Game 40, Mariners at Indians
Dave · May 21, 2007 at 1:01 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Baek vs Sabathia, 4:05 pm.
The Indians are a good team and Sabathia’s a very good pitcher. But at least he’s left-handed, so there’s a good chance we’ll put some runs on the board. Except that Willie has been so awesome this year, he’s earned a second straight start in left field.
I’m sure Jason Ellison is thrilled.
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Hey, who are we ignorant fans to argue with a .103/.161/.138 line?
What’s your sample size? How many times do we have to discuss sample size???? I mean I know it’s Willie B, but at least tell us how many at bats the guy has.
Why’s Ibanez still out?
And a sub-Mendoza Sexson batting cleanup again. Wowwee Zoweee!!!!
Ibanez has back spasms.
Ok we need a win here today. If we are looking to get back in the heat of the AL West race now is the time. So lets do it.
My apologies. Who are we ignorant fans to argue with a career .253/.307/.323 line?
You know, Vidro is just like Ichiro, minus the speed, defensive ability, and power. Vidro is a singles hitting Frank Thomas.
I love that Ibanez’s injury was caused by sleeping.
That’s better than having the injury been caused by carrying his wife’s luggage.
better the sleep injury than the dreaded “samsonitis”
Did you know that Willie Bloomquist is just 2,761 hits away from 3,000?
come on beltre!
12: if we count Willie’s spring training hits, her’s practically there.
Did you know that Willie Bloomquist is just 2,761 hits away from 3,000?
Wow, I didn’t realize he’s that close.
He’s also only 751 HRs away from Aaron!
Let’s be fair, Jim. Bloomquist’s carrer line against LHP is 265/318/356.
Of course, Ellison’s same career line is 297/345/443.
And another scoreless inning brought to you by the M’s offense.
Wow, spelling mistake on 14, should be “he” (I’m sure there are a lot of jokes that could be made here).
Well, we can’t play Ellison too much and risk tiring him out for the stretch run.
Did you know that all Bloomquist needs to hit for the cycle tonight is a single, a double, a triple and a home run?
how many ruuners are we going to strand today? any guesses?
Grover’s response after the game: “We hit some balls hard.”
Yeah! Let’s bring Ellison back in late August when we’re 13 games back of the Angels!
It’ll be like 1995 all over again, except with fewer good players!
So, is the fact that the game is not televized in the Northwest a blessing in diguise?
An extra base hit?!! What’s that?! Are those legal?!
I say we strand at least double digits for the day, although now that I said that they’ll only strand 9 to spite me.
Ichiro Thought Bubble Theater:
“I am so freaking out of here.”
Ironing shirt while wearing it. Best baseball player injury ever.
Could Ellison make it through the entire season and amass fewer than 40 AB? 8 AB in 39 games seems almost unfathomably low to me. Will they eventually start charging him admission to watch the games?
I think Glenallen Hill might argue that.
Willie’s also only 2,630 consecutive games away from tying Ripken.
Hoo boy.
Baek threw four fewer pitches in his inning of work than Sabathia. He’s clearly the better pitcher.
Enough sarcasm about Bloomquist- give the guy a break. Did you know that rom 2002 to 2007, he’s hit more homeruns that Mark McGwire?
I thought Hargrove had benched Sexson! Can’t we all see the Broussard is the answer?! Is everyone taking crazy pills?
Hey now… He could very well hit the game winner today, then what are you gonna say? Well, he could.
I wonder what the single-game LOB record is?
Bloomquist up, man on 3rd, two out – ready for Ignition.
Every out is moving the runner ahead one base. Let’s hope the umpires lose count of the number of outs this inning.
37,
LOB records
I wonder what the single-game LOB record is?
20, New York [vs Boston], 09-21-1956
I propose we call the line above which Bloomquist is barely hovering the Mend Line.
nice ab there..way to work it
yes!!!
SCRAPPY
You can’t teach that kind of plate discipline.
Well that’s the best thing I could hope for from WFB!
Funk Quist!
I propose we call it the Alberto Gonzalez line – you know, the measure at which someone sucks so bad that anyone would think on face value that the stinker would be lone gone, but, because of the irrational man-crush of their idiot boss, will never be shown the door.
48. sure you’re not in the wrong blog?
I’m all for #48. And put so eloquently, too…
That was a fluid and logical working in of political angst. I applaud it!
You know, it must frustrate Willie … all the times he’s gotten on base only to be stranded by Ichiro. I really respect him for not popping off to the press about it.
Of course, despite how it seems (and how the past couple of years’ teams seem to play), high LOB numbers are going to correlate with good offensive teams, because to leave men on base you have to get them there… and at least some of the time you’re going to get the guys ahead of them home. For example, the Mariners team record for most left on base in a season (1257) was set by the 2001 team. The team record for fewest (1034) was set in 1983.
I sometimes wonder if Lauren is mystified by the “man-crush” phenomenon. Are there “woman-crushes”?
I get the impression Lauren understands men better than men do. But then most chicks, token or otherwise, generally do.
I don’t understand men at all.
I don’t understand Hargrove at all.
Another infield hit for Vidro? How can this possibly be sustainable?
Is anyone else’s Gameday frozen?
Anybody else’s Gameday frozen?
Yes
58 that was a well hit ball..a lot of infield hits are actually good hits whether it be diving balls stopped or ricochets like that..there was nothing wrong with that hit
Wow, 59, I like your terminology!
Sexson got a hit? /faints
Good call, I’m going to guess that I’m not the only one.
i wish we could get a hit with RISP…
Beauty. Go sit down Richie.
Between Vidro and the Ignitor, who will homer next? And how many ABs in between homers? I guessing well over 200 for ABs and Bloomquist.
jesus…the indians play-by-play just said the mariners self-destruct in the inning…he must not have watched any of our other games this year…
Two more hits for Vidro. I wish all our hitters sucked like him.
we’re 10-2 when Baek starts? why the hell did we pay weaver all that cash? we should have went with him from the beginning…
Understand men?! Bwahaha.
The phenomenon of the man-crush, however, makes complete sense. The addition of the prefix “man-” is just another way that straight men emphasize their straightness.
Mike must have looked into Richie’s eyes and seen that he was ready to play once more. If not run the bases well.
Wow, nothing like having Sexson get a hit, and then promptly get picked off first to end the inning with a most unusual double play. He is having a brutal season so far.
And I’m not advocating benching him for this. But I am curious how giving him some time off involves benchings him completely. Can’t he be give a day or two a week off? But I suppose that would require Hargrove to print up a few more alt-lineups for this year. Much easier to use the mimeograph at the beginning of the year.
Anybody notice Jim Street is back doing the Mariner’ mailbag? Here is my question of the day:
Could you please explain to me how to mathematically figure out what determines a team to be a half-game out of first place? I don’t understand it. Is it per every five innings or something else?
what the hell was that?
i bet richie would be off today if it was a right-hander on the hill for cleveland…
I’m just impressed by the 10 pitch, followed by the 12 pitch at-bats; both outs!
Yes – we have worked the opposing pitcher for 60 pitches in the first 3 innings. When is the last time we did that?
if we don’t knock him in, i’m out of here…
Two more hits for Vidro. I wish all our hitters sucked like him.
Why, so we could score less than what we do now? Because that’s what a team of Vidros would do: lead the majors in BA, be close to the top in OBP, be dead last in XBH and SLG, and hit into the most GIDP in the majors.
Oh, and said team would probably be the worst DEFENSE in the league too.
But hey, if an empty .300 batting average makes you happy…
I heart Johjima.
Bakomariner – agreed. There’s only so much disappointment one can take….last night’s runners on 1st and second….and nary a run.
#81
You’re right. Getting hits is a bad thing.
“Empty .300 average.” There’s a great new Sabrmetric.
coward, you just made the best point about why BA is overrated in evaluating a batter…
Yes, tie game.
guess we can stay loki…
I think we can all agree that an empty .300 is better than an empty .100, though.
Nice, lets give away another out.
Is there a worse baserunning team in baseball than us?
so willie costs us two runs by NOT making contact…what a douche…
Yep we can stay. But the fourth out on the base paths, sends me packing. 2 more to go.
that wasn’t jose’s fault…that was a hit and run and douche-bag willie couldn’t make contact…
Was that a steal or a hit and run?
Ooh! Down to .097!
In Vidro’s defense, he does have more walks on the season than our bottom four batters combined.
Still, a .300/.350/.350 line is about what you might expect out of a full season of Dave Hanson, and is just not really going to cut it for a full time DH.
“Empty .300 average.”
Yes, there IS such a thing, if you ground into double plays and don’t hit anything but singles.
Basically, Jose Vidro is the new Enos Cabell right now, except he takes a few more walks, hits for even less power, and has atrocious speed.
Maybe we can bring Mario Mendoza back as a special hitting instructor to work with Willie.
pretty sure it was a hit and run…
Nice play Ritchie.
Vidro is like Otis Nixon without speed. Otis’ last full season he hit 297/361/344.
What is the difference between a “man-crush” and a “woman-crush,” anyway? Can a woman have a man-crush? Is the definition strictly limited to the gender of the person having the crush or is it a particular type of crush. Like, if I, a heterosexual female, declare that I have a crush on Pam Beasley, isn’t that really sort of a “man-crush” because I don’t actually want to have sex with her or anything.
And, for the record, I don’t have either a man or a woman crush on Willie Bloomquist. On the “hot” scale from 1-10, he’s about a .8.
And, yes, this is a totally relevant post.
hopefully vidro doesn’t have the coke habit too…lol…
That’s a record I bet Ichiro will care about.
103: A coke habit might actually make him move a little faster.
griffey went yard…one behind killebrew…
Nice AB by Jose.
7 pitches then takes the eighth one for the team.
is guillen leading the league in getting hit?
And once again Dave’s hopes are dashed when the ball fails to clear the fence between the foul poles =) Keep singing it Dave, one of these days it’s going over the fence for ‘ya!
I wish there was more replays on MLB tv
, he looked out, but it was close
another base running out. 1 left
Nothing wrong with being aggressive on the bases with 2 outs.
just because it is the anniversary of the 1977 team, doesn’t mean they have to play like the 1977 team.
if a man-crush is a non-sexual crush by another man, I guess a woman-crush would be the same for the other gender.
and Willie isn’t close to an 8.
Not an 8. I think she said .8 As in less than 1.
.8
thank god.
Ralph – another one of those MLB aphorisms I don’t fully grok…but I’ll take your word for it.
Cy Sueng Baek! (or whatever we always say when he has a good inning)
Let me try to explain it…
If you hold the runner at 3rd with 2 out, it will take another hit (or a walk followed by a hit or walk) to get him home. Clearly less than a 50% chance that he’ll score if you hold him.
So if the 3rd base coach thinks it is close to 50-50 that he’ll score, he should take the chance and send him.
With less than 2 outs, on the other hand, the chances of scoring him with one of the next batters are much higher than 50-50, so the coach should only send the runner if he’s much more sure he’ll score.
has there ever been a sub .100 season for someone with, say, 100+ a.b’s that isn’t a pitcher?
This game isn’t on TV why? The Indians are broadcasting; our announcers are there…the technology to take their feed and slap our announcers on it and have KSTW, ( currently showing the highly rated “My Wife and Kids” ) carry it simply isn’t available in 2007 I guess. Maybe someday…
Rob Deer has the record for lowest BA by a player who qualified for the batting title, at .179. I’m not sure about 100+ AB’s, though.
Just woke up, how is Cy Baek looking?
Sending him is the right call. Still, what is the expected number of runs given runners on second and third with two out? It’s got to be reasonably close to 0.6 or so.
Is there anywhere that they post OPS numbers for the hypothetical Replacement level player at different positions?
Ray Oyler hit .135 in 247 AB in 1968. Bob Buhl went 0 for 70 as a pitcher. Bill Bergen batted .132 in over 200 AB in 1911.
nice series of pitches. now if only we could get some timely hitting…
And that’s the game winner.
Ollie, have you ever considered changing the spelling of your name to “Aleigh”?
Just wondering.
we’re going to win this game.
point blank .
And speaking of historically inept hitting, I fully expect Tim Lincecum to go through this season hitless. Basically, he hasn’t been allowed to pick up a bat since about his sophomore year of high school.
How can we lose against a pitcher from East Bontang?
I agree. We are going to win this game.
I was at the fallingceilingtiles game, by the way. In line for it, at least.
Gameday is hilarious:
WFB after 1-0 count: 0-13 (.000)
WFB this month 1-16: (.063)
#132: Ask Tyler Clippard. He hadn’t batted since high school, and he spanked a double in his debut last night.
Or Joel Peralta, who whacked a two-run double last night after having not batted for years.
pretty questionable call there
this ump is crazy
I didn’t know that about Clippard; also, if I had to judge him by just his appearance, I would say he hadn’t yet entered high school.
Well, you guys obviously have more faith in this team than I do. We’ll see.
Yes, Ichiro on base with 2 outs. Time for the super powers of Vidro to end the inning.
I remain convinced that Morse would be a significant improvement in the utility role; his offensive edge makes up for his defensive limitations over Willie
Anyone else have MLB.tv? I have the premium package and I can’t access it for some reason.
What the hell? Did Ichiro ground out or get a hit?
144: Singled. And then Vidro did, too. Beyond that, I can’t tell you, because every part of ESPN.com is lagging behind. And FanGraphs doesn’t update until a PA is complete.
gamecast said he grounded out but then Virdro singled and Ichiro went to third. Great program
And Guillen flies out.
Is it worse when we get a bunch of hits and lose, or when we don’t hit at all and lose? You know, we have more hits than they do, and yet…….
Watching on GameCast is odd. Obviously, I can’t see whether Cha is tired, but for several innings, I was blown away by how few pitches he was having to throw. And then in the 6th, the pitches per batter started going up and I thought, “Uh oh.” I was surprised to see him out again in the 7th, just based on the trend (and okay, the homer). Sure enough, hits to the first two batters, even after getting good counts.
why grover leaves Baek out so long?
‘Scuse me: first batter hit the first pitch. Next two batters both had 0-2 counts, though, and one was a hit, the other, a walk. Methinks he’s done, Grover.
So Baek is over 100 pitches, he’s just allowed the bases to get loaded with nobody out, and the decision is made to leave him in against Garko.
Can’t see how this would backfire.
#142: Defense matters. Morse has no position.
And extreme pessimism wins out again.
da*n: you can almost see it coming. 2 run double, game over.
Bloomquist may not have had a great shot at that ball, but he looked awful, turning in different directions, and making a weak throw.
So nice of KOMO to do the traffic report during a critical part of the game.
Bozos.
After Baek struck out Garko, why didn’t Grover take him out? The M’s lost his game because of Grover, no question about it. He should be fired on the spot.
153 if defense matters, then why not play Ellison today? He is a legitimately good fielding outfielder, not a legendary good one like Willie.
Wow great move Grover, please, next time don’t change the pitcher till the game is well and truly out of reach. I guess this could be 1 of the reasons why the Mariners millions can’t get us some decent pitching.
I agree. I’ve been the biggest Ellison booster here all season.
That was a ridiculously bad throw by the Ignitor.
Ladies and gentlemen, the best team in baseball: The Cleveland Indians. Who don’t they do well?
Vidro 3 for 4, now hitting an empty .311
I get it. He has no power. But if someone behind him did….
… he would still be a poor DH.
Well the good news is that we’ve gotten deep into the Indians’ bullpen, so they’ll be tired for the rest of the series.
Oh wait.
It’s not just the lack of power. It’s the fact that he has zero defensive value and still only has a .349 OBP. If he was say…a slap hitting center fielder with great range, and a good arm, and tons of speed he’d have some value hitting .311.
It’s not hard to find bats in the minors that would be more valuable than him, most of them just aren’t promoted because of questionable defense or being blocked at their position.
Nice first pitch pop-up by Vidro.
There’s your man Auburn, getting the big hits when they count.
well, I was going to ask how long after bases-loaded-nobody-out it would take for them to fail, but in the time it took to pull the page back up, they were already at 2 outs …
bases juiced and 0 out…puke.
ah, well. I got two chicken cut up — half in the freezer, half now cooked– and some stock going in the oven. that’s something, I guess.
Was it me, or was that one of the more depressing games of the season?
Grover screws up by leaving Baek in too long and our anemic line up squanders opportunity after opportunity, including a ninth inning bases loaded with no outs and the top of the order. fantastic
It’s not hard to find bats in the minors that would be more valuable than him
exactly.
without stretching my brain at all i can think of 4 guys on the rainiers alone.
and most of those guys would at least give you something in the field or in pinch run situations if you absolutely needed it.
No, not the most depressing game of the season — all too typical. Maybe that’s why it’s depressing. We’ve seen it before.
So there are 4 guys on the Rainiers who would hit over.300 right now in the show? Bring ‘em up!
Lousy baserunning – again. Leaves the pitcher in too long – again. I’m getting real close to jumping on the fire Hargrove bandwagon.
Does a player have to hit .300 to be more valuable than Vidro right now? Can’t he do one or more of the multitude of things Vidro can’t right now? Like do anything besides hit singles or draw the occasional walk?
the bullpen was mostly unavailable, per Drayer, between needing guys for the next 17 games without a break– plus Reitsma unavailable with a ’stiff elbow’
in better news, Mark Lowe threw on flat ground today, down in Peoria.
So there are 4 guys on the Rainiers who would hit over.300 right now in the show?
No, but there were a number of “free” options this offseason were we not fixated on “must have veteran hitter with proven” whatever.
Well, let’s see. Carlos Pena, available as a free agent, hitting .307/.374/.604.
Hee Seop Choi, who apparently all of MLB hates, posted an OPS of .789 his lat year in the majors… considerably higher than Vidro’s this year. And he’s 28.
Or, think of Bucky Jacobsen 2004. Really, it’s just not that hard to find guys who can give you a .750 OPS.
Or Jack Cust.
So there are 4 guys on the Rainiers who would hit over.300 right now in the show?
Maybe not…but I’m pretty sure that there’d be people who could get you .350 or better in OBP, and a tad better than .400 slugging.
(Really, now…focussing on batting average to the exclusion of everything else is a bit narrow. Who’s more valuable? Someone who hits .300 and gets on at a .330 clip? Or someone who hits .275 but gets on at a .375 clip? The key point here is not to get an out.
lordy, it must have been depressing. This thread died young.
And in other news, in Ballard B&GC Teeball, the Mighty Cobras went toe to toe with the Sluggers. Each team recorded a few out, and several balls even left the infield. Now that I think about it, each bunch of seven year olds actually recorded a double play, which is pretty darned impressive.
I have no idea what the score was.
All of this is why the move to acquire Vidro at the expense of Snelling was, in the opinion of this blog, indefensible. Even if you thought Snelling was fragile, guys who can out hit Vidro at a fraction of the price are everywhere. Broussard was on the bench. Wladimir Belentin could probably do it.
It will be fascinating to watch this team in the off-season to see what the owners do when facing the contracts of Sexson, Vidro, Ramirez and Batista. That is a TON of money tied up in counter-productive players.
The list of hitters in major league baseball who have hit for less power than Jose Vidro this year:
Jason Kendall (catcher), David Eckstein (shortstop), Juan Pierre (center fielder), Omar Vizquel (shortstop), Luis Castillo (second baseman), and Jason Bartlett (shortstop).
That’s it. That’s the entire list.
Honestly, if you can’t figure out why it’s a problem to have a DH that has as much power as the lightest hitters of the light hitting positions, I really don’t know what else to tell you.
Jose Vidro is one of the biggest problems on the roster. There’s a vast array of really awesome factual information available at your fingertips, Auburn, and a host of people here who are willing to help you learn more about the game. Posting nothing but “Vidro is hitting .310 now!” taunts is the equivalent to putting your fingers in your ears and sticking your tongue out at people.
The opportunity to learn is there for you. I suggest you take it.
Dave,
I get it. Vidro is not the ideal DH. But he hits a lot of singles and his OBP is pretty good. Pretty much what you want out of your #2 hitter.
Really my only point is this: We have lots bigger problems than Vidro.
If baseball games were won by guys that got singles with no runners on or in scoring postion, and Ohh, yeah didn’t cost 6.5 mil or so, or cost us a good prospect, yes Doyle a prospect since he hadn’t yet or hasn’t yet lived up to his potential even though I like him, then Vidro would be awesome. The reality is the worst team in the N.L. was willing to get rid of him for an underachieving-oft-injured aussie and a AAA arm, that should tell you all you need to know about Vidro. I’ve said before, other that Ichiro, he looks the most comfortable at the plate, but he has no power, playing a position that demands it, and he has no defense skills, and no speed, so basically, as his OBP has shown, he is gets to first every once and awhile, with no RBIs or Rs to show for it.
You want a DH who ‘hits a lot of singles’ and has a fair OBP? I think that too many people look at a +.300 BA and say ‘he’s doing good work!’ when in actuality, BA is one of the poorest ways to judge a hitter, and OBP is not what you want to measure your DH with.
Doesn’t it concern you that Bettencourt has more HR’s this year than Vidro? Or Broussard in 1/5th the plate appearances?
Vidro is absolutely killing the M’s with is lack of power…we don’t need another guy who gets a lot of singles, we need a guy (especially with Sexson performing so poorly) that is going to drive runners in. Vidro slugging for nearly .100 under Ichiro is absolutely inexcusable. Ichiro’s been on base 68 times this season, and has scored just 23 times.
Plus, how many guys named Jose do we need that swing at the first pitch in crunch time?
I’m sure Jose Canseco is looking for a come back.
Wait, I got it, the M’s front office heard the Star Spangled Banner at the begining of every game and thought that they needed a guy named Jose in their lineup.
Jose can you see, by the dawn’s early light………..
buh dum dum tsch
Vidro will continue to hit his singles. I will continue to worry about the rest of the lineup.
And the starting pitching.
And the bullpen getting burnt out.
And Hargrove’s bizarre nonchalance.
nonchalance? where do you get that?
So would a good move for Hargrove be to put Ibañez in at DH (put more power in the DH slot), Adam Jones in Left, and sit Vidro? And start shopping him? Vidro is hitting really well, but not for power. In past years, you could count on “some” power from Ibañez. Given the chance for his body to heal…(by only hitting) might help.
At this point, with this roster construction, we are simply moving the deck chairs about.
There are so many issues that a simple line-up shuffle isn’t going to make a dramatic difference to the win column. They are simply a very average team with far too many below average performances being turned in. Even if everyone was playing at their best, they would be average. I think we can agree that many are not playing at the level they once did. The extreme lack of power on this team is our weakness and no amount of line-up card changes is going to fix this. Combine the inability to score runs with our rotation and what you get is more losses then wins.
#4.
I have a quick question… Now, I understand what the Mendoza Line is, why is it named “mendoza line”? Who’s Mendoza?
Reading this blog a long time… first comment/question. Yeah!
Mario Mendoza:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mendoma01.shtml
The irony – the season that he hit .198 and the “Mendoza Line” was created, he was playing for the Seattle Mariners.
Thanks Dave. Pretty funny stuff.