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	<title>Comments on: What Now?</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: scraps</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-3/#comment-213839</link>
		<dc:creator>scraps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 05:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213839</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Have you been watching what Piniella Has done with the Cubs? Shades of 1995? I’m sure the Cubs will find a way to blow it, as they are cursed, but still, that’s a hell of a turnaround by lou.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Cubs had been playing as far below their Pythagorean projections this year as the Mariners had been playing above.  The Cubs are making a run from a hole they never should have been in in the first place.  If Lou gets credit for the Cubs&#039; charge now, he should get the blame for how much below their potential the team was playing most of the year -- and for the apparently awful state of the clubhouse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Have you been watching what Piniella Has done with the Cubs? Shades of 1995? I’m sure the Cubs will find a way to blow it, as they are cursed, but still, that’s a hell of a turnaround by lou.
</p></blockquote>
<p>The Cubs had been playing as far below their Pythagorean projections this year as the Mariners had been playing above.  The Cubs are making a run from a hole they never should have been in in the first place.  If Lou gets credit for the Cubs&#8217; charge now, he should get the blame for how much below their potential the team was playing most of the year &#8212; and for the apparently awful state of the clubhouse.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul L</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-3/#comment-213816</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 04:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213816</guid>
		<description>Does anyone wonder if this maybe is not Bavasi&#039;s fault but that he&#039;s actually trying to make changes and his hands are being tied by upper mgmt? 

Dave seems to have connections to the organization - maybe he can poke around and find out?

I dunno, maybe I&#039;m grasping as straws. It just seems so irrational to literally do NOTHING at a time like this that I&#039;m assuming other factors are in play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone wonder if this maybe is not Bavasi&#8217;s fault but that he&#8217;s actually trying to make changes and his hands are being tied by upper mgmt? </p>
<p>Dave seems to have connections to the organization &#8211; maybe he can poke around and find out?</p>
<p>I dunno, maybe I&#8217;m grasping as straws. It just seems so irrational to literally do NOTHING at a time like this that I&#8217;m assuming other factors are in play.</p>
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		<title>By: eponymous coward</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-3/#comment-213771</link>
		<dc:creator>eponymous coward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213771</guid>
		<description>dw @ 23-

I&#039;m not particularly optimistic about &quot;coming back&quot;. Pythag says his is a .500 team that got lucky winning a lot of close games (their 18-9 June record is based on a 142-133 run differential), and now is finding out that close games don&#039;t really tell you a lot other than &quot;you&#039;re lucky&quot;.

I was never particularly impressed by the &quot;but those blowouts don&#039;t mean anything&quot; line of argument as to why the M&#039;s were really better than their Pythag. Good teams don&#039;t get blown out a lot, and have better pitchers than Bad Jeff Weaver, Bad HoRam, and Bad Feierabend, and aren&#039;t dead last in walks in their league. Right now, the book on these guys should be &quot;don&#039;t throw strikes and let them get themselves out&quot;.

A few weeks ago, we were an 85 win team that might win 90 if we stayed a little lucky and made some moves to improve the roster. Now, we&#039;re an 85 win team that had the lucky streak at the craps table run out, and the roster moves aren&#039;t being made and are costing us. The team hasn&#039;t really changed: Ichiro rocks, but the entire team still doesn&#039;t walk or strike out and lives on dies by streaky singles hitting, the core of the lineup  mostly depends on guys over 30 who are good candidates to collectively decline as a group from here on out (Raul, Vidro Johjima, Sexson, Guillen- and the one power hitter who ISN&#039;T is also the one guy who&#039;s under 30, Beltre), the rotation has 4 #3-4 starters unless Felix learns his craft, the #5 is a joke, the corner OF defense is bad, the middle infield is mildly disappointing, and the bullpen is still strong but cannot be expected to be superhuman for a 162 game season.

All told, I don&#039;t see why you should pick these guys over NY, LAA, CLE, BOS or DET... so basically, all the wailing and gnashing of teeth is over a bad run at the craps table after a good run. 

I also have some questions about expecting Adam Jones to provide a big offensive lift, since he&#039;s a) not a particularly patient hitter, joining a team of guys who have never seen a pitch they won&#039;t swing at, b) a de-facto rookie who might easily struggle for 50-100 PAs adjusting to major league pitching, since he hasn&#039;t likely seen any since late April-early May when all the good AAA pitchers left the league via callup, and c) a RHB on a team that&#039;s way too heavily RHB anyway. I think he&#039;s still the right move, on the grounds that there&#039;s no better time than the present to put in the better player, and Jones &gt; Raul or Vidro, take your pick...but this might not pay off right away (and it&#039;s why it would have been nice if this move was made weeks ago, so it would be closer to paying off if he struggles for a bit on the initial callup).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dw @ 23-</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not particularly optimistic about &#8220;coming back&#8221;. Pythag says his is a .500 team that got lucky winning a lot of close games (their 18-9 June record is based on a 142-133 run differential), and now is finding out that close games don&#8217;t really tell you a lot other than &#8220;you&#8217;re lucky&#8221;.</p>
<p>I was never particularly impressed by the &#8220;but those blowouts don&#8217;t mean anything&#8221; line of argument as to why the M&#8217;s were really better than their Pythag. Good teams don&#8217;t get blown out a lot, and have better pitchers than Bad Jeff Weaver, Bad HoRam, and Bad Feierabend, and aren&#8217;t dead last in walks in their league. Right now, the book on these guys should be &#8220;don&#8217;t throw strikes and let them get themselves out&#8221;.</p>
<p>A few weeks ago, we were an 85 win team that might win 90 if we stayed a little lucky and made some moves to improve the roster. Now, we&#8217;re an 85 win team that had the lucky streak at the craps table run out, and the roster moves aren&#8217;t being made and are costing us. The team hasn&#8217;t really changed: Ichiro rocks, but the entire team still doesn&#8217;t walk or strike out and lives on dies by streaky singles hitting, the core of the lineup  mostly depends on guys over 30 who are good candidates to collectively decline as a group from here on out (Raul, Vidro Johjima, Sexson, Guillen- and the one power hitter who ISN&#8217;T is also the one guy who&#8217;s under 30, Beltre), the rotation has 4 #3-4 starters unless Felix learns his craft, the #5 is a joke, the corner OF defense is bad, the middle infield is mildly disappointing, and the bullpen is still strong but cannot be expected to be superhuman for a 162 game season.</p>
<p>All told, I don&#8217;t see why you should pick these guys over NY, LAA, CLE, BOS or DET&#8230; so basically, all the wailing and gnashing of teeth is over a bad run at the craps table after a good run. </p>
<p>I also have some questions about expecting Adam Jones to provide a big offensive lift, since he&#8217;s a) not a particularly patient hitter, joining a team of guys who have never seen a pitch they won&#8217;t swing at, b) a de-facto rookie who might easily struggle for 50-100 PAs adjusting to major league pitching, since he hasn&#8217;t likely seen any since late April-early May when all the good AAA pitchers left the league via callup, and c) a RHB on a team that&#8217;s way too heavily RHB anyway. I think he&#8217;s still the right move, on the grounds that there&#8217;s no better time than the present to put in the better player, and Jones &gt; Raul or Vidro, take your pick&#8230;but this might not pay off right away (and it&#8217;s why it would have been nice if this move was made weeks ago, so it would be closer to paying off if he struggles for a bit on the initial callup).</p>
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		<title>By: Donald P.</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-3/#comment-213761</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213761</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know who is aware of this but while Reitsma continues to stink it up Julio Mateo is down in Tacoma with 0.85 ERA, in 22 games with 31.2 innings pitched. I&#039;m not the biggest Mateo fan but he DOES NOT walk people, he might get hit but in those 31.2 innings he&#039;s struck out 28 and walked 2 freakin batters. Come on what are they waiting for. I realize he had the Domestic Abuse problems, but if they were gonna let him go don&#039;t you think they would have done it by now! Bavasi is driving me crazy how he could improve this team without even making a Trade and yet nothing is happening! i.e. Jones and Mateo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know who is aware of this but while Reitsma continues to stink it up Julio Mateo is down in Tacoma with 0.85 ERA, in 22 games with 31.2 innings pitched. I&#8217;m not the biggest Mateo fan but he DOES NOT walk people, he might get hit but in those 31.2 innings he&#8217;s struck out 28 and walked 2 freakin batters. Come on what are they waiting for. I realize he had the Domestic Abuse problems, but if they were gonna let him go don&#8217;t you think they would have done it by now! Bavasi is driving me crazy how he could improve this team without even making a Trade and yet nothing is happening! i.e. Jones and Mateo!</p>
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		<title>By: Bearman</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-2/#comment-213753</link>
		<dc:creator>Bearman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213753</guid>
		<description>I was never a supporter of Hargrove and I in fact wanted to see McClaren in the job.Now I still don&#039;t regret that support for him then and not now.

Unfortunately I believe he is under the same pressure from Bavasi and his upper level bosses. In many cases play contract over team best interest and to play offseason aquisitions by Bavasi namely Reitsma,HoRam,etc.........

He is being limited in his ability to make game decision by the interference of that policy from above .
This is also the reason for the failure to callup the needed help from AAA in Jones/Balenien etc...... 
That policy is also why many here and in other blogs,forum etc.....fear the M&#039;s will waste those very prospects to make one of Bavasi&#039;s deadline deal for a overthe hill overpaid &quot;proven vet&quot;.

The key to the future of this club is the complete overhaul of the FO from GM up otherwise expect season after season of just .500 ball or bit better but no playoffs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was never a supporter of Hargrove and I in fact wanted to see McClaren in the job.Now I still don&#8217;t regret that support for him then and not now.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I believe he is under the same pressure from Bavasi and his upper level bosses. In many cases play contract over team best interest and to play offseason aquisitions by Bavasi namely Reitsma,HoRam,etc&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>He is being limited in his ability to make game decision by the interference of that policy from above .<br />
This is also the reason for the failure to callup the needed help from AAA in Jones/Balenien etc&#8230;&#8230;<br />
That policy is also why many here and in other blogs,forum etc&#8230;..fear the M&#8217;s will waste those very prospects to make one of Bavasi&#8217;s deadline deal for a overthe hill overpaid &#8220;proven vet&#8221;.</p>
<p>The key to the future of this club is the complete overhaul of the FO from GM up otherwise expect season after season of just .500 ball or bit better but no playoffs.</p>
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		<title>By: Slippery Elmer</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-2/#comment-213745</link>
		<dc:creator>Slippery Elmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213745</guid>
		<description>&quot;I guess you just want to shave your head, have a drink and be left alone.

(Is that too much to ask?)&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I guess you just want to shave your head, have a drink and be left alone.</p>
<p>(Is that too much to ask?)&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: SpokaneMsFan</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-2/#comment-213743</link>
		<dc:creator>SpokaneMsFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213743</guid>
		<description>Per Dave&#039;s suggestion I am posting here to vent to the front office: Would you please at least give us a press release explaining why we have a DH that slugs significantly under .400 and a left fielder that doesn&#039;t catch fly balls? I&#039;m sure there would be a lot less frustration if we were given anything that resembles a logical explanation as to these two seemingly illogical circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Per Dave&#8217;s suggestion I am posting here to vent to the front office: Would you please at least give us a press release explaining why we have a DH that slugs significantly under .400 and a left fielder that doesn&#8217;t catch fly balls? I&#8217;m sure there would be a lot less frustration if we were given anything that resembles a logical explanation as to these two seemingly illogical circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: CaptainPoopy</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-2/#comment-213720</link>
		<dc:creator>CaptainPoopy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213720</guid>
		<description>Matt Morris would cost too much in terms of payroll additions. Jennings would be out of the question.... as I believe he&#039;s too valuable to their franchise (they did give up some decent players for him). No thanks to any pitcher on the trading block as of now. Dontrelle is not worth AJ, or his paycheck for that matter. 

There&#039;s no pitcher that can help us right now. Every pitcher out there is either too expensive or sucks (mostly both though). The moves I say we should make the rest of the year is as follows; bring up AJ and sit pat. Let him get experience and dont make any other roster moves. That includes not signing Guillen to a long-term deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Morris would cost too much in terms of payroll additions. Jennings would be out of the question&#8230;. as I believe he&#8217;s too valuable to their franchise (they did give up some decent players for him). No thanks to any pitcher on the trading block as of now. Dontrelle is not worth AJ, or his paycheck for that matter. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no pitcher that can help us right now. Every pitcher out there is either too expensive or sucks (mostly both though). The moves I say we should make the rest of the year is as follows; bring up AJ and sit pat. Let him get experience and dont make any other roster moves. That includes not signing Guillen to a long-term deal.</p>
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		<title>By: bergamot</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-2/#comment-213719</link>
		<dc:creator>bergamot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213719</guid>
		<description>Any starting pitcher acquired by the M&#039;s will have about 12 starts for the remainder of the season.  He would have to be Stealth Bob Gibson to make a big difference at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any starting pitcher acquired by the M&#8217;s will have about 12 starts for the remainder of the season.  He would have to be Stealth Bob Gibson to make a big difference at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: BillPhi2</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/comment-page-2/#comment-213718</link>
		<dc:creator>BillPhi2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/07/27/what-now/#comment-213718</guid>
		<description>93: I agree with your central premise that we need to improve the pitching staff.  Without getting into major rosterbation, I also don&#039;t believe the available talent is worth the price we&#039;d have to pay for it.  So we both agree and disagree. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>93: I agree with your central premise that we need to improve the pitching staff.  Without getting into major rosterbation, I also don&#8217;t believe the available talent is worth the price we&#8217;d have to pay for it.  So we both agree and disagree. <img src='http://ussmariner.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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