20 Percent Grades – The Pitching

Dave · May 14, 2007 at 1:02 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Continuing on with the 20 percent grades.

Felix Hernandez, #1 Starter – Grade: Incomplete

Felix was the best pitcher in baseball through his first two starts, throwing up back to back dominating performances and announcing to the world that the King was taking his throne. Then, the elbow started to hurt, the fanbase went into a collective panic, and we had to go a month without the best player on the team. Even with the injury, he still single handedly won the Mariners two games, which is more than most of his peers can say.

Jarrod Washburn, #2 Starter – Grade: A

Whether it’s through non-repeatable skills and unskilled opponents or not, Washburn tossed up 48 innings with a 2.64 ERA. Like other early season surprises John Maine and Braden Looper, he’s clearly not this good, but in terms of a retroactive grade, that doesn’t matter. The results have been all-star quality, and the bump the team has gotten from his performances are the main reason this team hasn’t sunk without Felix.

Miguel Batista, #3 Starter – Grade: F

Batista is the poster child for the inconsistency of guys who pitch-to-contact. He’s given up three runs or less in four of his seven starts, but gave up 8, 6, and 7 runs in his other three starts. His underlying skilset isn’t any different than it has been in previous years, so the large fluctuation in his results are mostly due to effects of his opponents, but there’s no way a guy with an ERA of 6.99 while pitching half his games in Safeco gets anything better than an F at this point in the year.

Horacio Ramirez, #4 Starter – Grade: F

He’s been a disaster. He’s struck out zero or one guy in four of his six starts, and like Batista, his success is basically tied to how well the other team does at getting the balls in play to fall in. Consistency is impossible with this kind of pitcher. Much is made about Ramirez’s Home/Road splits, but no one mentions the competition he’s faced in those appearanecs. He got whacked around by the Angels, Red Sox, and Tigers on the road, and shut down the Rangers, Royals, and Yankees at home. The huge splits between Safeco and non-Safeco games will shrink dramatically as the year goes on.

Jeff Weaver, #5 Starter – Grade: F

Do we really need to write anything here. He’s had the worst six start run of any starting pitcher in Mariner history. Opposing batters are hitting .446 against him. His two-seam fastball is not a major league pitch, but he continues to throw it over the plate hoping to reinvent himself as a groundball pitcher. The M’s finally made up an injury to get him off the roster, and fans everywhere hope they never see him again.

J.J. Putz, Closer – Grade: A

Despite shelving his splitter, he’s continued to be a dominant relief ace, getting outs with little more than a fastball that he can blow by people. The injury scare from spring training is all but forgotten as J.J. continues to assert himself as one of the games premier relief aces.

Brandon Morrow, Setup – Grade: B

Morrow’s had some memorable strikeouts in big situations, including the huge strikeout of Alex Rodriguez yesterday. Remarkably, he’s getting people out with one pitch that he has marginal command of. Hitters come to the plate knowing that they’re going to get a steady diet of fastballs, yet they’ve been unable to hit them in spite of that. He’s walked 12 guys in 14 innings, so there’s still cause for concern, but he’s shown the obvious value of having a strikeout reliever to pitch in the 8th inning.

George Sherrill, Setup – Grade: A

The unheralded member of the bullpen. He doesn’t throw as hard as Putz or Morrow, but he’s ridiculously tough on left-handed hitters and has improved his command to the point that he’s useful against RHP as well. As the year goes on, the M’s would do well to hand him more high leverage situations, because he’s earned the right to be trusted in critical games.

Chris Reitsma, Middle Relief – Grade: B

Reitsma’s change-up has been an effective outpitch for him, and his command has been good enough to serve as a useful reliever, even if he doesn’t have top-notch velocity. He’s given up a pair of critical homers and been usurped by Morrow as the primary setup man, but there’s nothing wrong with having Reitsma as your 4th best reliever.

Eric O’Flaherty, Middle Relief – Grade: B

O’Flaherty’s work on Saturday in shutting down the Yankees was a big step forward towards getting him out of the LOOGY pigeonhole. He’s got enough pitches to be a quality reliever against both sides, and he’s done good work for the team in a variety of roles. There’s still some more growth potential here as well.

Mateo, Green, White, and Woods, Mopup – Grade: D

The quartet of no-outpitch replacement level gusy have been mediocre to downright bad, but since they’ve been almost exclusively used in games that have already been decided, it hasn’t mattered much. The M’s could do better than these guys, but in the end, this is the least important role on any team in baseball.

Overall Pitching – Grade: D

Felix was great for two starts, Washburn’s performance has been the pleasant surprise of the year to date, and the bullpen has been good, but the that’s all undone by the #3, #4, and #5 starters performing at a rate below what you’d expect if you called up any random arm from Double-A. The team could use a couple more major league starting pitchers, and I’m still rooting for Brandon Morrow to work on his breaking ball, because he’s going to need a second pitch before the year ends.

Comments

76 Responses to “20 Percent Grades – The Pitching”

  1. metz123 on May 14th, 2007 1:18 pm

    The M’s could live with having 1 craptastic starting in the rotation. There’s no way we can be good with 3 #5 pitchers. We just don’t have the offensive firepower to try and outscore teams.

    Any idea why JJ has shelved the splitter? He, also, is going to need a 2nd pitch before the year ends.

  2. Tom on May 14th, 2007 1:23 pm

    I like how you give all 3 of Bavasi’s “rotation upgrades” F’s.

    I completely and totally agree with you though. With HoRam, Weaver, and The Author there in the roto, it’s no wonder the M’s get outscored a bunch in the first 2-3 innings of a ball game.

    And to think, this team is a .500 club with those guys in there. . .(sigh)

  3. Dave on May 14th, 2007 1:23 pm

    J.J. says it’s because hitters are sitting on it and they can’t catch up to his fastball. The results suggest he may be right.

    Other theories involve suspicions that his arm isn’t 100 percent healthy or that he’d simply lost the grip on it during the offseason. Considering he was throwing 98 with ease yesterday, I think we can write off any serious injury. And he’s shown a few splitters this year, so I’m not sure I buy the grip theory either.

    Basically, we don’t know, but if JJ says he’s just waiting for hitters to adjust back to his fastball before featuring the splitter again, I’m happy to take his word for it.

  4. Jerry Pezzino on May 14th, 2007 1:24 pm

    J.J. had a few more splitters last night. I think he’s slowly coming back to full form. Isn’t it amazing that even without his splitter, he’s still dominating? When he gets that pitch back full time, forget about it.

    If we have any serious hopes for the postseason, we can’t do it with Felix and Washburn at the helm alone. One of the final three in the rotation, at least one, needs to step up and start earning their keep. If not, something has to be done. Soon.

  5. AQ on May 14th, 2007 1:25 pm

    Not to pick nits, but I suspect you meant “throne” and not “thrown” in the first sentence about Felix.

  6. metz123 on May 14th, 2007 1:26 pm

    I’m happy with the results. Heck, If Rivera can keep the role for eternity with only a single pitch, who am I to disagree?

    JJ’s splitter is devastating to see up close in person. It doesn’t just dive, it slithers to the plate.

  7. robbbbbb on May 14th, 2007 1:27 pm

    Dave,

    What about Cha Seung Baek?

  8. Dave on May 14th, 2007 1:39 pm

    What about Cha Seung Baek?

    Grade: C

    He is what he is.

  9. AQ on May 14th, 2007 1:41 pm

    C is for Cha Seung, that’s good enough for meee!

    Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.

  10. robbbbbb on May 14th, 2007 1:43 pm

    Fair enough. Sounds about right to me. (And beats the hell out of the guys the M’s paid too damn much for.)

    So, with the offense at a C and the pitching at a D, how the heck did the M’s end up at 17-16, 1 1/2 back of the Angels?

  11. Dave Clapper on May 14th, 2007 1:46 pm

    Hmm. The offense is a C and the defense is a D, and yet we’re a game above .500 after what many thought would be the toughest stretch of the season. Granted that their RS-RA equates better to a sub .500 team, but either the offense or the defense is ranked a hair too low. A C- team should be below .500. The total (and you’re grading on results, right?) should average to a C (or a C+ if you’re feeling generous) at this point, no?

  12. Marooners on May 14th, 2007 1:48 pm

    Luck has to be factored into the equation. Which brings to mind the WFB out-by-a-mile stolen base in NY.

    That’s why we’re a game above .500.

  13. Dave on May 14th, 2007 1:48 pm

    The diminishing returns of terribleness. The horrible performances have been concentrated into a few games where the team got blown out, and they managed to be competitive the rest of the time.

    As bad as Weaver has been, he only had the ability to hurt the team 20% of the time.

  14. robbbbbb on May 14th, 2007 1:50 pm

    I just have this nagging feeling that the M’s, overall, are one hot streak away from getting into the playoffs this year.

    The flip side is that they’re one cold streak away from getting knocked out of the race altogether.

  15. em on May 14th, 2007 1:58 pm

    Hmm…I think an “F” is much to harsh for Ramirez. It is kinda like the kid that submits his math homework, but didn’t show all the work for full credit. Yeah, the kid probably used a calculator (defense) instead of doing it all longhand (missing bats), but he was still able to solve a couple of tough problems (Yankees) that others missed, and yeah, he didn’t get all the hard ones right (Detroit, LAA, BOS), but he did manage a correct answer on the easy one (KC) for an even split. Most 50% performances are an “F”, but if we grade on a curve (appropriate for baseball)then Ramirez is at least a D.

  16. Dave on May 14th, 2007 2:00 pm

    A 6.45 ERA, while pitching three games in Safeco, and facing some truly bad offenses?

    That’s an F.

  17. Benno on May 14th, 2007 2:11 pm

    Bah, I lost my post. Anyways, there is hope for this year. Better starts should be coming. I’m still hopeful that Batista will become more consistant (on the good side). That should give us 3 pitchers we can count on, and 2 that are wildcards (Baek & Ramirez). But I have the sinking feeling that Weaver is going to start a couple more games this year.

  18. em on May 14th, 2007 2:13 pm

    NY, Detroit, and Boston are not “Truly” bad offenses. KC is bad, but he beat KC. The only “truly” bad offense that Ramirez failed against was LAA, but they had also just got Vlad the Impaler back.

  19. MarinerDan on May 14th, 2007 2:17 pm

    Dave, given that Batista/HoRam/Weaver, rightfully, received F’s, what would you recommend be done? How would you fill the final 3/5 of the rotation?

  20. em on May 14th, 2007 2:20 pm

    Also, if O’Flaherty has good enough stuff to be effective against both LH & RH, what about Eric as a starter (and forgive me if this has been beat to death in other discussions)?

  21. Dave on May 14th, 2007 2:27 pm

    O’Flaherty was originally moved to the pen because he was battling back problems in the minors, and they didn’t think he’d have the durability to survive in the rotation. I don’t know the current status of his back problems, but if they’re mostly resolved, the M’s would be wise to at least discuss moving him back into the rotation. He won’t be a star, but he’s got more upside as a starter than everyone in Tacoma besides Feierabend.

  22. Dave on May 14th, 2007 2:28 pm

    Dave, given that Batista/HoRam/Weaver, rightfully, received F’s, what would you recommend be done? How would you fill the final 3/5 of the rotation?

    Weaver shouldn’t start any more games, obviously. Other than that, there’s not much you can do. You run Batista/Ramirez/Baek out there and bank on some improvement, because there aren’t any internal candidates who would be an improvement.

  23. Manzanillos Cup on May 14th, 2007 2:30 pm

    Dave, Re Morrow’s one pitch:
    I’ve only seen him a few times – what makes his fastball so good? It’s not the consistent high 90’s of a guy like Kyle Farnsworth, so I figure it has to be movement, or some kind of deception in his motion.

  24. eponymous coward on May 14th, 2007 2:30 pm

    So, with the offense at a C and the pitching at a D, how the heck did the M’s end up at 17-16, 1 1/2 back of the Angels?

    Crappy division.

    This feels like the 2005 NL West all over again… and note that the second place team in the NL West that year, the Diamondbacks, were 30-22 on the morning of June 1, 20005, 3 games behind the Padres.

  25. Doc Baseball on May 14th, 2007 2:31 pm

    207 pitchers have pitched to at least one batter in the AL this year (that’s about 160 pitchers good enough to make a team out of ST, and 50 or so call-ups/injury replacements/cup-of-coffee-drinkers).

    When you rank them in order of ERA, the Mariners’ “Ho-Batista-Weaver” rank 162 – 172 – 200.

  26. Brian Rust on May 14th, 2007 2:33 pm

    Damn. Tough prof. Especially if you’re Miguel Batista. Sure, he’s flunked three out of seven quizzes. But he earned As, Bs or Cs on the other four. His K/9 and K/BB are way better than Ramirez. Remember, there’s more to it than just ERA.

  27. Typical Idiot Fan on May 14th, 2007 2:36 pm

    O’Flaherty seems to not be pigeonholed as a LOOGY to me, at least not in Hargrove’s eyes. I think Sherrill is his LOOGY, while O’Flaherty is beating treated more as this year’s Jake Woods.

    In four of his six appearences, O’Flaherty has pitched 2.0, 2.0, 2.1, and 4.2 innings. The other two were 0.1 innings, obviously LOOGY then, and probably only because Sherrill wasn’t available.

    I think they, or at least Hargrove and / or Chavez, sees him as a long man. Or, perhaps, it’s just because O’Flaherty is pitching so well that he’s forcing the issue of staying in longer then one guy.

    Obviously on Saturday that was something different. O’Flaherty made the lefties look stupid in that lefty heavy Yankee lineup, so it made perfect sense to throw him out there for as long as he could go, and he nearly pitched an official game’s worth of innings. If he’d have started that game, he’d have had more righties to face, but from what I’ve seen, could have done just fine against them no matter what Torre threw at him.

  28. Sammy on May 14th, 2007 2:37 pm

    23.

    This is coming from the announcers, so take it with a grain of salt, but they’ve consistently been saying that his delivery is highly deceptive. He has a very fluid motion and the ball seems to fly out of his hands faster than it should.

  29. Doc Baseball on May 14th, 2007 2:39 pm

    “So, with the offense at a C and the pitching at a D, how the heck did the M’s end up at 17-16, 1 1/2 back of the Angels?

    Crappy division.”

    Plus blow-outs.

    8 of their 16 losses have been by 5 or more runs.

    Only 3 victories have been by 5 or more runs.

  30. Typical Idiot Fan on May 14th, 2007 2:45 pm

    28

    Say the same thing about Soriano. Oh the parallels are disturbing…

  31. Colorado Mariner Fan on May 14th, 2007 2:49 pm

    Dave said (re. Weaver), “He’s had the worst six start run of any starting pitcher in Mariner history.”

    Having seen each and every pitcher the M’s have trotted out there since Diego Segui, that stat is just mind-numbing.

    Somebody oughta’ invent a new adjective for that kind of performance. “Sucktasticitis” just doesn’t seem to go far enough…

  32. Evan on May 14th, 2007 2:54 pm

    Dave said (re. Weaver), “He’s had the worst six start run of any starting pitcher in Mariner history.”

    Having seen each and every pitcher the M’s have trotted out there since Diego Segui, that stat is just mind-numbing.

    According to some research posted to BP Unfiltered by Jay Jaffe today, Weaver has managed something like the fourth worst 6 start run in the history of baseball.

  33. John09 on May 14th, 2007 2:55 pm

    Dave,
    I’m curious if your grades include salary? In looking at your grades I’d guess not, and that is just fine.
    It’s hard to look at Beltre as average (C grade) when his salary says he should be much better. On the flip side if we had a player at third making the league minimum with Beltre’s offensive numbers and defensive ability, we’d all feel great about him. Since we’re not the Yankees, salary makes a big difference how we look at players because where we allocate our money is so important.

  34. John09 on May 14th, 2007 2:58 pm

    Wow, sorry, I don’t know how I ended up sending my post into this particular thread. I guess I still have to figure out the new, improved site. Not a complaint.

  35. Typical Idiot Fan on May 14th, 2007 3:02 pm

    Hey! Don’t grade Horacio Ramirez that low! He put the Yankees to sleep yesterday and that’s what Jamie Moyer used to do! So obviously Ramirez is just suffering from a transition from #3 starter to #4 starter! It’s hard to adjust to those position changes mentally!

  36. Dylan on May 14th, 2007 3:02 pm

    Are there any realistic SP trade targets that might be available at the break?

  37. Mariners_World_Series_Bound on May 14th, 2007 3:04 pm

    35 – stop trolling; it’s unbecoming.

  38. Typical Idiot Fan on May 14th, 2007 3:07 pm

    Well, 37, I blame you for not being able to post over in the position players thread because I was late to the game.

    And I just wanted to report that Mr. Tuiasosopo is up to his old tricks again:

    .341 / .439 / .468, 11 2B, 1 3B, 1 HR, 22 BB, 24 SO.

    God I want him to turn on the power and make a few more of those doubles fly outta here, but I will take a double hitting, on base machine any day of the week.

  39. Dave on May 14th, 2007 3:07 pm

    MWSB, you’re walking the moderation queue line. Knock it off.

  40. mark s. on May 14th, 2007 3:10 pm

    Overall it looks like the team could do better in the next 33 games then in the first 33.
    Woohoo!

  41. Mariners_World_Series_Bound on May 14th, 2007 3:14 pm

    [congrats, you're now moderated]

  42. Typical Idiot Fan on May 14th, 2007 3:14 pm

    hey hey hey…

    C’mon now, that one was my fault. I deliberately mocked the entirety of the previous thread with an obvious troll. Don’t blame the trolled for the troll… or we’d have to mod queue the entire readsership…

  43. Benno on May 14th, 2007 3:21 pm

    Wow, there are 3 other 6 consectutive starts in MLB history worse than what Weaver has done this year? I would love to find out the damage that was done in those starts. BP here I come!

  44. Doc Baseball on May 14th, 2007 3:24 pm

    “looks like team could do better in next 33 games…”

    COULD do better, yes. WILL do better? Probably not. Moving from performance rating the past to predicting the future, regression becomes key. My sense is, as Dave has discussed, Wash will regress toward his mean. Weaver will be gone, so there will be an improvement there — but probably balancing Wash’s decline. I think Ho and Batista will not regress — they are what we are seeing — this is their mean. So the starters will be the same. Felix will be good of course, but the Mariners essentially won all his starts anyway behind he and Baek — so his presence will not dramatically improve the record in the next 33 games.

    Among position players, Joh will likely decline, Richie will improve — a wash. Other 3 infielders are where they will be, at their mean. Outfielders: Ichiro will remain, Raul likely will be better, Guillen worse — again a wash.

    Relievers have been about a B overall, so no significant outlying performances for them to regress from.

    So overall, if you predict based on statistical probabilities, without any other significant changes, I think at the end of game 66, they’re likely to be 33-33.

    C’mon lady luck….

  45. oNeiRiC232 on May 14th, 2007 3:25 pm

    Why not consider Reitsma for the rotation? He used to start, and even marginal success there would be worth more than he could ever do being the 4th man in the pen.

    He’s had a great comeback from surgery and I think he’ll still get better — all of his peripherals returned to form, except for his GB/FB ratio, which looks fluky. It went from over 1.70 the last four years to 0.95 now. That screams outlier and I think regress back to the mean quite a bit.

    Make Reitsma Ho 2.0!

  46. SexsonPower on May 14th, 2007 3:34 pm

    I agree with most of the grades, but I would give batista and Ramirez both D’s instead of F’s. If Ramierez was 0-6 I’d give him an F, but the fact he has 3 wins in which he pitched average to above average raises him up to a D. Upon saying all that I hate Ramirez!!

    I also would give Retimsa a C instead of a B.
    and
    Eric O’Flaherty an A instead of a B.

    I know this is off topic, but [deleted, off-topic]

  47. danny_peterson on May 14th, 2007 3:49 pm

    Dave Zumsteg is a Nazi.

  48. Gomez on May 14th, 2007 3:58 pm

    With Reitsma barely going an inning at a time, I’m not sure you’d easily be able to stretch him out.

  49. Gerry Davis on May 14th, 2007 4:04 pm

    Dave,

    You say that Baek/Batista/Horam is the best we can trot out there with what we have in the organization right now, but what about Justin Lehr? I know you supported the signing at the time, and he’s been doing good in AAA. Any reason to believe he wouldn’t outperform those three?

  50. bigred on May 14th, 2007 4:05 pm

    Hey did anyone catch the story about the M’s first playoff game either being the 3 or 4 of October. I think I’m going to have to trade in my baseball cap for one of those knit beanies. This post season is going to be cold.

    Also, giving Felix an incomplete is kind of weak sister. He clearly dominated for 3 out of 4 starts. Thats at least a C for the first 20% in my book. He may get an incomplete for the rest of the season, but give credit where it’s due.

  51. eponymous coward on May 14th, 2007 4:14 pm

    Isn’t it unfair to give HoRam, Weaver and Batista F’s, since they are switching leagues? Much like switching from position playing to DH, pitching in another league is-(snicker, guffaw)…

    Crap, I can’t say this with a straight face.

  52. Paul B on May 14th, 2007 4:18 pm

    re Weaver’s historically bad start as an M.

    Digging into the brain cells trying to recall someone who had a truly awful debut as a Mariner starter.

    Steve Trout. 1988. 13 starts and a 7.83 ERA. Oh, the memories.

    And, yup, checking, he wasn’t anywhere as bad as Weaver. Although in Trout’s first start, which is probably what I recall, he pitched only two thirds of an inning and gave up 4 runs.

  53. SexsonPower on May 14th, 2007 4:19 pm

    Well at least Weaver won’t be recieving his 1.4 million in incentives!!

  54. 1000N on May 14th, 2007 4:37 pm

    #24 said:

    > So, with the offense at a C and the pitching at a D, how the heck did the M’s end up at 17-16, 1 1/2 back of the Angels?

    > Crappy division.

    I don’t buy it. The AL West is exactly at .500 right now which makes it very different from the 2005 NL West.

  55. Benno on May 14th, 2007 4:41 pm

    I wonder if Weaver would be able to file a grievence to get his incentives paid. He could claim the M’s never let him get into a groove, by pulling him too early in the games.

  56. dw on May 14th, 2007 4:41 pm

    Methinks comments on USSM are about to go away.

    Sigh.

  57. Paul B on May 14th, 2007 4:43 pm

    55, if I was an abitrator, and Weaver claimed that he got pulled to early, I’d have a real hard time keeping a straight face. No, I’d laugh out loud.

  58. colm on May 14th, 2007 4:55 pm

    Surely Weaver will have the grace to just pocket the $8M and shut up?

  59. hans on May 14th, 2007 5:00 pm

    Wow, a tale of two staffs! Lots of very high grades and lots of very low ones. At least it should be easy to improve (that is, if we had any way to acquire better starting pitching).

  60. eponymous coward on May 14th, 2007 5:00 pm

    I don’t buy it. The AL West is exactly at .500 right now which makes it very different from the 2005 NL West.

    The NL West was at 127-133 June 1, 2005 (with two teams over .500 and one team at .500) and started imploding afterwards.

    I’d also like to point out that of the top 3 teams in the division, you have Anaheim with an OBP/SLG of 9/11, Oakland at 7/12 and the Mariners at 11/7. None of them are what you could call good offenses.

  61. JMHawkins on May 14th, 2007 5:02 pm

    Dave,

    I’m pretty much in agreement on the grades (maybe I’d give Batista and F+). The surprising thing for me is the M’s continuing ability to fabricate a decent – actually sort of outstanding – bullpen out of spare parts. It’s an odd sensation for someone who remebers the Ayala and Mesa years to be nervous about the starters and optimistic when the game ends up then hands of the relievers.

  62. Jon on May 14th, 2007 5:22 pm

    Here’s the funny/sad part: Gil and Jo-El (I know how to spell his name) look better and better. Not this year’s Gil and Jo-El. The ones we had the past few seasons. If only Bavasi’s imports were THAT good.

    I finally was able to rationalize away my anger towards Bavasi by telling myself (over and over and over) that Weaver was signed because Bavasi was hedging his bets and he was hoping two out of the three would turn out well, but he just didn’t know which two. Three out of three would have been too much to hope for, while only one out of three was his worst fear. Well, his worst fear has been exceeded so far. None are doing well.

    Which means that we are looking back fondly (!) on Gil and Jo-El and we wonder, again, why is it we traded Moyer?

    I am not saying I wish we had Gil and Jo-El. I am saying that Bavasi’s decision to ditch them wasn’t followed by a well-executed plan to replace them with upgrades. And his decision to dump Moyer and open up a spot for youth has met with similar (lack of) success.

  63. msb on May 14th, 2007 5:30 pm

    trading Moyer was not ‘dumping’

  64. dks on May 14th, 2007 5:36 pm

    #24 said:

    > So, with the offense at a C and the pitching at a D, how the heck did the M’s end up at 17-16, 1 1/2 back of the Angels?

    Well, they’re two games back now that LA wond today, but your point holds.

    Luck and more luck. Luck that it’s a bad division and the division leader is only at 22-17.

    More luck that a RS/RA differential of 150-167 resulted in a record of 17-16 instead of 15-18. Although that’s not completely luck; it’s also that half (ok, not half) of the RA are from Weaver’s starts alone, but he can’t lose more than one game at a time.

  65. Edgar For Pres on May 14th, 2007 5:45 pm

    I think our pitching staff is the model of unreliable.
    Check this THT article out. It gives some good stuff about how being inconsistant actually isn’t that bad. Just kinda an interesting article that this writeup reminded me of.

  66. Ralph Malph on May 14th, 2007 5:45 pm

    The surprising thing for me is the M’s continuing ability to fabricate a decent – actually sort of outstanding – bullpen out of spare parts.

    This may be the easiest part of being a GM.

  67. AuburnM on May 14th, 2007 9:01 pm

    Guess what? I mostly agree.

    I would give Batista and HoRam Ds, not Fs, and the overall grade would be C-, but I agree with Dave’s overall point.

    This team needs three more RELIABLE, CONSISTENT starters if they going to win the division. As Dave points out, our best option is to cross our fingers and root for more consistency from Batista, HoRam, and Baek.

  68. hcoguy on May 14th, 2007 10:31 pm

    I think Batista and the Ho deserve their f’s but they should not have to share the same grade as Weaver. He should get a Y or a Z or hell he was expelled so whatever grade that would be.

    Actually, an L would be the best now that I have seriously (yes, seriously) thought about it.

  69. rcc on May 14th, 2007 10:40 pm

    Do the Mariners have any “replacement level” arms in their farm system that they could promote to replace even one of the three “F” starting pitchers?

    I note that Gil Meche has started in 6 of the Kansas City Royals 13 wins. Is it possible that he has turned a corner, and is not the suckfest he was as a Mariner?

  70. Tak on May 14th, 2007 11:28 pm

    Meche had another impressive start today as well.

    #64

    Luck is obviously a factor, but I would say that its more about the whole division being weak more than anything.

  71. Salty Dog on May 15th, 2007 5:23 am

    I don’t disagree with the F’s for Ho-Ram and Batista, but there’s reason for hope with both of them.

    Ho-Ram has struggled because he forgot who he was. Early on, he was trying to fool hitters, strike them out, and generally use tools that he just doesn’t have. I thought he was using his cutter way too much, which is what got him in trouble with the Braves. He’s a groundball pitcher who lives and dies by limiting walks, holding batters to mostly singles, and inducing double plays. I didn’t see his last start, but given that he had a 14-4 GB/FB ratio and only 1 walk, I’m hopeful he’s realized he needs to get back to basics: throw his sinker for strikes and let the infield defense carry him. That won’t make him a great pitcher, just a solid back of the rotation starter.

    Batista just seems to be a bit unlucky. His BABIP is abnormally high, his LOB % is abnormally low. I’ve watched a few of his recent starts, and he looks perfectly fine to me. Again, not a great pitcher, but one whose skillset should translate to quality starts.

  72. Gomez on May 15th, 2007 11:16 am

    Gil Meche apparently made a mechanical adjustment during ST that has allowed him to throw with more ease and, subsequently, control.

  73. DMZ on May 15th, 2007 11:57 am

    I’ve been chewing over a Meche post for a while, but to summarize: I think his improvement is not sustainable and cruel to Royals fans.

  74. eponymous coward on May 15th, 2007 12:19 pm

    Meche’s FIP is 3.66, his xFIP is 3.53. I don’t think he’ll have a 1.88 ERA all year long, but he’s improved his K rate, BB rate, and GB rate (with the increase in K rate dating back to last year, so if it’s a fluke, it’s a fluke that’s lasted for over a year). Let’s also recall this is a guy who’s had over 2 years blown out of his career by injury that he would have spent refining his craft.

    He would not exactly be the first power pitcher who big steps forward at a comparatively late age, either:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schmija01.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clemema01.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnsra05.shtml

    Note that I am not saying Meche == Johnson, or even Schmidt. If anything, he’s probably close to Clement (until he does something over a couple of years comparable to Schmidt).

    So I’m curious to see an argument as to why Gil Meche is going to disappoint the Royals.

  75. Gomez on May 15th, 2007 12:44 pm

    Ooh, now I’m curious, Derek! Is it the abnormal difference between his FIP and actual ERA? Is it a combination of weak lineups and an abnormally low number of runs scored off of the hits he’s allowed? You think his low walk rate is the product of hacktastic lineups rather than actual improvement of control?

    I’m totally pulling these guesses out of thin air, but I’m certainly curious. I’d welcome an entry on the subject if you get the chance.

  76. eponymous coward on May 15th, 2007 1:03 pm

    Oh, and let’s recall, these are the ROYALS we are discussing here.

    Staff aces for the last 10 years (leading team in IP), using bad traditional stats because that’s what fans will generally use:

    2006, Mark Redman: 11-10, 5.71 ERA
    2005, Runelvys Hernandez: 8-14, 5.52 ERA
    2004, Darrell May: 9-19, 5.61 ERA
    2003, Darrell May, 10-8, 3.77 ERA (this was their +.500 year…and they STILL had a staff ERA over 5)
    2002, Paul Byrd, 17-11, 3.90 ERA
    2001, Jeff Suppan, 11-14, 4.37 ERA
    2000, Jeff Suppan, 10-9, 4.94 ERA
    1999, Jose Rosado, 10-14, 3.85 ERA
    1998, Tim Belcher, 14-14, 4.37 ERA
    1997, Kevin Appier, 9-13, 3.40 ERA

    Let’s KC is used to being disappointed by their staff aces (exactly ONE year with more than 14 wins and a +.500 record, and three consecutive years where the staff “ace” posted an ERA over 5.50), so Gil’s bar for avoiding disappointment isn’t exactly impossible to clear here.

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