Comments on: Outfield Defense http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/ Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:38:22 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Adam S http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213615 Adam S Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:38:52 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213615 John, I think including the words o-f-f t-o-p-i-c automatically put your post in the moderation queue. Let's hope my hacking got around the queue. To the original topic. Grrr, how can a professional organization be so dumb? John, I think including the words o-f-f t-o-p-i-c automatically put your post in the moderation queue. Let’s hope my hacking got around the queue.

To the original topic. Grrr, how can a professional organization be so dumb?

]]> By: John in L.A. http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213411 John in L.A. Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:45:47 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213411 What does "Your comment is awaiting moderation." mean? Was it something I said? The book thing? What does “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” mean? Was it something I said? The book thing?

]]> By: joser http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213256 joser Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:54:08 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213256 Yes, the fact the M's never learned the lesson that "defense matters, especially in Safeco" (and especially with the kind of pitchers they always seem to sign) is indeed mystifying, and it's the lesson they should have learned in 2001. Take a look at <a href="http://www.baseballgraphs.com/main/index.php/history/al/2001/" rel="nofollow">these graphs</a> of that season. That's the team that won more games than any other, and if you were looking for the measure that clarifies <i>how</i> they were so much better than their peers, look at the last graph (DER vs FIP). Yes, the fact the M’s never learned the lesson that “defense matters, especially in Safeco” (and especially with the kind of pitchers they always seem to sign) is indeed mystifying, and it’s the lesson they should have learned in 2001.

Take a look at these graphs of that season. That’s the team that won more games than any other, and if you were looking for the measure that clarifies how they were so much better than their peers, look at the last graph (DER vs FIP).

]]> By: John in L.A. http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213240 John in L.A. Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:26:20 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213240 Making several assumptions are the team's competence and wisdom and assuming AJ comes up and stays a Mariner... How close is AJ's defensive potential to Ichiro? Can you foresee a day in the next year or two when right field becomes Area 51 again? *One thing that makes me laugh every single time is the old "Off topic, but (deleted, off topic)" I will never fail to be shocked that so many walk that razor's edge of having just enough awareness to realize that they are breaking a rule... but not quite enough awareness to realize that the rule is soon to be applied to them. Dave, I don't know if it has been discussed, but I seriously think that this site's authors should collaborate on a book. I think it should be titled "Deleted, Useless" and subtitled "Baseball, the internet, and fan-based journalism" or some such. You guys have been on the high-quality end of the discussion-based sports coverage for a long time... and that subject touches more and more people every day. Do it. I'll buy it. Making several assumptions are the team’s competence and wisdom and assuming AJ comes up and stays a Mariner…

How close is AJ’s defensive potential to Ichiro? Can you foresee a day in the next year or two when right field becomes Area 51 again?

*One thing that makes me laugh every single time is the old “Off topic, but (deleted, off topic)”

I will never fail to be shocked that so many walk that razor’s edge of having just enough awareness to realize that they are breaking a rule… but not quite enough awareness to realize that the rule is soon to be applied to them.

Dave, I don’t know if it has been discussed, but I seriously think that this site’s authors should collaborate on a book.

I think it should be titled “Deleted, Useless” and subtitled “Baseball, the internet, and fan-based journalism” or some such.

You guys have been on the high-quality end of the discussion-based sports coverage for a long time… and that subject touches more and more people every day.

Do it. I’ll buy it.

]]> By: planB http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213239 planB Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:22:53 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213239 Uhhh, doesn't Bavasi's "fuck Dave Samson" kind of preclude any Mariners/Marlins trades? No? Uhhh, doesn’t Bavasi’s “fuck Dave Samson” kind of preclude any Mariners/Marlins trades? No?

]]> By: Paul B http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213238 Paul B Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:14:58 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213238 <i>Well, he DID sorta back down saying Willis probably isn’t available, either straight up for Jones, or (ha-ha) for Clement or Balentien.</i> Does anyone believe that is true? Does anyone other than Baker believe that the reason that Bavasi hasn't traded AJ for Willis is because the Marlins want more? Well, he DID sorta back down saying Willis probably isn’t available, either straight up for Jones, or (ha-ha) for Clement or Balentien.

Does anyone believe that is true? Does anyone other than Baker believe that the reason that Bavasi hasn’t traded AJ for Willis is because the Marlins want more?

]]> By: John in L.A. http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213237 John in L.A. Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:10:40 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213237 172 - I can't see how that would be possible. First they would have to care about defense, and second, they would have to have stabbed themselves in both eyes to think he was worse than Raul. 172 – I can’t see how that would be possible. First they would have to care about defense, and second, they would have to have stabbed themselves in both eyes to think he was worse than Raul.

]]> By: Red Apple http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213236 Red Apple Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:06:04 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213236 172: <i>Is it possible that the Ms have concerns about Jones’ defense (he was clearly learning on the job during his premature call up last season) and that’s what is keeping them from promoting him?</i> I doubt that. He's become a fine outfielder in a short amount of time, and they should recognize that. He was shaky when he first came up last season, but he improved week-by-week at what appeared to be an exponential rate. I was amazed. Really, nobody outside the organization probably knows why they're keeping him down. I don't even have a guess that's worth hazarding, so I won't. 172: Is it possible that the Ms have concerns about Jones’ defense (he was clearly learning on the job during his premature call up last season) and that’s what is keeping them from promoting him?

I doubt that. He’s become a fine outfielder in a short amount of time, and they should recognize that. He was shaky when he first came up last season, but he improved week-by-week at what appeared to be an exponential rate. I was amazed.

Really, nobody outside the organization probably knows why they’re keeping him down. I don’t even have a guess that’s worth hazarding, so I won’t.

]]> By: terry http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213233 terry Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:58:03 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213233 Is it possible that the Ms have concerns about Jones' defense (he was clearly learning on the job during his premature call up last season) and that's what is keeping them from promoting him? Is it possible that the Ms have concerns about Jones’ defense (he was clearly learning on the job during his premature call up last season) and that’s what is keeping them from promoting him?

]]> By: terry http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/comment-page-4/#comment-213232 terry Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:54:47 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/26/outfield-defense/#comment-213232 Dewan has a piece in the Fielder's Bible on Jr where he argues that zone ratings at Stats Inc consistently indicated that Jr got fewer balls in center than his peers during Jr's glory years. Dewan concuded that Jr had a gold glove arm in the '90s but didn't necesarily deserve his GG rep. So it seems Jr had range issues before his catastrophic injury (basically his hammy is stapled onto his bone). Watching him daily though it's glaringly apparent that Jr has severe range issues now. I'm not sure Edmonds is the greatest comp given the nature of Jr's injury. Dewan has a piece in the Fielder’s Bible on Jr where he argues that zone ratings at Stats Inc consistently indicated that Jr got fewer balls in center than his peers during Jr’s glory years. Dewan concuded that Jr had a gold glove arm in the ’90s but didn’t necesarily deserve his GG rep.

So it seems Jr had range issues before his catastrophic injury (basically his hammy is stapled onto his bone). Watching him daily though it’s glaringly apparent that Jr has severe range issues now. I’m not sure Edmonds is the greatest comp given the nature of Jr’s injury.

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