Thank You Bill
Dave · July 31, 2007 at 1:28 pm · Filed Under Mariners
On behalf of the Mariner blogosphere, here’s the internet version of a standing ovation. Way to not give in to the pressure to make a bad move. We appreciate it.
Comments
USSM uses and recommends
yes especially for Al Reyes
WHOOOO!!!
Thanks Bill!
Amen, thank you, thank you, thank you. Now, call up AJ and start him in left field tonight.
I dunno, I was kinda hoping for that Adam Jones for Dontrelle Willis trade.
JUST.
KIDDING.
(Though Vidro & Sexson for XXX XXXXXX woulda been neat!)
Maybe they were holding AJ in AAA until after the deadline so that Bavasi could call him up and triumphantly say, “We may not have made a move but, in our view, we are adding a player that is better than any available through trade.”
At least, that’s what I’m hoping.
If the Balentien for Dotel rumor was true, I don’t know how we got out of this unscathed. Is Kyle Davies really better than Balentien?
Woooooohoooooo! Best trade deadline EVER! Way to go M’s.
Regarding Mateo, MLB Trade Rumors says:
“The Phillies are attempting to corner the market on scumbags.”
Nice.
Maybe Mateo couldn’t stand to be apart from Moyer…
Hey now, the Phils are just trying to put together a good one-two punch.
But in all seriousness, good job Bavasi!
MarinerDan: Yeah, wouldn’t that be nice? Hard to imagine it happening, but nice. I’d take Jones coming up without such an announcement, too.
After signing Mateo, the Phillies intend to follow up by signing Adam Jones (the other one). Then, they plan on merging their AAA affiliate into the Pennsylvania state penal system.
Trent: Ha! I had to laugh.
Hurray!
13.
HA! Good one.
Hooray for no aging, over priced players! No more trade baiting, and no more excuses let’s make some internal moves already!
Since its been said time and time again that Jones will get his shot after the deadline, here’s to hoping I see him play tonight.
So, Dave, what do you know about the infielder we got from the Phillies for Mateo, Jesus Merchan?
All I know is that he’s 26 and put up an .880 OPS (.330 BA, .404 OBP, 10 steals with more BB’s than K’s) at Double-A reading
before being called up to AAA recently…I’m sure he’s a not a top prospect but perhaps he’d be a better version
of Bloomquist (or Morse) in a year or two?
Thank you, Bill.
Now bring up Adam Jones and I can start watching games again.
Odd. Wasn’t a frequent criticism of Gillick that he preferred “nice guys” the soccer mom’s would like over good ballplayers who would win games?
The guy we got back is, well, interesting. A 26 year old AA SS (recently promoted to AAA). Seems to be a busted prospect. The Phuture Phillies blog thinks most of his recent success is an unsustainable BABIP.
But, better than what I thought we’d get.
At a glance at Baseball Cube, Merchan’s numbers suck every year until this year, and since he’s 26, there doesn’t seem to be a lot to be excited about.
Jesus Merchan is nothing. He’s an organizational player.
Argh, stupid cut-and-paste screwups.
Here’s the right Phuture Phillies link.
Dave/DMZ, how likely do you think it is that more trades will trickle in? Can I really breathe easy yet? I still feel suspicious. How did the Yankees not upgrade their bullpen? Why did the Mariners seem on the verge of making a deal? Something just doesn’t feel right, like it’s not really all finished yet.
What a relief. Big shout out to the front office.
I was secretly hoping to hear we had given away one of our “veteran bats” as a hint that Bavasi was going to make “the easiest decision in baseball.”
But otherwise, no news is definitely great news.
*I don’t know if you saw Jonah Keri’s chat on ESPN today, Dave, but he praised U.S.S. Mariner multiple times, and praised you, in particular, twice.
The M’s didn’t do anything – nothing will trickle in.
The Yankees will upgrade their bullpen by promoting Joba Chamberlain from Triple-A in the next week or so. They understand that promoting from within is better than making a foolish trade.
Woohoo! No stupid trade. I was worried about the Balentein for mediorce relief deal. Time to bring up AJ and see what he’s got.
Any word from our sometime Phillies correspondent Deanna about the Mateo move? I sense that she’ll just love it.
Seriously…this is me standing and clapping! Thank you, Bill.
Now that the Deadline has passed what are the chances that AJ gets called up in the next week?
Today is a good day, but we must remain vigilante.
After all, Matt Morris will clear waivers.
Um, isn’t Deanna moving to Japan?
Let me rephrase that — we must remain vigilant, or else one of us may have to become a vigilante to stop Bavasi.
Actually, Matt Morris was traded to Pittsburgh. Because clearly they’re an overpaid 5th starter away from winning it all. They’re easily the worst franchise in sports right now.
Pirates acquired RHP Matt Morris from the Giants for OF Rajai Davis and a player to be named.
We may FEEL like remaining ‘vigilante’, but we should probably just remain vigilant. It’s more legal that way.
Allthough people are happy no trade was made I was hoping we would also try to get someone to fill the void in our DH spot. Its not that vidro has been a bad hitter but he just doesnt bring a big bat to the table which would be nice to get out of our DH….there was small talks about piazza moving why didt we get him as DH. We also need to sit Sexson down and get Ben in there more and while we are at it Jones should come up see what he can do at the plate….
Yay! Bavasi does something right for a change!
And that’s awesome about the ESPN chat. Go USSM!
I’m glad we didn’t get Dotel for the obvious reason that it was a stupid trade for us but also because the Braves can use him (Wickman chokes on a regular basis) and Kyle Davies was really starting to suck. This may not have been Schuerholz’s best July 31st but I trust Bobby Cox to use his players more effectively than just about anybody, considering that he’s one of (if not *the*) best managers in baseball. The M’s certainly wouldn’t have known what to do with Dotel.
34: Ha. Corrected before the good-natured ribbing. Nice.
isn’t Deanna due to be on a flight to Japan right about now?
Now the deadline is past we can get back to pearls of wisdom like “The Mariners are winning because of chemistry” (so you still don’t bring up Adam Jones)
Dave has so much more edumacating to do of Groz.
Well done. With Buehrle off the market any trade would’ve been pointless, credit to BB for recognizing that, but the rumors flying around sure were scary.
Now there’s just the matter of oh, I dunno….ADAM JONES!
Hear hear. And thanks, Bill, for taking out the Mateo garbage.
Dave: What’s the point of the Dotel deal for the Braves? Is it about dumping Kyle Davies more than picking up Dotel? Are the Braves as stupid about Soriano as the M’s were?
Giants traded Morris to the Pirates for Rajai Davis and a PTBNL.
It must suck to be a Pirates fan.
I can’t believe our good fortune. Not only do we not have to worry about Reitsma taking the hill again, now we don’t have to worry about the possibility of Mateo getting called back up. I hadn’t even considered this trade possibility and it has brought me great joy. I wouldn’t care if we got tree frogs in return for him.
Few things are more enjoyable than listening to Groz browbeat Larry Stone about proposing to platoon Richie Sexson. Then we hit the climax when they discussed how good a trade Vidro was, with Stone muttering “secondary stats” underneath his breath like an insolent teenager.
Hopefully for the Pirates that player to be named was Jack Wilson.
9/10: Between Myers and Mateo, I’m sure Jamie will have a blast trying to keep peace in that clubhouse.
Actually, Matt Morris was traded to Pittsburgh. Because clearly they’re an overpaid 5th starter away from winning it all. They’re easily the worst franchise in sports right now.
There are some people in SE Michigan who would beg to differ with you.
Some teams got better today we did not. Without knowing what was truly available it is impossible to evaluate how the FO did today. I am midly dissapointed though, it doesn’t seem that Boston gave that much up for Gagne, now it will be that much tougher facing them in the playoffs. Hopefully we can pull a deal to actually improve during the waiver period.
The Pirates’ buyer’s remorse will set in before the August 31 deadline. Morris will be available shortly.
Dave: What are the chances AJ is called up withing the next week?
When John McLaren talks about sticking with Ibanez and Sexson down the stretch, and with vidro hitting for average again, does this mean our lineup is basically set from here on out, no matter what happens? Can Bavasi override McLaren and have the authority to force him to play AJ?
BTW, Jesus Merchan? Despite Mateo’s behavioral issues, it seems like we could’ve at least gotten a case of sunflower seeds and a spare catcher’s mask from the Phils for him.
47-
As long as the Phils don’t allow wives in the clubhouse everything should be fine.
“Actually, Matt Morris was traded to Pittsburgh. Because clearly they’re an overpaid 5th starter away from winning it all. They’re easily the worst franchise in sports right now.”
The Knicks are pretty bad.
Certainly one of the leading contenders. I think I might put up an argument for the Knicks, who manage to be colossally inept despite enjoying the best financial base in the NBA, and the Arizona Cardinals, who’ve had one (1) winning season in the last 22 years, and who haven’t been better than 9-7 since 1976.
Dave,
On a different note, what have you heard about the negotiations with our first round draft pick?
I’ve heard he hasn’t signed yet, should we be concerned that the M’s wont’ be able to sign him?
Have we signed any of our other high draft picks besides Mangini?
Which is funny because they’ll probably be the Seattle Knicks in a few years.
Oh wait not funny….sad. Sad was the word I was looking for.
Maybe if we’d thrown Raul in the Mateo trade we could have gotten that new catcher’s mask?
If Ibanez stays the same, Sexson only gets marginally better, AJ stays in Tacoma, we fall two games short of the Angels, will the Mariners have learned a thing?
Except then they’d keep the catcher’s mask, as Raul, would be 3rd or at least 4th in the catching depth chart.
Dave, I hear you about Chamberlain, it just seems like the Yankees could really use more than just one guy, and that there were some decent relief arms out there that they might have been able to have for not-too-expensive. But I give them props for not panicking, and for getting some value for Proctor.
Anyway, glad to hear nothing is going to trickle in. With such a definite amount of resources available for the rest of the year, it’s now so obvious how to manage optimally… maybe it’ll actually happen? Eventually?
Think Mickolio will be up at some point this year? Or have they pretty much decided that Rowland-Smith is their guy for the back end of the bullpen? Apologies if you don’t want to go down that road.
#46– Jeff Passen from Yahoo was just, and apparently missed the Morris deal (’Contreras and Morris might make it thorugh waivers’), and is surprised the Ms didn’t deal for a reliever because they really need one more arm, and the shame is of course that Mateo was that arm if he hadn’t been so stupid…
There are some people in SE Michigan who would beg to differ with you.
Detroit? No, not even. Pittsburgh has been bad for 15 years, and with trades for guys like Morris, they’re not going to be better anytime soon.
Oh, you meant the Lions. Hmm. Well, they made the playoffs in 1993, after the Pirates did…
The Lions have several winning records in the last thirty years, and even a 12-4. They can’t touch the Cardinals.
_David_ when Mac says that about sticking with Ibanez/Sexson for the stretch that is Bavasi talking not Mac.
Why do I say that you wonder? simple because it’s the GM that authorizes callups from the Minors NOT
the team manager.
With Bavasi his policy unfortuanately is contract over team best interest that why no Adam Jones etc… til Sept callups at the absolute soonest unless Ibanez goes on the DL prior to that.
However be extremely grateful to God in heaven Bavasi didn’t do one of his top prospect for “proven veteran” deals and stood pat all the way.
With the exception of the trade of Mateo to the Phillies for AA INFer prospect Jesus Merchan with solid numbers and is way overdue a promotion to AAA.Could prove to be one of those gems Beane finds A’s style.
Sure Merchan is 26 but with his overall numbers looks like his finally blooming and only needs a chance in AAA to prove he is if so the M’s have another MLB ready INFer to move in should Lopez go down or if utility guy Bloomie go down as well.
Groz is clueless. He asked Stone how he would platoon Sexson and Broussard since they are both left handed. He chased that by stating the Weaver signing and Vidro trade have turned out to be a great moves by Bavasi. What a joke.
I’d label Bavasi’s strategy ‘addition by inaction’. A wise choice.
My beloved Red Sox’s Gagne deal puts my teeth on edge. But over at SoSH, someone pointed out that Gagne is likely to be a class A FA after the season, so the Sox can net two solid draft picks out of him, which offsets the acquisition cost nicely.
And the Pirates really are just abysmally managed.
Actually, the Lions made the playoffs in 1999, too.
Hey now Mateo can induce ground balls in Philly. And I’m sure that Moyer will love having him protect leads in his starts.
Jim Street made me laugh with this gem on the Mariners website:
“Broussard, acquired in a trade with the Indians last July 26 for outfielder Shin-Choo Shin…”
71- LOL
scraps, ec,
You’re right of course, but if I had to switch allegiances right now, I would much rather become a Cards fan than a Lions fan. Maybe I’m being foolish, but I like the direction the Cardinals are in right now, and it looks to me like the Lions could be completely helpless for several more years.
Still, there are so many great choices for worst-run sports franchise, with too many different ways to compare them. I’m glad I’m not a fan of any of those franchises, that’s for sure.
The Lions have several winning records in the last thirty years, and even a 12-4. They can’t touch the Cardinals.
The Cardinals ALSO won a playoff game after the Pirates did (in 1999).
Here’s the thing about not trading Balentien: What do you do with him next year?
68: Groz has been mailing it in for awhile. He doesn’t even seem to be paying attention any more. I’m still trying to figure out what is worse though–the Baseball’s Best Postgame show guys saying that calling up Adam Jones would be a bad move because you don’t know what you’ll get, or Groz having no idea what’s going on when his career is devoted to covering sports.
Morris to the Pirates deal is a bit tragic when you think about it.
Glad to hear Bill didn’t cave and make a move for the sake of making a move. We could’ve used another starter, but there wasn’t one that moved that would’ve been an upgrade.
I can’t believe how teams how much paid for relievers. Dotel for Davies? Gagne for three interesting prospects? Proctor for Betemit? That’s insanity.
Ibanez
May .787
June .870
July .511
Broussard
May .848
June .776
July .758
That difference isn’t as big as I’d thought. If Adam Jones can out-produce Richie Sexson, then it works out. Projections aside, it’s no lock.
Rick L. Maybe you play Wlad in right rather than giving Jose Guillen a lucrative extension through his declining years.
Who would you prefer in that time slot Gorz or NY Vinny??
Even if AJ’s offense is similar to Ibanez, he’d be so much better in the outfield than Raul that he would more than make it worthwhile. Ibanez has the worst range this side of Barry Bonds–and one semi-diving catch that he shouldn’t have had to dive for doesn’t make up for that.
M’s Press conf in about 10 minutes. Don’t know what it’s about though.
fetish
I have no idea what you’re trying to prove with those numbers. Take another crack at it please.
76, I think we will move him in the off season when he will bring in more than just a reliever. At this point, it doesn’t look like have will have a place on the team next year.
#83– it’s being called a ‘press availability’
76 – If we don’t have a spot for Wlad next year, we trade him in the offseason.
I thank my lucky stars on no deal being done today, but now do we have to worry about the waiver deadline deals up to August 31st?
83: Maybe the team’s welcoming Jesus Merchan, the newest member of the Mariner Family.
But over at SoSH, someone pointed out that Gagne is likely to be a class A FA after the season, so the Sox can net two solid draft picks out of him, which offsets the acquisition cost nicely.
There’s no way Gagne’s a class A free agent. The Elias ranking system takes into account the stats and playing time of the past two seasons when ranking free agents. Gagne doesn’t have the playing time.
68: Hmm…Richie’s LEFT handed, too? He must’ve been ambidextrous all those years and we weren’t aware of it!
77: I know…KJR often-times sounds utterly hopeless. Maybe they should go back to playing Top 40!
81 – I can’t stand NY Vinny so I’ll have to go with the Groz–Even if you can hear him hmmm’n and haaah’n as he looks up things on the internet when he has no idea what is going on.
Dave, tell me 83 is joking… please. Please…
Can someone tell me what’s going on? Would seem strange to me that we’d be announcing a callup or a trade of Mateo.
Oh, you meant the Lions. Hmm. Well, they made the playoffs in 1993, after the Pirates did…
The Pirates were contending in September 1997.
#93– The M’s told the media as the deadline came due that later on today they would have a ‘press availability’ to answer questions. I don’t think you have to panic.
You guys are right about Groz, I can’t stand him anymore, he doesn’t even follow sports. My favorite was right before the NBA draft when he kept saying he thought Portland would take Durant #1 even though about 135 articles on the internet had confirmed they were taking Oden.
93.
I would guess that the press conference will be something along the lines of Bavasi saying that he believes in the team as it’s constructed and that he wasn’t willing to sacrifice the future of this franchise for a marginal improvement.
94: Probably are just going to say something like “We looked to make a deal and we would have made one had we thought that it would have improved the team.”
Actually, Mitch & Co. with all their sopho-MORONIC attempts at being (VERY low-level) T-ball league Howard Stern wannabees take the cake for the absolute worst on that station.
I’m glad that Bavasi didn’t make any boneheaded moves but I’m not exactly jubilant about standing pat either. The Mariners are in the hunt this year, and that’s exciting, but if the playoffs started today the M’s aren’t in and haven’t been all year. You don’t get any prizes for almost being a playoff team.
I guess we can hope that Sexson and Ibanez start hitting or we get more consistency from our starting rotation or that the Angels and the Indians stumble. But hope isn’t a plan for success. The only real positive move I can see the team making now to get better is to call Adam Jones up, but if that doesn’t happen in the next week it probably won’t until the September roster expansion.
At least Mitch sounds like he reads the sports page before his show; which is more then I can say for Groz.
Maybe they’re announcing the signing of Shawn Estes to a minor-league deal.
101 – Actually, they have been in first place a couple times. Yes, very early. But, I like to point out incorrect statements, so, you’re wrong.
Hey, at least he’s WILLING to do research.
Can’t say that about Fain or Softy (or some other front office executives we know about).
If we were happy to give Mateo away, even after really pitching well in AAA, why not just cut him to begin with? I mean, wasn’t he down there mainly because of the M’s “taking a stand” against his off the field behavior?
Because then the M’s would have had to eat his contract AND deal with the union grievance.
Pat Gillick handed the M’s a great Christmas in July gift.
106. Because we were able to get a minor league org. player and not have to pay the remainder on Julio’s contract?
105 – he doesn’t even know that Sexon is a righty. I’m sure that fain and softy at least know that. Fain and Softy offer a different sort of show than the Groz does. He’s boring AND doesn’t know what he’s talking about. At least I can get a decent chuckle out of Softy’s show every now and then.
Thank you Mariners, I will sleep much better tonight.
Anybody find it amusing that the biggest trade before the deadline was in Basketball. Well hey if thats whats taking the headlines I am okay with that. Better then AJ for some washed up reliever.
Why wouldn’t the M’s acquire Morris for a fringe prospect? Is it due to his contract or because the FO doesn’t think he’s an upgrade over HoRam?
Glad to hear all the Groz bashing. I quit listening to KJR long ago as they A) never have anything good to say B) talk about the same things over and over and C) made me want to drive into oncoming traffic everytime he says something like “Now if you want to make the playoffs this year, you HAVE to trade Adam Jones, you just HAVE to”… oh and Nellie saying that Raul is a professional and that taking him out of the line-up for AJ would anger some people and hurt team chemistry… last time I checked these guys are PROFESSIONALS. All Seattle Sports Radio is worthless
Yikes… Adam Jones quote from the seattlemariners.com piece on sticking with the intact roster for the playoff push:
“I know I’m ready to play every day for somebody,” he said. “I have talked to Bill and Mac and they know how I feel. I have gone in several times and talked to them, but I’m the property of the Mariners until after next year, and I have to be prepared to be here.
“I won’t cause a big scene about it, but they know my desire to play. They also know that when I’m on the field, I’m focused on winning the game.”
Sounds like we could be starting to piss the man off. I’m sure it’s not that big of a deal, but I want to see this kid happy about being affiliated with the Mariners. Maybe we should just cave and give him that everyday job with the club, huh?
Um…so…is the press conference televised? Is anyone watching it?
114 KJR said this afternoon that they would be bringing and noteworthy sound bits to the air.
113 – That’s Broussard’s comments, not Adam Jones’.
He asked Stone how he would platoon Sexson and Broussard since they are both left handed
Well that explains the slump. Richie’s going up there swinging from the wrong side of the plate.
113. That would be Ben Broussard’s quote, not AJ’s.
C’mon ya all!
Have faith!! Richie is bound to hit .220 any month now!
113 – That’s Broussard’s comments, not Adam Jones’.
Exactly right. Darrylzero had me scared for a minute there…
113: Yeah, Adam Jones isn’t quoted in that story.
109: At least Softy today agreed Sexson should be platooned, too.
Richie Sexson should be used for nothing more than changing Safeco clubhouse lightbulbs.
Maybe Dave Softy Mahler should be platooned too, with something more pleasant to listen to.
Like a lawnmower.
119 – There’s a bar in Fremont that sets its beer price by Sexson’s average. Meaning, not too long ago, you could have bought a pint for less than $2.
Ibanez: 6 hr in 357 ab
Broussard: 6 hr in 136 ab
Does McLaren have access to this information?
Sorry guys (and thanks, I’m relieved as well). I guess I just can’t actually pay close attention to those articles and just missed the transition from talking about Jones to talking about Broussard. Apologies.
104: When were the Mariners ever in first after winning the first two games against Oakland? They barely played for the next two weeks with all of the rainouts/snowouts.
112: Thank you…KJR sticks Jim Rome on their crappy little two-watt sister station out of Tacoma that you can’t get in Seattle, but I’d rather listen to even him than some of the local schmucks they’ve got on there.
124: You may get your wish, Colm…the way he spazzes out on the air sometimes, I swear he’s gonna have a coronary one of these days!
Last night when I was at the game and Sexon got a questionable strike and started Yacking a guy beside yelled “get tossed, please!”
Also it was a little sad to see Ibanez called off of a ball in his zone, when he was 25 feet from the ball and Ichiro was 75. It was like he could not believe he was being called off. The way it was hit he would have been parked under it.
Nice play by Uni.
JJ Rocks
Greg
Oh, my. The Pirates are paying Matt Morris’ entire salary.
I think Ichiro knows Ibanez fields like crap and rubs it in a little by playing half of left field for him.
Oh, my. The Pirates are paying Matt Morris’ entire salary.
Yeah, my earlier objection to the Pirates being the worst franchise in pro sports? I withdraw that.
131
Hey, if I’m Ichiro, I’m calling off either corners on anything that leaves the infield, and I’m doing it for the good of the team.
I think Jephdood is on the right track regarding Sexson.
Keep paying his salary since you’re on the hook anyway, and make him the team handyman.
I’ve been to two of the last three games, and wouldn’t ya know it I got to see a big fat 0-fer from Raul. I also won a $5 bet from a fellow fan that Richie wouldn’t have an rbi. I don’t know whats sadder, the fact that I bet against my own player, or that I knew I would win the bet? I wish I coulda bet McLaren for Richie and Raul’s roster spots…
I heard that someone said that Groz (or Larry Stone) wanted Bavasi to get an extension because we’ve been improving each year.
Ibanez doesn’t have a bad glove. If can get to it he catches it as he showed last night. His problem is a lack of range and subpar arm, so there’s no reason for Ichiro to call him off on routine fly balls unless there’s a runner on base in danger of advancing.
Regarding all the KJR talk:
Like a lot of you guys, I’ve lived in other cities with sports radio stations such as Atlanta (where they actually have 2) and I have to say that while a lot of the chatter we get from KJR is embarassing, we are actually quite lucky here in Seattle.
Sure, the Groz is lazy at times and of course, Dick Faine is a complete whimp. But overall, the lineup that KJR puts out everyday is far and away superior to most cities.
I am completely okay with Ichiro calling off the [i]catcher[/i] if he feels like it’s justified.
But then again, I have a massive mancrush on Ichiro.
If can get to it he catches it . . .
Can’t you say that about all big-league outfielders? Raul looks like he’s on roller skates when he makes a catch, but I guess I understand what you mean. Still, the center fielder is usually the one who’s supposed to take any ball he can get to. It’s not like he’s out to offend Raul by stealing his easy outs.
I am confused. Why does Bavasi get props for not doing something stupid. From the rumors (and perhaps that’s all they were) he was trying but failed. It’s like the FA market last winter, “Hooray for Bill, didn’t sign Zito or other over priced guys.” Not hooray, he tried and couldn’t get it done. Hooray for him failing, not for good judgement.
What I’m saying is that Raul is perfectly capable of making difficult catches if he can get a glove on the ball, as he showed last night. His problem is getting to it. There’s no reason for Ichiro to run halfway across LF to catch a ball that Ibanez can get to, which I’ve seen him do. But if there are runners on base, by all means let the guy with the cannon have it.
Geoff Baker’s blog just posted this:
“Just got back up from Mariners GM Bill Bavasi’s post-deadline talk with reporters and I can tell you that Adam Jones will likely be here this week. Bavasi indicated that having Jones ready to step up to the big club helped sway some of the decision-making that went on prior to the deadline.”
Baker just posted:
“Just got back up from Mariners GM Bill Bavasi’s post-deadline talk with reporters and I can tell you that Adam Jones will likely be here this week. Bavasi indicated that having Jones ready to step up to the big club helped sway some of the decision-making that went on prior to the deadline.”
Rationally, based on the rest of those comments, I’m not sure the “be here this week” has any real basis in fact (wasn’t Geoff sure he would be called up after the AS break?)… but I sure hope he is right this time!
Beaten to the punch!
Sorry bub
144 – like Teej said, you can say that about all big league OF. As Eleven11 said, we shouldn’t pat BB on the back for not screwing up, as he tried. Just as we shouldn’t pat Raul on the back for catching a routine fly ball. IF he can get to ball you say, which is the whole problem. He can’t get to many balls and its killing us.
Apparently my massive mancrush on Ichiro has caused me to fail at tags too, but you know what I meant.
Good news from Geoff, hopefully it comes to fruition; if Adam Jones comes up here just to rot on the bench, though, that’s as big of a problem as him sitting in Tacoma for no reason.
He should be the starting everyday left fielder as soon as he’s called up. I don’t think there’s any real value to “working him into the lineup slowly”, but that is probably what we wills ee happen.
Dang it, RoninX and Moondog! I would have beaten you to the punch if I wasn’t busy registering to make my first ever comment. Now my first ussm comment has no substance whatsoever.
Oh well, everything will be right with the world if Baker’s hunch is true.
Actually, doing the smart thing ALWAYS merits kudos.
It’s not a matter of “not screwing up”…or if it is, then an awful, awful lot of GMs (not just Bavasi) are guilty of it.
Looks like my first comment wasn’t wasted. Sorry DS, but the early nerd gets the Jones scoop.
Bummer of a first comment. That sucks man.
149: I agree with the others that Ibanez lacks range and an arm and that’s a problem. What I’m getting tired of, though, is hearing people trash every aspect of his fielding as if Ichiro needs to race over and make every catch for him. I know that a lot of fans are jonesing for Jones in LF but it’s gotten to the point where some people barely want to give Raul credit for making a great catch last night that probably saved two runs.
My question is: What’s going to give? McLaren has said he will stick by his struggling vets no matter what they do (short of beating their wives). So when we bring up Jones, does he join Ben Broussard and just rot on the bench? or does someone in the FO nut up and tell Raul and Richie how it is?
140: Two sports radio stations in Vegas and ALL locally originated programming is hilarious and pathetic. I would love to trade you stations.
Could not get game on TV last night but I imagine Evil Rick, etc., influenced half the region there to consider it a GREAT catch by Ibanez, much like the running catch vs. Tigers that I saw in person.
Tonight the Wonder Dog will be storming the cable waves here. Huzzah me not.
So, what you’re saying is Ibanez can catch it IF it’s hit right at him? That doesn’t mean he has any business being there in left on a regular basis.
That grab was fine. It looked nice. But it was hit so close to the defender that any left fielder in baseball should have made that catch. Even Manny.
155 – I was there sitting in LF, and believe me I was amazed that he made the catch, it was nice. But It made me think: If Jones (or even Ellison for that matter) is in Left do they just catch it on the run instead of having to dive down for it because of the bad jump he got?
Thanks Bill!!!
The team needed a starter and there were no starters worth selling the farm for. All we needed to do was cut some fat, and we did so with mateo.
…the future is so bright, I need shades.
Hey, the Ibanez catch was on Web Gems, so it’s not just our region who thought it was great. (I was wondering as I watched it, though, how much of an effect someone’s well-known fielding problems might have. I can imagine a diving Bonds catch creating a big shock wave even if 9 out of 10 other fielders would’ve had it.)
rsrobinson:
Willie Bloomquist hit a home run once. That does not mean that we should think he has any potential to hit home runs in the future.
Raul Ibanez, who I’m sure is a nice guy, should not be playing the outfield anymore, and if Ichiro is smart enough to realize that even when the people running the team do not, then he should call Raul off of anything he feels he can make a better play on.
So….that leaves the Broussard situation. Maybe Bavasi can tackle several problems at once?
Granted, it’d be hard to bench Vidro when he’s actually hitting doubles once in a while
but Bavasi sure can do something about Raul and Richie: make both AJ and BB happy at the expense of the other two!
No trade is a good thing. We all know there wasn’t much out there and what was was too expensive.
Changes to the M’s seems so simple, but that’s coming from a simpleton like me.
Platoon Sexson and Broussard, platoon Ibanez and Vidro and bring up Adam Jones to play left.
What’s wrong with that?
I too have to admit that the ball Ibanez caught last night was a rocket. Those are tough balls to play. In fact I was wondering if AJ is polished enough to make that play.
158: Nonsense. Guerrero hit a bullet that was diving into the turf and Ibanez had to react quickly on it to make the play. A lot of left fielders don’t necessarily make that catch. Especially Manny.
The main reason it made Web gems was because there were only like six games played yesterday.
155: Isn’t “getting to balls” the essential skill of being an outfielder? A hitter who is able to make good contact with the pitches he manages to hit but can hit far fewer pitches than another player is…well you see where this is going.
Another factor in watching Raul is that his lack of speed is very, very easy to see. Every time he misses a ball by an inch or by a couple steps it’s easy to conclude that a certain other person would have caught it.
AJ turns 22 tomorrow. Hopefully a birthday gift includes starting in left.
I’m not sure that using “Manny Ramirez wouldn’t have made that play” as the core of your argument is the route you want to take to try to convince us that Raul is a good defensive outfielder.
156.
Don’t know what’ll happen, but my guess is Guillen, Vidro and Ibanez rotate between LF and DH, with Guillen playing nearly everyday.
I stand by my earlier comment that every outfielder in baseball should be expected to make that play 9 times out of 10.
It was almost directly at him.
What does “polish” have to do with reading routes or fielding range? Jones, so we hear, is good enough to be a competent defensive center-fielder. Ibanez on the other hand, is the second worst outfielder in the American league. Is there an argument here, or just some idle ‘wondering’?
163 – Thats makes a little too much sense for us to do that. I like to think I drive the Ben Broussard Bandwagon and I would love to see him play more. Sadly it looks like he needs to leave for that to happen since he’s not as ‘veteran’ and Sexson
Beaten to the punch! (on Adam Jones comments from Bavasi)
That news was worth posting twice!!
Bavasi gets props not for failing, but for realizing that trading even a semi-prospect for a marginal upgrade in middle relief is giving up too much. If there was talent to get, especially at starting pitcher, certainly Balentin should be on the market and maybe Jones if Santana or Peavy were out there, but they aren’t and in the end the M’s prospects weren’t either.
For this year, Red Sox look like winners at the trade deadline followed closely by the Mariners for trading Jose Vidro or Raul Ibanez for Adam Jones
A huge co-sign right here.
A great catch by Raul is a routine catch by every other major league outfielder not named Manny Ramirez. That’s the problem. When I see Raul flail to make a shoe string catch, I see an outfielder with average range making a running catch with momentum to throw. Short of scaling the outfield wall, every great catch and near miss Raul makes should be a routine out.
“Good news from Geoff, hopefully it comes to fruition; if Adam Jones comes up here just to rot on the bench, though, that’s as big of a problem as him sitting in Tacoma for no reason.”
I disagree – even if he is “eased in” (which, for the record, I also disagree with) than at least he is contributing something to the big club. Being a defensive replacement after the 7th or 8th will probably also get him a few at bats and we’re getting to that part of the season where even old school managers like to rest veterans.
The way I see it – at least if Jones is here he’ll at least have a shot of getting some at bats and some fielding – though the broussard corollary IS troubling (if that guy hasn’t earned some PT how can you!?).
PS – In case its not clear I disagree with Jones being eased in because he should be starting.
Some of you guys are making my point for me. You won’t even give Ibanez credit for making a hell of a play. And, yeah, a less experienced outfielder like Jones doesn’t necessarily read a shot like that in time to make the play.
I’m not saying that Jones wouldn’t be a better defensive outfielder…of course he would. But automatically trashing everything Ibanez does and not even giving credit when credit is due doesn’t help make your case.
I have long agreed that AJ would be a serious upgrade in left and it’s well known why. However, balls like the one Vlad hit are the toughest to read off the bat. What I mean is he’s been playing OF for 2 years now maybe he gets a good read and makes the play easily…maybe he doesn’t and it drops in. Last year I don’t think he makes that play. I just think Raul made a good play on that ball and he should get his props.
Raul did make (what i consider) the best fielding/defensive play of his career last night…
but that still doesnt mean that i like him better than Adam Jones!!
I promise to the FO that i will buy 5 (Yes FIVE) Adam Jones Jerseys when they become avaiable (one for eveyone in the house.) Just Jonesin’ for some ADAM JONES!!
179 – “But automatically trashing everything XXX does and not even giving credit when credit is due doesn’t help make your case.”
But… but… thats all I’ve ever heard on sports talk radio since I was a small lad. I blame society.
Sure, a great catch is a great catch. But a great catch by an elm tree doesn’t make the elm tree a good outfielder.
Who would you prefer in that time slot Gorz or NY Vinny??
Elise and Ian
“Sure, a great catch is a great catch. But a great catch by an elm tree doesn’t make the elm tree a good outfielder.”
That depends – is the catch a repeatable skill? How big IS this elm tree?
:rimshot:
A diving catch does not automatically mean a nice play. If it did, Derek Jeter might actually deserve one or two of his Gold Gloves.
The problem with giving someone “credit” for a play like that is that it leads to over-evaluating someone’s defensive value, which is why Raul is still playing the outfield in the first place.
Experience is a factor, sure; but athleticism is a much larger factor, and Adam Jones trumps Raul in that. Any difference in reaction time would’ve been made up and then some by AJ’s superior speed and athleticism.
I’ve also heard that tree can get good wood on the ball.
Why does everyone think that since Jone’s is young he won’t make a great play? Does anyone remember Jeremy Reed almost winning a gold glove his first season? Raul Ibanez didn’t make a great catch becuase he’s a vet, he made it a great one because he wasn’t quick enough to get to it. Jones catches that ball on the run and doesn’t even go to ground. Did Raul make a great catch? Yes. Did it have to be great? Not so much. Edmonds makes great plays because he barely gets there in time to catch it. Griffey would have made many great plays but they looked routine because he got to em so quick.
Lauren wins.
rsrobinson and people seem to be just talking past each other. People are talking about Raul’s skill set and saying that catch is no indication of it. That’s true. rsrobinson is talking about his “web gem,” which any low defensive skill player can get once in a while but nonetheless was pretty nice to see. That’s also true.
Peace?
I do hope, though, the M’s team decision-making is based on the former orientation.
“Experience is a factor, sure; but athleticism is a much larger factor, and Adam Jones trumps Raul in that. Any difference in reaction time would’ve been made up and then some by AJ’s superior speed and athleticism.”
Excellent point. We’re not talking about third base here people. In the OF athleticism can compensate for reaction time – and you know the best way for our future LF to get that much lauded experience? By getting some PT in the park he’ll call home for the next few years (knocking on wood).
“You won’t even give Ibanez credit for making a hell of a play.”
No I won’t because I saw it and I don’t think it was hell of a play. He did a nice competent job, just like outfielders are supposed to do, on a ball that was hit hard right at him.
“Experience is a factor, sure; but athleticism is a much larger factor, and Adam Jones trumps Raul in that. Any difference in reaction time would’ve been made up and then some by AJ’s superior speed and athleticism.”
A rocket line drive that dives into the ground in front of the outfielder isn’t about covering a lot of ground. It’s about making a quick read and reacting. I’ve seen a lot of athletic outfielders not make the play on less-scorching shots than that one.
You’re sticking to your guns. We shall have to agree to differ.
“A rocket line drive that dives into the ground in front of the outfielder isn’t about covering a lot of ground. It’s about making a quick read and reacting. I’ve seen a lot of athletic outfielders not make the play on less-scorching shots than that one.”
I’m not arguing that – I don’t think anyone is. That was a great play by Raul. I’m not conceding that Jones couldn’t have made that play BUT… even if Jones doesn’t make that play there have been 4-5 balls to left field *this week* that Raul didn’t get to that Jones would/should have.
hmm… maybe 4-5 in the last 10 days.
Interesting quotes from Bavasi, via AP, on the resons for getting rid of Mateo:
“Seattle general manager Bill Bavasi said his team had decided long ago that Mateo would never pitch for the Mariners again, and that Mateo agreed. Then the Mariners aggressively sought the setup reliever that Mateo used to be for them before the trade deadline, but were unable to complete a deal.
Bavasi said he never reconsidered bringing Mateo back to Seattle after his 10-day suspension despite a strong performance at Triple-A Tacoma.
“Our approach with him was that it would be better for us and for him if he broke back in elsewhere. And he didn’t fight that idea,” Bavasi said, while declining to detail what led the Mariners to conclude that. “It was collaborative effort to get him a new home.”
Bavasi said Mariners players had zero input on the decision that Mateo would never return.
“We felt that … him debuting here could affect his performance,” Bavasi said.”
I was sitting there in LF for the game. Trust me I saw it perfectly and was utterly amazed he still caught it after the jump he got. Adam Jones is lankier and more athletic then Raul, which both would have helped make that catch. As I said I’m not taking anything away from Raul but he made it look much more difficult then it needed to be. You cannot tell me Raul made that play simply because he is a veteran. If so your drinking the FO kool-aid
I may just be wearing the rosy glasses, but I miss the way Lou worked in the bench players. He was hell on young arms, but he got ab’s for the guys on the bench. McLemore was practically an everyday player. Why can’t they do that with Raul, Guillen & Vidro. Platooning Sexson and Broussard seems like a no-brainer (actually it doesn’t – Broussard seems to do pretty well against lefties). Also, while I’m at it, does it seem weird to all that Bavasi and MacLaren don’t want to hurt the feelings of their players? These guys make millions of dollars and they aren’t six years old. Weird.
Okay; for Raul, that was a great play, but that’s not the point. He saved us from his own inadequacy on one play and we’re supposed to congratulate him or change our mind about his defensive capabilities? Comparatively, most other outfielders are going to make that catch and they’re going to make it a lot easier.
There’s a good reason why people aren’t giving him props for the catch: Because people tend to take isolated incidents like this as evidence of competency and ignore all of the plays he -doesn’t- make that he should. That’s the kind of thinking that gets us into messes like this AJ fiasco.
“I’m not arguing that – I don’t think anyone is. That was a great play by Raul. I’m not conceding that Jones couldn’t have made that play BUT… even if Jones doesn’t make that play there have been 4-5 balls to left field *this week* that Raul didn’t get to that Jones would/should have.”
That’s not my point and never has been. There’s no question that Jones would be a defensive upgrade. My point is that the desire to have Jones replace Ibanez in LF has reached the point where some people will trash or belittle everything Raul does. That’s not fair to either him or Jones.
201 – Umm could you please point out what exactly Raul has done this season… Theres not exactly a long list of GOOD things for us to belittle.
Even a blind pig gets a truffle now and then. Thanks for the truffle, Raul. Now I’m in the mood for bacon.
Apparently we were going after Loretta as the deadline hit (http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/119168.asp?source=rss)
Encouraging re: Bloomquist if you ask me…
203-
No, that was a once very good athlete making a good play. Raul is old. He should not be playing in the field, if at all. At least give the guy credit when he does something good. If he doesn’t make that play it’s an entirely different ball game.
Am I the only one who saw Raul sneer when asked about his play last night? I think he knows that USSM and many more are tired of his defense. I thought he was demeaning in his answer, which makes me even more sick of his 0-forever.
So what’s up with this Jesus Merchan guy Seattle got from Philly? On paper, he looks sort of like a Venezuelan Bloomquist (i.e. plays multiple positions with mundane adequacy, 14 HBP’s could signify future grit, etc).
Presuming the fielder has to move at all, the time they spend in motion after reacting to the play is ALWAYS going to be longer than their reaction time.
To give you an example, try taking this reaction time test:
http://cognitivelabs.com/mydna_speedtestno.htm
My average time on that was 329 milliseconds, and I am not a peak performance athlete.
So even if there is some large difference in reaction time between experienced Raul and young Adam (which I’m not prepared to grant, but for the sake of argument), it would be measured in the tens of milliseconds, and would be massively dwarfed by the actual time spent running into position to make the play.
From ESPN’s preview of tonight’s game:
“Seattle’s Richie Sexson is batting .375 (9-for-24) with two home runs against Lackey.”
*sigh*
I love Raul, and I agree that he should get props for saving the game last night, especially in light of his aging skills. If a blind 6-year-old had made the catch he would have gotten even more props. But then you’d HAVE to ask, what the h@ll is a blind 6-year-old doing plaing left field?
“Am I the only one who saw Raul sneer when asked about his play last night? I think he knows that USSM and many more are tired of his defense. I thought he was demeaning in his answer, which makes me even more sick of his 0-forever.”
I’d sneer too if I were him and read some of this crap. There’s a point when solid analysis (and the case for Adam Jones in LF is solid) crosses the line into mindless naysaying. When Ibanez is trashed even when he makes a hell of a play that line has been crossed.
@208
203 milliseconds, but I’m fast and sexy.
205 – If you’ll look at any of my posts regarding this subject each time I say that it WAS a great catch. My point is that it wouldn’t have been so great if a more athletic player was in that spot. and While I appreciate everything Raul has done, especially last year, this is 2007. He has had TWO monthes where he didnt homer (May, July) and one which he hit ONE (April). He is no longer helping the team win, so I see no reason to pat him on the back for the sake of him finally making a play. How many runners have advanced on him? How many rallies has he killed? He batter third behind the best leadoff man in baseball who is second in AL avg. and a two hole hitter thats batting better then .300, and he has managed 61 rbi.
For Jones’ sake, I hope he has a Willie Bloomquist 2002 sort of August-September rather than an Alex Gordon April-May 2007 sort of August-September.
The time he had in CF last year should help a bit, but still, he better be ready to rake when he gets told to drive on up I-5.
I guess I was asking anyone but you rsrobinson. If you hate reading it feel free to go elsewhere. BTW, I did not trash Raul for THAT play. I trash Raul for the 20+ plays this year that he has NOT made.
208 –
my reaction time was 250 lol
though my first time it was 800..
I love Raul, and I agree that he should get props for saving the game last night, especially in light of his aging skills.
Raul does have great aging skills. In fact, I don’t think anybody on this team can age as quickly as he can (well, except for Sexson).
1) Raul has a great glove. He makes great catches with it.
2) Unfortunately, to work properly Raul’s glove needs to be near the ball.
3) Raul’s legs can’t get his glove where it needs to be.
4) Raul shouldn’t be playing LF.
5) Adam Jones should be.
Raul? sneer????
It told me I was 241 ms.
No argument for replacing Raul in LF for Adam Jones… BUT!!
Im starting to think that Raul deserves a little better from us. I know it sounds strange, but if you want to drag him through the mud for all the crap that he has done wrong for us, you should try and balance that out with all the good things he has done as well. i dont have a list of stats to quote, but the guy can probaly out hustle, hit, and catch all of us that are registered to this site (lets keep in mind that he is a Pro Athlete and we are in most cases not.) I know its hard sometimes to not get caught up in all the bashing, but he is our player and maybe, just maybe we should give him a reason to play other than collecting a paycheck. (i.e. amiration, and applause is a good start)
Im not sticking up for him but it seems like some of the comments are just downright spiteful. The guy isn’t TRYING TO SCREW US!!! he is just a smidge past his prime. (oh yeah, the same goes for Sexson too)
My GandPappy always said… “winning isnt everything…” i though he was just an old windbag at the time… but after a while i started to notice how some of the Winningest Teams/Players (pro or not)were cheating (cough … Barry) and started to develop a different view of things.
Do we really need to know everyone’s reaction time?
(226ms btw)
#204– Larry Stone had mentioned Loretta this morning, in the context of “strengthen their bench”
221, I agree, but that doesn’t seem to be the prevailing view of things around here. This blog is AWESOME, but you can’t expect this crowd to get behind you.
221 – Last I checked the point of baseball was to win. I could be wrong. What everyone is mad at isn’t nessacarily Raul, but that he continues to play. I know that is McLaren’s decision, and that he goes out to play where he’s penciled in. But again you cannot admire or applause a guy when he doesn’t give a reason to. Raul does not play defense, does not bat well anymore, and is generally dragging the team down. I for one want to see the Mariners win and our chances to win go down when he is in the lineup. As I said I thank him for his previous seasons, but its time for the Org. to move on to a more productive player.
Who listens to Sports Radio anymore? I mean, if you’re starved for that kind of entertainment, just write a parser that filters for trolls and run game threads through text-to-speech.
No?
well, currently on sports radio is the aformentioned Bill
after 112 ads, of course
The P-I fan forum called. They want their posters back!
#221 –
Are you new to this blog? If you are, I suggest you read up for about a month and then post. If you want to talk about the intrinsic value of a player, and what he’s done for the fans, there are plenty of blogs for you.
Just not this one.
This whole thread needs to be deleted.
221 – Yes, he is a pro athlete and we are not. Yes, he can out hit, out ‘x’ and out ‘y’ each of us. By the same token he is a pro athlete and we are not and pro athletes have their performance criticized (sometimes unfairly). It is part of the territory and paycheck.
Speaking strictly for myself, I am not making any value judgement about Raul Ibanez as a person. I certainly have no axe to grind with him.
But regardless of the occasional Web Gem, he is a well-below-average defensive outfielder at this point in his career, and Adam Jones would be a HUGE defensive upgrade at a position that is of critical importance when you play half your games at Safeco Field.
It is not “bashing” anyone to recognize this.
Bill sez there were some guys on the untouchable list (Jones, Clement)
-he thinks they came in 2nd on a certain player (coughDotelcough)
-they were lurking around a 3 player deal that fell apart– some of the players involved may still get moved if they can make it through waivers, and he says thet’d be in line to claim at least one
-they were close on a veteran utility guy (coughLorettacough) but the players didn;t match, and they pulled the plug
Will we face Gagne the upcoming Bosox series?
235: I don’t see why not.
There are a lot of skills that go into being a “good outfielder” and Ibanez still exhibits some of them. He’s not the clown that Broussard is out there. He takes good routes and if he can reach the ball he catches it. And his effort given his leg problems is admirable. BUT…he’s too slow to adequately play the position any longer. I thought he was done early last year coming off the leg problems and I really respect the effort he’s made to reach the level of performance he has. But range is a key component of OF skill and he has almost completely lost his.
Bring on AJ!
I agree with all the comments about not being able to judge an outfielder’s reaction time to the ball unless you are at the ballpark. Television cameras just cannot capture the entire field. I was at the game Saturday and noticed Ichiro making catches in left field that Raul should have taken.
We are three games out at this stage and we need to improve. Coolstandings only gives the M’s a 20% chance to win the division and it has the Indians and Yankees ahead of us in the wild card. A defensive liability in left field is one area we can improve. Even if whoever is in left field now can get to the ball, no one has an arm. Anybody on third is going to tag and score on a fly ball hit to left unless Ichiro gets there to make the catch.
I listened to the Rainiers game yesterday and the broadcaster mentioned that Adam Jones was now getting a better jump on the ball in center field than when he played right field earlier in the season. If he is going to come up and play left field at Safeco shouldn’t the M’s have Tacoma make him play left
field until he is brought up to get him accustomed to picking up the ball from left field? He was a former SS but I don’t know if seeing the ball from the left side of the infield translates to seeing the ball from that side in the outfield. There was a post within the last week which evaluated defense and came to the conclusion that even if Adam Jones only hits Sexson numbers, the defensive improvement is worth bringing him up, which I agree with.
I say groom Adam Jones in the Rainiers left field for a week, tell Sexson we are tired of waiting for him to take off in the second half of the season and make Broussard the every day first baseman. By the way, Richies post season stats are worse than his regular season stats this year for the M’s. He has one hit and one single in nine post season games. That amounts to a stunning .071 batting average. Do not platoon Sexson, sit him down for the good of the team. Get Broussard the playing time so when we go to the post season he is our regular first baseman. Since we can’t improve our starting rotation let’s get over the hump with an improved outfield and better production from first base.
233-
But you are still arguing the point. We know. We conceded. Raul Ibanez should not be playing. Let it go.
“Jump” to me is a combination of A) Starting to move and B) Moving in the right direction to be where the ball will land. If you are awesome at A and crappy at B it’s like be average at A. Ibanez picks good routes when he gets going…and in fact it may be a sign of experience to wait a split second to better judge the flight of the ball before going full speed the wrong direction.
Apropos of Jones, Bavasi said (on the radio a few minutes ago) that “You don’t want to depend on a young player in a penant race.” So maybe we have to get knocked out of contention before we see Jones. He also said he was not negotiating an extension for Guillen.
The “point” that I am arguing, which I never saw any concession about, is that somehow people are personally attacking people when evaluating their ability or lack thereof.
[]
141. On KJR, Bavasi said just the opposite, that he was looking for a veteran utility guy and that having Jones in reserve did not enter into his thinking.
#241: Bavasi told Geoff Baker that Jones will be up in a week.
“Bavasi said (on the radio a few minutes ago) that “You don’t want to depend on a young player in a penant race.””
Good crap, that’s a dumb blanket statement.
“Can we ever have a civilized discussion that doesn’t turn into a pro-AJ and anti-Raul/Vidro circle jerk?”
Sure, call up AJ and platoon Raul… poof, done.
As to the second part, everyone seems perfectly content to discuss, you always seem to be the one that turns it ugly.
Flipping Mateo for a guy who can walk on water. Brilliant!
No one here is arguing that Jones wouldn’t be a defensive upgrade in LF. I know I’m not. What’s becoming tedious is the non-stop trashing of everything Ibanez does which has gone beyond analysis of defensive skills into mindless naysaying. And magnifying Jones’ defensive skills into the second coming of Junior isn’t fair to him either.
When Raul makes a hell of a play to save a couple of runs, tip your cap and say thanks even if you want him replaced. Don’t be so goddamn pissy about his very existence in left field.
248 – Or… and this is just a suggestion… you be whatever you want to be about Raul’s play last night and you let others be the way they want to be.
It’s ok to think that was a good play or not. It’s ok to be upset if you think he’s getting too much credit for something he is, overall, terrible at.
And the problem is that many people still believe Raul is a good defender… so you convince all of them that he isn’t and people will stop feeling the need to point it out.
Bottom line is that the club is being very dim about a few decisions and some people don’t feel like throwing Raul a surprise party for doing his job well once in a while.
But you feel free to be happy and excited… but if you don’t understand why others are not, then you are way too wrapped up in it.
I think it’s silly to say “You don’t want to depend on a young player in a pennant race” when both Betancourt and Lopez are our starting middle infielders. They have thrived on this stage so far.
I must admit, I find it a little mean-spirited for people to say “God that was lucky” or “thank goodness it was right at him” when a bad fielder makes a good play. But I think a “tip of the cap” probably does describe exactly what those folks were offering to Raul. Most said “nice play, but…” which did recognize the effort involved.
If Raul is your childhood friend or you’re face to face with the guy, I’m sure anyone would be more conventionally polite. But really, among rabid sports fans? Seems like the USSM treatment is about as good as a failing player can expect.
Besides, everyone knows that it’s Willie Bloomquist that I really hate.
I’m even linked back from his Wikipedia entry for calling him “Princess Willie” even though I’m pretty sure I’m not the person that originally coined that.