Game 115, Mariners at White Sox
Dave · August 12, 2007 at 10:30 am · Filed Under Mariners
Weaver vs Danks, 11:05 am.
Jones starts. Yay.
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USSM uses and recommends
1. Suzuki
2. Lopez
3. Guillen
4. Beltre
5. Ibanez (DH)
6. Sexson
7. Jones
8. Burke
9. Betancourt
Pains me to say it, but Oakland just homered. Woo-hoo!
Lopez bats second. Boo.
Dave, what to you think of starting Vidro at second on days where Weaver and Wash, two extreme flyballers, start? Is his defense still that bad?
Danks has given up 22 homers, tied for 4th in the AL.
Let’s hope we don’t have to see Lopez bunt at any stage today. It’s always painful to watch him attempt a bunt.
Other than Sexson at 1B, I am doing a happy lineup dance.
Not bad at all…
I would rather see Jones hit 2nd in the line-up.
Small sample size alert, but WFB .276/.364/.483 vs lefties this year (career .691)….his career OPS is still 100 points higher than Lopez this season (Lopez career is .702).
How do they compare defensively at 2nd?
Been away on vacation without email access, so when I came back I was worried that the team might have faltered a bit while I was gone. Good to see that they are still only 3.5 games back, and that Adam Jones has been called up to play. Bad to see that Jones has actually not been called up to play, but to wear a ML uniform and look like a player. However, I’ll bet that he does it a lot better than Jason Ellison (though no offense to JE, I actually liked him and wished he got more playing time). We are still in the playoff hunt, which is great! Did David Wells go to another team yet? Its good to be home, and good to catch up on some USSM information.
No TV broadcast (out-of-Seattle, at least) makes me a sad panda.
I did see that the Danks/Weaver rematch on Saturday is the nat’l FOX broadcast, according to ESPN’s schedule. Does that mean we have to listen to Joe Buck?
2 – You just jinxed them, but I’m more interested in what the Yankees are doing.
In the ‘looking for silver linings’ department Lopez has grounded into fewer than half the double plays Vidro has this season on a reasonably equal number of at bats. I wonder what their respective GDP rates per opportunity are.
#6, not sure that there is a better option: in his career Broussard is .291/.404/.696 vs. LHP. (.429/.333/.762 in 12 AB this year)
Sexson is .327/.402/.729 this year vs. LHP (and .365/.503/.869 for his career)
The best alternative would be Johjima if you wanted to get funky with positions (note: do not try this at home) who is .386/.577/.962 vs. LHP this year. But not worth it for a variety of factors.
WHY IS LOPEZ BATTING SECOND AND YUNI 9????
Good work, Oakland–now I can go back to hating you. Seriously– Magglio 2 HR in one inning? Who does he think he is? Mike Cameron?
7: BINGO!!! My sentiments exactly.
Any TV today?
Sexson is batting .239 vs lefty’s this year. He’s the best option???
Seriously, Ibanez in the 5-hole against a lefty? Jesus…
win expectancy question for those of you that follow it.
last night, how does the WE change after the game slam, does it just look at the players and the situation moving forward (needing 1 or 2 runs, and having 3 outs to work with) or does it take into account the fact that 4 runs have already scored ?, and adjust accordingly to situation when 4 runs are scored with an out ?
Ugh, Giambi just homered. Yankees up 2-0.
#18, Sexson has also drawn 12 walks in 92 AB.
Vidro is hetting 65 points higher than Ibanez against lefty’s. I dont understand how McLaren can justify putting Ibanez in that spot today.
Is there any chance he returns as our coach next year?
18 –
It’s better than the .183 he’s batting against righty’s.
This lineup is almost acceptable, although I don’t get having Lopez bat second and well, I guess this technically would be Sexson’s turn in the platoon but still, don’t have a lot of faith in him.
#22, He also has 22 K’s in 92 at bats.
Probably because Ibanez has hit 5 homers in 5 games and loves White Sox pitching. If he truly has things turned around and the power has return, I would leave him in the lineup. At least he is not hitting 3rd again.
24,
“It’s better than the .183 he’s batting against righty’s.”
Thats an awful argument.
Vidro at 2B is bad. but is he bad enough to cost the mariners enough runs to lose the game?
Last time we saw him on the field, I don’t think any meaningful plays were made at his position… one of those days Sexson could have played a competent 2B.
bmanuw Says:
Any TV today?
It’s on the CW here in Portland.
Broussard is only a slight upgrade over Sexson vs lefties. And Sexson is probably about equal in defense. If any time to start Sexson, it’s today…
I agree with Lopez starting, but batting 2nd is kooky. It should be Betancourt.
Ibanez DHing against a lefty? This is the only situation I’d like to see Vidro start in, and as a DH.
This is what I would have started today.
vs left (kenji day off)
Ichiro CF
Betancourt SS
Beltre 3B
Guillen RF
Jones LF
Vidro DH
Burke C
Broussard 1B
Bloomquist 2B
28 -
Vidro at 2B would probably be worse than Ibanez in LF, or at least would negate the upgrade from having Jones out there. His legs are completely gone.
It might be okay with Washburn on the mound because he doesn’t give up many ground ballls, but otherwise it’d be a bad idea.
Wind blowing out of the east at 10-15 here in Chicago. Might knock a few balls down
@14
At ninth, he has Ichiro ahead of him, keeps the pitcher honest, more likely to see a fastball that he can drive. Also he has good wheels, and Ichiro can pretty much hit to whichever side he chooses, keeping GDP down and allowing for good chance of a hit and run. It does however on a statistical basis keep Yuni from as many AB’s someone hiting 1-3.
Just my $0.02
KSTW ch 11
#25, believe it or not but Sexson’s 22% strikeout rate this year (strangely from both the left and right sides of the plate) is actually LOWER than his career 26% strikeout rate.
Yeah, I didn’t believe it either. Sexson’s suckiness seems to be coming from a dramatic loss of power. (career 12% of his ABs go for extra bases, this year 9.5%) and it seems like he is coming up on the short end of the BABIP stick.
OK Jose!
I’m surprised Ichiro isn’t at 3rd. It seemed fairly obvious that Owens wouldn’t reach that ball
35: If you watch his ABs though, the weak grounders don’t say that his BABIP is just unlucky…
@37 Moot now
WHY WOULD YOU SEND HIM!?!?!?!
omg we need a new 3b coach…
Way to give away outs guys.
That was dumb by Garcia.
40 – Maybe he knew Raul was due up in two batters and we needed to score before then
That was SMART by Guillen!
Hmm, 0 outs, double down the line, arguably one of the best hitters in the lineup due up, let’s send the runner home!
What do we have to do to get a new 3B coach?
how many runs are we going to need to get today?
Raul vs lefties…awesome.
43: haha
At least Raul can’t do any damage now, nobody on 2 outs, we don’t expect him to do anything.
…And he strikes out.
Yay, Sexson leading off next inning! At least he can’t GIDP.
Beltre just busted for lack odf hustle to 1b. If he had not slowed up, safe he’d have been, IMO.
Blowers- Not so sure Blow that that ball was actully touched by the fan, looks to me as if he missed or pulled back.
Anyway nice start.
46: I’m gonna predict 10-7 final game score. Weaver will do fairly well, but give up a pretty big inning. The Ms will have huge sprees of base hits, like we’ve seen already.
Will we see good Weaver or bad Weaver today? Stay tuned.
With Weaver on the mound we’ll get some chances to see if Jones can rob some homers. That should be fun.
As long as Weaver doesn’t walk a bunch of people we’re probably okay, the White Sox offense is terrible.
hahahahahaha
wow.
Geez, guess it’s bad Weaver tonight.
that was pretty sweet. Now lets not have it be for nothing.
Nicely played by Ichiro and a lot of disbelief In Chicage. And then a pop-up to 1st with 1 out. Fun to see a lineup more dysfunctional than ours.
There ya go Richie
O boy. Watch for the McLaren smirk.
Oh great, 10 more years of Mariner baseball for Richie Sexson
Well, there we go.
To be fair to Sexson, he hit that into the wind. It may not have gone out by that much….but he hit it well.
BIG RICHIE!!!!!
“That’s up in the wind and it’s gonna get blown out of here!”
hahaha. Even Sims thinks that hit woulda been a popup in the Safe.
The beauty of Burke’s hit almost outshines the ugliness of those road jerseys. Ugh.
Jamie Burke es muy caliente.
in my opinion i really thing that beltre needed a day off, he hasnt been swingin well.
Sexson’s hit cleared the fence by a fair amount. It was a legit homer even with the wind.
65,
I like them… v_v
So, 62 and 64…which way IS the wind blowing in Chicago today? That didn’t get out by much so if it’s blowing out that’s clearly an out at the Safe.
65 – yeah, i thought i was watching a spring training game…what’s the deal? they forgot to do laundry last night?
I just tuned into the game. Looks like the M’s are wearing their batting practice jerseys again. How appropriate for Weaver.
The ump is killing Weaver on these missed strike calls.
I love watching Good Weaver pitch. That sidearm out-pitch is insane.
The hawks game is on tv tonight at least.!
The M’s are OPSing 1.500 this game.
anyone have any idea as to how to catch the hawks game outside of seattle (in CA)?
I have Hawks season tickets but you can’t drag me to a pre-season game. Hate them.
In the Appreciating What You Have department, the M’s broadcast team is stellar. Because I am in Chicago and have to watch this game on Comcast Sports Net with Hawk and Steve Stone, I am just grateful for the M’s broadcast team when I’m back in WA. “The Hawk” is the ultimate homer broadcaster, going so far as to call the official scorer’s decision on that Guillen run “Complete BS”. Also, he has spent every other second talking about how this game SHOULD be 3-2 because of Thome’s near miss. The guy just whines incessantly about everything that goes wrong for the White Sox.
These Chicago commentators really hate Seattle…
Its on NBC tonigh i think
let me check
The Hawks game is on NBC.
77 – Yes. You can go to San Diego.
anyone have any idea as to how to catch the hawks game outside of seattle (in CA)?
Go to the game!
I live in San Diego and we’re heading over to Qualcomm in a few hours. Go Hawks!
white sox announcers just said that the Angel’s have a better bullpen than the M’s…hmmmm.
#79, also these guys have that super annoying “theygone” thing. Ugh. Give me Ron Fairly at that point.
This game should be 3-2 just like HoRam should have pitched a shutout if not for the bad pitches.
OK its on at 8pm est on NBC
thats one way to get a pitchers pitch count up.
YES! What a purty game.
AND YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD….YES!
Beltre!
What’s with homerunMs?
Who wanted to give Beltre a day off?
The wind seems to be blowing from Left to right.
I guess there’s a reason the M’s are wearing their batting practice jerseys.
Nice hat catch by that guy in the first row.
Beltre is King Awesome!!!
*93 ok ok ill eat my words.
M’s are really adjusting their game well to these mini parks.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: There’s not a worse team of commentators than the White Sox guys. It’s natural to always think your hometown guys are the best and everyone else sucks. But these guys really are two of the worst things to happen to baseball. Not only are they incredibly unintelligent, but they’re also just mean, obnoxious and bitter.
This Danks guy has absolutely nothing out there.
Heh. HR….but you can tell his timing is just a BIT off….
That was a very ugly swing from Sexy. It amazes me that he has hit over .210 at any point in his career.
That thing with Ibanez at Lookout Landing is not only hilarious, it’s also proving to be true.
And checking the scoreboard..apparently the Yanks will never lose again
ah, all is right again … K’s for raul and sexon…
hoping the 5 runs hold up.
Beltre with the Windy City Funkblast
the batting practice jerseys are because of the heat. Thats what mclaren said last time. Those jerseys are lighter. and from what i remember chicago is sick hot in the summer.
yeah these commentators blow.
Beltre actually hit the previous pitch harder but foul. He was locked into whatever Danks was throwing.
Aw… I lost a post detailing why Sexson’s home run was a home run in Safeco.
Comiskey is 372 to right center; 335 down the line;
Safeco is 385 to right center; 325 down the line;
Safeco has a notorious “jet stream” to RF when the roof is closed.
Either was, Sexson’s HR was a good 15-20 feet beyond the fence, and would have been a HR either way. It was also to direct RF, where the measurements are probably something like 350 @ Chi vs 345 @ Sea… so no difference really.
This ballpark is such a joke, easily half of these homers are routine flyouts in Safeco. I’ll take ‘em though.
99-
I agree, was listening to the game yesterday, M’s had runners on first and second, and I can’t remember who, but someone then lined out to second. The announcer made a point of saying like 3 or 4 times ‘if he drops that ball, triple play! all he had to do was drop it, tag the guy at second, tag second base then throw to first’ just over and over saying how easily it would have been to get the triple play. Beyond annoying.
Lol, Raul is on Yahoo’s hot list right now.
White Sox announcers on NL West: Diamondbacks aren’t the most talented blah blah Dodgers blah blah Diamondbacks are young, but no one’s told ‘em yet they can’t win.
Sexson’s homerun was in the back of the bullpen. It was legit, wind or no wind.
is this the best out field in the league now? who else comes close?
The BP jerseys are a great idea. I lost 2 pounds of water weight in sweat during 2 hours of tennis in the chicago heat yesterday.
Can we count some of these runs for our game vs Santana? I mean since they’re both lefties and…uh…well, I guess that’s where the similarities end
Weaver seems to be pitching extremely well so far, but he’s throwing a lot of pitches. Hopefully McLaren has noticed that.
4 K’s for Weaver?!?
109, 114, ok, ok…it was a real homer. I don’t think many of us are suggesting that Sexson should be sat down vs. lefties. Even in the magical universe where we have a good manager Sexson would probably be playing today.
Of course so would Vidro. Putting Ibanez in as DH today is moronic.
It’s amazing how much AJ looks like Eric Davis. Even his swing (Coincidentally hopefully over time he will learn to shorten it a bit otherwise he will always strike out a lot).
Who here thinks McLaren will go with Raul’s veteren-ness against Santana, not wanting to overwhelm the young rookie?
The fact that the ball is supposedly “flying out of here” makes Weaver’s performance even more impressive.*
*I’m sure Chicago has crappy offense, etc., but then, frequently so do we.
117 –
If you take away the date and the ballpark and 2 ERA points, and add 6 wins we’re practically shelling Santana out there!
AJ has had a couple of ugly at bats today. Oh well… he’s probably not used to seeing this type of pitching…
The kid’s got pretty impressive bat speed, though. He can really wait a long time on those breaking balls.
Dude… ‘The Hawk’ has been known as a homer of epic proportions for a minimum 20 years. I remember my dad talking trash about the guy as far back as 1991.
I also recall an incident where he rooted for an opposing player to get hurt; or not continue after an HBP… something like that. I bet you could look it up.
According to the Chicago broadcasters walking the 9th place hitter is the single worst thing you can do. Apparently they don’t realize that the pitcher doesn’t actually bat in the American League.
Weavers only at 40 pitches, thats not horrible, ill take it over 80 that danks has thrown.
127: Or that Yuni is probably the best hitting 9 hitter in the league.
Weaver’s cruising for a bruising. He has a lot of movement today, but everything he throws breaks to the heart of the plate.
would Raul have caught that?
125 – Indeed. How about Beltre’s bat speed? Beltre can pull a 95MPH fastball outside half of plate.
“Long Run”? It was like 5 steps away. I’ll take it, though.
131 – Yes.
Weaver really does have similar movement in his 2 seamer to Maddux… now if only he had that command…
Indians have something brewing.
130 – With a 5 run lead and this awful team throw down the middle until they start hitting it.
The definition of HOT is track record very recently. Raul is the DEFINITION of hot right now
Hahaha, Guillen must be taking notes from Patrick Kerney, cuz he just caught that ball out of a 3 point stance.
132,
Now that you mention it, he is pretty good at doing that… maybe he could give AJ lessons on shortening up his swing.
Also, did I read this correctly? 44% of AJ’s hits in the minors went for extra bases? How do you even do that?
138 – definition of HOT incl. making it on baseball tonight and getting your own page…which he did last night.
-140. You hit it hard and you run like hell.
Bases loaded, no outs and only score 1 run. Lame. At least the Yankees have a tough schedule this month.
zito has now walked the bases loaded with no outs in the first inning. He won a Cy?
That would’ve been a double in Safeco.
Nice!
are you kidding me with mariners HR’s. Go Guillen. Nice homerun call Dave
That was scorcher!
maybe we are watching BP…can someone confirm that this game counts!!
jose guillen: scourge of left handed pitching
They’re just crushing the ball on this road trip. And after about a month of struggling to score runs.
Just checked with the MLB. The M’s will in fact get credit for a win if they score more runs than the White Sox by the end of the game.
From “Hawk’s” wikipedia entry–decidedly not NPOV
Harrelson served as a Chicago White Sox announcer from 1982 to 1985 and briefly left broadcasting during the 1986 season to become the White Sox’s General Manager which was seen by many as, to quote Donald Trump, a total disaster.[2] Many people questioned his work ethic as a GM because he oftentimes was found on the golf course instead of in the office. During that one season, Harrelson fired field manager Tony LaRussa, who was soon hired by the Oakland Athletics and traded Bobby Bonilla to the Pittsburgh Pirates.
During the 1987–1988 season he was the play-by-play man for New York Yankees games on SportsChannel New York.[2]
In 1994, Hawk served as a broadcaster for the short-lived Baseball Network.[2]
Since 1990, he has served as one of the team’s play-by-play announcers for their television broadcasts. He is known as one of the ultimate “homer” broadcasters. Harrelson is known for his often used catchphrases such as, “He gone!” after a strikeout of an opposing player, “Sacks packed with Sox,” when the bases are loaded, as well as referring to the White Sox as “the good guys” (based on the team’s mid-90’s slogan Good Guys Wear Black). He is best known for saying ” you can put it on the board, YES!” after every White Sox homerun is hit.
147, Dave can’t remember the difference between Jose Lopez and Jose Guillen, much less give a coherent home run call.
this cleveland-detroit-yankees-m’s race is great. I’m loving that the mariner’s are atop the card and these guys fogot how to suck.
A RHP just in time for Raul?
153, that really is a neutral view. The guy really is that biased, so it is a true representation of his broadcasting.
Maybe Raul should have sat this one out.
Even a RHP can’t save Raul today…next up is the Golden Sombrero.
I might be in the minority here, but a homerun that goes over the wall is a homerun to me, regardless of the wind speed, ball park, or any other condition/element that some of you guys can think of. I mean the odds are already stacked against the batter no matter which way you look at it, so I see nothing wrong with a player taking advantage of a situation that increases his chances of having a good at bat. What is up with all these references like, “That would’ve been a double in Safeco” and a few other similar comments over the last few days? I understand that Safeco is not a hitters park, but without including interleague play, let’s not forget that their are 13 other ballparks these guys have to play at throughout the season.
95% win expectancy according to fangraphs. I think we can rest easy on this one.
Funny. Weaver appealed the HBP.
I wonder when the last time a HBP was ever called back. The 70’s, maybe?
I’ll rest a lot easier if Weaver gets out of this jam
sweet dreams rsrobinson!
160: for purposes of recognizing a player for his performance in the game in question you’re absolutely correct. But you know McLaren will look at Raul’s recent homeruns in small parks vs. poor pitching as a resurgence of power and will continue to play him in situations like today where he just should not be playing.
Sims is in love with AJ. I hope it helps.
162-
I know there was one umpire who used to call Biggio on his BS HBPs, where he would either lean in to them or not make any move to get out of the way.
That was a gorgeous DP. What I love best is there is no sense of hurry in either Yuni or JoLo. A lot of 2b get antsy and just whip the ball to first while jumping. Jose looked calm as he set his feet and threw accurately.
160 -
That’s exactly the point: There are 13 other ballparks these guys have to play in, and none of them are as homer-friendly as this one or Baltimore’s field.
I’m just saying, this park is a joke for homers and the fact that we’re hitting so many just barely over the fence doesn’t necessarily indicate an offensive resurgence. Because in a park we’re going to be playing most of our games in (Safeco) for the remainder of the season those aren’t runs, and it doesn’t suggest that the recent lineups McLaren has run out there are working.
#160-
You are right in the sense that a home run is certainly a home run–in that it always counts.
However, you are missing the essence of why we are making the comments that the offensive surge for certain players may be overly exaggerated because they are hitting balls that would be outs in a neutral or pitcher’s park.
Unless you are advocating a home-away platoon (whcih would never happen, but isn’t a terrible idea), it is crucial to take park factors into account.
Jekyll Weaver can be such fun to watch – just as Hyde Weaver can be beyond painful to watch. We need Jekyll to stick around the rest of the season.
AJ needs to be more patient than that with a man on first. I hope someone says something to him when he gets to the dugout.
Hopefully AJ won’t pick up our team’s nasty habit of going after the first pitch 99% of the time.
I count that as the 148th time either Sims or Blower has said “maybe this is a sign that Richie is getting untracked.”
I was at a Yankees/Mets game earlier this year at Shea and Doug Mientkiewicz was hit by a pitch and was not awarded first because he didn’t try to get away.
174
The more you say it the more the people watching will believe it and then the more McLaren can play him without public backlash.
Or something.
174
…to go w/ the 257 times they’ve wondered, “maybe that will get Richie going”
Great. AJ is now suffering the self-fulfilling prophesy of the M’s bench player. He doesn’t have a track record so he can’t be very good, so he sits for so long that he gets rusty and plays like he’s not very good. I so hate the way this team is run.
165, Honestly, I think Ibanez could’ve have stunk it up on this road trip and McLaren would still find a way to pencil him in. I mean we’re already 2/3 into the season and nothing would lead me to believe that McLaren is going to do anything different with Ibanez. Sexson has had a complete meltdown and McLaren is still persistent in playing him over Broussard so I can only imagine how much more Ibanez would have to suck before McLaren makes any drastic changes.
Just tuend in, M’s up 6-0.
How are they screwing this one up?
I just had to log in to say how much I loathe “Hawk” Harrelson. I don’t care if you played with Ted Williams, you aren’t qualified to broadcast baseball…But I just wanted to say, please don’t bash “them” when you mention the broadcasters–it’s about 95% Hawk on a normal day. Almost 100% today as Darrin Jackson isn’t broadcasting with him, it’s Steve Stone in the booth. Stone isn’t that bad, and I just love the fact that the Cubs fired him for telling the truth about that pathetic team.
180 – They are not. But this blog is not about optimism
.
Who are you and what have you done with Jeff Weaver?!?!
Look how Ankiel was brought up by the Cardinals and plays everyday. He was Jones’ equal in the PCL and is tearing up the NL – BECAUSE HE GETS TO PLAY EVERYDAY.
Adam Jones – All Out. Every fourth day.
Batista has won 12 for the first time in his carrer. O’Flherty’s 7-0 record shows how meaningless the number of wins is for evaluating pitching. Nonetheless, I would be interested in Dave’s take on the significance of winning 300 games.
Nolan Weaver with 6 K’s so far.
Weaver’s ERA has now dropped below 6.00 for the first time all year.
Honestly, this is absurd. 7 K’s for Weaver? I know their offense is bad but….
Weaver is putting up Felix numbers. And Good Felix numbers at that.
If Weaver can keep it up, this could be TWO shut outs which would put him over the 150 other AL pitchers tied with just one for first place.
I wonder what the all time record for highest ERA to lead the league in shutouts is? (It would also put him within one of Halladay’s league lead in complete games)
Hey! We can dream, ok?
Just the fact he can get Fields out, puts him past other M’s pitchers this series.
Annnd…. 1 hour 33 minutes in until enazario’s first comment about the USSM negativity.
187 – Woot! Impressive counting that 2 months ago it was an above 14 ERA
Weaver is a dealin’ today.
61 pitches too! At least at my last look…
Guillen – “Hey look what I found!”
Well it is. That doesn’t mean I don’t like it. But this is a glass half empty kind of crowd. Don’t hate me Lauren. I love you all.
Mariano is coming in for a four out save.
Garko, for the love of God hit a homer.
Jeff Weaver is a dominant force.
Jeff Weaver is USING the force
#180, 182-
It’s ridiculous to say that this blog is not about optimism or that we are looking for the Mariners mistakes. Everyone on this board wants the Mariners to win, and the enlightened members of the board want the Mariners to do what ever is possible to increase the chances of doing so. When the Mariners don’t make smart decisions we criticize them, and when they make smart decisions we praise them.
I think that the vast majority of people who complain about the blog, or don’t understand the criticism of the Mariner leadership are misunderstanding one critical point:
Smart decisions do not GUARANTEE success, they only INCREASE THE CHANCES of success.
The ethos of this blog can be summed up as follows (forgive me for speaking for you Dave, DMZ, Jeff , et al.): “Use the best tools available to increase the chances the most desired outcome for Mariner fans: Mariner victories.”
So do we start thinking about re-signing Weaver for next year?
I would contend that the single season number of wins for one pitcher does not provide an accurate picture of their ability. There is no shortage of documentation on how much luck comes into play as far as pitching success. However, 300 wins is a significant number. Only great longevity and talent can allow a pitcher to continue winning season after season.
Ok, that was 5 innings, 79 after 6…still damn good.
Does any one else remember McLaren talking about an adjustment to Ibanez’s batting stance? Some thing to do with his back leg. He said this before playing a game on this road trip.
79 pitches for Weaver through 6.
79 pitches from Weaver so far through 6 innings. I don’t think he’ll make it the complete game, but we’ll see.
The corner outfielders are having to worry about Ichiro trying to catch everything to the outfield. Amazing that Guillen was to keep his concentration with Ichiro flying behind him. Sims and Blowers even – politely – called Ichiro a ballhog.
WHO IS SINGING GOD BLESS AMERICA? this is atrocious.
This guy who is singing God Bless America may actually be worse at singing than Hawk is at broadcasting.
The same Ibanez that is 0-3 with 3K in this game?
Dang. Indians leave the bases loaded…
sadly, the culture of this blog seemes to be influenced by years of the M’s being a solidly cr@ppy team.
when they play good and enjoy success contrary to the wishes and thoughts of the main contributors here, than a pox should be put on them?
that’s similar to Republicans wishing for another terrorist attack just so there would be another “rallying” effect around our esteemed leader…
@196, etc
I beg to differ. This is a glass half full crowd here, we just talk about what is it going to take to fill it up the rest of the way…
212 – For the 2nd inning in a row.
Seriously dudes? You gotta stop bitching about the Thome non-homer.
Mariano got out of the jam. I remember when he was being written off after the terrible start. His era now sits at 2.76, with a 51-5 K-BB in 49 innings.
201 – OK fair point. Let me clarify before this gets out of control. I chose words poorly -which in this blog is a recipe for disaster. Instead of optimism I should have used the word “cheerleading”. This is by the way a compliment -not a critique.
But in my humble opinion -if I were to gauge this blog in a spectrum where one end is blind optimism and the other end is utter negative despair- this blog would land slightly on the negative side of the spectrum.
But the real key is to enjoy what the mariners do when they do it. Sit back and enjoy Jekyll Nolan Weaver.
hey true slicky-
This a baseball blog. If you want to spew mindless moonbat bullshit, go somewhere else. As Dave says, we won’t miss you.
Let’s stick to baseball here.
HAHA. On the CSN broadcast, someone from the stands could be clearly heard yelling.. “WEAVER YOU SUCK” after hitting A.J.
Am I the only one that takes delight in the smug white sox being absolutely miserable as a team? From the manager who relished the role of loud mouth to the team to the cheating catcher they really seem to have hit rock bottom in a hurry after winning the world series, and I have to think it’s karma catching up with them.
Remember when we used to hear comments from their manager allll the time on ESPN, now, because his team sucks, he never opens his mouth (or people just don’t care now).
Funny, if you ask me.
222: I certainly don’t mind seeing the ChiSox being teh suxxor.
#213. To compare the thinking behind this blog to Republican leadership may be the most asinine comparison one could possibly muster. In fact, you cannot come up with two intellectual methodologies that are more diametrically opposed. (Just to be clear, I am referring, as I assume you are, to the current dominant brand of Republican thinking.)
The theories espoused on this blog are rooted firmly in the domain of reason, mathematics and the scientific method. They are presented as falsifiable hypotheses using the best available data. They are also open to scrutiny, but the burden of proof is on showing why a theory that has been shown to be correct mathematically is, in fact, false.
The current Republican ideology is based on dogma, and unswerving loyalty to an established leaderhead, as well as historical precedent. There is precious little room for scientific inquiry, and in fact, meaningful evidence that supports contrary positions are routinely squelched.
If anything, the baseball point of view that most closely resembles Republican ideology is the philosophy of “old school” teams such as the Mariners, who seem to continually value dogma, and historical precedent over scientific examination of issues.
My Dad and I are surprised that whoever is in the Weaver costume doesn’t want to come out and take credit…
-Zvazda
220-
And that would upset me if, like Dave, I had similar thin skin.
Seriously, I don’t come to this blog much because, oh I don’t know, I’d actually like to enjoy the best Mariners season in years. It’s weird to be coming here and reading the same pessimisitc domm clap-trap that was being written at the nadir of the Hargrove era.
What gives?
Ibanez must be protesting the fact that he doesn’t get to play LF today.
Keep the political BS out of here please.
El Sombrero de Oro for Raul. HES BACK BABY!
hahahahahahahhahaha take that mclaren
Now, from the same source that told us AJ wouldn’t be coming up we get this pantload. Seriously, is this guy a sports reporter or McLaren’s transcriptionist?
Ibanez!!! 4 for 4!!!
And Raul wears the golden sombrero tonight. I wonder if McLaren realizes it was a boneheaded move to put him in the lineup tonight.
@224 LA
Let’s stick to baseball, not sink to the level of Democratic Underpants or Daily Kooks.
Just sayin.
203. That was miy thought. Jerry Brewer did a column in today’s Seattle Times on which sports record was most impressive. He overlooked the most unbreakable record in sports, Cy Young’s record for wins in a career.
Don’t celebrate Ibanez 4 K’s people! McLaren will only think that there is a connection between his recent hot bat and him playing LF. Sorry Jones, but back to the bench you go.
Jekyll’s at 93 pitches – if he has another quick inning McLaren may let him go after the CG seeing as how he has shown a tendency to run the starters out there somewhat longer than Hargrove (that’s a bad thing for some of our SPs).
#234
Seriously? You are going to call to keep politics out of this discussion, while throwing in your own political name calling?
226- I agree. It’s not enough to simply win, you have to win the ussm way.
welcome back to reality weaver!
It’s going to get interesting in here now.
AJ messed that one up. Yes Raul would have never gotten there but AJ has to catch that.
It wasn’t that long ago that people were calling for the head
240-Jones should of got that. Weaver is having a great game.
That’s twice AJ has dropped a ball he should have caught. He still looks raw as an outfielder.
AJ didn’t mess that one up, Yuni and Beltre not peeling away when he was calling it did. How are you going to concentrate on the ball when there are 2 other guys running at you at full speed?
Generally, winning smart means you’ll win smart in the future.
Winning by luck generally doesn’t say anything about the future.
nothing against Weaver’s fine pitching, but I fell asleep when it was 3-0, and I could swear when I woke up that Sims said he couldn’t get out of the inning, and it was now 4-3. I had no trouble believeing that, so imagine my surprise when the inning ended and it was actually 6-0.
#184– wasn’t Ankiel called up because there was a position for him to play, due to injury? and hasn’t there been discussion there about why (with 30+ HR in AAA, and the Cardinals’ terrible offence) it took them this long to bring him up?
Seriously who is this Weaver guy on the mound?
He’s not raw. They need to get out of the way. What would you rather see, three guys smashing into each other in a not that close game?
Weaver’s been solid since returning from the dl
Awesome. It’s like a bad Mariners game, where everything seems to be going ok and then it all explodes into a firebomb of shit.
I give up for today.
is this his best game so far for us?
246- Yes he did mess it up that’s why they are in the MLB. You have to catch that even when to infielders are coming at you.
Here we go. Time to break Bobby Jenks streak and finish the domination.
msb – so is it safe to say that Weaver pitching a 6-0 shutout is beyond your wildest dreams?
242, Yep…typicaly rookie outfielder move. OF’s need to learn to take charge which is tough when you’re the FNG. He needed to call for that one sooner and expect the IF’s to get out of his way. Instead he took a lousy angle on the play to avoid the IF’s.
Indians have something brewing (again) in the ninth.
99 pitches thru 8
Jenks? Going for a record in a cheap way.
Optimism – the feeling that all is going to turn out well
Pessimism – the feeling that things will turn out badly
The authors and educated posters here analyze the situation, and suggest options that would increase the likelihood of success. If this is done, then there is a greater chance that the Mariners will win based on their analysis. If worse options are executed, e.g., playing Vidro in the field when Felix is pitching, then the team has a lesser chance of winning. There are reasons for optimism when choices are made that increase the chances of winning, and there are reasons for pessimism when the chances are reduced.
No one says that luck doesn’t play into it, but there is a need to give oneself the best possible chances of succeeding and playing Ibanez in LF instead of Jones isn’t it.
If you are calling the ball which he clearly was he shouldn’t have started to peel away. It was a tough play but I bet he will make that play next year when he gets more confidence.
On a side note, The Hawk just had a stroke on air when Jenks got the out on AJ
why is their closer in a 6-0 game?
“Uh oh… CMON JERMAINE… YES!!!!!” that is the hawk’s call on Burke’s lineout. I’m getting ill
264 – to raise his consecutive retired hitters streak
someone please get a hit here.
AsCab has a chance to help the M’s out…
264, to set a record.
MarinersPlayoffs -
I don’t care who you are, when you’re calling for a ball and the other guys are still going for it, you start to peel off yourself or you risk a collision. They should’ve stopped when he was calling for it, that’s all there is.
White Sox have so little to live for these days.
Yeah, another good job by Weaver against a crappy team. However, I am glad that the Mariners are winning and I am optimistic for the remainder of the season if certain low % moves are avoided and good decisions are made in their stead.
Weaver has had two shaky starts since coming off of the DL but otherwise has been rock solid. Even his season numbers aren’t completely nausea inducing any more which is amazing considering the hole he dug for himself at the start of the year.
how lame.
Yawn
271: you mean just like Ichiro going for the season hit record in 2005?
I haven’t listened to the Sox’s broadcaster but Rick Rizz is not exactly even keeled.
grady up with 2 on bottom of ninth down 2.
I’m sure ESPN will probably make a big deal out of Guillen putting Jenks in there in a 6-0 game, oh the contraversy!
The comments on The Hawk are good stuff. He may be lousy, but at least it’s entertaining
SF: It kinda makes sense, if your pitcher is going for a big ol’ record, to let him go for it when the game isn’t on the line, maybe. Just one pressure situation rather than two?
276 – Yes. That year all we had to live for was Ichiro and Bucky Jacobson.
well– as annoying as the Jenks hoopla is, we can’t really throw stones– there were some little milestones over the last few years that the Ms & Mariner fans got very excited for in the midst of a bad season …
Now its up to Blake.
277 good point. Rick Rizz needs a name along the lines of “The Hawk”
Oh there’s no question that it’s entertaining. But I would prefer tuning in to a baseball game for insight and not the circus
270- Uhm it didn’t look like he was calling it off real well when both infielders were coming. Don’t you think it’s weird they both went after it and never pulled away?
Bucky Jacobson – Wow – There’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.
What ever happened to him?
Damn Yankees
Indians = suck
287 – after playing a season with Ibanez in left? I think they were surprised he was there.
oh, but Hawk makes him seem positively disinterested.
so, ‘Invasion’ must be at least the 4th version of Jack Finney’s ‘Body snatchers’ …
CG shut out?!! holy…
288. he got injured and then self-destructed.
288 – haven’t you seen the Banner Bank commercial?
http://www.buckybackers.com will update you
288 – I believe he was traded and he is now in some professional league.
I have a buddy who played in a softball game against Bucky this summer. That should tell you all you need to know about where his career is at.
Where can I buy my “I’m a Jeff Weabvre Beliebvre” memorabilia?
I don’t believe what I just saw. He did it agan.
COMPLETE GAME SHUTOUT BABY!!!
Weaver has had great games before this year, but I think this was his most impressive. I do realize that it is a weak team, but he looked a lot better than Batista did.
292 – Have you ever listened to BoSox announcer? Pretty bad too.
well, that was very nice– and in about 2 hours, as well– especially with Santana tomorrow
Good to get in and get out of the heat with a short game, give the boys time to rest.
Atta boy Jeff. Nice job.
I must have some sort of mental problem because I’m more upset about the Indians loss than I am excited about an out-of-the-blue Weaver CG shutout.
Way to go Weaver throwing like he’s a #1 starter.
8 K’s 5 hit shutout? WTF?!?!
It’s the lowest his ERA has been since last year.
His brother has thrown 4 innings of scoreless ball so far. (my attempt to jinx him)
Dear Man in the Weaver costume –
Thank you for coming out to the ballpark today. You don’t have to tell us who you are if you prefer to be anonymous. But we would greatly appreciate it if you can come out to the park again in five days.
Thank you,
Zvazda
Weaver pitched a shut-out, Sexson hit a home-run…
can I celebrate now?
Any word on Baek’s status? When healthy, shouldn’t he be considered to start over Ramirez? Certainly has more upside than Wells or Trachsel — at least in terms of control.
Wow, the Weaver Brothers so far today:
14 1/3 IP, 0 ER, 8 H, 0 BB, 12 K, 0 HR
Under 6! Under 6!
There’s a standard tree for who should catch any flyball. Technically, it applies in -ALL- situations, although practically its pretty straightforward.
Order:
Center Fielder
Corner Outfielder
Middle Infielder
Catcher
Corner Infielder
Pitcher
What that means is, in theory, Jones should have been able call off Beltre/Betancourt and catch the ball. For some reason or another, that didn’t happen. It seems like this a very typical rookie failing; additionally, we know Betancourt doesn’t speak English; I don’t know if Jones speaks Spanish, so he may or may not have been able to clearly call off Betancourt.
Give Jones more times with those guys, and that play will sort itself out.
Think Yuni’s been snatching balls from Ibanez all season, and Raul’s been letting him. Not surprising that there’s a mix-up with a new fielder (and one who’s a lot more mobile).
On a completely unrelated note, with the win today, Seattle now has the 4th best record in all of baseball.
I have a question. Why the consistent negative reactions by most everyone on hear against Raul when you is killing the ball lately. I would not have started him either given that he was going against a lefty but people still seem to be slammin his hitting and not just McLaren strategy. Where you guys this hard on his hitting last year? Coult it be possible that he has turned it around and could finish the year with 20 homers and 100 rbi’s, which by my count is not so bad?
You think he’s going to hit 9 more home runs when it’s taken him 110 games to get 11? I don’t think anyone is killing Ibanez per se, but I do think they are killing his playing left field. I think the general consensus is to move him to DH and bench Vidro.
318: Then you have to face the argument that Vidro has been on fire since the All Star break. Well, singles wise at least.
Fantantic game and I all I’m going to ask is where has THIS Jeff Weaver been hiding til now?
Solid offensive and D to help seal the deal and not to mention the whole nine including Weaver picking each up to uphold the shutout.
Today’s game is even more evidence that Jones should be in LF more and Ibanez in a DH/4thOFer duty.
Jones was very very solid in LF with the glove and caught several flyballs I furmly believe Ibanez would have missed.
I also say Jones would have caught that popup in the 9th had at least Betancourt back off and let Jones get under it.
Ibanez has to realize his days as a everyday LFer are over and he needs to adjust to being a DH,a 4thOFer/1stB backup,and LHB off the bench.
“Ibanez has to realize his days as a everyday LFer are over and he needs to adjust to being a DH,a 4thOFer/1stB backup,and LHB off the bench.”
Well, they should be over, but in reality he can look forward to being our starting left fielder until at least the end of the year in my opinion.
Looking ahead to September, the M’s will need to have a 4-5 wildcard lead or at least be tied with LAA to begin the month. Why you ask, well look at the September schedules for the contending teams (BOS, LAA, DET, NYY, SEA, CLE) What it boils down to is that the Red Sox and Yankees get to beat up on the East, while somehow the scheduling gurus probably figured SEA would be a cream puff team for the other contenders, instead Seattle has to play 4 of the 5 contending teams, ouch. Sorry for the casual fans who think this website is always pessimistic, but reality says that we have been in a playoff push for at least a month or more now, and every time we lost a game when AJ was in the minors or BB was on the pine, or HoRam was breathing, you just chalked that up to “you can’t win them all,” but you know ‘95 can always happen again and we can get a miracle, since that is what it will take to overcome the LAA, cause beating out the Yankees and Red Sox doesn’t look likely. Below is the breakdown against contending teams.
SEA
14 (Cle home, Det away, LAA away, NYY away)
CLE
11 (Sea away, Det home, LAA away)
LAA
8 (Sea home, Cle home)
NYY
6 (Bos away, Sea home)
DET
6 (Cle away, Sea home)
BOS
3 (NYY home)
314 – I am pretty sure Betancourt has had time to pick up the english phrases “I got it” and/or “mine.” I just don’t believe language is that much a barrier except in the pitcher/catcher/coach setting. It seems to me more likely that Betancourt got used to a much less mobile Ibanez.
As I just heard Peter Gammons say on ESPN Detroit now has 14 consecutive games against Cleveland and Detroit. It’ll be interesting to see where the Tigers are in two weeks.
I asked the question a few threads ago and somebody at Fox.com found their Sunday story line. How are the M’s winning? “When the game is tight, Seattle shines. The bullpen, anchored by J.J. Putz, is ridiculous, and the hitters transform in close-and-late situations.” http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7110738
Not breaking news but puts the M’s in contexts that make sense.
ryans
Are you by any chance studying business at Villanova?
Your grasp of spelling and grammar reminds me of someone who was posing hereabouts until a few days ago.
324–You mean Cleveland and NY.
Doh. Yes I do/did.
It’s a virtual lock that Bavasi’s job is safe. This is perhaps the most job security he has had since maybe his first year on the job. Will we see smart moves this off season or more of the desperation type moves that have characterized his last few seasons?
That said, what is the fate of McLaren? Is he clearly interim or is he auditioning for the permanent job? He’s auditioning for some managerial job so maybe it doesn’t matter for the rest of this season-he’s not going to go out on a limb. I’m having nightmare visions of Hargrove v2.0 sitting on the bench next season.
It’s a virtual lock that Bavasi’s job is safe.
Why? Sure the team looks good overall, but there are still 40 games left to go.
Clearly they’re willing in spite of Bavasi not because of him. There’s no way to look at Bavasi’s off-season and not call it a disaster. Weaver and Ramirez have had some nice games but both are over 5.50 ERA and I’d venture HoRam is the worst starting pitcher in the AL, Reitsma has been more valuable when on the DL than on the roster, and Ibanez was horrible for 4 months. Vidro seems OK to the casual observer though anyone with a clue has to question a less than 400 SLG from a designated hitter. He also chose NOT to move Sexson even when offered a living, breathing major league player in return. Batista is the only move that’s worked well.
Sadly McLaren will likely be judged by wins and losses and how far this team goes not his actual decision making. Fortunately the Mariners are 16-14 since he took over. They’ve “made up” ground in the Wild Card because Cleveland and Detroit have been under .500.
330 – don’t forget Guillen too. He has worked well for us.
316: With Arizona losing, it looks to me like the M’s have the *3rd* best record (though they’re actually in a virtual tie with NYY and Arizona).
Still. Wow. Who woulda thought?
330, 331,
The funny thing is that the strategy Bavasi had almost makes sense if you take out the player names involved:
1) Weaver = undervalued starter, 1 yr contract (if terrible regardless).
2) Guillen = undervalued player, injury concerns, good gamble.
3) Soriano –> Ramirez = Trading reliever for starter, who Bavasi presumably (if incorrectly) thought was good and/or undervalued. Groundballer (even if that doesn’t really matter when you’re as terrible as HoRam).
4) Snelling + Fruto –> Vidro = former star, potential to be undervalued and ready to bounce back (at least in Bavasi’s mind). Was in a horrible park for hitters (as he is now).
If Bavasi had sat down with the USS Mariner faithful in November and said:
“Look, here’s the offseason plan… I’m going to try to gamble on 1 year deals to sign an extra outfielder and starter that may have more left in the tank than people realize. It might be a little too much money, but it’s low risk because it’s only one year, and we have guys in the minors who can step in if they falter anyway. And I really think we need to turn a member of bullpen into a starter, because they’re so much more valuable than relievers. It’s a team strength, and we can find arms in our organization who can replace people that already have a major league reputation. [blah blah blah, something about needing a DH that we wouldn't have agreed with because Ibanez should have been our DH, which we all knew already].”
Honestly, until you realize that the starter is HoRam, that sounds great. I was skeptical about Weaver, but I honestly don’t dread his starts anymore, despite the fact that he actually had one of the worst Aprils of all time (I think). The ways he screwed this up really only amount to:
1) Undervaluing defense in LF and/or caving to organizational demands to name Ibanez as starting LFer.
2) Thinking HoRam might actually be kind of good.
3) Maybe failing to recognize that Soriano could have been converted to a starter.
For how agonizing I found those decisions at the time (and since, for the most part), it’s strange to take a step back and see how almost-logical they were. His bullpen construction has been smart and extremely effective. Our illustrious authors here are always saying that Bavasi’s Achilles heel is being unable to appropriately evaluate major league talent, and I think that’s really been borne out. Apart from thinking that HoRam could actually start in the American League, Ibanez could still play ML-level LF, and Vidro could actually hit enough to be an everyday DH, he’s been basically perfect. Those are huge flaws of course, but I think it’s interesting.
I don’t think you’re way off base, but I think his evaluation of HoRam is such a huge mistake that it’s inexcusable. You also left out the fact that it was easily demonstrable that a player who would perform as well or better than Vidro was available for essentially nothing. We gave up far too much for what he’s giving the team.
We essentially threw away one guy known to be a knockout reliever, one potentially good relief arm and a potential DH / OF for stuff that was easily had for free. That’s terrible and worthy of being shown the door.
While HoRam and Vidro have sucked, let’s not lose sight of the fact that:
1)Fruto has yet to see the majors this year
2) Soriano has started the second half poorly after being worked heavily
3) Doyle has been on the 60 day DL since May after putting up some fairly so-so numbers
All of those things were within the range of foreseeable circumstances in the off season.
Again, it still doesn’t excuse the Vidro extension or the insane sticking with HoRam but as darrylzero notes there was perhaps some method to the madness in terms of who we gave up and why,
I agree. HoRam needs to be demoted. Whether minors or bull pen. He is like this year’s Joel Pinerio (and am i glad we got rid of him).
Jeff Weaver is starting to look pretty good, fulfilling the 8 million they are throwing at him. (4-4 if you take away the starts before hitting the dl.)
Its good Vidro hits for average, but not in DH position. If Raul started the year as DH then he probably wouldn’t of have had as bad of a year, considering playing outfield causes more wear and tear to the body than DH.
335 is right, so far the guys we have traded away haven’t been playing to their potential either.
It seemed like Bavasi was signing proven veterans with histories of injuries or just sucking. Its like casting a movie full of washups and hoping that they become stars again. Fortunately Batista and Guillen have worked out, and Jeff Weaver isn’t so horrible since coming off the DL, that probably saved Bavasi’s behind.
Boy, we sure have never discussed the Vidro trade before.
337
You are correct! This is THE first time that I’ve ever seen Bavasi’s offseason moves rehashed on this blog.
The M’s have the third-best record in MLB. Yet they’re fighting for their lives in spite of themselves with an underqualified manager at the helm. It’s going to be an agonizing yet totally awesome seven weeks.
337 “Boy, we sure have never discussed the Vidro trade before.”
And surely, with 4+ months down the road and Bavasi’s job performance under review and the potential for his being back next year, it’s not unreasonable to review how things have gone so far with all the participants.
Gee, Doyle isn’t an MVP candidate, Soriano isn’t holding up well and Fruto can’t be seen with a telescope. I haven’t seen those developments see major discussion here at all.
Actually, the fact that there was freely available talent out there, that we wouldn’t have needed to give up ANY players to obtain, that could reasonably be expected to outperform Vidro and HoRam HAS been discussed on this site in great detail.
Snelling, Fruto, and Soriano still have upside to various degrees that we didn’t need to give up to get the level of performance we’ve gotten out of Vidro and HoRam.
They were both bad trades at the time, and they’re still bad trades.
Yeah, sorry to start all that again. I got a little tipsy and it all seemed interesting for a second. Anyway, I don’t disagree about the indefensible-ness of it, I was just interested that the effort (the extremely flawed effort) was kinda sorta in the direction we might have wanted in each case. We’d obviously be better without making those trades, I’m not disputing that.
Guys, McLaren and Bavasi are SYMPTOMS of what we complain about, not causes.
That mentality we complain about? It permeates the organization, top, bottom and middle. Wanna get rid of it? Well you gotta get rid of a majority of the organization…
(And the really stupid thing is that their approach DOES work…but it’s neither the most efficient or most optimal approach….and you’ll never get the most you can out of the personnel and conditions you have. THAT’S why a lot of people around here are dissatisfied–it’s like using Mo Morris for running back when you have a healthy Shaun Alexander on the bench).
Jay Buhner should bust into the clubhouse and remind the Mariners of what he said back in ‘95, “When you start thinking about a wild card, you’re selling yourself short. That’s setting your sights too low.”
If the Angels lost a few more games and the Mariners won at the same time…and if they could keep a lead through September…
Who’d thunk, ‘way back in April?