Roster moves a coming
Dave · May 11, 2007 at 11:05 am · Filed Under Mariners
There’s at least one roster move coming today. I’m pretty sure you can all guess who is going away.
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Dear Mr. Weaver,
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, you overpaid hack!
Sincerely,
fan with paper bag over his head.
I’m graduating college today, but this might be the best news of all.
Who is more to blame? Weaver for sucking? Or the GM for thinking he wouldn’t?
Bloomquist is getting DFA’d?!?! (I guess I shouldn’t joke like that)
I dont think Bavasi was wrong letting Weaver pitch for a month, then canning him when he didn’t perform, it was worth a shot. I’m more concerned about HoRam at this point anyway, he sucks, and they’re gonna hold onto him for a while. Oh well. You live and you learn, nor maybe not.
I’m hoping all of this Mateo crap overrides upper managements view of him. He’s needed to be gone for quite some time. Even casual fans know he sucks now, and add all the media attention/bad plubicity, I can’t see him being around much longer.
is it official yet?
I’m pretty sure you can all guess who is going away.
Well, there are actually two pretty good candidates.
An Ichiro trade??
Not that anyone actually cares, but I still have no problem with the Weaver deal. It was a low-risk move, and team hasn’t been destroyed because of it.
Now’s the time to cut our losses and just move forward.
I wonder if Weaver is going to be DFA’d or sent down…
Never mind. He’s already said he doesn’t want to go down to Tacoma.
It’s totally gonna be Raul. Face of the franchise my ass!
You mean they are trading Felix for a bag of magic beans?
My guess is Sean Green.
Lets trade Weaver and Mateo for a chaise lounge and sixer of PBR.
Weaver to the pen, Mateo to the clink, and bring back Bucky.
15: I don’t think you could get a chaise lounge and a sixer of PBR for them, even if you offered to pay all of their contracts.
Mateo or Weaver or BOTH.
Trading Ichiro for Griffey?
Please God, let it be Grover (and he can take Weaver, Ramirez and Mateo with him)……..
Oh yeah, and Rizzs….
Any idea of when the M’s offically make the move? Those who commented that there are 2 likely candidates (Weaver and Mateo)and 2 dark horses (HoRam and Green) are right. One move is 3 moves too few. Heck, you could even make an argument that White doesn’t belong in the big leagues.
Why do I get the feeling that the M’s are only going to do half of what is necessary today?
#22
Hey that’s better than their usual track record right?
May I toss in a dark-horse candidate: Felix comming of the DL. Or is that too early just yet?
Hargrove regarding who to keep in the rotation:
“You always say you want to have tough decisions, and this is one of those,” he said. “We’ll do our best to make the right decision.”
Is he aware that most people would say that while referring to a situation where they have too many good arms and need to cut one?
Mateo’s 10 day suspension (or is it 10 games?) isn’t up until sometime next week, so I doubt it’s him. Besides even when he comes off the suspension, he’s not on the 25 man roster since he got sent down. So it’s gotta be Weaver. Certainly Weaver before HoRam.
Has a team ever punted a contract this big this early in a season? Way to flush $8 million bucks down the toilet.
Hasn’t Mateo already been sent to Tacoma and suspended? And wouldn’t that preclude a major league roster move involving him?
I don’t get why management would boot Weaver so soon. If they have so little confidence in him that they’re willing to jettison him and eat the contract after less than 20% of the regular season, why’d they sign him to an $8 million deal in the first place? Especially after how he started last season.
If I like a guy enough to give him that much cash, I’d hope I though he was talented enough to be worth demoting to the bullpen in the hopes he can work out his problems there. The fact that Seattle management does not (assuming he’s the one who goes) is a pretty strong indictment of their foolishness.
#23
I guess they do deserve credit for making the move in May as opposed to waiting until June to get the axe.
I still get frustrated when I see that the job is only partially done.
The Twins started making wholesale changes to there roster around this time last year and they ended up running down two teams with huge leads on them for a playoff spot. Maybe the M’s can find the pieces they need to win the West this year.
Hooray! Now we’ll only have ONE total liability in the rotation!
(Yes, I am considering those not named HoRam ‘partial liabilities.’ Humor me, plz.)
Any one know when the move will be announced officially by the team?
I don’t get why management would boot Weaver so soon. If they have so little confidence in him that they’re willing to jettison him and eat the contract after less than 20% of the regular season, why’d they sign him to an $8 million deal in the first place? Especially after how he started last season.
If I like a guy enough to give him that much cash, I’d hope I though he was talented enough to be worth demoting to the bullpen in the hopes he can work out his problems there. The fact that Seattle management does not (assuming he’s the one who goes) is a pretty strong indictment of their foolishness.
I dunno. Do you want to win and save your job, or do you want to be financially responsible?
If you want to win, I think you need to be more decisive and flexible than the team has been heretofor. If Weaver won’t go to Tacoma or go to relief, then get him out of here.
Given that it’s the Mariners…Baek to Tacoma for “more seasoning”, Felix to Tacoma for a 2 month rehab assignment, Broussard to the Reds for an “A” level pitching prospect, contract extensions for Ho and Batista.
“I’m pretty sure you can all guess who is going away”? Dude. Why don’t you just tell us. If you know, spill the beans. If you don’t, let’s talk about something else. With all due respect, implying knowledge about roster moves/managerial moves, teasing us into speculation… It’s just bad.
If they could flat out tell us, they would. If they aren’t, that means they are not supposed to. The Mariners have worked hard recently to shut down leaks in the organization so it’s no real surprise.
Look, we’ve asked the question of USSMers before on whether or not we should say things like this, or shut up until there’s a news source to cite, and the response is overwhelmingly “go on and hint/rumor monger/whatever”.
If you don’t like it, fine. Don’t read it. But we’ve given this a lot of consideration and sentiment generally was strongly the opposite of your view.
34: Why are you telling people how to post on their weblog?
Sorry, feel free to delete my redundant comment.
Ridiculous…MSNBC just did a weather report and for ‘Best Baseball Weather’ they said Minneapolis. Umm, how retarded..they play in a dome!
And back to the thread, would they release Weaver without Felix back and actually pitching in the rotation?
Go on hinting/rumor-mongering? Yes please. Hinting is good, rumor-mongering is better, wild speculation’s awesome!
Hopefully they could package some kind of Weaver/Reed deal and get a prospect out of somebody.
We’re gonna sign Al Martin again!! YES! (he has a better left hook than Mateo…from what I hear)
It’s a blog, not the New York Times. Monger away.
Major League Baseball Transactions, 5/11/07. Seattle Mariners: Designated RHP Jeff Weaver for assignment. Traded OF Ichiro Suzuki for magic beans.
I’m happy if Weaver is gone. But to have a guy so close to being dropped like a bad habit actually start at least 2 more winnable games after it was obvious is unforgivable.
Magic Beans on 60 day DL with arm soreness. Great trade Bavasi, we all knew Beans was injury prone!
I don’t understand why everyone is joking about these magic beans that the Mariners might be able to acquire. It’s common knowledge that teams with magic beans win 20% more games than teams without magic beans, and right now I am not seeing any magic beans in the organization.
[b]If you want to win, I think you need to be more decisive and flexible than the team has been heretofor. If Weaver won’t go to Tacoma or go to relief, then get him out of here.[/b]
I don’t think he has the right to refuse to go to the bullpen.
I’m not saying to keep him in the rotation by any means. I’m just wondering why Seattle would sign someone for that kind of money (seeing the poor start he got off to last year), watch him get off to an admittedly terrible start this season, and figure there’s no chance he’ll get better so it’s better to release him in early May.
If I sign a guy for $8 million, even if it’s a one-year deal, presumably I think he has enough talent left that it’s worth letting him try and work out his issues in mop-up duty rather than release him and perhaps see him latch on somewhere else. If Seattle doesn’t think he’s worth even that role, then the signing looks even worse than ever.
I think, at some point, if you’re thinking about the money, and how it’s being wasted, you’re thinking about the wrong thing. The ego gets tied to justifying the decision in the past, when the decision should focussed on the present, and who are the best personnel to do that now. There’s enough data to imply that Weaver isn’t going to be a good fit for the bullpen.
You made a bad decision to sign him. Given his performance, it’s not likely to improve much. Given that, I think it’s healthier to shrug your shoulders, accept your losses and not tie up your organization’s time and energy on this person, $8 million or no.
“I’m just wondering why Seattle would sign someone for that kind of money (seeing the poor start he got off to last year), watch him get off to an admittedly terrible start this season, and figure there’s no chance he’ll get better so it’s better to release him in early May.”
Simply put, they’ll need a roster spot to bring Felix off the DL. Who do you send to Tacoma instead? O’Flaherty or Sherrill, so you only have one lefty? Morrow? Green? Baek, who HASN’T totally sucked as a starter?
It’s common knowledge that teams with magic beans win 20% more games than teams without magic beans
I’m not sure if you have your math right there. If magic beans is a pitcher (I take it he is, based on bhsmarine’s sardonic comment about arm soreness) who is guaranteed to win the game every time he starts, then to win 20% more games overall, using a 5-man rotation, those would have to be games you’re guaranteed to lose without the magic beans. In reality, it would probably be more like 13-15% more games than teams with replacement-level beans.
#48.
I think Weaver has done all he can to prove that he doesn’t have the talent the Mariners hoped he could retain from his World Series appearances. He hasn’t shown the ability to pitching aside from maybe 5 innings in NY, and that was probably a fluke.
He’s done. At least with this club. I can totally see him hooking back up with St. Louis and laying down good starts. Especially after Carpenter went down, I would be surprised if the Cards don’t take a small flier on him after he’s ousted from Seattle.
Well, nothing that happens here involves only one move, because the other move is going to be taking Felix Hernandez off the 15 day DL. He’s ready to go and this puts him on about the right schedule to pitch Weaver’s next rotation spot.
But they seem to be deliberating on whether to just chuck Weaver, so perhaps it’s more like this:
Sean Green optioned to AAA Tacoma
Jeff Weaver to the bullpen
Felix Hernandez off 15 day DL
Or just…
Jeff Weaver DFA
Felix Hernandez off 15 day DL
Of course, we could have a couple of ideas here:
Julio Mateo DFA to make room on 40 man roster
Jeff Weaver DFA
Felix Hernandez off 15 day DL
Someone added to the 40 man roster (Byron Embry?)
Or perhaps none of the above. We’ll see.
If Weaver is let go, won’t the Mariners have basically paid “Roger Clemens money” for his 5-6 weeks of work? If so, the real move ought to be to relieve Mr. Bavasi of his duties. Combined with the Ramirez/Soriano and Snelling-Fruto/Vidro trades, is there a GM in baseball who deserves to be unemployed more than ours?
Oh, never mind, my math is messed up too. It would be interesting to find out how much the magic beans would want in salary, though.
Re 54:
It wont happen. GMs just don’t get removed during the season. The chaos that would be caused by that would essentially destroy your season. Hargrove goes first, no matter what happens to Bavasi.
And is there a worse GM in baseball? Yes. Yes there is.
Who is worse than Bavasi?
And, what WILL it take to get rid of Hargrove?
56…I didn’t say he was the worst…just the one who most deserved to be unemployed. I actually have been a Bavasi supporter in the past, because I thought he was improving our minor league system after years of neglect. But his trading skills are less than desirable, to say the least.
I also agree that removing Bavasi now would be a mistake, with the draft upcoming.
Whether the Weaver issue is resolved by him either being banned to the bullpen or banned altogether, the microscope will next be trained on Horacio, who has looked just as bad.
Maybe the M’s could also move Ramirez to the bullpen and try a rotation of Felix, Washburn, Batista, Baek, and Morrow for awhile. Now that would be fun to watch.
Morrow isn’t expendable – he cannot start.
“what WILL it take to get rid of Hargrove?”
I suggest it’s not coincidence that Ron Hassey, one of Hargrove’s friends, isn’t the bench coach any more, and John McLaren, a link to the Piniella era, is.
Basically, if the team tanks itself out of contention, you’ll see a hook used on Hargrove and McLaren installed as the interim manager, followed by Bavasi being gone at the end of the year. After that, the personnel decisions depend on who gets hired as GM…
em, his name starts with “P” and ends with “-at Gillick.”
I’m aware that Gillick has his issues – but I’d hazard a guess that the majority opinion is Bavasi sucks more
Or Dave’s post is simply a stress test for the new site.
Hey, didn’t Bloomquist mention something about wanting a chance to pitch? I mean, we sure would miss that .105 BA and an OBP worse than Sexson’s batting average….
Willie Bloomquist is the answer to ALL the Mariners’ problems.
Gillick is all of Bill Bavasi’s problems with evaluating major league talent without Bavasi’s commitment to improving the farm system and building from within.
52: I’ve been thinking that for a while now. I’d hope that Bavasi at least tries to work out a deal with St. Louis. He doesn’t have to get much back. If he can get another team to pick up even a part of Weaver’s contract, it’s a bonus.
Are we going to get the quick tags back? Another issue with this new layout: refresh doesn’t send you to the bottom of the list like before.
Refresh sends me down to the bottom. I like the new layout, good job fellas.
I couldn’t agree with that. They share a strong, self defeating bias for aging, declining players, but Gillick’s acquisitions for the M’s included:
Boone, Sasaki, Rhodes, Nelson, Olerud and Ichiro. That’s a history of addressing a teams needs more effectively than Bavasi.
They share a strong, self defeating bias for aging, declining players
Huh. Isn’t that a hallmark of incompetent management?
That’s OK for fans, but GMs also have to know that players inevitably will decline, and plan accordingly. The Mariner administration just doesn’t seem to want to know that…
Seems dumb to make this move now if Felix won’t even pitch until next week.
Why not DFA Weaver, call up Campillo, and then when Felix is ready either send down Campillo or Morrow? And then if Felix isn’t ready to go next start, call up Huber or Feierabend and send Campillo down?
We’re staring at microcosms of Bavasi’s tenure and using those as the end all be all of our idea that he’s the worst GM in baseball. If we did that, we can find plenty of boneheads out there.
Do I think Bavasi is the best? No. Do I think he’s the worst? No. Do I think he deserves to be our GM anymore? No.
But we also have to look this franchise over and point out that the flaws in the system is the system itself, not one man. Sure, Bavasi is bad, but the entire Mariners Front Office is the proverbial Donkey Dong on the Amsterdam Website of Farm Animal Promiscuity.
“Huh. Isn’t that a hallmark of incompetent management?”
Gillick also has a record of actually getting teams into the playoffs, and then deftly getting out of the way of the trainwreck.
Bavasi, well, doesn’t.
“Are we going to get the quick tags back? Another issue with this new layout: refresh doesn’t send you to the bottom of the list like before.”
Gee, is on the to-do list on the upper-right? Because that seems like a handy thing to check.
I’m really starting to lose my patience with this stuff.
I think this might be possible… I’d love to see the comments by the USSM authors shaded in another color. I find myself constantly ctrl-f’ing for DMZ and Dave and having a color scheme would be a nice little perk.
Great point #76. I’d have to second that motion.
Everyone who’s making feature requests/complaints:
It sounds like the feature you’re most likely to get as a result of your posts is DMZ shutting down comments for a day or three so he doesn’t have people joggling his elbow before the site changes are finished.
Why don’t we wait for DMZ and USSM labs to ASK “Hey, could I get some feedback on ___?” once the dust is settled down and THEN offer it, OK?
I think the to-do list isn’t obvious enough. Could you make it blink or something?
Kidding! Kidding!
Here are some possible moves:
1. Weaver DFA’d, Baek in the rotation.
2. Weaver to the pen, White sent down, Baek in the rotation.
3. Weaver to the pen, Morrow sent down to start in Tacoma, Baek in the rotation.
4. Weaver DFA’d, Baek in the rotation, Morrow down to Tacoma to learn how to start, someone/anyone else called up to take Morrow’s spot in the pen.
My favorite of these is 4.
My guess is that we get door number 2, with Weaver in long relief. That means in games when we are already down 4 or 5 runs, Weaver can come in to tack on another 5 or 6. Meanwhile, Morrow can continue not developing any skills that might actually be useful for the team in 2008.
Worst current MLB GMs:
1. Ned Colletti
2. Dave Littlefield
3. Wayne Krivsky
4. Bill Stoneman
5. Bill Bavasi
6. Pat Gillick
7. Jim Hendry
8. Tim Purpura
9. Dan O’Dowd
10a. Jon Daniels
10b. Mike Flanigan
10.
Why isn’t Jim Bowden on that list?
Re 80:
White can’t be sent down, or he goes back to Atlanta. It’ll be Green.
Sean White… Sean Green… holy cow… I just noticed we need a Sean Burnt Umber to balance out this color scheme.
Ryan Rowland-Smith was on an airplane to Seattle this morning with my boss. He was talking about joining the big club this weekend on his cell phone, apparently.
On the airplane? Because you’re not supposed to do that.
82: sorry. Bowden should be 10c. actually, in hindsight, he should be moved “up” to 7. I always thought he got “lucky” in some trades that made him look good w/ the Reds and now w/ the nats– I still think the Soriano trade involving wilkerson is a better one for the rangers….
I don’t see how Bill Stoneman is worse then Bill Bavasi. They have young talent and did win a World Series on his watch. He hasn’t pulled a big trade to help out Vlad like he should, but the 4th worst in baseball? I don’t follow the Angels much so I might be off base here, maybe you could explain it more.
So send him to High Desert. We need to fill that rotation somehow.
That would be entertaining. Our run-differential would look terrible, but it wouldn’t impact our W-L record much.
The Matthews signing has to count for something– I mean that move alone is really historic. Fascinations with Shea Hillenbrand and Garret Anderson are perplexing too.
ESPN reported hours ago that:
Weaver will be sent to the bullpen as a long reliever after another bad outing Thursday against Detroit, reports the Seattle Times.
So I don’t know why you’re still guessing as to what happens to Weaver.
#81 – no Brian Sabean on that list?
90- Agreed, he did win the game with a HR the other night against the Indians. Weaver hasn’t gotten close to winning anything. He is over paid but you can still put him on the field. Garret Anderson is getting the Raul Ibanez treatment. He didn’t make any HoRam like trades that I can remember. Top 10 sure, not worse then Bavasi.
Heh, according to KJR, Weaver was put on the DL??! Must be the “wink wink” DL to give them time to try to fix whatever is broken….
Re 87:
Gary Matthews Jr’s contract
Overpaying for Justin Speier when he had perfectly viable other options for relief pitching
Esteban Yan.
Letting his young talent rot while people like Garret Anderson, Shea Hillenbrand, Chone Figgins, and Orlando Cabrera take a bulk of the playing time.
I will say this: his 2003-2004 offseason was pretty damned good. Bartolo Colon, Kelvim Escobar, and Vladamir Guerrero were all good pickups. I don’t think anybody thought Escobar would be as good as he has been for Anaheim, but it was still not a bad idea.
Colon, on the other hand, had one HELL of a backloaded contract, and is costing the team 14 million this year. 14 million for a bum shoulder. This is why you move people before they become albatrosses.
Generally speaking, Stoneman hasn’t been horribly bad. When he actually did something in 2003-2004, he was backed by the new owner to make big free agent signings and he did. But before that, and since then, he’s been WORSE then Pat Gillick at trying to find ways to fill the team’s needs. He has done, literally, NOTHING to improve the offensive situation of the Angels and, aside from Vladamir Guerrero, hasn’t done anything to improve the situation since he took over in 2000.
The 2002 club that won the world series was mostly borne on the backs of talent that was already there.
So, if Weaver’s not leaving (from reports that he’s only going to the bullpen), then who else is getting released or sent down to make room for Felix?
That is about what I thought, with the young guys they have brought up there is no way he is worse then the contracts of Sexson, Beltre, Washburn, Weaver, Ibanez extension if he keeps on his current decline, and the Soriano/Vidro trades. All those seem to be much worse then what he has.
Anyone got an idea when the M’s will officially announce anything?
Seriously, I’m curious what injury they’re going to claim he has. Can you be put on the DL for brain flatulence?
“Tendinitis in the right shoulder” is what I heard on the radio.
#85: You can talk on your cell phone on a plane, you just can’t do it during take off or landing.
Perhaps he got put on the DL for a broken career. If he got put on the DL. And was he just saying that he was not injured a week ago? Or did he finally end up hurting his pride. That ought to be worth a 60-day DL spot.
92: I can’t get a good read on Sabean. Yeah the Liriano/Nathan/Bonzer deal looks really bad now, but back then I thought it only looked mildly bad– Liriano had injury concerns, and Nathan and Bonzer certainly weren’t top prospects…. maybe C+/B- prospects. (Here’s what BP said about the trade a few years back. teehee.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2465 )
I get a sense that Sabean knows what he’s got– the best player in baseball– for a limited time, and thus to a certain extent he gets overlooked by critics who value younger players b/c he’s not really ever looking to rebuild. We’ll see what happens after Bonds is retired.
“Jeff is a guy that won’t complain about anything and just takes the baseball,” said Bavasi. “It became obvious to us when he needed to reach back for that little something extra, his arm strength just wasn’t there. Once we talked to him, it became obvious that with some time off and a strength program, he will have an opportunity to return to the type of pitcher we know he can be.”
Ahh, the hope that Weaver returns to being a bad pitcher.
You can talk on your cell phone on a plane, you just can’t do it during take off or landing.
That’s not true – thank god. You cannot use cellphones at any time once the doors are shut. It can theoretically disrupt navigation & communications equipment, tho this is very low probability.
It’s official now — Weaver on the DL
Since the story appears on the official Mariner’s team site that has no official connection to the team, I will take it with a grain of salt.
This could be a scam. This way the M’s might get some insurance money to cover Weaver’s contract (you can’t insure contracts longer than 3 seasons anymore, but Weaver has a 1 year deal so they probably do have insurance).
But it probably does mean Weaver will get to come back and throw more innings. Steve Trout’s record (worst ERA minimum 50 IP) might not be safe.
Weaver to the DL sounds like a face-saving device for one and all.
What is the scouting report on this Ryan Rowland-Smith kid?
I can’t find anything about the pitches that he throws…
Who knew?
“Jeff is a guy that won’t complain about anything and just takes the baseball,” said Bavasi. “It became obvious to us when he needed to reach back for that little something extra, his arm strength just wasn’t there. Once we talked to him, it became obvious that with some time off and a strength program, he will have an opportunity to return to the type of pitcher we know he can be.”
So….Weaver thought no one would notice he was out there throwing batting practice? He’d just push through ‘the pain’ and would eventually return to the pitcher we all know what he can be.
I know what sort of pitcher I think he can be, but I’m intrigued with the FO’s vision.
I know what sort of pitcher I think he can be, but I’m intrigued with the FO’s vision.
I certainly hope you’re not using their PR fluff to examine their vision…