Game 105, Angels at Mariners
DMZ · July 31, 2007 at 6:19 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
Lackey v Weaver. Neither team made a move.
Lineups, meh. Jones still not there.
Lackey’s awesome. Weaver… I missed a whole run of effective Weaver, it looks like, because his ERA is under six (if barely) going into this game. Sure, his K rate’s still bad, and way under career numbers, but the walks are okay, he’s not giving up home runs. That’s not the bounce-back playing-for-a-long-term-contract year they wanted from Weaver, certainly.
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Mariners vs. Angels
Round 2… FIGHT!
Lackey hasn’t done very well lately. Over the last month or so, I think their numbers are pretty close. At least, they’re closer than they were a month ago.
If last night is any indication, the M’s have the eye of the tiger. It’s games like these that make being a fan so special
Geoff Baker wrote that he spoke with Bavasi and said that AJ will be up this week (or in a week?).
After getting so excited last time there was an Adam rumor and ending up disappointed, I’m not going to get my hopes up til I see him on the field.
When did ‘Chemisty’ become our official slogan? The FO throws it around as an excuse for keeping slumping guys. It worked for Boston yes, but they also had Damon, ManRam, Ortiz and the rest. Sexson = NOT Ortiz
Raul = NOT ManRam (although their defense is similar)
Weaver, July: 3.51 ERA, 33 IP, 32 H, 4 HR, 9 BB, 18 K
Lackey, July: 4.18 ERA, 32 IP, 33 H, 3 HR, 9 BB, 31 K
Sooooo they’re the same pitcher except that Lackey gets 75% more strikeouts.
That’s not close.
I am so glad we won’t have to sift through post after post of rosterbation anymore. Hooray for no more lame trade deadline talks.
I just watched the condensed game from yesterday and they looked good for the most part. Yuni’s defense is starting to scare me, its going to kill us in one of these big games. Here is to another big win for the M’s!
oh and Baker apparently said that Adam Jones will be up this week, and that him and Clement were “untouchable” prospects. Good job Bavasi. I just hope you aren’t pullin’ our collective chain on Jones. Seemed like this was the case during All-Star weekend, but never came to fruition.
off topic,
[deleted, off-topic]
Mariners only team in baseball to use the same 13 position players… I was thinking today how nice it would be to see AJ for the simple fact its something new.
Cleveland just lost, a chance to be with in half game tonight.
Say what you want about Raul in left or Sexson at first defensively,
but they’re million times better that Ramirez or Ortiz.
Ramirez is a historically bad left fielder, he’s almost as bad as just playing with two guys in the outfield. Ibanez is merely another of a long line of bats who have to play somewhere.
You can’t say much about Ortiz, other than that he’s a backstop at first base.
Thank god we didn’t waste Adam Jones’ finite supply of goodness on that losing streak.
Maybe we should wait another month, now that I think about it. I mean, let’s watch the team lost some more ground first.
All this media talk of the team being good enough and having the right mix… yeah, fellas? Here’s an idea then… what is your excuse for being three games back? Why not get the lead and then talk to me.
“Of course, Brad, the Mariners are the only squad in mlb to use the same 13 position players all year long. So clearly their consistency has counted for something.”
Yeah… not good enough.
Damn you guys sure are depressing. Complaining for being 3 games out and 1.5 back of the wild card? You would think that the M’s win every year instead of sucking for the past 4 years.
FSN = Front Office Propoganda Machine
9: What game were you watching? Yuni made several outstanding plays yesterday (well, there was one routine play he made look difficult, but still …). I was impressed with how accurate his throws to first were given the orientation of his body after fielding. I saw a much improved SS over the one we watched much of the first half.
18- He did have some good plays and 1 or 2 great ones, but had a back hand play pop out of his glove and tossed one up about 10 feet making Sexson jump and use all of his tall frame to get the out. He has the most errors of any SS it is a problem. I would agree he has looked better, just not sure it is enough.
Okay, 7, but it looks like a much closer match up than it would have about a month ago and Lackey has pitched worse lately.
Yay, the Mariners got rid of Mateo, they killed, uh, one bird with one stone, and they got another shortstop prospect, thats, uh, 4 now!
fishiam,
Betancourt was talked about after his first year as a premium glove (because he certainly didn’t hit – .666 OPS) that was good enough to justify his bat. Last year, he had a nice year at the plate and all the sudden he’s not a good enough fielder. Interesting how things change.
Happy Me Day!
Hey Bud, let’s party!
14: My understanding is that Ramirez looks really really bad in defensive metrics that don’t properly account for the fact that he plays half his games in Fenway, but that Fenway’s LF makes everybody look awful, ’cause you miss tons and tons of chances that would have been outs in any other stadium in baseball. And that once you account for that, Ramirez is merely very bad, rather than historically awful.
Wouldn’t it be cool if Ibanez didn’t start his own bobblehead night.
Simms just said some of the smartest things I think have ever come from his mouth
16 – If you think that’s what I was complaining about, I can’t help you. I think it’s great that we’re still in it… it excites me to no end.
Did I just read someone trying to rationalize Manny’s craptastic defense?
No, you just read someone trying to understand Manny’s craptastic defense. I realize that it’s a subtle distinction, one that is lost on some people.
Did anyone notice who is leading the PCL in HRs right now………Rick Ankiel….wow, I’m surprised his name was never out on the rumor wire.
At least the Angels DH has less power then ours does…
Kind of a shame we didn’t get a Weaver vs. Weaver matchup.
So, I’ve been watching “The Bronx is Burning” while waiting for this game to start and there have been some startling revelations. It turns out this Steinbrenner fellow . . . was kind of a jerk! Wow, will fascinating facts about the Yankees ever cease?
Aloha Mr. Hand!
DMZ
If I recall, the last outing for Weaver, he pitched well.
No run support, but a quality start.
A couple of days ago, ESPN.COM had it listed as Weaver vs Weaver, which would’ve been cool. With that said, GO OUR WEAVER!!!
The would have been a double if Manny was in left.
*Waits for that Ibanez catch to start another 200-post debate*
Nice catch Raul
At this rate Ibanez will win a gold glove.
Here we go again … with the “great catch by Ibanez” comments. THAT was a routine fly made difficult.
Nice hustle, Raul
(wonders if that will offend the diehards)
38 – “The would have been a double if Manny was in left.”
That wouldn’t have been a double if Verne Troyer was in left.
I notice Weaver did not “make preparations” to get the team haircut. I predict a loss.
Mr. Hand! You’re really bailing me out so far tonight!
That was NOT routine.
Honestly, let’s can the Raul stuff for today. It’s really old.
Yep, Ichiro is awesome. And super first inning by Weaver.
Raul looks ugly in tracking one down and Ichiro follows it with a smoothly rundown catch coving three times the ground. I like having Ichiro.
Always nice to see a 9 pitch Weaver inning.
48 – Platooning him at DH would make it all go away… please email the front office. You’re our only hope.
46 HAH!
And a nice call by Niehaus on the third out – “Ichiro chasing the ball down and making a difficult play look routine.” You couldn’t ask – in terms of successive plays – for a better contrast in outfield styles.
TURBO can still sure slap those singles….
I’m just excited for when Raul breaks out of his slump, and Richie starts his annual second half tear, then we will be on our way to big things
MY TURBO LOVER!
He’s not called TURBO for nothing!
Damn umpire!!!
I accidentally signed up for a cardinals email list, check this out:
CARDS ACQUIRE VERSATILE RIGHTY PINEIRO
The St. Louis Cardinals acquired right-hander Joel Pineiro from the Boston Red Sox on Tuesday for a player to be named later. Pineiro, 28, went 1-1 with a 5.03 ERA in 31 relief appearances for the Red Sox before being sent to AAA Pawtucket, where he made two starts. Away from Fenway Park, he posted a 3.60 ERA in 16 appearances. Pineiro has compiled a career mark of 59-56 with a 4.50 ERA in 216 games (148 starts).
Hee Hee
Sit, Turbo! Stay! Good boy.
[Pineiro]
Nice, loud, “God damn” from Lackey on not getting that call.
I’m pretty sure Ichiro has been slumping too.
Bases loaded. Cmon Richie.. do what you did last year.
needed a run that inning
Or not.
Sexson… you chump.
4 straight balls to Raul, bases loaded, naturally Richie swings at the first pitch. That angers me.
65: The first half of last year, yes. He was happy to oblige.
Richie loves his LOB
rally over, we can count on Sexson for that.
:’(
Yeah…just how many bases-loaded chances will we get against Lackey? How many chances with guys in scoring position? Poo.
Sexson: good BP = uh… warning track power! (Jeez.)
Richie is so worthless….geez…what a blown opportunity on a very big night.
69- Pretty much.
Mariners Baseball, it’s swingtastic!
Yeah Richie blew it but dont forget Beltre’s terrible AB. Taking fastballs down the junk and going after ballls at his eyes.
64 – Ichiro is 5 for his last 9.
Even his July OPS is almost 250 points higher than Raul’s. So… it’s all relative, I guess.
I think we are going to get good Weaver again this evening. He’s a nice pickup we made 6 weeks ago off the disabled list.
75 – Yeah, like a good BP translates to good hitting in game. Though I’ll always like Niehaus, that was an absurd conflation. “If hitting 515-foot bombs against 60-mph batting practice pitches is any indication that he’ll have the same success against one of the best pitchers in all of baseball…”
Can we have a new rule: Any body armor you wear to the plate, you’ve gotta wear around the bases too.
Inside the mind of Richie Sexson:
Brain: Ok, big guy. Runners on base with two outs. Lackey’s having trouble finding the plate. Be a little patient here, and…
*Richie pops up*
Sexson: Were you saying something?
/we need adam jones up here sooner/i
78 – When Beltre was hitting as poorly as Sexson is now, believe me, he got it WAY worse than Sexson has. Way worse.
Sure his at bat was disappointing… but he’s earned a few mulligans this year, no?
Richie used up all his grace area by May.
Matthews, you dick!
Nice pitch Weav
I demand a drug test be performed on Matthews Jr. immediatly
80: care to revisit that statement? =)
Izturis, you dick!
OK, I am out of the prediction business for good.
What was that about not giving up home runs?
damn!
Well, there goes the no-hitter…. (am I not the first to post that?
)
What?? Izturis???
I don’t mind him giving up the occasional home run. As long as he doesn’t, you know, walk people first.
Or give them up in bunches like they were bananas, I guess.
Sexson’s AB is looking huge now…
Hi, I’m Mr. Regression to the Mean. Enjoy the game!
Boy this weaver guy is good.
location, location, location and I’m not talking about real estate…
I can fix it.
See, you didn’t miss anything, Derek!
Geez, he went from Hyde Weaver to Jekyll Weaver awful fast.
Wow, the bullpen already.
Already thinking about going to the bullpen.. smart move for once.
Maybe the Sheriff can pitch.
The Sheriff! Back in uniform!
wow, fishiam with one of the worst calls yet
his last start he gave up a couple of runs early and then what, ended up pitching 8 innings that game? I just hope he’s ok… because those last couple of pitches don’t look like they had much movement to ‘em
Jekyll/Hyde…Or is it the other way around?
Oh no, it’s the Sheriff
Remember when we had the Good Freddie (Garcia) and the Bad Freddie?
Back after an extended absence – the Bad Jeff!
I blame DMZ.
60… I believe the appropriate word is “suckers!”
Does anybody have the number of men left on base by each batter? I would like to see how many men Richie has stranded this year…
Come on, maybe Weaver can be “injured.” Shoulder tendinitis. A charley horse. Yellow fever. Anything.
Maybe Weaver needs to go back on the “DL”, for his “medical issue”.
Maybe he has a blister on his finger or something.
85 – I’ll give Beltre plenty of mulligans. You just need to be aggressive in run-producing situatioins. Thats why i dont get why everyones mad at Sexson’s approach, he got a fastball down the middle and, because he stinks, flew out.
Oh, and I hate Weaver so much.
Ah, what a fine evening for a complete mound meltdown.
Maybe Weaver should try and pick one of these guys off.
Maybe we can spike his weed so he’ll fail his drug test.
Let’s all prey Weaver gets hurt so we can bring back up Feierabend?? How about Weaver just pitches his average game that he can instead of us getting smoked with a rookie on the mound.
What a difference a night makes…
Rowland spells relief!
We need Al Reyes right now!
Crap. My first post from a new MacBook and it’s got to be crap. Sheesh, way to take the fun out of a new toy Weaver…
“You can still get out of [3 on base] with a double play ball.”
You can also get out of it by removing the sucky pitcher on the mound.
Weaver has been good overall after coming off the DL. Meltdowns happen to everyone, give him a break. Its the manager’s job to minimize the damage by pulling him out at the appropriate time.
Can Adam Jones pitch?
Nice play by Beltre.
Good job advoiding the bat Beltre.
Please walk Vlad
Relax guys! This is all a part of Weaver’s master plan to get Vlad to ground into a double play.
Beltre makes another great play!
Ok Weaver… 4 pitches 3 feet outside are better than one down the zone here….
If the tracker is adding 3 mph to pitches tonight, Weaver is struggling to hit 90 mph…
Of course Adam Jones can pitch.
If I was still driving to see this game, I’d turn around.
No, you don’t PRAY a player gets hurt. That’s cheesy and just wrong. You hope someone in Mariners management — ANYBODY — sees the light, and makes a decision in the best interest of the team and the organization.
Oh shit>>>>
I don’t care even if it is the M’s. Vlad is my man-crush.
Weaver has pitched very well lately. You knew sooner or later he was gonna have a bad start. and the angels are leading the AL West for a reason. If you don’t think we can score four runs in the next 8 innings then I suggest you start watching a new team
Whew. I don’t know if I would’ve pitched to Vlad, but I guess it worked out.
Now the offense needs to wake up.
139… I’m not praying, in fact I would never wish such a thing would happen to Mr. Weaver.
The Weaver bashers need to STFU. Thanks.
Thanks for missing that mistake right to Beltre Vlad. Hope that is all for Weaver, his location is awful right now.
145… or what?
[driving and stoned] People on ‘ludes should not drive.
Hey, at least we got back to back something….ground outs.
Hey look Lopez grounded out to second.
Imagine that.
139- The best interest of the team is a healthy rested Weaver pitching like he has since his stint on the DL, we have no other options at SP. We don’t have 5 good options now, losing any one of them can only hurt us now.
1-2-3 quick inning is not the way to respond after your pitcher throws 40+
at least take some pitches, take a lot of time at the place, etc. Assuming Weaver comes back out, at least consider trying to help him out.
Maybe we could trade for [url=http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/ap_police_cocaine_found_at_becks_house_on_the_day_he_died/]Rod Beck[/url].
147, or Lackeys severe under bite is going to haunt you in your sleep.
Well, that didn’t work.
Will http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/ap_police_cocaine_found_at_becks_house_on_the_day_he_died/ work?
155 – Too early
I think the best thing for this team is Weaver on the bus for West Tennessee.
157- Who would pitch instead?
It’s all because Weaver didn’t shave his head like the rest of the team did.
Can we cut Weaver some slack? For crissakes he’s been one of our better starters since he came off the DL. Even Johan Santana gets knocked around from time to time, and the angels have made more then a couple of pitchers not look so good.
I think we can score 4 runs. I also think the Angels can score 6 more.
So, just thought I’d drop in to see how the game was going! Wow! Team’s doing great, huh? That Angels pitcher really sucks.
Oh. Wait. It’s April Weaver. What a treat that is.
FYI, the aforementioned bus ticket – leaving tomorrow morning – would be $204. Who wants to chip in?
141 – I guess we should all start watching another team. In case you hadn’t noticed, we’re facing a rather good pitcher tonight.
Gameday is a lot of fun tonight. They have the right batter, but apparently he just hit another two-run homerun instead of grounding out.
At this point in this season, if you decided to DFA/drop one of the SPs, which would it be – Weaver or Ramirez?
i would dfa ramirez
163: knock yourself out
158… what about Willie Bloomquist? He’s a Fan Favorite!
If you are destined to get blown out why not pick a night when Putz isn’t available? We are four down, there is still time.
Raul could pitch.
164 – We were one Richie basehit (an oxymoron I know) from being right there with em. I understand lackey is a rather good pitcher, but this is the major leagues and four runs in 7 innings is not that big a deficit
Time for a Guillen Funk Blast
We got us a (not so) lean, (not so) mean (almost entirely) singles-hitting machine!
Ichiro has a nasty curve.
174 at least he gets on…what is seriously up with all this VIDRO bashing?
1. Weaver has given up FIFTEEN earned runs in his last 24 innings, and is 0-3, working on 0-4. So I have no idea where this “he’s been good lately” stuff is coming from.
2. Stop telling people to STFU everytime they criticize a player. Christ. PLEASE go to the official site, you will love it there, I promise.
What’s up with all these people complaining about VIDRO bashing?
Sweet.
176: not a bash, merely a statement of reality.
@178
[The caps lock key is located on the left and right side of your keyboard.]
176: Vidro is that rare combination of no speed and no power. It’s hard to argue that this is good for a ballclub, but go for it if you’d like.
DMZ, while you were gone a lot of new people came around and began demanding that we all cheer immensely for every single player and never mention ways to improve the team. If we don’t, we’re now required to “STFU.”
Er, 174, not 176
177, relax, you will feel better
Swell. Another golden opportunity – RISP, one out – and thhhppft. Whatever became of our highly-touted team avg w/RISP? (I know, regression…)
#177
Actually, I am pretty sure myself and others have been refering to Weavers performance AFTER COMING OFF THE DL. Basically in 9 starts, Weaver had one horrible meltdown, but the rest were very respectable. (didnt give up more than 3 runs per start) So yeah, maybe its not Cy Young good, but its definitely not horrible.
If you want to look at the last 3-4 outings, Felix has been just as bad.
And last of all, maybe you should stop telling people to STFU everytime they tell you to STFU everytime you criticize a player.
177 – in his last nine starts he’s given up 3 or more ER 3 times, and two of those were only 3. in those other six starts the most runs he has given up is 1. Thats called being good lately. You took the stats and twisted em to prove your point, but take out his one 7 run blowup to Detroit (who i hear is having a good year) and hes given up 11 ER in his last 53 ip. Thats pretty darned good
Remember earlier today, when comments were turned off leading up to the trade deadline?
The P-I forums are that way. —–>
183, it’s not quite that simple. It’s just annoying having to skip 90% of the posts because most of the posts are regurgitation of how Dave feels about Vidro, Raul, etc. Believe me, we all get it that Vidro can’t hit for power and Raul isn’t a good player. The new people came to the USSMariner for insightful and intelligent commentary on the Mariners. So maybe if you bring something new to the table you won’t hear a STFU. Same goes for you John in LA.
oh and John in LA – I thought you were better then to use record as measurement of a pitcher. 8 ip 1 er and the loss vs. toronto and 7.1 and 3 er vs. oak is the offenses fault, not his. He has pitched as good as any of our starting pitchers since his dl trip
Dude, that was my skull! I’m soooo wasted!
When was the last time the Mariners tried to put a tag on a base-stealer? That was the first -throw- I’ve seen in awhile, and even that was cut-off.
[EXPLETIVE] Weaver!
Weaver’s post-DL line is pretty sweet: 58 IP, 54 H, 14 BB, 31 K, 4 HR, for a 2-3 record and a 2.79 ERA. Included two complete games. Even I wouldn’t argue he hadn’t been effective then.
*LOG ON*
hey guys, sorry I’m late.
How’s the game going?
ooooohhhhhh
*LOG OFF*
Bad Weaver tonight…can I say that without being told to STFU?
187 – The claim was that Weaver has been good lately. I never said anything about since the DL, if you want to say that, I don’t have a problem with it. But if he is reverting to bad form, the meltdown started three and half games ago in Detroit, which was my point.
I guess you could say he was good the lately before last.
And I never told anyone to shut up. I have, however, been told to shut up and how to be the right kind of fan too many times lately.
188 – You said lately, I looked up his last few starts. If you want to say lately means nine starts, you feel free.
I’m not sure which is less pleasant thus far this evening – the snarkiness here on the blog or the game development through the top of the 4th. What is with all the rah-rah rooters here all of a sudden defending the seriously-underperforming (in some cases, merely performing to expectation) veterans?
STFU=State The Freaking Unarguable?
197, of course, the STFUs were just for the overreacting posters saying he should go on the DL or to the minors.
Oh, good… they’ve “found something” with Raul.
Oh great, Weaver is back.
Weaver has been one reason why the Ms have been able to remain in the chase. I’m not sure how much he can be counted upon down the stretch but I’ll take what he’s given the Ms.
Weaver has pitched quite well post-DL, but that doesn’t give him a free pass from criticism. This is a huge series, and more frustrating than Weaver’s performance tonight is our offensive ineptitude – we’ve had a few big chances against a terrific pitcher and haven’t capitalized. I just don’t see us mounting a comeback from a 6-0 deficit. Let’s just all hope for a big-time Happy Felix Day tomorrow.
191 – Do you really think it’s unreasonable that when someone says “Weaver pitched well lately”… that it is ridiculous for me to point out that he has a 6.25 ERA and is 0-3 over his last four games?
Ideal stat quotes? No. Ridiculous response? Of course not.
And I never said anything about his performance since the DL, I was responding to “lately”.
195 – Neither would I.
198 – Lately we’ll say means… five starts. ER in last 5:
1, 1, 7, 1, 3 (the two before those? 0, and 1) so yes he got beat up by detroit but who hasn’t. Even with that in there, LATELY he has been pretty good
Ok. Swinging at the first pitch isn’t working. Are you not supposed to change up your plan of attack the second time up?
Weaver was crap at the start of the season, went on the DL, pitched ok, and is crap tonight. We he be crap again? Yeah he will be. Every time from here on out, we have no reason to expect quality. If we get it, fine. But I haven’t seen anything from him this year that gives me any confidence whatsoever. He has no command of his pitches, and is throwing meatballs. Yup, we’ve seen this before.
207 – Really? You want to quibble about the definition of lately so that you can complain about people who criticize Weaver?
Let them complain. You defend his post DL performance, you are right. Let me point out his last 25 innings, I am right.
Just please stop telling people not to criticize players, it’s unnecessary.
There is room for criticism and praise… and no one yelled at you for praising.
http://ussmariner.com/comment-guidelines/
Go. Read. Now.
Does anyone have a better suggestion/option then starting Weaver every 5th day?
If not we could probably stop using every 5th game blog to bitch/moan/whine about him.
206 – the point is, having arguments/discussions is good, but maybe you should give somebody elses opinion a little more thought before you start bashing them. Your definition of “lately” may be his last 3 starts, while for others it may mean 5 or 6 starts. If you had given it a little more thought, you may realize that some of the people saying “Weaver has been effective as of late” are referring to more starts than what you were thinking.
In Weaver’s defense, The M’s are spotting the Angels at least 12 outs tonight.
Can we get this game over quickly so we can begin lots of pointless speculation about offseason trades?
I would like to DFA JeffS, please.
With a little luck, we might be able to get back into this offensively. Go M’s.
Weaver is going to have bad outings, it’s a given, but he also is going to have good one’s as we have witnessed since his return from the DL. I think the Angel’s are a bad matchup for him and he may have been pressing to hard tonight.
If McLaren is going to run him out there every five days, folks here are going to comment. Why would it be otherwise? Should we play nice — just to avoid offending the sensitivities of some people lurking in these parts? I think not.
As for who should be pitching Weaver’s starts instead, well, haven’t we had enough rosterbation?
well i just read ADAM JONES ISN’T GOING TO BE CALLED UP. theres some news i wasnt happy to read..
This shit is killing me.
Lost in that event with Betancourt: He took two strikes, then chased a horrible pitch in the name of ‘protecting the plate’. Not a good approach if you can’t lay off those pitches.
210 – I never said we couldn’t critisize, Lord knows I critisize a ton of mariners, Weaver included. My point was that everyone wants him DFA’d from this start but he has really been one of our most effective pitchers, if not LATELY, then at least since he came off the DL. I never once said that hes above criticism, and I never once said STFU to anyone, if you can find where I said that by all means do it. You are also the one who put a definition to lately, as you said 24 innings AFTER i posted that. I am not tryin to make anyone think that Weaver is a good pitcher by any stretch, but it can’t be denied that taking out his PRE DL starts he has kept the team in the game in just about every other start.
219- Got a source article on that?
Someone who understands Baseball better than I do tell me, why Betencourt swung at that pitch?
That’s what I look for in a pitcher: keeping the team in the game every other start.
213 – I don’t care how much you like Weaver. Go for it. Praise him to high heaven. Like Raul, I don’t care. Heck, there are people here who post almost nothing but “MYTURBOLOVER!!!!!!!” and I don’t say anything.
My response was to people telling others to shut up with their criticism.
Do you see why that’s different?
219 — Where?
224– You see a fastball at eye level. Bentancourt sees a pinata.
223 –
M’s website
The link:
http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070731&content_id=2121046&vkey=news_sea&fext=.jsp&c_id=sea
224- Lackey has some nasty stuff and Yuni was protecting the plate. No one ever said he was great at it.
From the Adam Jones article.
“McLaren doesn’t want to risk losing team chemistry now, especially with the team in the midst of a crucial series against the division-leading Angels. Jones, who turns 22 years old on Wednesday, will have to wait a little longer.”
Team chemistry. That explains it.
225 – haha yes a nice play on words
“We know when we need him, he’s going to be there, and he’s going to be ready,” McLaren said. “In the meantime, the mix we’ve got going now is playing well, and that’s how we look at it.”
Mac’s just saying that because he has to. He cannot afford to have the players disrespect him. But Baker said that Bavasi has told McLaren that Jones will indeed be called up, and basically that team chemistry is no as important as winning games.
John, it’s time to move on now. Go M’s.
222 – You said:
“Weaver has pitched very well lately. You knew sooner or later he was gonna have a bad start. and the angels are leading the AL West for a reason. If you don’t think we can score four runs in the next 8 innings then I suggest you start watching a new team”
That’s fine. Can you not see why I might count three games ago in Detroit as the “bad start” you mention? Can you not see why my lately might be more skewed towards lately than yours?
Can you not just say “Well, true, but he’s been good since the DL.” To which I would say “You’re right, he sure has. But lately he seems to have regressed.”
Why can’t we have that exchange?
And I know you didn’t say this:
“The Weaver bashers need to STFU. Thanks.”
That was someone else. I thought that was clear.
That’s it — McLaren is officialy an imbecile. Ibanez has been doing well? Come on, the man has stunk it up post-AS. At least take the time to look at the numbers before you open your damn mouth, McLaren!
I like bashing Weaver! It’s fun! Now that Reitsma’s gone I can focus all my attention on Weaver & Horacio.
Oh lordy. There you go again, JeffS. Why do you feel it’s incumbent on you to TELL other people how to behave? John can drop it whenever he pleases.
If I wanted to be exposed to this level of condescension and authoritarianism, I’d, well, no. I wouldn’t want to.
Team Chemistry, why of course! Because can’t we all see Ral, Ichiro, and Jose hitting up Carl’s Jr. after the game to chat it up and talk about what they are going to do on their days off?
What a joke of an excuse!
“Outfield trio playing well, so talk of prospect’s callup is tabled”. Hahahahahahaha! Oh lord, stop it. What is this, Bizarro World? Maybe “The outfield duo of Ichiro and Guillen are playing well”. Give us all a mother[expletive] break.
More: “Manager John McLaren doesn’t believe there should be any doubt with the Mariners’ combination of Raul Ibanez, Ichiro Suzuki and Jose Guillen, from left to right field.”
What, Ibanez is golden since his Web Gem™ yesterday? Well, manager John McLaren is a major-league fool. What utter nonsense.
Nice Throw Jo!
Welcome back Bad Weaver. We missed you.
7-0 on a homer
HamNast: No no, you misunderstand! Sometimes in the clubhouse, the active roster experiments with noxious chemicals that they then use to coat the bench in the visitors’ dugout, producing nausea and dizziness. This is the fabled Team Chemistry that we must preserve.
How about 8 runs in the next 4 innings.
That ‘No room for Jones’ article is a kick in the crotch.
OPS in July:
Ibanez: .491
Ichiro: .685
Guillen: .923
Ichiro’s been pedestrian, Ibanez has been horrible.
McLaren: “The mix we’ve got now is playing well”
Yech.
The encouraging thing about that article re:Jones, was it implied perhaps that things might be different after this series.
At least that’s how I choose to see it. The alternative is too depressing.
That would also explain his claim that the team is playing well. It is if you are looking at the games after the losing streak.
Well, needless to say living in Alabama (my whole life) I don’t really hear too much about the day to day goings on, so how is Adam Jones’ level of satisfaction with the club? I’m sure he’s got to be tired of watching Raul flop around in the field and at the plate and thinking he could do better. Wouldn’t he have to take that as a slap in the face?
236 – I apologize for being vague in my post, saying lately instead of defining it. The negativity sometimes wears on me, especially when its not backed up (Weaver for all his faults has been effective at the least post DL) whereas the Raul and Richie negativity is warrented. and I actually had been meaning to ask you if you ever followed up on direct tv telling you that the mariners game wasn’t on the other day?
“Team Chemistry” = we can’t hurt our veterans’ feelings by playing a rook ahead of one of them
From that article:
In the meantime, Ibanez, Guillen and Ichiro have held their own in the outfield. Combined, they have a.294 batting average. Ibanez is second on the team with 24 two-out RBIs, Ichiro is third (22) and Guillen is fifth (16).
Ibanez and Guillen are second and third with eight and seven game-winning RBIs, respectively. To cap it all off, Ichiro’s .347 average is second best in the American League.
Also, Ibanez leads the team in RBIs from an outfielder whose last name starts with “I”.
Who is this guy writing this crap?
Ibanez has a bobblehead night coming. So of course he’s playing well.
Maybe in protest you guys can all throw your Raul Bobbleheads onto the field on his bobblehead night, or just sell them on eBay.
Is there a section in either the Times or P-I just for sports-related letters to the editor? As I recall, there may be one in the Sunday section…
Someone should do a study to see if rally fries work as promised.
Hey….if it ain’t broke don’t’ fix it.
If the season ended today, the Ms aren’t in the playoffs. After tonight, they’re staring at a 4 game deficit within their division which on paper looks insurmountable.
They are only a game out of the WC though. I guess that’s the “it’s not broke” part for the Ms?
252 – They really say combined Ich and Raul are batting .292? Thats the biggest stretch of a stat I have ever seen in my life
252 Combined batting average? I didn’t know that was a good way to measure how well your outfield was doing? So I guess Ibanez is leeching off of Ichiro’s average. That Ichiro is such a generous guy!
In the spirit of Weaver-bashing, you all really must see his mom on the FSN Weaver “Before the Bigs.”
Isn’t there a testing program in place for team chemistry? Or maybe the tests aren’t reliable yet?
The dude on Big Brother 8 wears a t-shirt that says “Define Girlfriend”.
I’d ask McLaren to “Define ‘ain’t broke’”
In the spirit of Weaver-bashing, you all really must see his mom on the FSN Weaver “Before the Bigs.”
Is she hot?
260, what’s going on with his mom?
Yeah, it’s the teams website. Take that story with a grain of salt. Think of it as Bill Kreuger giving his two cents about AJ.
Ichiro’s letting Ibanez borrow some of his batting average in exchange for taking the outfield plays that Ibanez should be allowed to dive for.
Not to praise Weaver anymore than I already have (tongue in cheek), but he would have to be throwing a shutout right now to be in this game. Man our offense is just terrible sometimes
I’m not a chemistry major.
– Bob Whitsitt, when he was GM of the Jailblazers
Man, i was hoping for the sweep.
Lets be optimistic, the M’s still have 3 innings to rally.
250, Paseman – Sorry, had to jump in the deep end of the pool and hold my breath for an inning. I’m the one not being clear, I think. You using lately your way is fine. We can both be lately.
Weaver and Putz have an average ERA of 3.37.
I can’t find Combined Batting Average on Fangraphs or ESPN. Anywhere. For anyone. I must be looking in the wrong place.
Raul Ibanez and Hank Aaron have hit a combined 899 home runs.
At least when the Mariners lose the guys in the clubhouse got along great doing it. thats a small consolation, right?
273
This changes everything. Raul hasn’t lost his stroke after all
I’m telling you this new concept of combining and sharing batting averages has given me a new outlook to this team. Sexson combined with Broussards average is back up to .244! Wow!
O’Flaherty comes from Walla Walla. First big leaguer from The Town So Nice They Named It Twice?
Hey, John in L.A.:
Can you show me where your name is in the masthead of this site? I can’t seem to find it…
Hey since everyone is having so much fun with this: who woulda been happy to know that when August rolled around, combined, our LF and DH have 9 homeruns?
Oh, I just realized!
Hank Aaron and John in L.A. have hit a combined 755 home runs.
Awesome. I rule.
And John in L.A., while you’re at it, I’m also having trouble locating the section of the commenting guidelines where it says:
Only John in L.A. is allowed to comment on the comments, everyone else STFU.
Please help!
Can O’Flaherty really dial it up to 93-94 mph?
JiLA: Don’t forget that you and Steve Bartman ruined one team’s World Series chances, though.
IS there any way to convert triple-A numbers to big league numbers? I would like to calculate how many adam jones would have here if he played rather than Ibanez.
I hit a homer in little league (yes, only one, I had a total of 1 hit(s)). That brings Hank and I up to 756.
Weird. People walk up to me all the time and are like “Hey, I want a piece of this action!”
TUrns out all they wanted was tickets to the game!
Lauren and Willie Bloomquist combine to be the grittiest forum poster ever.
2 innings to rally.
271 – Not sure how you get that value for average ERA – you can’t just add together and divide by two, yhou have to weight by innings pitched. As of this moment, Weaver’s pitched 84 innings and given up 59 ER (=ERA of 6.32), Putz has pitched 50.1 innings and given up 5 ER (-era OF 0.89). Weighted, properly, the Weaver-Putz ERA is 4.30.
The only thing I miss about the last two years that is Mariners related is how many less trolls were on this website.
Bram maybe you missed the post where John was trying to drop it and apologize, let it go.
Lets combine Raul and Richie that way they can only suck in one lineup spot instead of two
There was just a commercial on the radio, quote “Raul Ibanez, what a reliable hitter for the Mariners. That young man…”
Thats funnier than the email from the Cardinals.
284 That’s easy. Just take all of Ibanez offensive stats and multiply times 2!
Niiiice. I still remember that game from earlier this year that blew up on us after whoever we were playing bunted twice to get on base.
293 Oh except for HRs, you need to multiply times 4 for that.
maybe John in LA and Jeff S can start ussstfu.com and let the rest of “enjoy” the game/posts
283 – Oh, wait, that’s true. I combined suck. I don’t know what I was combined thinking.
John in LA: did you ever follow up with Direct TV (sorry I know i asked earlier) but i really wanna know how they could tell you they didnt have a game that day as it was going on.
and missed it completely, apparently! what the heck happened? did he just fall apart in the 2nd?
Lauren… someday can you explain to me how I became the guy everyone thinks told people to STFU? Because I have no idea how that happened.
and missed it completely, apparently! what the heck happened? did he just fall apart in the 2nd?
Meatballs and walks. Two great tastes that go great together.
man, Beltre wants that, swung at 2 sraight crappy pitches.
FYI — You’ll know what I mean when you see Weaver’s mom. p.s. John in LA is good with me as we are both sworn enemies of the dark lords who set the geo. boundaries for Extra Innings…
Still waiting for Richie to find his BP stroke. C’mon, how much of a difference can there be between the BP pitcher and Lackey? It’s only about 30 MPH and lots of movement.
On a related note, I once hit 50 HRs with Mickey Tettleton on Sega Genesis Baseball’s HR derby, but that didn’t translate to Tettleton having a 100+ HR season in ‘93.
It boggles the mind. It really does.
#290:
Troll, huh?
Quick: name the predecessor to this site. Here’s a giant hint: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://baseball116.com
I took some time off from USSM to raise my kids and that makes me a troll?
Self-appointed arbiters are exactly what I’m objecting to. Troll my ass.
As good as Beltre’s been lately, tonight he has just sucked all the wind out of our offense’s sails. Ugh.
Beltre thinks he’s has to hit a HR every AB now that he’s batting 4th.
298 – Sorry, Paseman, missed that. There was no follow-up, as I have no follow-through. They believed I was crazy for thinking the Mariners were playing, I believe I was crazy for thinking I had any chance of convincing them otherwise.
I think my problem was that back in the day, DirecTV could circumvent blackout malfunctions (and there used to be a lot of them) by fiddling with your account address. I don’t think they can do that anymore, so I was fighting a lost cause from the beginning.
Bram, we have yet quote Dave verbatim and call it our own, therefore we are trolls.
Broken bat homer? Good grief . . .
Is there any chance we could get back to talking about the game rather than complaining about the comments of other posters, either real or imagined?
Ugh, there isn’t a player I hate to see doing well more than Gary freakin’ Matthews.
What? Raul not reaching a ball in left field?
Most amazing tidbit of the night: Angels bats have killed us, yet Vlad is 0-for-5. I don’t recall such a thing ever happening.
We should have traded for Dotel…
another nice route by ibanez, good thing he’s not a wr for the seahawks
Sorry to hear that JiLA… for as expensive as that is you would think they could show everything. I have MLB.tv for spring and fall (I go to school in Texas) and I’ve never had any problems. Might look into that
I thought for a minute we might get some excitement with Lackey throwing behind/at Guillen. That would have been cool, given the history.
Plus, with the resulting suspensions, we probably would have called up Adam Jones.
Lowe doesn’t look to impressive.
hows his velocity? gameday says 94 but i know thats wrong
The thing I miss most about USSM circa 2003 is that there weren’t a bunch of vigilantes telling everyone else to STFU. DMZ and Jason and Dave are the editors of this site. They set the rules, not us. Jeez, what happened? This used to be such a democratic place.
scoring 9 runs off F-Rod would be a lot of fun.
I’m just saying.
bram: I know I should just give up on this but argh! Who’s telling anyone else to shut up except JeffS?
319 – Here’s what I’d like to see: Lackey nails Guillen with a fastball up and in, and Guillen from home plate throws his bat at Lackey and nails him in the leg.
I think Dave said to subtract 3 last night from the gameday velocity.
321 – FSN had one pitch at 97, and I know he can’t be there yet. Who knows with these radar reads. Anyone else notice that the Angels have to be the whitest team in baseball?
Is there 3 other hitters in baseball Lackey would rather face now then Ral, Sexson, Joh? I doubt it.
Ok sorry Bram, I apologize for calling you a troll.
After reading the back and forth that seemed completely pointless but kept going, then seeing one of the people involved trying to put it to an end, followed up by 2 posts from one poster seeming to prod that guy into a new argument, I over-reacted and jumped to conclusions.
Owwww.
9 runs against F-rod with 2 outs?
Hey wait, msb, isn’t it K-rod? Or were you attempting to deny him strikeouts?
327- They aren’t even close to being the whitest team in baseball. Look again at their starting lineup.
Let’s all drop the BS and hope tomorrow is a happy Felix day
Pase: what about Vlad, Gary Matthews, and Garrett Anderson?
Do you guys think if we staged some kind of rally complete with picket signs outside safeco for a week calling for Sexson to be relieved of duty it would make a difference?
If I have to use the silly “-Rod” nickname, I prefer F-Rod, because then I can make the F stand for whatever I choose.
Sorry I didn’t think everyone would take me literally. I didn’t mean that they have only white players, but I guess after watching our team, every other team seems to have a bunch. Kotchman, Willits, Brown, Mathis, McPhereson when healthy, Napoli. Its much more then us
The Rockies starting 9 today consisted of Willy Taveras and 8 white guys.
329 apology accepted
335, probably not. The FO still seems to think the 2nd half tear is still on its way. With it now being August 1st it’s definitely overdue for Ben to get time against righties.
after that performance, I think Jeff owes his team– at the very least, he has to take Jered out for some bad clams tomorrow afternoon.
so, having missed the first 7+ innings… were the Mariner bats indeed ’stifled’ by Lackey, or where they just hitting like normal?
anyone think mark hendrickson adds to his poster image tomorrow night ?
http://www.geocities.com/mjlove9697/love9697/9697ClippersLanceHendrickson.jpg
342 – Same story as always… Ich and Vidro got some hits, our middle line-up tried too hard, and then you can guess what happened with the raul, richie, kenji, yuni, lopez poo poo platter
First of all, Hi.
Second of all, I don’t like to be Debbie Downer, or Mr. Negative, or Bring the house down Bobby, or Moral Lowerer Larry. But god F’n Damnit. Richie. I hate you. I can’t watch a game anymore without having to think of Richie f’n Sexon coming up to the plate. For instance. “Sweet two on, no outs…. oh… shit… Richies coming up. F-.”
No Richie didn’t ruin the game by himself, but just from the complete and total suckage that he brings to the plate every single god damn time he steps up, my smile or good spirits just friggen.. I don’t know, i’m just not happy anymore.
No I didn’t expect him to jack a two run homer in the ninth (not like it wouldn’t be like him to do so) tonight, but I just hate the fact that you know a DP is inevitable. Theres three options. Strikeout, DP, Flyout.
and if hes lucky, homer in the 8th in a blowout.
F you Richie.
Yes, my dissapointment in Richie has transcended hating his baseball playing. I now hate him as a person too. A man would realize he is killing his team’s chances to win and step down and let someone else try to make a difference.
345, slopping brows once again illuminate the intrawebs
per Richie (345, 346, others)…
It’s his livelihood and passion. You can’t expect him to voluntarily step down. It’s the role of management to sit him on the bench.
per tonite’s game…
Back to back nights of Escobar and Lackey is really rather tough pitching to draw. To get a split so far is really not so bad, especially with Felix pitching tomorrow.
I am tired of Weaver’s up and down play. Could we possibly platoon the fifth rotation spot or even cut it down to four? When was the last time a team kept a 4 pitcher staff and were they succesful?
So, I know that logically, there isn’t much that can be done about Sexson other than benching him. I mean, if the team is going to pay him $14 million, it may as well pay him to actually be on the team. However, his play of late has made me think that maybe his roster spot is more valuable than him. I wouldn’t mind if he got DFA’d at this point.
I can’t believe it…Nellie on KJR apparently was so pissed off at Richie making two outs on the first pitch tonight that even HE finally admitted that AJ might be considered “an option”.
Now I know FOR SURE the world must be coming to an end!
Since the thread is dead…
Bram… I have no idea what happened here. If you could, would you please, sincerely, tell me why you attacked me? Were you perhaps confusing me with someone else? I am really confused.
I never told anyone not to post anything they wanted to post. The only thing I objected to was someone telling me and others to “STFU”.
I said: “I don’t care how much you like Weaver. Go for it. Praise him to high heaven. Like Raul, I don’t care. Heck, there are people here who post almost nothing but “MYTURBOLOVER!!!!!!!” and I don’t say anything.”
One poster has told me (and others) to shut the ***k up multiple times over the last week.
You are mad that I object to that?
Because you seem to be really mad about people telling others to STFU… which was what I was upset about.
So why post multiple posts abusing me? Did you confuse me with someone else? I didn’t tell anyone to shut up, ever.
So why are you attacking me? Just a misunderstanding?
Late to the party, since I spent a dismal night at the park watching us suck.
Regarding the whole “Weaver’s been good lately” meme, have you looked at who he’s faced?
Since coming off the DL, he’s pitched 10 games, gone six or more innings in only half of them, been shelled twice, roughed up two other games, and pitched four good games, including one CG Shutout. The teams he’s faced are:
Oakland (13th in the AL in RS) twice, 0-1, only went 4 innings in one game, gave up 2 dingers and three walks in the other.
Toronto (11th in the AL in RS) twice, 0-1, two decent games
Detroit (1st in the AL in RS) once, 0-1, shelled
Boston (4th in AL in RS) once, 1-0, didn’t go 6 IP, but okay game.
Angels (5th in AL in RS) once, 0-1, shelled.
Pittsburgh (15th in NL in RS) once, 1-0, CG SHO.
Cubs (8th in NL in RS) once, NoDec, hit hard
Padres (13th in NL in RS) once, NoDec, first start off the DL, only 4 IP.
Dominating the Pirates, and being okay (sort of) against the Blue Jays, A’s and Padres is not exactly Cy Young material. Of the ten games he’s pitched, six have been against teams in the bottom half of their league offensively, and he’s only turned in good games in three of those. When he’s faced teams in the top half offensively, he get’s shelled 50% of the time, and the team is 1-3 in those games.
We’ve seen worse, but he hasn’t been some sort of resurgent phenom since coming off the DL. He’s been a pitcher who can turn in good games against bad teams half the time and his helpless against good teams. Sounds like a #5 to me.
Well, we do need one of those…
In the lineups thing you went “Jones still not here”. Why the hell is everybody so damn certain that he’s going to change our offense drastically?
In the lineups thing you went “Jones still not here”. Why the hell is everybody so damn certain that he’s going to change our offense drastically?
seriously guys, weaver cant go
we need weaver because he is a good clubhouse guy – he’s good for team chemistry
maybe he can shift to the bullpen.
same thing for vidro (except he can’t go to the pen)
Also
Adam Jones will not come to the majors this year
GET THIS IN YOUR HEADS!!!!!
OUR MANAGEMENT DOESN’T GET IT
although its 1:00AM and i know the thread is dead…
348- I know its richies livelihood and passion, I wouldn’t step down in his position either. but damn. somebody with some authority has gotta say ‘hey, you suck brother.’ now im not numbers cruncher captain or anything, but everytime broussard comes to the plate i think ‘ok ben, drop one on em’ or ‘ok broussard, jack one right now cause WE NEED IT’. when richies up i think, ‘fuck’
maybe this is another shaun alexander mo morris deal where ‘mo really cant provide more than shaun can as much as we think he can’ but damn.
TRY
PLEASE
It’s not that it would be drastically better. It’s that it would be a little better, with potential for a lot better. A definite improvement you can make with an internal move should be automatic, and it’s frustrating that it’s not.
I know this thread is dead and no one will read my thoughts here, but here they are. This was a quirky game thread. The game itself was lousy, and a number of bickering comments were off-putting. But when reference went to things written on the “official site” and posters added spontaneous comments about various “combined stats” it was totally hilarious. Thanks, everyone.
354- It’s not so much his offensive potential (although if you’re hitting .340 in the minors there’s a pretty good chance you’re not going to be hitting .200 in the majors *cough* Richie) but rather his defensive additions. Raul is hobbling out in left, he’s the second worst outfielder in baseball and left field in particular is a vital position in Safeco due to the way the stadium is designed.
Without question, AJ’s defensive skills would be a huge improvement and that would save us a lot of runs over time, even if his bat is only average.
From USA Today:
“Seattle had pulled to within three games of the division lead with a four-game win streak, but stranded seven runners on Tuesday while managing only seven hits to suffer its third shutout in 12 games.”
What do you expect when you have a HUGE hole in your lineup with Ibanez, Sexson and Johjima? Where the heck is Adam Jones?
It is a bummer to see such hot tempers here and at the ballpark lately. The insulting thing for me is the way McLaren and Bavasi talk down to us fans like we know nothing. I am tired of McLaren saying he has a little Lou in him also. If he did, he would be ranting and raving for a change in LF for OFFENSIVE reasons alone.
How do I know this? Go back to 2001 when Lou wanted Al Martin replaced with a more accomplished offensive player.
OBP – SLG – OPS+
330 – 382 – 94
306 – 389 – 88
Can you guess which one is Ibanez 2007 and which one is Martin 2001? Martin is the top one. If he had hit 3rd all year in 2001 he would have had 100 RBI’s too.
I’m tired of hearing how Ibanez is still producing runs. He is not. He must go now if we have any chance of winning, but he is here to stay. Why? Because McLaren thinks all of our outfielders have been very productive. Production like Ibanez’ would get a normal person fired.
Question for all you baseball geniuses… If you’re Bavasi…would you pick up Jose Cruz Jr. and put him in AAA as insurance for Jones/Ibañez? I mean…he’s a switch hitter, two years younger than Raul…had a dismal year just before being released… but why not give the guy a shot?
I guess you’d have to be smart enough to bring Jones in to play LF right? *sigh*
Long time Mariner fans have already been burned by Jose Cruz Jr. once. We held our breath over that guy for years. I would much rather that AAA slots be used trying to develop some younger talent.
The club should always be in the business of developing “insurance” outfielders – but hopefully ones with fewer miles on them.
Actually, I think the Athletics are the whitest team in baseball. By my count they have only six non-caucasians on the club, two of whom are American (though not white,) and three of whom, though Caribbean/Latin, display apparent European ancestry.
Long time Mariner fans have already been burned by Jose Cruz Jr. once.
Cruz put up a 268/315/541 line in 49 games for the Mariners at the age of 23. He didn’t do anything to Mariners fans. Paul Spoljaric and Mike Timlin did that.
But no, there is no reason in the world to bring him back.
Besides, nobody held their breath over Cruz for years. He was drafted #1 in 1995 (3rd overall) and arrived in the majors in 1997. He developed quickly with Seattle, they gave him away for crap, and then he never developed any more.
Arguably, Jose Cruz Jr. = poor man’s Mike Cameron (pop/speed) MINUS the defensive prowess.
So… you’re saying that Jose would be an improvement over Raul…
Don’t know as though I’d necessarily advocate for getting the Cruzer back, but he might be somewhat less stationary than Raul at least if you had to play him in left.
I dunno about that. I THINK I remember Cruz Jr. having a tough time with his routes running after balls. I used to watch the Blue Jays a little more frequently back then than I do now, and it struck me that he was still circling the ball in the outfield somewhat peculiarly. I don’t honestly ever know if some outfield coach took him in hand and taught him the Xs and Os of outfield defense.