Weaver set to return to the rotation
WOOO HOO!
WEAVER MANIA!!
If you weren’t down after today’s game, well check this out!
Tuesday, manager Mike Hargrove said he wanted Weaver to face some live batters in game competition. But when Weaver declined to go to the minor leagues for a rehab start, the issue became pitch count.
Weaver, who threw a simulated game Monday, will throw a bullpen session Thursday in Seattle before the Mariners open a homestand with a game against Texas. He’ll then throw another simulated game Sunday, the last day of the series against the Rangers.
[...]
With the second simulated game behind him, Weaver will go back into the rotation, Hargrove said Wednesday.
I’m looking at my old CBA (helpfully provided by the MLBPA) and I’m not seeing the exact rule I want to quote, but then I’m tired.
I don’t understand why Weaver would want to do this, though, or why the team wants him back in the rotation. It seems like until they can tell that he’s a better option than anyone currently in the rotation, they would want to hold off. And for Weaver, he draws salary whether he’s getting rocked in the majors or the minors, and he’s likely to get a better view on his suitability to return to action in the minors than side sessions. The only reason I can see for him to refuse a minor league rehab assignment is if Weaver believes… I don’t know. That the minors are that horrible?
I don’t get it. And I don’t look forward to it.
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Antonetti in ‘08!!!
I would have figured that Weaver lost say in the matter somewhere around his 5th consecutive loss. And to think I thought Jeff Cirillo was overpaid.
Ridiculous. Who the fuck does Weaver think he is? And why don’t the Mariners go ahead and send him down anyways? As if today wasn’t bad enough…
I’m sorry. That was horribly redundant and pointless, but I’m pissed. Screw Jeff Weaver.
Because this club is stupid. Plain and simple. You know what, I can somewhat forgive the horrible off season moves, they shouldn’t have turned out THIS bad. But when a guy puts up the worst ERA+ in Mariner starter history, maybe you should part ways.
Ok, NOW the season is over. . .
#5: Too bad everyone in the upper management doesn’t think so. . .
Roger Freaking Clemens makes minor league starts. Weaver is an ass who doesn’t want to get shelled in the minors. Good lord. His career just might end with his return. At this point, he isn’t any better than Aaron Sele.
My hunch is that Jeff Weaver doesn’t want to lose his job to Feierabend.
Though if he gets rocked in his first start, will the club have to pay his entire contract because he refused to do a rehab start?
Sounds like a good guy.
Maybe he could be a nanny after his MLB career is over in a few weeks.
Who’s running this team? Dubya?
I’ve been trying to choke this down for a few hours now and it still doesn’t make a whole lot of sense… It seems absurd to take his demand to go straight back into the rotation instead of at least making a relief appearance or start in the minors.
Maybe Weaver doesn’t want a start in the minors in case he sucks there too and loses whatever shred of ego he has left?
Maybe the Mariners are caving in to his diva demands behavior so he can blow another start and we can finally call it quits on him (at least in the rotation)?
Maybe the management is scared of pissing him off so he doesn’t make bad PR?
I don’t know, but it makes me sick.
Weaver wants to pitch in the big leagues and thinks he is still a big league pitcher, or is unwilling or afraid to face the possibility that he isn’t. One part of his mind however is thinking pretty clearly, and seeing that the longer he’s kept out of the rotation, the less likely he is to return to it. A minor league rehab assignment must look like the thin edge of the wedge that is designed to keep him from the rotation. So, I think his desire to avoid a minor league rehab start is actually quite understandable, from the point of view of human nature.
What management is thinking is another story. It might be as cynical as letting him fail big time on the big stage as a way of justifying the ax (”the sooner we let him fail, the sooner we can dump him”). More likely is Grover’s knee jerk reaction to favouring veterans, and a strange and deep seated belief that really, he can’t be THAT bad.
I hope he gives up taters to the first four batters he faces so we can be rid of him for good. Won’t go to the minors? WTF? I don’t think our A-ball starters could have underperformed him here.
From Article XIII of the Basic Agreement:
Is there any hope that Weaver’s injury had some root in reality and that he may improve his performance following the rehab he’s supposedly done while on the DL?
::sigh::
why not give brandon morrow a start or two?
Maybe he knows he is so bad that if he got sent down he would never be able to work his way back.
My first reaction when I saw this was that Weaver was afraid he would be shelled in the Minors also and then there would be no question in anyone’s mind that he sucks and that would be the end of his career. If he doesn’t go down, he somehow maintains some “smoke and mirrors” chance to convince someone that his inability to pitch was a fluke or that he just was facing a good team that was hot.
Does anyone recall if last year when he was with the Angels that he did something similar and that is why he was finally released by them?
I agree with #18 Jar: He has to know how bad it will look if he goes down to pitch a rehab minor game and then gets rocked, and the one game stint becomes 5 games etc.
I’d get rocked in the minors for 8 mil a year. Where do I sign up?
Where do you sign up? Apparently at Mariner University!
This (not forcing Weaver to take a rehab start) is another symptom of something I’ve noticed for a while– the current management, Hargrove especially, has so much respect for Proven Veterans that it looks like they are *afraid* of said Proven Veterans. Other symptoms are:
* Proven Veterans are in the lineup every single day, while the bench rots. (Lopez and Yuni aren’t Proven yet, so they have to sit to let Willie play once in a while.)
* Proven Veterans stay in the lineup, in a respected lineup spot, no matter how bad their performance. (Everett last year, and Ibanez this year)
* Hargrove’s occasional quotes to the effect of “we’ll have to try to find a way to get him a day off sometime” about a player who plays every day. I always wanted to respond to this: “Hey, I know a way– JUST DON’T WRITE HIS NAME IN THE LINEUP!”
* And now this Weaver crap (and coming soon, HoRam crap).
Antonetti (and *anybody* else for manager) in ‘08!!
He doesn’t want to get embarassed in the minors. Simple as that.
I think most teams stick with washed up veterans for way to long – it’s not just Seattle. The Good Ole Boy network within the game takes care of it’s own.
you know, the wine & cheese was probably better than the game
I heard the tail end of Hargrove talking about this last night, and it sounded as though he & Chaves just ‘gave him some options’, and then Weaver said no. I’d hope there was more to it, but …
also from the Onion, something from the “too sad to really be funny” file
edgar is go(o)d : Up at post 15, Steve Nelson quotes the rule which states that Weaver can’t be forced to go to the minors for a rehab start. So, not sending him down is not an example of Hargrove’s or Bavasi’s incompetence.
You could, however, criticise them for putting Weaver back in the rotation instead of the bullpen.
i brought hop-flavored wine…the cheese was good though…such a degrading night…literally hiding from a large number of people, yelling at a TV, and stealing cheese to take back up to the game…the depths the Ms fan goes to…and then, of course, the game itself was putrid…
Well, maybe there is a silver lining here. Weaver sucks and he should be cut, Weaver pitches well and the M’s win. However, I would think that a better manager (and GM) would be able to dictate how this plays out better.
I’m with the others in that Weaver is worried that by going to the minors his career will be done. Get beat up in AA or AAA, and nobody calls him after this year. Great team player.
Here’s hoping Feierabend pitches a gem in his next start and forces Hargrove to rethink. Or that Feierabend pitches a gem, gets sent down, and Weaver gets rocked again making Bavasi look like a idiot again.
I buy the “Weaver doesn’t want to get displaced by another young pitcher theory.” His opportunities are dwindling with Baek in the rotation, and they’d be shot if Feierabend sticks. He is playing for next year’s contract. Or maybe Jeff Weaver just really hates riding the bus.
The M’s don’t have any good choices, given the language in the contract.
If Weaver doesn’t give his consent to a rehab assignment, their choices are (1) leave him on the DL and have him file a grievance over it — which they’ll lose if he isn’t actually injured at this point, (2) cut him and have him file a grievance over it which they’ll probably lose since they’ve now gone on record as saying that he was hurt but now is better, or (3) give him a couple of simulated games and activate him.
They don’t really have a choice in the matter now. If he sucks it up in 1 or 2 starts they can cut him. But I don’t think they are in a good position to cut him right now.
When they put him in the DL with “sucktastitis” they pretty much committed themselves to giving him another shot. If they cut him now he could argue — with some justification — that he was being cut for being injured, which I don’t think they can do.
His brother look dominant last year but very weak this season. Yesterday he look like Jeff. If I was the Angels, who say they need a bat, this would be the guy I would dump.
Give him a shot, but in the bullpen. Let’s learn from the Piniero experiment. If he doesn’t want to go to the minors, that’s fair since it was a fake injury. But how do you justify a rotation spot? Seriously, Hargrove
Weaver believes his stuff is crap and that even minor leaguers will hit him.
By only pitching in the majors, Weaver continues to face major-league competition, and thus any improvement (and that’s a pretty low bar) can arguably look legitimate.
But if he pitches in the minors and still gives up 1.3 runs/IP, he’s done, and he’ll NEVER pitch a big league game again. Apparently Weaver isn’t willing to face that, so he refused the rehab assignment.
If Jeff Weaver’s little brother is listed as “good” Weaver, what does that say about Jeff. Experiment is over. The only thing I want to see the next time I see his name is DFA.
They don’t really have a choice in the matter now.
Baloney. They don’t have to give him a start. If he uses the CBA to decline a rehab assignment, I’d stick him in the bullpen in long relief and then not use him for a month. Every time he asked about playing time, I’d say “Oh, you’re still here? I thought you were doing a rehab assignment in Tacoma.”
As soon as he refuses that rehab assignment, I want to make a roster move that requires I put him on the 60-day DL. That would piss him off.
In additional comedy:
The only Mariner listed among the top eight in the first announcement of AL All-Star voting was Ichiro, who is ranked third.
Hargrove said that others should be recognized, including catcher Kenji Johjima (hitting .309) and shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt (.287), left fielder Raul Ibanez (.283) and third baseman Adrian Beltre (.275).
“Kenji should be a lot higher,” Hargrove said.
“He’s a good player with All-Star stats. Every club has to establish itself. We’ve got good players with good numbers, and the more we do it, the more interest we’ll draw.”
That’s “15 errors before June 1 Yuni” and “Raul with 7 U’s and a .724 OPS, 22nd in MLB in LF”, folks.
I imagine your manager has to pump up his players about being All-Star caliber, but really, Mike…
Oh, and linky
Or maybe his shoulder really is better, and he really has worked out problems contributing to his suckiness, and he really is ready to be a major leaguer again, even as a #4 or #5 starter. Surely he must realize it’s time to fish or cut bait.
I totally understand why Weaver doesn’t want to go the minors (especially if his injury was really an “injury.”). What’s the upside from his perspective?
On the other hand, I don’t understand why the Mariners would then just plop him back in the rotation. Every team needs a mop-up man … he seems like just the guy for that role right now.
One strategy for that: spend the party openly shopping for another girlfriend (aka flirting). The point of this is not to actually acquire a new girlfriend (who, by definition, would just drag you to more wine and cheese parties) but to give your current girlfriend a reason not to drag you to such parties (a reason that makes sense to her, unlike “But there’s a game on!”).
Getting back to Weaver: I’m not even going to try to speculate on the motivations of either Weaver or Bavasi & co. However, it does look like they’re obligated to give him another start, and I’m ok with that as long as Hargrove pulls him as soon as his suckitude becomes evident. My worry is that he will have improved enough so that instead of returning to the historic level of failure that would make him easy to DFA, he’ll bump along at the same level of ineptitude we’ve seen from rest of the offseason acquisitions — bad enough to lose games, but not bad enough to let go.
Boy, I bet Weaver wishes he’d taken that two year deal to stay with the Cards. Given the season they’re having and difference in leagues, he might not even stand out as their worst pitcher (Anthony Reyes, anybody?)
So the CBA says he can’t be sent down while on the DL. Could they just take him off the DL and then send him down?
Another simulated game? Quick, sign Chris Widger!
From now on, Jeff Weaver’s nickname should be “The Human Pinata.”
why, that’s just mean, how could you say such a …. hmmmmm. you know, Widger is still a ‘free agent’
Quite honestly, if he really is mouthing off and won’t pitch in the minors. Just cut him right away. Even if we do have to eat up the rest of his contract, who cares?
Because this is Ichiro’s contract year, this team has made it clear that they are all about winning the division. And to do that, we need 25 guys in that clubhouse that are willing to do things such as ask themselves how can they get better each day? This is of course exactly the opposite of what Jeff Weaver is doing right now with this move.
I knew this experiment might fail from Day 1, but I didn’t know it would fail this badly. But this confirms exactly what I knew from Day 1, and that is Jeff Weaver is not pitching for the Seattle Mariners. Jeff Weaver is pitching for Jeff Weaver, which is the kind of guy you don’t want hanging around during this do-or-die season. The only reason he signed a $8.3 million contract with us for 1 year instead of staying in the NL where he belonged is to make more money next year.
He’s basically joined the ranks of A-Rod in my book as just being a greedy SOB.
Thank you Bill Bavasi, you’ve done it again with this move.
Antonetti (or Cashman) in ‘08.
If I were a Mariner, I’d want Mike to say bad things about me so I didn’t get selected. After this schedule, I’d want those three days off.
I’ve come to conclusion that it’s once again a decision of contract over talent and club’s best interest.
Bavasi trying everything in his power to show he’d make another late offseason signing that now needs to be DFAed and the club’s on the hook for the remainer of a 8.3 mil dollar salary.
Hopefully two more starts and the jig will be up and Bavasi will have no choice but to DFA Weaver and hopefully will transfer Ramiez to the 60 day DL.
I had suggest the best possible options late before ST was Redman,Wolf,Jason Johnson in FA and via trade Jennings of or formerly of Colorado.
I also stated for about the money given to Weaver the M’s could have aquired Mulder and used him as long to middle relief til his arm was sound and strong enough to start.
Til then either Feierabend or Lehr could have worked the slot in the back of the rotation and at far less money than even Ramirez.
This is just another reason for Bavasi to be fired and replaced by:
Bob Engle
Chris Antonetti
however not Cashman he just window dressing in NY and a fall guy for Steinbrunner who really makes the decisions and the moves.
Also Hargrove must be out of the job soon and replaced in the interim by McClaren and the ownership needs to pursue the following if McClaren isn’t the choice in fact:
Joe Giridi
Ken Macha
Tony Pena Sr.
maybe Bobby Valentine
They can’t send him down without his OK either.
I’ve just closed my eyes again
Climbed aboard the Scream Weaver Train
Driver take away my hopes for the game today
And leave the mangled bullpen behind
Ooh, scream “Weaver!”
Cursing and drinking to get me through tonight
Ooh, scream “Weaver!”
When is Bavasi going to see the light?
Your pitches flying through the starry skies
Maybe to an astral plane
This is every benchwarmer’s fantasy
Help me to forget today’s pain
Ooh, scream “Weaver!”
Cursing and drinking to get me through tonight
Ooh, scream “Weaver!”
Getting a pounded by the Royals really is a sight
But now the DFA is coming soon
We all know it’s past time
Carry you away to the bright side of the moon
I want you playing for the other side
Ooh, scream “Weaver!”
Cursing and drinking to get me through tonight
Ooh, scream “Weaver!”
When is Bavasi going to see the light?
That’s brilliant, wabbles.
I fear I must take issue with Bearman’s selection of field managers. And I actually think Cashman would be prettty cool.
I just realized the greivance issue actually is not an issue. Since the money is guaranteed, Weaver would be drawing the paycheck regardless if he was injured or not. There may be an issue with placing him on the DL, but as has been mantioed before, it isn’t the first time a team has done this. The only thing that could be lost from DFA is someone’s pride. Weaver is the new definition of a “Sunk Cost”.
Evan they are just suggestions of a beginning list however I’d love to see if fired Ron Washington given the job.He has here at least a solid bullpen with a least a half of a consistent rotation along with a way better D and a easily corrected offence.
With Washington you’ll see the BB being used as offensive weapon with just enough swingers in the order to spell RBIs.
As to Cashman if he was a true GM why is it Torre brings his player need list to Steinbrunner first?
Think about it.
I agree Benno I don’t think it’s aunion matter with Weaver but more of one of Bavasi having to admit he screwed the pooch in signing him as he had to with so many others Everett,Spiezio etc…..
With exception of Johjima,Burke,Guillen and maybe Washburn quite frankly the wasted contracts outweight the good ones.
Trades don’t get me started with those!!!! However with the Broussard deal is decent,the recent Davis one as well,and even the Vidro deal is paying off a little since Fruto is still at AAA with the Nationals.
Snelling has since been traded to the A’s and has returned to the DL not long after arriving I understand.
As to moving onto the 60 day DL may prove diffcult cause of his relative health and readiness to pitch again.
Ramirez should be placed on that list so the M’s can either recall and retain Feierabend in the rotation or bring up Lehr and have a spot for him on the 40 man roster.
Thanks Wabbles, needed that laugh.
If you guys haven’t been looking, Rafael Soriano is #1 in WPA:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=n&type=0&season=2007
And in a single post Bearman not only indulges in the retro-rosterbation offseason shoulda-coulda, he also invents an entirely new form of rosterbation: the managerkoff.
Before they bring Weaver off the DL, did they even see if his arm was stronger? They should be able to tell in the bullpen if he can now throw faster than he was in games. If not, what’s the point?
As Dave pointed out probably a month or more ago, Weaver doesn’t have enough movement on his pitches to get by with slow stuff.