Game 41, Mariners at Devil Rays
DMZ · May 22, 2007 at 3:35 pm · Filed Under Mariners
4:10 FSN. Washburn v Kazmir.
M’s present:
CF-L Ichiro
DH-B Turbo
RF-R Manhole
1B-R Sexson
3B-R Beltre
C-R Johjima
SS-R Betancourt
2B-R Lopez
LF-R Ellison
The Devil Rays offer:
CF-R Dukes
2B-R Upton
LF-L Crawford
3B-R Wigginton (not “Wiggington” remember)
SS-R Harris
RF-R Young
1B-L Pena
C-B Navarro
DH-R Cantu
Time to play “Would you swap ‘em?” Even if you think Upton’s an eventual DH, do you give up Lopez and try and fill second somehow? And then the outfield…
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yes, please.
I would trade the entire lineups, man for man.
And yay for Ellison.
CF-L Ichiro
DH-B Turbo
RF-R Manhole
1B-L Pena
3B-R Beltre
C-R Johjima
SS-R Betancourt
2B-R Lopez
LF-L Crawford
I’m probably a little to down on richie right now. But holy crap i’d rather take vidro than another DH!
Friedman for Bavasi in a second
Oh and I want young in the RF not ash hole. Damn typo
Okay, maybe I’d keep Betancourt.
Hmm. I dunno. I wouldn’t trade Ichiro for Dukes. Beltre for Wigginton = nope. Definitely not Joh for Navarro.
I’d definitely swap Upton and Lopez; our entire LF platoon (if not our entire OF — yes, including Ichiro) for Crawford; Guillen for Young; and Pena for Sexson…
There’s no way you pass up Upton if you’re sane. I’m sorry, but you just don’t. If that means Upton’s a butcher at 2B, so be it. If it means you put him at DH and play Bloomquist at 2B, that’s fine. Upton Upton Upton.
And, of course, I’d definitely be all over swappin’ Washburn for Kazmir.
We’re talking contracts here?
Then I’ll take their entire outfield + Upton, Pena, and Cantu.
Looking at performance this year only, I’d put my money on:
Crawford and Upton, no question. Pena and Cantu are toss ups.
And, based on age, contracts, projectible futures … how do you not takes Dukes for Ichiro?
Ichiro, Beltre, Johjima, and YuBet stay. I’ll take the Rays everywhere else.
Although I’d take Longoria over Beltre and Brignac over Betancourt…
can we do shields for HO while we are at it?
#11
My projectable future for Dukes involves the Miami Dade correctional facility. I’ll take ichiro
Show of hands:
Who would trade King and Wash for Kaz and Shields?
Hell no.
15. But you only get Ichiro until he is traded to a contender for prospects.
Kazmir is a stud, but he’s got to keep the pitch counts down… his control issues have crept back up and with our crap bullpen, we need him to go long innings.
Delmon sucks in domes, so don’t expect much from him in this series, but man, what an arm.
Good luck boys.
You’d really take a $15-million-a-year, 35-year-old over an uber-prospect with enormous upside under club control for the next three years?
16: I’d wait to see that Kaz doesn’t turn into Rick Ankiel, then I’d do that.
With young, upton, and crawford i’m thinking we’d be contending in the AL west.
16
interesting. i don’t want to make that decision.
I don’t understand Hargrove starting Willie in right, unless Guillen is not physically up to par. Aside from that, Grover was dealt a very bad hand by an incompetent General Manager. We used to have Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, Randy Winn, and Rafael Soriano. As a result of Bavasi’s trades, we now have HoRam, a decidedly questionable talent. He is worse than Woody Woodward, who was the worst GM in baseball. Woodward at least occasionally made a trade that stuck on the roster.
21: Waiting to see that Kazmir doesn’t turn into Rick Ankiel? That’s some amazing analysis there. You’ve really opened our eyes. Thanks for stopping by.
This is part of Kazmir’s fourth year in the league. The kid is mentally tough and if he hasn’t turned into Ankiel yet, it’s doubtful he’s going to. He has some control problems, but what hard throwing, young lefty doesn’t?
24, where does it say Willie is starting in right?
15: Assuming you’re serious, when’s the last time a major league baseball player went to prison mid-career?
C- No.
1B- Yes plz.
2B- Yes
SS- No.
3B- No.
LF- I would make that deal yesterday
CF- HAHA no
RF- Sure.
DH- Actually, believe it or not, no! Turbo sucks, but I just don’t see significant value in Cantu.
#28: Ugueth Urbina. Julio Machado.
24 – Guillen IS starting in right. Funny thing was, I had to double check that was the case. I could totally believe Hargrove running Crapquist out there with his mighty .306 OPS and even mightier, cannonesque arm. Baserunners beware.
Sorry 25, it was a stupid joke, I was just thinking about Kazmir’s control problems and his last start where he through 106 pitches in 4 innings and walked 6 (also struck out 9) I don’t really have ‘analysis’ on Kazmir, other than looking at his age, salary and stats, and thinking if he could make it past 5 innings on a regular basis, and if the concerns about his elbow aren’t true, he’d be a real nice pitcher to have.
How sad is it that I would trade entire organizations with Tampa in a heartbeat. Front Office, minor league system, 40 man roster, everything but the town and the Safe. Its the D-Rays for chrissakes!!! That’s how down I am on the M’s.
Course we’d only get to see Felix twice a year. Okay, forget it.
Would I swap…
C: No
1B: Yes
2B: Yes
3B: No
SS: No
LF: Yes
CF: No
RF: Yes
DH: Yes
P: Yes
GM: Yes
32: Now you’re making me feel bad for jumping down your throat by being all nice about it.
I’d bet if a decently fast player did nothing but take pitches and bunt, he could pull a .306 OPS.
The Rays aren’t great this year, but they’re about the most prospect-heavy organization in baseball. If Friedman is at all smart about managing personnel, Tampa Bay could be an American League terror from about 2008 on.
And, based on age, contracts, projectible futures … how do you not takes Dukes for Ichiro?
…
You’d really take a $15-million-a-year, 35-year-old over an uber-prospect with enormous upside under club control for the next three years?
I value Ichiro differently than most and Dukes probably less than most. Probably because I prefer MLB-provenness a little bit more than others, and I don’t believe Ichiro’s going to be ‘done’ any time soon, even at and beyond age 35. He’s got at least 3-4 All-Star quality seasons left in him, if not more.
Plus, I like lefty bats a little better than righty bats in Safeco. That, and, well, defense.
I would, though, trade Ichiro for Crawford…
What did Guillen do to earn that nickname?
TB does have a ton of young bats. They’re a little short on arms once you get past Kazmir (the Mets got robbed) and Shields, and given what pitching is going for (and what TB’s budget is like) they may have to trade some of those prospects for more pitching. But if they do it right, I agree they could be a mighty team in a year or two. Bummer for the Red Sox and Yankees, having two tough competitors in the AL East (/crocodile tears). I’d feel genuinely sorry for the Jays if they didn’t have evil cable money backing them, and the O’s if their idiot ownership hadn’t spent most of the past decade playing target practice with both feet.
Prospect-a-palooza!!!! The kids are alright!
Leadoff triple, walk, RBI base hit… better get your act together PDQ Washburn
I remember when Washburn had turned his season around, had turned into an ace the team could rely on to help them to the playoffs…. oh, three games ago, those were the days.
Are the M’s about to get spanked by the D-Rays tonight? This is not an auspicious start.
So far off to a good start!
The future has arrived.
Guillen doesn’t really deserve the nickname, but he’s the closest thing to the coveted rhymes with manhole that apparently is the only thing standing between the team and a World Series ring.
Okay. This is where we get a ground ball to third that turns into a triple play, right? Right?
I’ll take a DP here
Beltre makes up for it somewhat there.
Okay. I’ll take the line drive to third that DPs the guy off second.
#28 Willie Wilson as well
And for the record I wasn’t too serious.
Tampa Bay is not short on arms. They have the best collection of minor league pitchers of any organization in baseball, and the #1 pick in the draft in two weeks, which will be another elite pitching prospect in David Price out of Vanderbilt.
The Devil Rays system organization has the most impressive group of under-25 talent I’ve ever seen. It’s better than the early ’90s Indians.
Anyone else having trouble with Yahoo/ESPN baseball tracker? I can’t follow what is going on with the game. So, what is going on?
Joser (40): The Rays won’t be short on arms for very long. Kazmir & Shields form a nice 1-2, and then they have a BUNCH of arms coming up the pipeline. Between Niemann, McGee, Davis, Sonnanstine, Butler, Mason & Townsend…they should have a very solid rotaion by ‘09. Combine that with the offensive core they have and they’re going to be a force. I believe Jim Callis at BA picked them to win the WS in 2010.
Aaand Dave beat me to it. That, and I forgot to even include David Price. Wow…
You also omitted Jeremy Hellickson, Jason Hammel, Matt Walker, and Heath Rollins.
Seriously, the D’Rays have 10 or 15 starting pitchers with major league potential in their system. They’re loaded.
Speaking of Tampa Bay’s young pitching talent, why the heck are Niemann and Hammel still in Triple-A?
A rotation consisting of three hard throwing lefties (McGee, Kazmir, Price) is enticing. Throw in Niemann and Shields, and there isn’t a single soft tosser in the group.
Still need to upgrade the pen, though.
Heath Rollins has been godly in A ball thus far, but he’s old for the league, so we’ll see how he does higher up. Sonnanstine, out of any of the Durham staff, is the one who needs to be up. He continues to outpitch expectations and dominate.
Niemann still doesn’t know how to work deep into games. He throws a ton of pitches in 5-6 innings. They’re working on getting him to be more efficient, and the minors is a better spot to do that.
Why Hammel and Sonnanstine aren’t pitching every five days for Tampa, I’m not totally sure.
I have to say, saying that you’d take 3/4s of a season of Ichiro over multiple years of cost controlled Elijah Dukes is pretty crazy. I mean, I can understand the Ichiro love, but man’s gonna get old soon, and he’s already expensive. And Dukes is a pretty exciting talent.
Ichiro trying to get Broussard some ABs there?
Gametracker on yahoo and espn are not working for me either.
Call me crazy – I wouldn’t trade Ichiro for Dukes either.
Why not?
Specifically, why would you trade him for Dejesus (as I seem to remember you indicating earlier this year) and not Dukes?
Dave: If it’s just man-love for Ichiro, I can respect that. But if you have a serious team-building case to make there, I really want to hear it, ’cause you’re not usually totally crack-smoking insane.
I mean, if you really want him that bad, make the trade and then sign him back after 2007 closes.
Dejesus is an above average defensive cener fielder – Dukes is barely passable there, and he’s probably best suited to a corner outfield spot.
And, while I think personality stuff is generally overstated, Elijah Dukes has some pretty serious issues that threaten his ability to stay on the field.
Ah, Hammel. More South KItsap goodness. (He was about four years behind Willie and Ellison.)
Also, if you trade Ichiro in July, the chances of him signing here in the offseason are zero. There’s no way he’d come back after being traded away. No way.
Sims: “He’s young and he’s left-handed. They’re usually aces.”
Really? Jake Woods is young and left-handed. I wonder if Sims thinks he’s an ace.
Meh. This is starting to remind me of the old “Time to make the donuts” (and hang em on the scoreboard) commercial
If Hammell turns into something at this point, there’s going to be some USSM intra-author friction.
Really, the only thing Tampa is missing is a catcher.
What’s the deal with Hammell?
Pena = Free talent goodness.
Yeah, what are the divergent schools of thought on Hammel? (one l, by the way)
By the way, a big “Moneyball” milestone was passed today, as Oakland DFA’d Jeremy “Jeans Salesman” Brown.
Just watching Pena play makes me even more angry about the Vidro trade.
Hammel is a former Chukar of TVCC. He should be given the upmost respect
(Only Corcoran will be able to fully appreciate that I suppose)
can we PLEASE score a god-damn run this inning?
What is up with Yuni so far this year? Normal variation or something more seriously wrong?
I predict an Ellison home run.
83. you also think blake wins idol tonight ?
Even though pena’s number wouldn’t be as good in safeco. He would be as good as a fit for the ballpark as you could hope for. Or you could pay more money for a singles hitting turd. thats also and option.
And by the way, Pena costs almost nothing. Less than a tenth of what Vidro costs.
Can you believe all these IF singles for Vidro? It’s beyond insane.
Turbo keeps doing his thing
Okay, we have a major disappoint opportunity arising here. 1 out, bases loaded. What could wrong?
Another infield hit. I’ve never seen anyone get so much out of hitting the ball 30 feet.
84 – I thought the guy with the hair would win idol. I also drafted David Wright ahead of Miguel Cabrera in my fantasy league. And bought Earthlink stock.
#82
I wouldn’t say anything is up with Yuni; his BABIP is at .277, which is way lower than it should be when you consider his LD% is 20.5%. If it wasn’t for the low BABIP, his numbers would be just about the same as his numbers from last year, with a little more power and (unbelieveably) less on-base skill.
One thing that can go wrong: Guillen swings at a wildly high pitch.
Here’s the short version of the Hammel saga: I’m a DMB extreme keeper league thing with Jason.
I drafted him
I traded him to someone, he sucked
I got him back, he sucked
I recently traded him to Jason as part of a… well, I’m erratic GM, let’s leave it at that.
So if he gets his shot and manages to get a load of starts, well, I’m going to be really, really annoyed.
#92 — I was talking about what seems an inordinate amount of sloppy defense. Agree his offense is more or less the same.
Why is Guillen nicknamed Manhole? I like it. Just wondering if there’s a reason.
Guillen should be beyond embarrassed … chasing that high pitch TWICE in the same at-bat is wildly undisciplined, the sort of thing that should have been corrected in the low minors.
I predict Richie strikes out.
HA!!
that makes how many RBI’s now for Sexson in May?
Give me a heart attack.
That’s what Richie gets the big bucks for … groundball singles.
Would it be within our ability to guarantee Sexson accolades here for the rest of the season if he just gets ONE run in here?
haha “boner on the bags”
Ah. Yet more proof that Gamecast is really lagging today…
“Long run for Young….”
What, the guy’s in a cast or something? He had to move like 50 feet to catch that fly ball.
Sweet Mother of God…Sexson actually comes through!
Ellison shows plate discipline and first base. Guillen shows none and dugout.
As frustrating as that was, I made some phad thai with prawns, and it is mmm-mmm delicious.
I think Yuni got all of that one.
So is anyone going to tell me why Guillen is nicknamed “Manhole”? I’m stumped.
Gamecast: BOT 5th- Dukes single; Upton DP; Crawford Single; Wigginton FC
TOP 6th- Dukes Triple; Upton Walk; Crawford Single
Since when do the D-Rays get to play both sides of the ball? Is it a gimmick night a la Minor League Teams? I know their attendance is bad, but c’mon
Sonics get #2 pick in the NBA draft.
Woooooooooooooo! Welcome to Seattle, Mr. Durant.
Yeah, but gamecast also shows those 2 runs that just scored on the M’s side. Hopefully they are. Maybe it’s like in soccer or hockey, where if you score in the wrong direction that’s just your problem!
111: I believe your answer is here:
http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/21/perhaps-if-we-had-two-hands-and-a-flashlight
Where’d those little link helper tool buttons go?
O Marbledog – it is a reference to Baker’s “manhole” blog entry. See Joser’s #47.
O Thanks you. Rhymes with.
Helper buttons don’t work with the new template. I haven’t figured out how to fix that, and no one’s submitted a patch yet.
Wigginton blows. He represents the dark side of free talent. You’d be impressed with him if you saw nothing but counting stats, but there’s nothing behind those numbers, and his defense is subpar at every position.
Bullpen mound differing from actual mound: discussed in the book.
Wow…the Sonics-Trail Blazers rivalry just got very interesting…
Note: THIS is what you want out of a DH.
A fan-aided win for Tampa Bay? I didn’t think TB had “fans,” per se.
speaking of TB fans, I haven’t heard the heckler – am I just not paying attention or is he missing tonight?
I was away – Ichi was on first and the umps let him score, so Madden argued – was that it?
I’ve never heard of a runner allowed to score from first on a play like that. I guess since it was fan interference, the umps have leeway.
the heckler is here
125 – I just heard him pretty clearly.
There he is! Phew.
That guy is one of my personal heroes. Seriously.
#125
You haven’t been paying attention.
the heckler just showed up, at least from an audio standpoint
Is it too soon yet to declare Dioner Navarro a completely busted prospect?
You know that episode of Simpsons where Homer meets the guy who invented radio ads where two people yammer back and forth at each other, and Homer punches him immediately?
That’s how I feel about whoever invented ads where a bunch of people read some block of hokey text, sometimes repeating or overlapping the last person’s statement.
Funk blast!
Johjima!
KEEEEEEENNNNNJJJJJIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!
#80
I also appreciate the Chukar being from Parma….
Whatever else you say about the Bavasi regime, the acquisition of Johjima has been close to an unmitigated positive.
Okay, a few passed balls, but as I said, close to an unmitigated positive.
Bavasi won’t even take credit for the Johjima signing. He literally showed up to the meeting, said “sign me, I want to play for Seattle”, and his agent proceeded to take a far below market value offer in order to get it done quickly. To quote Bill when asked about the signing, it was “pretty damn easy”.
Also, Jim, if you’d have listened to me, you’d have known that Dioner Navarro sucked a long time ago. I had to all but throw things when I worked at BP to get him out of the top 10 prospect rankings.
I remember that … but hadn’t looked at Navarro’s numbers all season.
Sims started out saying Wiggington but has corrected himself. It must have been the influence of Rick Rizzs. Who also, by the way, says Alex Rihos. Drives me nuts.
But there’s always Jeremy Reed to redeem BP’s prospect-forecasting acumen ….
Whatever happened to Jeremy Reed?
142- why did everyone else rate him so high?
Reed’s hitting .269/.335/.383. He’s barely Quad-A at this point; the only thing that keeps him in the marginal fringes of prospect status is his age — he won’t be 26 for a few more weeks.
San Dimas, Calif. claims another native son — Bill, Ted and Jeremy.
Anyone watching this? Does it look as wild as it sounds?
now that this one’s in the books, i have to say KEVIN f-ing DURANT!!
the Supes may have been saved!
“I’m a fly ball, you know what I mean, and I nick my little hide on the catwalk. On the catwalk, on the catwalk, yeah, I shake my little stitch on the catwalk ….”
Thanks, Thom J, I think that about sums it up.
I can almost hear Hargrove, “Keep walking, boys, keep walking. Hit the showers…we’ll be back at the hotel before they figure this out.”
“I’m too Sexy for a jack, too Sexy for a jack, whadya think about that?”
Anyone else see Triunfel starting to hit for power, and getting his average up to .313?
Tampa’s ground rules are fickin’ weird. The rules for Safeco’s trusses are pretty straightforward (if it hits in foul territory it’s foul, and if it’s caught it’s an out; if it hits in fair territory it’s fair, and if it’s caught it’s an out). But Tropicana Field’s, well:
The next Future Forty update post is almost going to be entirely about Triunfel, the fact that he’s been killing the ball the last three weeks, and where he stands among the best prospects in the game. He’s blown by Adam Jones to the point where AJ can’t even see him in the distance anymore as the organization’s best prospect, and at this point, he’s making a legitimate claim to being one of the 5 or 10 best prospects alive.
To be 17 years old and this good is just remarkable.
Here’s something I’ve always wondered:
Let’s say a batter hits a fly ball with home-run depth.
The outfielder, in sheer unprofessional frustration, flips his glove high in the air.
The ball slaps the glove and drops toward the field of play.
The outfielder catches the diverted ball in his bare hands.
Is it an out?
139
You’re almost as cool as me, since I’m from Ontario. But were both cooler than Corco, because he’s only from McCall
But AJ is just waiting for the call-up, wheras Triunfel is what, at least couple of years away? Where’s the hot starting pitching prospects? Oh, yeah, in the bullpen, I forgot.
But hey, $10 gets you a Triunfel baseball card. Might be a good investment
157: if a ball can bounce off Jose Canseco’s head for a HR (it still makes me laugh out loud whenever I think about it — that may be the funniest play in the history of sports) then surely something approaching the opposite would have to be an out.
What was the call on the RJ pitch that killed the bird? I know the ball didn’t make it to the plate but the bird did. Was it a ball? Or did they just pretend that pitch didn’t happen?
157: It’s a triple. However if the ball is believed that it would fly out of the ballpark, the umpires can rule it to be a homerun.
Two years ago, Jeff Kent threw his glove up in the air at a line drive, hit the ball, and it was ruled a triple.
Heh, heh: Aaron Sele got taken downtown by .096-hitting pitcher Kyle Davies.
#15,28,30, etc. I guess Denny McLain did wait ’til his career was over …
so I missed both rhubarbs– why did Ichiro get sent home to score a run? and I assume Maddon was claiming the ball his part of the rings and so was a run, not an out?
150: I predict a rumor that the NBA rigged the draft, to keep basketball in Seattle, and even more to penalize the teams that were seen to be tanking.
164-
I think that rumor is already out there
Good day for sports in the Northwest. From a Blazers fan: congratulations Sonics fans, this may just keep basketball in Seattle. The Blazers are going to be very, very good in a couple of years.
The Mariners really took a back seat to ping pong balls tonight, but it was nice to see them beat a team they probably should beat. The Angels won again though, which sucks (but at least the A’s and Rangers lost).
Wasnt Kyle Davies that pitcher who got shot in the leg a couple years back while riding on the team bus? He was saved because he was wearing some sort of boots from a costume he had to wear as a rookie.
is this the same guy?
Here’s to Richie Sexson, highest WPA on the team for this game — and I think that may be a first for the season. It’s also his highest WPA all season (the only other time he got close was Felix’s first start, and Mr 12K was clearly the most valuable player in the universe on that day). Here’s hoping it’s the first of many more. And if it isn’t, I hope he sits because at least this time it clearly worked, and even if there was no causation I’d rather not watch him flail.
(I’d also like to think this will end Hargrove’s “sucking batters have to stay in the lineup until they magically stop sucking” philosophy, but I know it won’t).
#167– different Kyle … Kyle Denney. hard luck guy– he took a ball off the skull a few years back, too. I think he’s pitching in AAA