Game 113, Mariners at White Sox
Dave · August 10, 2007 at 4:22 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Washburn vs Vazquez, 5:11 pm.
John McLaren hates us. And winning, apparently. Sexson at first, Ibanez in left, Jones and Broussard to the bench.
If the M’s were an NBA official, we could convict them of throwing games with ease.
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You’re kidding me. Mr. Fly-ball-to-left Washburn on the mound and you play Ibanez?
What. the. F***.
I’m beginning to like this team. Three years ago I didn’t think Bavasi could build a successful team. But he is proving me and his doubters wrong. I like our chances against LAA.
I would like them more if Bavasi could solve the problem of pitching spots #4 and #5. Note: LAA has allowed 506 runs and Seattle has allowed 544. (Both play in pitchers parks.)
Compare back-end pitchers :
Angels
Ervin Santana 6.22 ERA, 5.04 xFIP in 111 IP. Currently in the minors.
Bartolo Colon 6.72 ERA, 4.77 xFIP in 85 innings. Currently fat.
Moseley , 4.93 ERA, 4.74 xFIP in 66 innings. His starts have been horrible.
Joe Saunders, 3.46 ERA, 4.93 xFIP in 55 innings.
Mariners
Weaver, 6.20 ERA, 5.29 xFIP in 90 innings.
HoRam, 7.12 ERA, 5.29 xFIP in 67 innings.
Advantage: Slight advantage to Angels. Key: Can Joe Saunders pitch that well the rest of the season?
Compare front-end pitchers:
Jered Weaver, 4.44 RA, 4.97 xFIP in 107 innings
Escobar, 3.10 RA, 4.31 xFIP in 145 innings
Lackey, 3.70 RA, 4.22 xFIP in 153 innings
Washburn, 4.64 RA, 5.20 xFIP in 136 innings. (2006 xFIP – 5.35)
Batista, 4.71 RA, 5.09 xFIP in 134 innings. (2006 xFIP – 4.88)
Felix, 4.04 RA, 3.19 xFIP in 125 innings (2006 xFIP – 3.56)
Advantage: Clear advantage to Angels. Key: Can Washburn and Batista outpitch Weaver?
The Mariners can win the division if their hitting can stay even with the Angels while the pitchers outperform their norms.
Not sure how those numbers paint a nice picture, silence, but good on ya for being so optimistic…
I’m sure getting tired of Mac’s lineups making me feel like Homer Simpson.
“Doh! Son of a…………..”
Leaving aside the Jones/Ibanez travesty, Vasquez is a right hander… what happened to the Broussard platoon?
Me, I’m hoping for a steady downpour of balls on Ibanez’s head tonight so we can see in more detail just how useless a fielder he is. Twenty sounds about right, with a couple of errors, nine doubles, and three triples.
Yes, we’ll lose the game but we’ll come out ahead in the long run if Jones stays in the field all the rest of the season.
John McLaren and I have one thing in common. He makes us both cry.
What is the lineup?
Three hits, four runs, a walk, a great defensive play, and two of those hits were absolute shots, only one was even a little bloopy (and it was a line drive too)…what the fuck else can he do? What? I demand to know.
8 –
Ichiro cf
Jose Vidro dh
Jose Guillen rf
Raul Ibanez lf
Adrian Beltre 3b
Richie Sexson 1b
Kenji Johjima c
Jose Lopez 2b
Yuniesky Betancourt ss
Jarrod Washburn p
10- Thx
I saw that on gameday but I thought Guillen’s hand was too swollen to play so I was hoping they were wrong, thanks for starting out the weekend on a high note Johnny Mac
At least Turbo doesn’t take the field, man I hate that it is the best thing I can see in that lineup.
Oh, I get it. Raul’s finally shaken his season-long slump and will now “carry the team on his back” for the next month. And because of Sexson’s recent singles barrage he’s apparently ready to take up some of the heavy lifting himself. VETERAN POWER!
P.S. Mac, please voluntarily remove yourself from managerial consideration next season. You will only bring misery and suffering to the masses.
To me, the really annoying thing about tonight’s lineup is that Sexson is in there and Broussard is on the bench.
There is too much hand-wringing about the lineup! Washburn has not pitched a good game in a month. (Game scores of 43, 40, 39, 42, and 44)
What is wrong with Washburn?
This team is run by idiots.
Please don’t hold back with Groz today, Dave.
Well maybe it’s the fact that he’s always been a marginal fly ball pitcher who doesn’t miss bats and the ball tends to carry further in the summer? I could be missing something though, oh yeah we keep running out a crappy lineup that involves two outfielders who can’t run trying to chase all those flyballs he gives up, that’s it.
I just checked out Baker’s blog. Apparently, this was what John Mac thought about HoRam’s outing yesterday
“You know what? Take away a couple of pitches, and his outings have been pretty good,” McLaren said.
OMG
Angry Dave is going to appear on KJR with Groz today. McLaren better be glad that they don’t get KJR in Chicago.
Apparently if McLaren had said, as Hargrove did, that Eddie Guardado was still his closer, Eddie Guardado would still have been the closer.
18 – whaddya want? HoRam to feel bad about being the suckiest pitcher who ever sucked? Hate to hurt his feelings…
19 WHOO HOO, thanks Dave, you are our voice!
WHOO-HOO! Angry Dave Rocks!
Fight the good fight, Dave!
But remember that Bavasi butters your bread.
When’s Richie gonna hit lead-off Mac?
When’s Adam Jones gonna get designated for assisgnment Bavasi?
Strong silence – what’s that supposed to mean?
They do realize that Richie Sexson in completely finished, right?
This roster has too much dead weight and it’s manager too much dead space between the ears…
Half of tonight’s lineup is at best not a negative: Ibanez and Sexson are net negatives on the RS/RA, Guillen and Lopez are teetering on treading water. At least Vidro isn’t playing defense.
Say I own two cars. One is new, runs great, is comfy, quick, and reliable. The other is more than ten years old, has well over 100k miles, occasionally doesn’t start, runs rough, and has lost a couple seconds off the 0-60 time.
Yet the older car was good and mostly reliable for many years. Despite regular tune-ups and replacement of old parts it still has many problems.
Now, I can drive either car on a regular basis. Maybe the old one is a bit more familiar, but I’d have to be damned stupid to prefer that old car as a daily driver over the new one, even if the new model has unproven long-term reliability.
What happened to AJ starting in right for Guillen?
From Larry Stone:
You’ve got to say this about John McLaren: He’s been consistent on this. Even in the afterglow of Jones’s breakout game Thursday in Baltimore, the manager was dropping hints, saying that he wasn’t going to force Jones into the lineup. It seemed like he wouldn’t have to, because Guillen’s finger was swollen and sore after being hit by a Daniel Cabrera fastball. Guillen’s a tough guy, though. He played for a month in 2003 with a broken bone in his hand and hit .455 in the Division Series for the A’s. He told McLaren he could play, and so McLaren put him in the lineup.
28 – Unfortunately they’re not going to realize that till his contract is finished, well they’re at least not going to admit it.
Guillen and Lopez are teetering on treading water.
I think you’re mixing metaphors there, but I think DMZ only deletes for grammar and punctuation so you might be safe.
Dave is on KJR after their commercial break. (Couple minutes)
/end friendly reminder
Not going to force him into the lineup….that’s asinine.
I’m sorry but baseball guys need to be eradicated from a game that has passed their ilk by…
If this is how it gets represented, Old School is becoming a derogatory term….
Come on Ichiro…do your job, jeese man. Take some friggin pitches.
So for some positive news, the A’s are beating the Tigers 8 to 1 in the fourth.
Having lived as a casual M’s fan for much of my life, I never seemed to notice the day-to-day ineptitude. However, since moving away from Seattle, I have become increasingly more passionate (I think rooting for Seattle teams helps me connect to the city I so miss) and as such, have begun losing large patches of hair (I’m only 22 for God’s sake). Having discovered USSM in recent months, I’m glad to see that our fan base at least is not full of incompetent morons (as seems to be the case with our front office)
As for the recent, and mind-boggling, trends in the lineup, I think it is time M’s fan drew upon their inner-Tonya Harding and took the Richie situation into our own hands. By all accounts, he’s a good guy, but enough is enough, I blame Grover and the Mac for putting us in this situation, but it’s too late now, something must be done.
Not all mixed metaphors are undesirable…especially when they add meaning like say when they are used to suggest that someone is on the verge of being neutral….
Well, it felt good to get that off my chest.
Looks to be a low-scoring game. Good RHP against McLaren’s Lineup o’ Veteran Wisdom on one side and a mediocre pitcher vs. the worst offensive lineup in the AL on the other.
At least our outfield defense will be 33% awesome.
Nice work, Dave.
Nice work Dave. Sounded great.
Nice work, Dave.
It’s a good thing that wouldn’t have been a home-run, because I doubt Guillen could jump that high.
It felt good to LISTEN to you get that off your chest!
Sexson;great play at first.
Best Groz segment yet. That was great.
No, because they’ve seen too many players have bad years in their 30s and then come back.
Mind you, I think there’s a good possibility he’s done, and he should be platooned this year, but there’s some basis for their thoughts.
Raul mvp for series in Baltimore-7 for 14;3 homers
…yet another hit
Good radio spot, Dave. It sounds like Groz is really starting to buy into what you’re telling him also, which is good. I don’t think the Mariners are going to change until more mainstream voices keep telling them they suck at talent evaluation.
Way to be crtical yet classy, Dave. Nice job.
Only caught the last couple of minutes, but Groz clearly think the world of you, and of the blog. A few more converts and we’ll have the mainstream media all over the Mariners management for their incompetence (there’s no nice word for it).
Seriously, Jones is the 3rd or 4th best position player they have, yet Ibanez, Vidro, Sexson, AND Vidro start ahead of him. Not much choice with Betancourt or Lopez.
Ibanez is on fire!!
A prediction
[nuked, spelling]
So how many home runs does Washburn give up tonight?
He just about gave them one in the first, I’m gonna say at least 2.
is there a link to Dave’s spot yet?
I didn’t hear Dave’s segment. Can someone give a brief recap?
It’s very unusual to see Sexson hit into a dp like that.
Who could have seen THAT coming?
Sexson facing real pitching:
0-1 ground into DP
there’s Sexson… he’s consistently terrible, I’ll hand that to him.
Yech. What is McLaren doing??? Broussard at least occasionally produces…
60-
Pretty much the same as every week. Jones should be playing.
Also, they hit on ManRam pitching and how he shouldn’t be.
I find it hard to understand why Mclaren wont keep an offense out there that works, i mean, AJ scored 4 runs? what does that tell you? Now u put our slumpy seconds out on the field? Well ill guess we will just have to sit here and hope to god we dont get disapointed.
Good thing most of these fly balls are going to right field. That’s not gonna last though.
I also want a recap of the interview.
Sexson, on that foulball, just looked so uncoordinated while running for it.
Dave with Groz recap:
Groz – Dave, where the hell is Adam Jones?
Dave – #*)@#%Y#)%#@U%%
Groz – What about Ben Broussard? Isn’t Vazquez a righty?
Dave – $#*$)@#$#!(#%@
Groz – I thought the David Wells thing made a lot of sense
Dave – $#$(#)%#!%*&)
Groz – Horacio Ramirez really isn’t very good, is he?
Dave – !$#())^$@!)(%*@
Groz – What about John Parrish?
Dave – #*%#*%^))%@*
Groz – Thanks for coming on, Dave
Be careful Dave… Derek might delete that for spelling.
Okay well there’s one.
Well that’s one way to mask the poor defense in left…
Live by the fly…..die by the fly….
Gee, I couldn’t see that coming. It’s not like all of Washburn’s outs have been 380 foot flyouts so far or anything.
Adam Jones could have caught that.
The first of many to come. The man is incapable of groundballs.
…..do we really need to say anything about this game tonight? we already know whats goin to happen with Jwashup on the mound.
Nice recap Dave.
#76: LOL!!!
Did I just hear “Pain in the nuts” on FSN?
See, I don’t get that pitch. Full count, two outs, Dye is at the plate. He knows that he has to put a full swing on it, because a single doesn’t do him much good. Jarrod: RISK THE WALK. Put the ball in the dirt, because he’s probably going to swing at it. If he doesn’t, you’ve only put him on first. I don’t know the WPA change for putting someone on first with two outs, but I’m fairly certain it’s less than giving up a home run.
I swear Niehaus just said “Juan Uribe has always been a real pain in the nuts to the Mariners” LOL
Has there every been another team whose fans are more excited by a “due up next inning” lineup of their 7-9 hitters than when it is their 4-6 hitters? I think this has to be virtually unprecedented.
JOHHHHHHHHHJIIIIIIIIII
Kenji Johjima > Jermaine Dye
Also, Fangraphs showed that our win percentage went DOWN from Raul’s Single.
Whoo for the Kenji turnaround! I’ll even give McLaren a little props for resting him yesterday after all that Baltimore heat.
SUGOI IPPATSU!
Did anyone see what field it went to? I missed it.
#83
That is what I thought I heard to. LOL
Rested legs Joh for the win!
What is Funk Blast in Japanese again?
Case in point. Johjima rules.
How sweet would it be if Niehaus entered that old-man-Tourrettes phase of life where guys just don’t give a crap what they say or to whom? “Sexson juuuust plain STINKS out there, doesn’t he, Dave? Heh heh!”
Oh, wait…I’m retarded. I was reading the Fangraphs wrong.
Hey, McLaren! Think that could work for Raul?!
I know I come down with Tourette’s Syndrome whenever I see Sexson at the plate
I don’t think Angry Dave was Angry enough.
I agree msb
Ok Turbo if ever there was a time for one of your patented singles.
Vidj’s “magic” appears done. Caput.
Outfield fringe power!
Raul has a pain in the nuts; rest him.
Not what I was hoping for
Oh wait I forgot that part of the patent includes runners not being in scoring position, my bad.
Dear Bill,
The good folks that run UssMariner.com practically begged you to trade Sexson this last offseason.
hes is missing high toooo much
Elvis has really let himself go since dying.
Did anyone else’s gameday stop showing the pitch trajectory, PFx, Speed, etc?
comon. jesus.
Okay guess I’ll have to adjust my estimate because he’s given up 2 already.
in terms of offense vs offense there is no reason or way we should lose this game. I mean come on they have no one above 280 BA, if we dont put something together soon, wash is goin to lose it, and as im typing this i look down and all i see is “in play, run(s)”,
damn……………
Washburn picked a bad night to regress to the mean in terms of road home-runs.
you know, I love Mike Veeck, but the exploding scoreboard on every home run is a bit much.
#107
That looked like Rosie O’Donnell dressed in an Elvis costume.
*108, it was earlier, but now it cut out.
Home Run Derby time.
#113– um, Bill. Mike Veeck was ‘Disco Demolition Day’
I didn’t realize the ChiSox had such a Murderer’s Row.
111: Their team average is actually .003 higher. And, as better numbers OBP is .005 higher and slugging is equal. Over the season thier offense has been almost a perfect match to ours.
115 Mine too, that’s weird, I know some of the stadiums don’t have the cameras, but obviously we wouldn’t have gotten them earlier, maybe they broke or something. Well I’ve got a quick walk home till I can watch on TV now anyways. Please Washburn let’s keep them at 2 in the meantime.
lets go bats.. keep it up.
I haven’t given up on this game yet. Due to the lineup I realize we are going to have to overcome all sorts of sabermetric probabilities but here is to hoping.
Gah, complete shut down, looking at the wrong team. Sorry about that, nuke post 119 please. Too much obsessing about the Angels on my part.
god damn the tigers were down 8-1 now there up 9-8.
Their team average is actually .003 higher. And, as better numbers OBP is .005 higher and slugging is equal. Over the season thier offense has been almost a perfect match to ours.
Huh? I thought the White Sox were at the bottom of the league offensively?
I know we whine about a lot of terrible commentators, but I’ve always thought the White Sox had the worst. This is almost unbearable.
Did that go -through- the fence?
Haha, Raul!
I feel bad for Adam Jones.
Nice one, Rauul. You get two U’s back.
4 solo shots?
atta boy Raul!!! There is no reason to put him on the bench with a righty throwing keep your hot hitters in the lineup… Only arguement to having Jones playing would be having Ibanez DH…
Ibanez has entered Vidro territory. The man’s on fire.
ummmm? raul? is that you? who you been hangin out with lately?
I think we all want to keep Ibanez in the lineup, just not defensively.
RAUUUUUUUULL!!!
I don’t want to hear about AJ taking his place for at least couple of games now.
there we go.
You know, it almost seems like some of the problem posters don’t read the previous nights’ dialogue to make sure they’re not repeating past (failed) argument.
BIG RICHIE!!!
Can we teach him to run faster though?
Go Richie!
Er, arguments.
(Ha. Corrections are verboten! I received a paternalistic warning that I was posting comments too fast. That must exist only because of Corco, right?)
124-It doesn’t matter what the Tigers do, as long as the M’s take care of business.
Why cant we just get back to back hits i mean cmon seriously. Perfect scoring chance, and it gets shot down.
Personally I hope the Tigers and Yankees lose a lot coming down the stretch.
#137
If your refering to my Ibanez comment, sorry, but I cant spend every game watching and posting on-line simultaneously to keep up with the blog. Your just gonna have to put up with my Jose Guillen-esk philosophies.
I have a suggestion, Renegade – if you don’t want to hear about Adam Jones, leave. Seriously. You won’t be missed.
#144
LF Jones
DH Ibanez/Vidro
144: Do you honestly think that Ibanez isn’t a huge detriment in the field? Sure, he’s been hot, and I think we all want him to DH, or at least platoon DH… But Adam Jones has proven himself in the field and at the plate, and should definitely get the start 80% of the time.
Nice catch. So glad not to see those two go smash.
#144
Don’t think you’ve been reading period.
*sigh*
Uhh I don’t think anyone has ever advocated benching Raul, just having him platooned at DH with Vidro. Or just sit Vidro since Raul clearly hits for power and you need that at DH.
Gotta love Ichiro in center!
It is not Ibanez OR Jones.
It is Jones should be in left field.
Ibanez should DH against RHs.
He should not bat against LHs and he should not play in the field.
Why is that hard to understand?
I really meant cougs’ comment, but your use of “your” has now filled me with angst. Must go page through the dictionary and cry.
Too many branching decisions?
Actually, no. I dont think Ibanez is a huge dtrimate in the feild. I think the people that call for his head are impatient, band wagon jumpers. Ive watched probably 80-90 Ms games this year and I really dont see what you are talking about. Yes AJ is an upgrade. But you make Raul out as if Jabba the hut is chasing down fly balls in left.
Hahahahahaha
Grand slam against Detroit. So much for your comeback pussycats!
Was it Dye a few years ago that “broke” his knee from a foul tip off of it? It was an Oakland player, just forget who it was?
Too bad I’m broke right now or else I’d ship Dave a years worth of beer.
My hats off to you for your patience sir, though I’m sure it’s thin.
Oakland takes the lead!
158
No joke.
#144
I try to read the blog as much as I can, but I also got this thing called a life. Get one and you’ll know where I’m coming from. I still spend way to much time watching Ms games to be told I don’t keep up.
I try to read the blog as much as I can, but I also got this thing called a life. Get one and you’ll know where I’m coming from.
Isn’t it Excessive Penalty Week?
You talk to yourself much, Renegade?
So does anyone think the Mariners might be looking for an upgrade at 2nd base some point in the near future? Lopez is pretty frustrating at the plate..
Renegade you’re treading on thin ice, be careful when you’re insulting the blog and/or its readers
155-Raul has atleast 5 errors in LF this year. He’s not exactly in the chase for a Gold Glove! AJ is a HUGE improvement in the field, however, I don’t think that he should be platooning with Vidro @ DH. AJ is fine spelling Raul & Ichiro, with the latter being every once in a great while.
155: Raul was a decent LF last year, maybe even slightly above average. But this year with his bad legs, he has nowhere near the range he did, and has fallen to bottom 5 LF in the MLB.
# 145
Ditto. I got just as much a right to say my part as you.
Renegade,
And Dave, Derek, and the other USSM contributors don’t have a life? The guys offer up an amazing service to us, and yet you want to prance around like a school-child sticking out your tongue. It’s not a right to post here, it’s a privilege.
164-No. Lopez is signed thru 2012, along w/ Yuni.
166: AJ may be fine with it (doubtful). But I don’t think we can afford NOT having AJ’s bat and defense if we want to keep in this chase.
167
Ummm… no.
Gong!
I have a question, i am still kind of new, but why is vidro called turbo?
168
No, you don’t. This is HIS blog. You’re a guest. Now act like one.
Raul was a decent LF last year, maybe even slightly above average.
Raul was atrocious in the field last year.
Renegade’s gone.
I have a question, i am still kind of new, but why is vidro called turbo?
Because of his blazing speed.
I got just as much a right to say my part as you
Okay, that made me laugh.
174
Because of his unparalleled speed
I know everyone’s busy typing this, but no, Auto Renegade. Dave is one of the people who owns, pays for, and maintains this site, so he can actually verbally abuse anyone he pleases anytime he pleases, if he cares to. Your rights are not equivalent.
I have been checking out this site for a couple of weeks now and all I see is Jones in Left Field argument. Don’t you guys get sick of arguing the same thing?
Thank you, Dave.
I feel an extra base hit comin.
@174 Same reason why some large people have the nickname of Tiny.
Dave,
Why dont you guys have a site that earns you money? You’d probably make a decent amount with ads. You guys seem to have a good amount of hits.
Nice job Vidro
Well, you don’t keep up, your argument has already been made and lost.
Ibanez is the 2nd worst outfielder in the AL, he only turns 79% of the balls in his zone into outs. The only person he’s better than is Manny Ramirez, and that’s not good.
Consider the Raul probably costs us 20+ runs a season from his shoddy defense, then say that again.
Great sac fly!
185 – lol ok
182 – not really, because jones deserves to start and he isn’t getting as many chances as he should.
Meanwhile there’s a pretty interesting baseball game going on out there.Nice sacrifice.
Feel free to read the archives, dude. We’ve been writing about this team since before they even drafted Adam Jones. Unfortunately, do an influx of idiots, we’ve had to spend way too much time trying to deal with people who think this blog is their personal space to bring the conversation down to a third grade level. We’re in the process of eliminating those people.
What’s the record for sacrifice flys in a two-game span by Jose Vidro?
182 Actually we’re sick of seeing inferior players get at bats when others have greater skills and would give the team a better chance of getting a win. Nothing’s a lock, mind you, as baseball is all probabilities. But if you understand that, then you’ll get it.
Dave, I apologize. I do read the blog. I like Adam Jones. IN fact I was at his first game against the BoSox and screamed as hard as anyone when he reached base his first 3 time up. I’m not trying to pick a fight.
Just realized Washburn is pitching a 2 hitter.
A sac fly that scores the run is the expected behavior in that situation, and Vidro achieved it. I’m good with that. Yay lead!
What the HECK was that?!?
197 That was a nice play by Uribe and bad decision by Ichiro.
Smart play by Uribe. He wasn’t going to get Guillen at first.
Vidro got the job done AGAIN. Enough with all the Vidro bashing, this guy can seriously rake. /sarcasm
Gameday viewers need an explanation.
GO Ms!!
that was Ichiro’s tribute to the Little League World Series.
Can’t really blame Ichiro on that because he probably had no idea that Guillen had a good chance of being safe at 1st.
Ichiro hasnt been running great the last couple days. Makes Vidro look like a great baserunner. (if thats possible)
Without getting into VidroLove, it is a relief to see him having a stretch where he’s not Mr GIDP, since the M’s are bound and determined to leave him in. And thank god he’s not on the field.
It was a slow roller to Uribe who faked the throw to first and caught Ichiro breaking toward third.
Ichiro runs on the pitch, Guillen hits a slow grounder to Uribe. As Uribe picks up the ball Ichiro decides he’s going to straight for 3rd without stopping. Uribe realizes that he has no chance to throw to 1st and holds on to the ball. Therefore Ichiro is caught between 2nd and 3rd.
Heh. Good move, Wash….
I’m sure I missed all the talk about it, but does anyone know why Captain Idiot, aka Bavasi, traded for another lefty to come out of the ‘pen? Even if they wanted to send Lowe to Tacoma, couldn’t they bring some one else up or is there not another righty on the 40-man roster?
201, Ground ball to short, Ichiro took the turn at second and kept running, assuming the throw was going to go to first but there was no play there so they got him caught in a pickle. Never seen that before.
Every Washburn batter ever-
Miss high, high strike, miss high, miss high, high strike, fly ball or home run.
re 209
The Tacoma bullpen is a bit thin…there’s really no one there to bring up.
re 209
The Tacoma bullpen is a bit thin…there’s really no one there to bring up. And Lowe needed the work, really, to regain strength.
Oakland came back and took the lead from the Tigers. They are now up 16 to 9.
Oakland came back and took the lead from the Tigers. They are now up 16 to 9.
It looks like the Raiders decided to try a different approach to making the playoffs…
I checked out the Tigers forum on mlb.com earlier today. They’re ready to jump off a ledge over there.
lol 215
So pretty obviously there are 2 issues with tonight’s lineup: Jones/Ibanez/Vidro contending for 2 spots and Sexson v. Broussard at 1B. The first is a no-brainer (Jones LF, Ibanez DH), but I have a question about the second.
Richie, as bad as he’s been, was 9/24 with .924 OPS v. Vasquez coming into the game, so I can understand the decision to play him. But is this a hopelessly small sample size, or (more generally) do the data support the idea that a particular hitter really can be dialed into a given pitcher (or vice versa)?
Feel free to point me at the right link, if it exists…
What’s even better about the Tigers game is their bullpen is absolutely wrecked for tomorrow too.
You know what I think? I think Uribe forgot how many outs there were.
I think he had a play at first, but saw Ichiro behind him.
I didn’t have a great angle, but that play didn’t seem slow enough to eliminate a play at first.
216 Can’t blame them, that rotation is just falling apart lately.
Nothing like an 8-run inning.
I don’t think that I ever heard what was up with Baek. I know that he’s on the DL, but is he out for the year?
Sorry, .954
Er, referring to the A’s, that comment about 8 runs.
I don’t know if you guys were aware of this, but the reason Ichiro got out on the basepaths was because Juan Uribe was “not afraid.”
Danny Richar is equally awesome because he, too, is “not afraid.”
One awesome thing about listening to Hawk Harrelson is you learn a ton.
Instead of giving out rally fries, will they give away an add-on hot dog?
hmmm
whats goin on with game cast i though we were winning? now it says Chi sox 3 mariners 2 and the chi sox hit 2 home runs in the 2nd inning,
Is it me or has Beltre been really agressive at the plate lately? Swinging at a lot of 1st pitches.
I can write the sports headline for tomorrow’s NY newspapers. Some guy/girl on the night desk can take the night off.
The Kids are Alright
Hughes and Chamberlain, 8 inn’s, 10 k’s, 1 bb, 1 er
I’d be happy as a clam to make 15 million dollars for hitting .200.
230 Gamecast also says Ichiro has a home run!
225: I don’t know this blog’s opinion on Baek… I like his pitching style a lot, and he would be a big improvement over Ho-Ram were he healthy. I don’t know on his condition, but last I heard he was improving slowly.
I know I’m not alone, but dang I’m tired of watching Sexson hit feeble balls into the infield like he was, well, ME.
wooo go game cast!!!!
Good lord
Ichiro doesn’t dive for balls, but he will climb for them.
C’mon Wash! Really? 3 dongs tonight?
There’s the 3rd dinger.
Get him outta there pleeeease.
Another home run ;(
Geez.
Good try though Ichi.
236: I can relate, that’s how I hit, too. hahaha…
236 Be happy he’s making contact. It’s a step in the right direction.
And it’s an extra-long batting practice for Josh Fields tonight.
I really don’t think Guillen would have been safe at first. Guillen is pretty sloth-like on base paths. I suspect Uribe was just taking the ‘free’ out.
Ichiro was determined to get to that one. Looking like spiderman on that CF wall.
A little easier on the body…
Ichiro was literally standing on the wall on that play. Anyone else see that?
Yup, Washburn’s road HR rate is coming back to earth like a low-bid NASA project.
Hughes and Chamberlain, 8 inn’s, 10 k’s, 1 bb, 1 er
The greatest franchise in baseball history playing young studs its their “proven veterans”? They’ll never be successful doing stuff like that.
I thought for a second Ichiro was going to keep going and start sprinting up the aisle
RE: 252
that should say “instead of,” not “its.” My bad.
Yankee veterans need a box of Kleenex
How high can an outfielder climb? Can they really stand on top of the wall and catch a ball there? It would be cool to see.
Our outfielders won’t need to do wind sprints tomorrow anyway
Whats the score now cuz gamecast and yahoo are all messed up
Can you name this M’s minor leaguer?
POS G AB R H B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG OPS E
OF 112 464 74 134 25 4 11 52 200 38 62 10 8 .343 .431 .289 .774 1
258-all tied up
259: Jeremy Reed?
#257….
BWAH HAH HAH!
That and Dave’s recap are the gems of the day…
Yeah MLB.tv is messed up too. its 3-3. And 256, I think if you make the catch its an out, just like when guys dive into foul territory.
261 is correct. Why not trade the guy while they still have a chance. Couldn’t they get a minor league pitcher for him? There’s no shot of him playing with the big club.
One of these days Ichiro may climb the wall to rob a home run, then launch the ball back in for the double play because a runner wasn’t watching and assumed it was out.
256 – You cannot be in HR territory to catch a home run.
Well I’m pretty sure there’s a rule that once both feet are in the stands, you can’t catch it but I wonder if I’m making that up. Otherwise Ichiro could have kept running up through the stands on that one.
Nice double safe there.
EEEEVerybody safe
Luckily Vazquez can’t throw to second.
266-if the fielder is in fair territory, including on the fence, the play would result in an out; beyond the yellow line is considered out of play or home run.
Haha sweet.
Wow, that was a botched double play. 1-6-3 everyone safe.
They went threw the motions, but didn’t get anything out of it. It just made me squeal like a little girl.
I love playing bad teams. Way to botch that one Sox!
atta boy Yuni!!!!!!
What a horrible moment for a sac that was.
That might have been McClaren’s first ever sensible bunt.
Vidro coming on with the bases loaded and 1 out, let’s see what he can do.
Uh oh. Turbo up.
Yeah that was not predictable.
277 & 278: I agree with both of you 100%
Ok, bases loaded, one out, we’d better get a run here Turbo.
Normally i’d support a sac bunt in this case – two on, no out, tie game late.
But i don’t think it’ll work out this time. just a hunch
Ill confess. I hardly ever think sac bunts are worth it.
Not made as a general comment about bunting AT ALL, mind you.
I love playing bad teams.
I was just about to say that. The Orioles series was tough to watch just because the O’s are such an ugly team. They give away outs like they’ve got too many. Nice to see the White Sox doing the same.
Hm. Gameday appears to be on crack tonight. It used to claim 3-2 Chi. Now it’s 3-2 Sea. Nice trick, that.
Must be Sexson and Ibanez’s veteranosity that does it.
Fabian Williamson, Jacob Wild, and Travis Mortimore. Are any of these guys going to be any good? Anyone know about them?
Come on Turbo, lean into that!
About sac-bunts. I remember reading somewhere that the average score for an inning with a runner on first, no outs is 1.1 runs, and for a runner on second with one out, it’s .9 runs. Or somewhere around there. I’m not sure about this particular situation though.
Just lean over the plate Vidro! It worked for Everett/Eckstein…
Vidro has got to let that one hit him…his legs don’t do anything anyway.
Here we go with the sacrifice bunt discussion again.
Fox sports on MSN seems to have the correct game info.
Good work Vidro. We need a big hit here. NO DOUBLE PLAYS.
294: Did I say something wrong >_>
I predict walk btw.
Is there a magnet on Turbo’s jersey? The ball is fading into him./
Too bad about the failed check swing on the second inside pitch or we’d be winning.
It’s better than a the millionth discussion about why Jones should be playing and why Vidro sucks.
Turbust.
Balls.
Why slide there? Run the catcher over damnit.
Please! Matt Thornton!
Thank god for terrible infielding.
wow that was lucky for them.
AND DID YOU SEE Perzizsky (spelling) helping Kenji up. Thats not like him.
Here comes a base knock. Or maybe a HBP
dude, take one for the team jose.
Take it for the team, Guillen!
Come on take one for the team Jose!
Damn, nothing. :/
That has to hit him in the head. Guillen is tough.
Why in the hell is Guillen batting third, again?
Goddammit. What incompetent hitting.
OK, bunting ALWAYS sucks. Sample size: 1.
Absolutely horrible. They might as well have tried the McLaren squeeze with Vidro
arggghhh!
Washburns in too long.
Oh boy the new pitcher is warming up! Wait why am I excited?
Washburn needs to get out now before he gives up another HR.
Wow. Raul with the pseudo skills
Ral trying to do his best Jones impersonation.
Wow Rauul had a good play there.
Jones woulda caught that behind the back, lol.
jk nice play Raul.
Ibanez is like Willy in the infield -he dives for everything cuz he can’t get to anything.
When’d they sub in Jon- oh. Never mind.
I feel sorry for Sox fans who have to listen to their nightly broadcasts….
That was kinda nice…Im watching this on my computer, thought it bounced, and thought that his throw was to second. That would have made sense.
I hate being right all the time.
WAY TO GO RAL!
Alright get Jones in there
that’s why Jones should be playing LF. Raul has gone down twice this week.
Adam Jones… sigh…
SHIT WASHBURN HE SHOULDA BEEN OUT TOO. yuni did it again.
Damn, Raul… How was that tag miised?
How can Yuni be so good and so bad sometimes
Ibanez being Ibanez
nice play raul!
Good play on Kenji trying to get the tag though.
Raul actually probably helped the team by falling over like a drunkard because it at least got the ball in Ichiro’s hand.
Can we just clone Ichiro at this point? Seriously…eliminate the rest of the team.
Oh he was out.
Dang, good throw gets him.
335:
good: fielding.
bad: throwing
Let the Raul recriminations begin in earnest…
Yuni never seems to make that relay throw to home
336: I think that should be a shirt that Ibanez should wear much like Man Ram wearing, “Manny being Manny.”
This game is giving me chest pains. First I smash my pinky in a drawer this morning, then my car breaks down on the way to work, then this game – too much. Too much incompetence.
Great defense, there. Two crappy fielding plays for the price of one!
Watching this on MLB.tv is soooo tough. These guys are sooo biased. One of the guys was begging…literally begging the ball to stay fair.
M’s starter + over 100 pitches + seventh inning = Pumpkin
And yet Washburn is still in the game, proving that McLaren really does not like to win.
Good thing Ichiro had backup.
Oh wait.
if only Ichiro practiced those dives, perhaps he could have made the catch.
Bad luck.
WTF is washburn still in for?
COME ON! MAC
And just as I write that….
Hyperkarmic punishment for that craptastic last offensive inning, Mac.
Did Mac have money on the over/under on this game? Is that why he left Wash out there for so long?
And Ichiro is backed up by….Ichiro “Bugs Bunny” Suzuki.
So Mac didn’t notice Washburn’s crap getting crushed in 6th. He had to see the 7th to make sure Washburn was done? Makes me sick.
I hate throwing away completely winnable games. Not that it’s over, but we really should have the lead at this point.
Yunieksy Betancourt has got to have the worst relay throw accuracy in MLB. 2 days in a row a throw has been airmailed.
At least our bullpen doesn’t suck ass.
Too bad our best offense isn’t playing or we might’ve won. But after that Orioles series McLaren is going to need another 10 games to realize it.
Why isnt JONES UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!??
For the love of god, matchups
Ral should have been sitting after that display in LF. This should be Jones’ at bat.
OK. Not Pinch hitting here is stuuuuupid.
These guys are sooo biased.
I really dislike these commentators because they blather about nonsense, but their the White Sox guys. Why wouldn’t they be biased? They’re supposed to be.
McLaren is going to need another 10 games to realize it
I don’t think McLaren’s learning curve is as short as 10 games when it comes to finding the men’s room.
Hmm… woulda been a good time for a PH.
Obviously McLaren doesn’t know what he doesn’t know or want to know.
Is not knowing how to read a splits chart a requirement to manage the M’s?
OK i dont care if he got a hit. Jones needs to hit there.
Howzabout a PR, at least?
C’mon Ral, time to summon all of that pent-up veteran leadership.
Raul Ibanez: +1 with the bat, -2 with the glove. Net = -1. Good thing outfield defense doesn’t matter that much.
Ha Ha. Well Rauuuul saying shut up bitches. Ok for the love of god pinch run for him.
They should have Willie Run for Raul here and save Jones for Sexson.
I’m not sure how much more of McLaren I can stand. He can’t even grasp the concepts of elementary management. Baffling stuff.
Sweet Jones got the record for runs in a game for a rookie. Thats pretty impressive.
Wow what i would give for an Adrian homerun right about this inning,
I have to concur about the biased announcing, when Ibanez hit that the announcer said something like “that might stay up… come on… no, that’s a single”. They can at least pretend to be objective.
They won’t PH Jones for Sexson with Broussard available.
nice rip. Rauls run doesnt matter so save willie and jones.
now would be a REALLY good time for a PH.
Richie better come through. It’s a requirement.
Do you really let Sexson hit in this situation?
…..Really?
And they don’t even PH him with Broussard. I don’t like out chances.
377: Well, I can’t anymore. Since 150 years ago.
381: Remove “Jones” and “with Broussard available” and you’ve encapsulated McLaren’s management philosophy.
This is batshit crazy! How are we letting Sexson hit in a spot like this?
Sexson HR? He’s due, right?
Cant believe it. Or wait yes I can
You have got to be kidding me.
And that’s exactly why you don’t.
That was down the middle for ritchie.
That was insane.
No. I’ wouldn’t have PH Broussard at all there!(sarcasm)…
The reason richie stayed in is because Mac “hopes” that richie will break out of his slump and “carry” our team to victories.
That’s a bad call!!!
So Sexson loses another game for the Mariners. What else is new?
you know what?
I don’t think Richie is coming out of it.
McLaren deserves to get fired. Seriously.
Aah, this game is making me feel seriously ill.
You know, I wasn’t sure what to make at first of the strong opinions a lot of the folks on this blog have. It sounded like a lot of arrogance.. Well, I give in.
I now officially don’t think Mac has a damn clue. His faith in his veterans I’m sure will make him very popular with his players, but he absolutely is not making the right calls on personnel to help the team. It’s bloody criminal. Even the casual fans have figured this out by now — reading between the lines it feels like even Niehaus is thinking along those lines but can’t say it outright.
No need to list all of the bad since we all know it by heart. But Jesus…
Is there truly anyone on this board who thinks McLaren should keep his job after his decisions tonight? I am stunned. Almost into silence.
Richie: please, for the love of Jehovah, voluntarily remove thyself from the line-up. Thou doth hurteth the team with thy lame stick.
worst managed game ever. WTF IS HE DOING?
At least Parrish looked pretty good tonight.
But two runs off of Jenks? That’s a hell of a mountain to climb.
400-401: Sadly, the odds of Mac getting the boot are very, very slim.
It’s over…..tied w/ the Yankees. I hope Mac pulls his head out tomorrow. AJ in left, Raul @ DH and Vidro @ 2nd.
Beltre should pull Yuni aside and make him learn how to catch, plant and throw. His underhand throw is text book.
If he pinch hits Bloomquest for Lopez, I’m gonna hurl.
Is there anything we can do to educate M’s fans that we have by far the worst manager in baseball who has absolutely no clue what he is doing? I just can’t believe we are so close this year and we’re going to throw it away because of McLaren.
I miss Grover.
3-0 and now you strike out. come on.
damnit
410…McLaren is the worst, but he just needs to grow a backbone. I think that he’s too worried about what the players will think of him.
Group-what do you think about Dusty Baker coming here? They’ve been talking about it since Bo-Mel was canned. I personnally don’t want to see him here, but I wonder what everyone elses’s thought was.
Never thought I’d admit it but I miss Grover a bit too. But only a bit.
Break the streak sit these mother ******* down
AL record of 38 consecutive retired is held bt WHO?
F U Mac.
411-I never thought that another person would say that. I do too. I liked Grover, personally, since the day of hire. I couldn’t understand why so many people didn’t like him. I think that it was the results that they didn’t like
Just….baffling. You devote your whole life to baseball and you can’t even understand basic concepts central to winning games. For some reason McLaren thinks he is winning with the rotation he puts out there, yet he’s been exactly .500 with it, just where our run differential puts us at: and also out of the playoffs.
who has been talking about it?
I hope the M’s will get a flood of angry calls and emails tonight.
I think I’m going to go throw up now.
hard to believe it was only 7 LOB.
I don’t want Baker here. I don’t know who I’d want managing this team. Maybe Joe Girardi.
Unless Broussard was injured, there is no excuse for him not PHing for either Sexson or Lopez. Lopez is the weakest hitter on the M’s, and Mac let him lead off against Jenks. I am extremely disappointed with Mac’s managing ability. He is worse than Grover. It is sad to watch.
I just want a Manager to PLAY Jones.
that fat old pitcher the Ms don’t think would pitch better than HoRam.
What a horrible game, absolutly a horrible game. What is there to say other than that? we had bases loaded 1 out and we do nothing? Wash giving up homeruns? all around, im disapointed with this game.
421-I’ve heard it on Baseball Tonight & KJR, though it was a few months back. Peter Gammons mentioned it about a year ago, when everyone wanted Hargrove fired.
Sorry, late to the party…
Dave with Groz recap:
Groz – Dave, where the hell is Adam Jones?
Dave – #*)@#%Y#)%#@U%%
Groz – What about Ben Broussard? Isn’t Vazquez a righty?
Dave – $#*$)@#$#!(#%@
Groz – I thought the David Wells thing made a lot of sense
Dave – $#$(#)%#!%*&)
Groz – Horacio Ramirez really isn’t very good, is he?
Dave – !$#())^$@!)(%*@
Groz – What about John Parrish?
Dave – #*%#*%^))%@*
Groz – Thanks for coming on, Dave
Funniest thing I’ve read from you in a long, long time.
Time to find some Wallbanger tonight for all of us. Games like this might be enough for Dave to even have a sip…
Ballantine 17 year old seems appropriate, since I don’t have a beautiful woman handy to soothe my fevered brow. And a nice reminder that someone out there is competent at his job, unlike some managers I might NAME!!!!
for those who went to the Tacoma outing; did anyone actually ask Bavasi about the refusal to sit the veterans?
It’s games like these that lead me to start drinking again. Pathetic, there’s nothing we can do about Washburn but you can at least take him out when he gives up 3 HR’s and 8 almost-HR’s in his first 6 innings. You don’t need to let him stay in and give up another two, it’s obvious that there’s a patten going on.
Then you let Sexson hit in the 8th with no outs, man on 1st and 2nd against a righty when you’re down by two. WHY?! WITH BROUSSARD ON THE BENCH?! Well then he of course hits into the double play and we lose the game.
McLaren, you suck sooooo much it’s not even funny anymore.
But Broussard’s wife just had a baby…
435: You’re right, at least there’s some good news that relates to the Ms.
He’s been back for 2 days.
And even if that was the case, you have Bloomquist PR for Ibanez and PH Jones for Sexson. You don’t let someone batting .183 against righties stay in in a game critical situation like that.
Dude, I was joking. Just trying to come up with the most pea-brained rationale possible, which is basically the optimal method of reverse engineering M’s front office and managerial decisions…
Well, I hope that the 8th inning DP was the nail in the coffin for Sexson’s time as a stater. It’s not like he is up there and taking good hacks and just getting unlucky. He LOOKS like he is hitting .200.
hmm. two notes today:
Padres claim Igawa off waivers
Podsednik claimed by Cubs
I have to concur with all the bitterness. I was at soccer practice and turned on the radio just in time to hear Sexson hit into the DP (second of the game, as Niehaus noted–he’s about ready to blow, I think). Then I heard the ninth. Ichiro bouncing weakly to third just about sums up this game. Weak. I agree-bring back Grover. At least he had half a clue, whereas Mac has none at all.
I agree about Sexson in particular. He seems to be a nice guy and all, but that’s not what the game is about.
My son now believes I have extraordinary powers, because whenever Richie comes up with a man on first, I put my fingers to my temples and intone, “slider down and away; weak dribbler to short” and hey presto, he does it. Rally-killing DP, Every Freakin’ Time.
So here’s my question: what can be done about Richie? Can he just be sat the rest of the season? Broussard’s defense is about as good as Richie’s, and his offense — well, hell, isn’t just about ANYONE’s offense better at this point? Maybe Richie is hurt — yeah, I think that’s it. Maybe he has a season-ending injury. Back strain, or spasms, or something. If he can go on the DL for the rest of the way it opens up a lot of options.
Cuz if I see him ground into one more DP, when he’s a guy supposed to be driving in runs, I’m going to start losing hair.
-JAH