Texas because he wanted to win, but they were a last place team…he flat out lied…i know it’s a business, but be a man and stop worrying about your image and making everyone happy…he’s a self-centered, pretty-boy pussy…i hope he never wins a championship…
He could have never signed with the Mariners, he had that option. When he was leaving if he said “I just want lots of money” then I would be ok. He said he wanted to compete on a good team, then went to the worst team with the highest bid.
“Ted Williams got booed in opposing parks for his entire career. Granted, he was a jerk, but really…”
Ted Williams was booed in OPPOSING parks because he was a great hitter. It’s generally customary to boo the best players on the opposing team, no?
Wash! Atta boy! Good to see him dig out of a hole.
Exactly. A-Rod didn’t tank it when he was here. He didn’t constantly bitch and moan about getting a new deal. His only “mistake” (if you even want to call it that) was the fact that he alluded to the fact that he wanted to play for a contending team and turned around signed with the Rangers. But even with that, the guy is allowed to change his mind and he is allowed to do whatever he wants when he’s a free agent. He was under no obligation to stay in Seattle. He did what was supposed to do when he was here and left when a more lucrative opportunity presented himself. If any one of us were offered an astronomically huge increase in pay to work somewhere else would’ve done the same thing, so I don’t see how anyone can criticize his choice.
I see no reason to not boo A-Rod.
BH and Bako, from his perspective, I can see how he might have thought that an organization willing to toss $252 million at one player would be an organization commited to improving their record. Granted, it flopped, but it flopped because of Chan-Ho Park and their inability to find pitching.
but they were a last place team…
No, they weren’t.
he flat out lied…
No, he didn’t.
“Sanjaya Malakar is appearing tomorrow at a Poulsbo car dealership. Any suggested headlines, since I’m the night news editor tomorrow?”
Will his sister be there?
35- They finished last in the AL west the year before he went to them. TRUE
He wanted to play for a contender. Texas wasn’t then and still isn’t contending partly cause of his contract. TRUE
Mind-reading is silly. You want to hate the guy, fine, but don’t pretend it’s because he “lied”. It’s hard for me to beliee that you can seriously believe he didn’t think the Rangers were set to win when he went there, yet I’m not going to call you a liar because you’re saying something that seems hard to believe to me. Is it really difficult to understand that people will tell themselves what they want to believe, and that A-Rod almost certain believed Texas could win beyond the evidence available because it gave him a good reason other than the money to sign with them? Doesn’t everyone bend their reality like this? It may be foolish, but it isn’t lying.
Oh, that would have made him popular in Seattle. J.D. Drew has never stopped being derided by the media and fans for telling the Phillies to shove their offer. Any young player who doesn’t truckle to the system is reamed out for their arrogance.
And if he hadn’t signed with Seattle, he would have ended up some other team’s property. (Thin about that word, and how you’d like it applied to you.)
#37 – A person (famous or not) is allowed to change their mind about their place of employment and (famous or not) they are under no obligation to keep everyone in the loop on that decision.
If you can honestly say that you’d turn down a job offer that paid you 5X your current salary (for a comparable amount of work/similar line of work), then I guess you’re a better person than about 99.9% of the population.
I dunno why anyone would criticize a professional for taking the best offer. I mean, he could have had silly money and remained a hometown hero, but he went with sillier money. Fine.
I wish to add my light to the glowing-… no, wait, I’ll just submit my comment
hehe
Washburn is pitching like he did a few years back…looking sharp
This is sports. It’s supposed to make my life more enjoyable. Having a villain to root against is fun. As long as no one takes it too seriously, where’s the problem?
And how come Dave doesn’t seem to like the AFLAC Duck anymore?
There is, and it expires right after we have to stop explaining how ERA is not a good predictor for pitching ability, and how “value OBP” wasn’t the sole, entire point of Moneyball, and what “replacement level” means, and how stats vs scouts is a false dialectic, and….
I agree with #33. A-Rod and Johnny Damon are representative of half of what’s wrong with Major League Baseball. Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi make up the other half. If only Barry would go to the Yanks. I would have to no reason to hate any team but New York.
#8 — my paper did a story on the Blake Lewis business today because a local dealership supplied the Fords used in the parade. How did the Seattle area produce the most polarizing contestants on that show this year?
Hey, it’s Pay-Rod!
I’m on the “stop booing A-Rod” wagon. He left the Mariners over six years ago. Get over it.
Christ, stop with the booing already. Guy hit almost 200 HRs when he was here. Yet they cheer on WFB.
Ms “fans” need to get over the “anyone who leaves for another team is a TRAITOR” mentality.
45 – maybe if he were an Indian or a Giant or something, sure. But it doesn’t help matters that first he was on a division rival and then he joined the Yanks.
I wonder if we’ll boo Ichiro if he goes to the Yankees.
Heck, I wonder if we’ll boo Junior if he comes back, because he “left for the money” too.
Speaking of booing and such, I’ll be at the game when Griffey comes back (June 22). I will stand and clap. I hope that the rest of the people at the park choose to do the same.
It helps those that want to boo him that he ended up with the Yankees..kinda renewed some hatred for many I bet.
#45 – Seriously. I wonder if the people who are in favor of booing A-Rod would also have bitter feelings about an ex-girlfriend 6 years after breaking up with them? I don’t even understand what booing him really accomplishes.
48: Actually, Griffey signed with the Reds for about half of what he could have.
If Ichiro leaves after this season (or even mid-season), will he get booed?
Hold on, I wasn’t paying attention, but Fox was advertising the Yankees-Ms game as a “battle of aces.” Um, who are they referring to?
52 – doesn’t matter! Junior is a TRAITOR! I’m going to start booing him now, may as well get started.
#46 – I think part of the reason for this mentality stems from the fact that a lot of M’s fans have seen certain core guys stick around forever (Edgar, Buhner, Moyer, Wilson, etc) and they think that the players are under some obligation to stay because others have done so in the past. Players spending their entire careers/lion’s share of their careers with one team is not the norm, it’s the exception. And to expect a player to do that is to set yourself up to be bitter and disappointed.
53-Depends if he leaves for a contender or ends up with Texas for 200 million.
53 – as long as he stays away from the Yanks and the AL West (and the hated Padres of course), probably not.
Ichiro!
Rauuuuul earning those U’s!
Was someone booing Sexson? Funny, I thought DMZ was here and not at the game.
I think the FSN tracker is off a bit
Because if Texas had won a division title when A-Rod went there, the Seattle fans wouldn’t be booing him now. Uh-huh.
DAMNIT..Im tired…so FJP*(#U tired of first pitch swinging
9 pitches for 6 batters
my ONE grip about A-ROD is that is was two faced…i have nothing against taking the most money you can get…be honest and say it…and if you want to talk about getting over stuff…who is this DOYLE guy that people are crying about…
No cause he would have turned them into a contender.
At the time they were the worst team in the West, thats why we boo.
I thought Taco Del Mar’s middle name was diarrhea.
lol them Sexson beers are getting up in price lately
At least this time we got two hits on four first-pitch swings. And got a run out of it.
66- That is all I am trying to say.
At least some Mariners fans know about Phelps and are deservedly booing him
ok, another item for the to-do list; a Common Mariners Fallacies FAQ.
#66 – I can’t personally relate to the sadness of the Doyle departure because I wasn’t as big of a fan of his as many on here. I disliked the deal from a (lack of) common sense perspective more than anything. But, the main distinction between bitterness over Doyle’s departure and A-Rod’s departure is that Doyle left after last season. A-Rod left after the 2000 season. That brings me back to my original question regarding the statute of limitations on booing A-Rod.
66… we’d still boo him for being greedy.
You know, at least Red Sox fans have creative ways of taunting the Yankees. Even the “Yankees Suck”, done by 40,000 synchronized fans, is a work of beauty.
Nice play, maybe?? Lets see a replay.
Torre is so calm when he runs out..makes me laugh
hahaha…FSN had that Bloomquist replay ready to play..bastards
Is Sexson ok?
Continuing from the ex-girlfriend example in #51 (nice analogy, AQ). If your ex-girlfriend broke up with you 6+ years ago, and you continued to call her every night because you don’t understand why she broke up with you for that other guy, then you would be a loser. The people who continue to boo A-Rod are like the ex-boyfriend in the example.
Is Tony Pena the first base coach for the Yankees now? I caught a glimpse of the coach and could’ve sworn that was him.
More mind-reading. Is that really the best you can do?
I don’t believe anyone — including you (hey, mind-reading is fun!) would actually have forgiven A-Rod if he said he was just going for the most money. If you don’t understand that when players make these decisions, it isn’t, in their own heads, all about the money, then you don’t understand how people think. Just try to put yourself in the same position. What would you be telling yourself?
Grow up.
what happened to sexson? I can only watch from gameday..
“Is Sexson ok?”
Outside of sucking?
Getting all these calls is better then actually beating them because all the whining the Yankees fans do afterwards.
A-Rod is booed out of jealousy: a clear superstar, entering his prime, and he left the M’s when they were pretty promising. It was hard to take. It sucks to watch him be absolutely great someplace else.
And it’s fun. And it may rattle him a little, which really, the M’s rotation needs, against guys like A-Rod.
81: You are correct.
Also if Ichiro! leaves, it would be a lot more understandable since the team sucks now.
Win Expectation up to 68%.
80- But if your gf said she didn’t care about money then started dating some tool who drives a Corvette. But you don’t want her back, you just like to make fun of her for it.
Interleague play! Wooohoo!*
*sarcasm
Hey, taking pitches!
#90 – There’s a mitigating factor that we’re overlooking though: Does the new boyfriend (aka the tool) have a mullet?
Johjima Blast!!
Kenjiiii!
JOJO!
Yo Joh!
93… and what if the guy with the mullet played on the same team?
Yup, a mullet and his licence plate says VettGuy.
90: I think a lot of us have had an ex-girlfriend who started dating a tool after she broke up with us (I’ve had that happen, anyway). You suck it up and move on; you don’t dwell on it. The Mariners were better after A-Rod left. There is absolutely no reason to boo.
Yes! Kenji has done so well for my fantasy team! Great job for that kid…too bad he’s wearing a stupid hat.
86: exactly.
I had this whole thing written out about how I probably wouldn’t do him, but I do still pretty much hate him, but I know the haters are totally ridiculous, but he just seems so smarmy and miserable…
But none of that would really matter if it weren’t for the jealousy. He could be the same megalomaniac primadonna, but if he was still on the Mariners I would find a way to support him to the death. It just hurt to be spurned. And part of me is still mad. It’s not particularly reasonable, and it doesn’t need to be, in my opinion. It is what it is.
Onto the game though. How about that Washburn?
I think abandoning The Offseason Plan when Kenji suddenly became available goes in Bavasi’s ‘Good’ column.
you got to love when their bullpen is stirring in the 4th.
Not one FUNK BLAST! I am not going to lie, a little disappointed.
#101 – Not to mention that fact that he looks like the mutant offspring of Carrot Top. The kid, not Kenji, of course.
Vote time. Do I keep watching or continue with my “Lost” marathon (now into season 2. Please don’t spoil.)
New and improved Ichiro? Taking pitches, stealing and walking all in the same game?
“I had this whole thing written out about how I probably wouldn’t do him”
I assume that was a Freudian slip? LOL!
Lets hope Washburn has the anti HoRam gene and keeps the lead.
#81–
Manager & Coaches
6 Joe Torre Manager
23 Don Mattingly Bench Coach
52 Tony Pena First Base Coach
50 Larry Bowa Third Base Coach
54 Kevin Long Hitting Coach
49 Ron Guidry Pitching Coach
57 Joe Kerrigan Bullpen Coach
AQ, no, he doesn’t have a mullet. He’s a clean-cut, high-powered, businessman who likes to throw his wait around.
Boo him! I mean boo him!
Hoo-boy, that’s my best freudian slip in a while.
#112 – So, in other words, he’s Michael Corleone?
I am also disappointed there was no FUNK BLAST for Kenji’s HR!
Now if you think it’s silly for us to boo A-Rod, does anyone understand why the Yankees fans do that?
Looks like that FIP is going to be dropping! Keep it up Wash!
恐怖の送風
Funk Blast in Japanese. Sorry it took me awhile to figure out.
118- That made my day, thanks.
Revisionist history is so convenient. A-Fraud earned those boos with his disengenuous free agency. Logic has little to do with it, and those that insist that A-Rod had every rational reason to sign with Texas are entirely correct. But that isn’t why we boo. A-Fraud’s doublespeak didn’t hide the fact that the M’s were never in consideration for his services. We knew he wasn’t coming back, and we knew his “explanations” were bogus, and we, the fans, don’t like being patronized by a “competition bigot” who didn’t even sign for competitive reasons. A-Fraud treated Seattle like a second-class town, and we will never forget that. So, leave your “logic” in the trunk and bring your “boo” to the 300 level.
Washburn isn’t exactly dominating, but he is looking sharp. He also looks like a rabbit.
Man, Ichiro and Washburn seem out for blood tonight. I know we all know that we can’t assume players bear down at certain times or whatever (because why wouldn’t they at other times too then?), but when things are going right, it sure is easy to see why that’s such a compelling way to look at things.
sweet japanese funk blast. I fully expect to see more funk blasts if and when we hit another HR tonight
M’s fans have seen certain core guys stick around forever (Edgar, Buhner, Moyer, Wilson, etc) and they think that the players are under some obligation to stay because others have done so in the past. Players spending their entire careers/lion’s share of their careers with one team is not the norm, it’s the exception.
It’s not just “M’s fans” or “certain core guys” sticking around. Back in the day, when baseball was a game without 75 bazillion dollar contracts and BALCO, guys *did* spend their entire careers with one team. Guys who didn’t were the exception and when someone made a trade it was a straight-across “My-guy-for-your-guy” and it was huge news.
A-Rod et al. personify the fact that the game is not grounded in pure sport and love of that sport anymore. Like so many other things, it’s become all about the Benjamins. I hate that I don’t know who’s on what team anymore. I don’t even remember who’s on my team anymore.
And speaking of money: Barry Zito is on TV…
#121 – I think 7 LOB for the Yankees (with no runs allowed) through 5 innings speaks to it being more of a luck factor than a sharpness factor at this point.
Two hits for Sexson… nice
SEXY!!!!!!!
Sexson, your off my shit list. Congrats!
Sexson is totally heating up!
I tried to quote what someone said earlier but it didn’t seem to work… the first paragraph in #124 isn’t mine.
Hey, Blowers says it would be a good idea for Mariners to score a few more runs. Strategery!
It’s not just “M’s fans” or “certain core guys” sticking around. Back in the day, when baseball was a game without 75 bazillion dollar contracts and BALCO, guys *did* spend their entire careers with one team.
I think the reserve clause had a little to do with that…
“It would be a good idea for the Mariners to score a few more runs.”
Really? I never would have guessed that would be a good strategy.
lets go beltre, lets go!
Damn, another walk. Are we working this guy, or is he throwing a lot of obviously crappy pitches?
Catch of the year by the fan? Granderson’s catch was like Mays vs Wertz? Dave Sims has an enlarged hyperbole gland.
Sexson went in cleats up..sweet..take him out!
Baron Davis just dunked on Kirilenko and his family
AQ, Michael Corleone? The Yankees aren’t that cutthroat and they’re much more purebread Americana. They’re more like the Bush family or someone like this. Look at those fascist haircuts they force everyone to get. Good lord.
Washburn just can’t seem to have a 1-2-3 inning.
#131– yup.
iirc, they have done studies tracking player movement through the years, and other than the star players who weren’t allowed to leave, so they did indeed stay their whole careers with one team, the shifting of players from team to team has stayed about the same.
“I’ll tell you one thing that hasn’t changed in baseball, despite what so many people who try to glorify our era at the expense of the modern players will tell you. We played for the money, too. To say we played for the love of the game is to perpetuate a myth. I liked baseball and it was certainly an enjoyable way to make a living, but the money is the only reason I played.” — Elden Auker, MLB pitcher 1933-42, from his “Sleeper cars and flannel uniforms”
Thank you, msb.
It’s also not true that players used to play their whole careers with one team more in the past than they do now. Even if it were, so what? What does that mean if the player has no choice in the matter? Does anyone seriously want to argue that it was better for players to have no say in where they played?
And em, it’s awful funny that you use the phrase “revisionist history” in a post where you say “we” all “knew” A-Rod was leaving. I don’t doubt that you believe that’s the way it was.
I think it’s clear that all the mind-reading from the A-Rod haters is necessary because otherwise they simply don’t have a good argument. We hate him cause he lied! We hate him cause it’s all about the money! We hate him cause he was never gonna stay anyway!
You hate him because he wasn’t pathetically grateful to be playing baseball wherever he got placed, and ought to have done so for the rest of hi life. That’s what you’d have done, sure.
124
Great! Let’s go back to the days when athletes had no rights whatsoever and were essentially indentured servants. I mean why should these “human beings” have “freedom” to “choose” things like who they work for, anyways? After all, the only meaning in their lives is to serve us, the rabid consumers.
This isn’t the Roman Empire, and players aren’t expendable commodities meant to be used up and then thrown away (no matter how much the NFL might treat them as such).
No other industry allows employers to trade their workers to other employees in other cities without their consent, or seek better employment elsewhere.
Free agency is the first time in a baseball player’s life he gets to make his own choice about where he goes, and no player can be blamed for signing anywhere they want, for whatever reasons they choose.
Anyone who says otherwise needs to get over themselves.
Yeah, meant to make it clear that the Roman Empire thing was a reference to gladatorial combat, but forgot to put it in there. Guess it looks kind of random without it. Whatever, the point still stands.
Lots of problems here…it’s late. “or seek better employment elsewhere” = “or forbids them to seek better employment elsewhere.”
Having returned from the game:
The M’s are really mediocre. But this is the worst Yankees team I’ve seen since the early 90s. Three all-stars and six guys underachieving. Steinbrenner has every reason to panic.
Rasner would be the M’s #2 starter. He doesn’t have much of anything, but he knows how to use it.
Johjima and Ichiro are carrying this team right now.
Washburn is pitching better this year, at least when you watch him in person. He’s working faster, for one thing.
The infield defense needs work. Betancourt seems like he’s either distracted or hotdogging.
I’ll put a post up on this tomorrow, but just wanted to mention it now – I didn’t see the game, but looking at the box score, this is the best game Jarrod Washburn has thrown as a Mariner. More groundballs than flyballs, 6 strikeouts of a good offense in 8 innings, and no walks? That’s a great performance, and if he keeps pitching like this, then we have something.
#146, boxscore says that Washburn had 1 walk. Must have been early in the game because I don’t remember it. And while I have your attention, how soon will we see a write up on Ryan Rowland Smith? Pretty soon I’d imagine, but a lot of people have been asking for scouting reports, I just figured I’d bring it up.
Today was the first M’s game that I was fired up to watch since Felix’s opening day masterpeice. The Mariners have finally bumped Weaver out of the rotation, and with Mateo also being gone, suddenly Mike Hargrove’s incompetence seems a lot less costly and frankly, the Mariners seem almost exciting. The fact that this team is 1 game over .500 after a prolonged period with Weaver in and Hernandez out shows that the Mariners have a real chance in this division this year.
If the Mariners can somehow defy logic by continuing to score a good number of runs despite really sucking at OBP, and put out two sub 3.00 ERA starters every 5 days, while continuing to have a great bullpen and great defense, this team should be playing meaningful games in September. It seems like prehistoric history since the last time that happened.
I’ll put a post up on this tomorrow, but just wanted to mention it now – I didn’t see the game, but looking at the box score, this is the best game Jarrod Washburn has thrown as a Mariner. More groundballs than flyballs, 6 strikeouts of a good offense in 8 innings, and no walks? That’s a great performance, and if he keeps pitching like this, then we have something
Watching on TV, Washburn looked really good. He was frustrating Yankee hitters with his pitches. This wasn’t a “he got lucky” shutout. Washburn earned his dough tonight.
suddenly Mike Hargrove’s incompetence seems a lot less costly
Y’know, since he grew the goatee, Hargrove seems to be making fewer bad decisions.
Also I thought it was cool to see a mostly full stadium today. Kind of sad that you need the Yankees-haters, all the Yankees fans, and a local white kid(tm) american idol semi-finalist to get a full house, but I’ll take it. Safeco was a decently jumpin’ place tonight and its about 10 times more fun when the place is loud like that. I enjoyed the game so much, I actually stopped hating Jarrod Washburn (Washburn actually DID look pretty good tonight btw, very aggressive and had good location) for 4 hours. It feels pretty good.
#149
Must have something to do with the brand new “Indian Burial Ground Pet Shop.”
#150: It was loud and exciting, but it didn’t even come close to those games in the mid-’90’s-early ’00’s games we had against them. Heck, those were not only games. Those were events.
And my god, I will never ever forget going to those playoff games in ‘95 (even though I was in the nosebleeds).
Back then we didn’t need scoreboard and musical cues and American Idol finalists to get us fired up, we did that on our own and then some. I just hope once Bavasi gets fired we can get back to that point. I honestly think we can considering we have a pretty good nucleus as it is, but we are going to need to do much better in free agency and trades to finish assembling this team the way it should be assembeled.
Washburn is, and always has been, a solid, professional big league pitcher. We are damn lucky to have him.
not sure how a guy who left 8 guys on base can deserve an 8 inning shut out.
i only managed to catch the last three innings but like the rest of the year i noticed that jarrod seems to be pitching on the corners much more and when he misses its barely outside. i think the 8th inning is the perfect example of this.
Re: #153
I’m confused how any team can be “lucky” to have a player who got paid (and reportedly far overpaid compared to any other team) $9 million a year to pitch.
But again, like with the A-Rod discussion earlier, I don’t blame the man for signing the contract. I can however blame the team that decided it would be a good value.
Well, I just got finished reading 149 posts to this thread, about 50 of which were about the game and 100 were about WHETHER OR NOT MARINER FANS SHOULD STILL BE BOOING A-ROD.
This is a fruitless discussion, because people just boo if they don’t like something. They don’t have to explain it. They don’t have to have a good reason. Booing is just something fans do if they want to. It’s a way of voicing an opinion, and even if you disagree with that opinion, what’s the point of trying to convince them not to boo? Yer not going to change their minds with your hard-hitting reasoning. A lot of Ms fans just don’t like A-Rod. There’s a million reasons why they might not like him, and I think they have every right to their opinion. This is a blog, people, you don’t have to base everything 100 percent on logic or statistics. Am I right, or am I right?
Oh, and DMZ, you were totally wrong about the umpire thing last night. Life is not perfect, and neither is baseball. That’s why we love it.
#155
Every player out there is overpaid. In a perfect world teachers would make more than athletes.
In the real world we are damn lucky to have Jarrod Washburn. Now we need three more dependable starters.
Y’know, since he grew the goatee, Hargrove seems to be making fewer bad decisions.
Maybe there’s something to that. It worked for Spock, afterall. Perhaps he’s been replaced by a replicant/android/Evil Hargrove who happens to less resemble an acognitive lump?
And Washburn did look good, with that cutter slicing in on the hands of the RH batters. On some of those strikeouts he looked a little Mariano Rivera, actually. Oh, if only he could do that every game….
Oh, if only he could do that every game….
He has done that every game this year.
Its OK to root for players Bavasi signs.
156- You are exactly right. Booing is the voicing of your opinion about a player based on their attitude, effort, performance, or misc item that irriates you. You have a right to that opinion. Your opnion does not mean you are right. People that disagree with you are not right. For example, I will boo AROD until I do not see him play again. I will cheer Griffey when he comes to Seattle. So what, right?
#159 – Here’s Washburn’s LOB% for the past 3 full seasons and thus far in 2007, along with the respective ERAs. Tell me if you see a correlation:
2004 – 69.7% (4.64)
2005 – 81.8% (3.20)
2006 – 69.8% (4.67)
2007 – 76.7% (3.18 – prior to tonight’s start)
Would you agree that there appears to be a direct correlation between his ERA and the LOB% for the years shown?
That being stated, would you also deem it reasonable to say that he has little control over that LOB%? Based on how sporadic the numbers are, I would say that he has little-to-no control over this metric and the accompanying correlation.
And this doesn’t even begin to discuss his completely non-sustainable 10.6% LD% this year (going into tonight’s start). Even Johan Santana’s LD%’s from the last 3 full years are nowhere near that low (they range around 16-19%) and I think we can all agree than Santana >>>> Washburn.
You state that we’re lucky to have Washburn. Thus far in 2007, I’d say Washburn has been lucky, period.
Oh, and also, I worked out the M’s signs thanks to DMZ’s book. Rather, I figured out the steal sign and the “ignore everything I just told you” sign.
Helps when they’re only telling Ichiro to steal.
Yup. Washburn’s success is a pure luck. When he faces a real team….
Seems like Wash is throwing more breaking balls lately and having good success.
Remember when he used to throw 80% fastballs? Yeah…
This team is hard to figure out. One night they pitch great and hit and another night, Jeff Weaver pitches.
BTW , can we get a nickname for Putz????
how about MR AUTOMATIC?
M’s win, and that is good for all involved. Although this may be off topic and possibly euphoria induced: I truly appreciate what you boys at USSM are doing to update the site. I know that it is not an easy process, but hopefully an M’s win can help facilitate an easier transition period.
Dave, DMZ and all the others: you have done a tremendous job at maintaining this site.
Re: #163
I’m sure Dave will go over Washburn in a whole lot more detail later Saturday. But no one in here is stupid enough to say that Washburn sucks and he’s only been lucky. But it’s possible to be good and lucky as much as it’s possible to just be only good.
Washburn’s been good, his strikeout numbers compared to his walks and the number of groundballs he’s induced are a good sign of that. But he’s also been lucky with his line drive rate and his left on base percentage. The way’s he pitching right now he doesn’t have to be lucky to look good, but the combination is certainly impressing.
Washburn is well on his way to equaling or bettering his 2005 performance.
I know the measurements and statistical data say otherwise, but who’s to say 2007 won’t be another exception?
I’m rooting for an exception.
BTW, you put Johjima in the 3rd spot in the lineup and the Mariners probably have a couple more runs today. It wouldn’t have changed the outcome, just saying Grover’s incompetence continues to show by not batting Johjima higher in the lineup on a more regular basis.
Is Ibanez any better of a hitter than Johjima?
165
Isn’t Putz’s nickname “The Wolverine”, because he went to Michigan?
Re 146,
This was a pretty good game from Washburn. Heck, it’s a good game from anybody. He did get some help one a couple of really good defensive plays and one bad ump call in our favor. But overall, it was a good good piece of work.
I would say J-Wash’s best pitching performance for us was probably his first game last year against the Angels when he went 7 IP gave up 2 runs but struck out 7. He had an 8-5 GB:FB ratio that game and walked nobody. He did give up a longball tho.
When we attempt to judge Jarrod Washburn by his left on base %, we need to keep in mind that the last 4 years he’s been hitting extremes, both good and bad (not many pitchers would be world beaters with a 69% LOB%), in that category. Its not as if his 69% LOB% is the “true” Jarrod Washburn. 69% is pretty damned unlucky.
This year we’re getting a “lucky” season out of Jarrod Washburn. It doesn’t mean that Washburn is suddenly a true #2 starter, but it doesn’t mean we should avoid enjoying his success either.
I pretty much already know what Dave is going to say about Washburn. I’ve been around here enough to look at the results, the stats, and see how well it projects for the rest of the season. I know what to look for, and I know trends and league averages for things.
I’m not going to steal Dave’s thunder by saying anything more except that… these last couple of games by Washburn have been some of his best stuff in years. He looked a lot more like 2002 Washburn tonight, and it was fun to see.
One last thing: Too bad no “honest” Yanks fans have stopped in here, but they’d tell you part of the outcome of Washburn’s night was the lineup he was facing.
Yeah, I know I said in the subsequent blog entry by Dave that I was surprised that Washburn wasn’t destroyed every time he faced the heart of the Yanks’ order, but…
…those guys are definitely not hitting on all cylinders, and quite a few of them haven’t been for at least a couple of weeks.
Cano hasn’t all season so far. He’s ‘WAY less selective that he was last season/pitchers have adjusted. ARod isn’t getting fastballs on the outside of the plate as much as he was in April. Abreu…not even Yanks fans know what’s happened to Abreu, but pitchers have figured out that he’s “patient” and pitch accordingly.
The “excuse” for their poor showing offensively offered at the Yanks’ MLB.com site is this:
I don’t know how many times I’ve read that excuse, but obviously it hasn’t dawned on the writer that the MARINERS also had that cross-country flight, and they too were beat soundly in Detroit by their own pitcher as well as the Tigers.